Support NeoGAF

[Dark Cloud]

That would leave them with little to no virtual console releases for the rest of the system's lifespan, so that ain't happening.

Yeah. That's a bad business decision

 

[ReyVGM]

I hope this thing launches with a fleshed out eshop. Like all first party NES, SNES, GB, GBA and N64 games available day one.

Unless you are able to access the current eshop on the new system, then expect titles to be released periodically again.

If you release everything at once, you don't sell as much as if you release them weekly.

 

[Oregano]

How much do you think a 32GB cart would cost? I see them on sale for 5-10 dollars online. But i dont know if a memory card is different from a game cartridge.

No idea. I imagine the game cartridge is cheaper for Nintendo because they're paying for a lot over the lifetime of the system.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Nice. I didn't know there were carts bigger than BR discs. I don't really use SD cards, so I'm not up to speed. But all this time I thought they mean GigaBITs for cards.

Keep in mind Carts like we intended in the NES and SNES era which were directly accessible by the cpu and gpu don't really exist anymore. Nowadays they're just another medium like BR, with their advantages and disadvantages over it (much better non-sequential read speeds but higher costs)

 

[Koren]

Wait, when people talk about Bluray disc sizes they are talking about GigaBYTEs, no?

Quite often, rather Gibibytes instead of Gigabytes, but the difference isn't that large.

And when talking about carts/sd cards, they mean GigaBITS, correct?

It's bytes for SD cards and other storage cards.

For carts, it depends, because historically, it was bits. Now, it can be both, but the rumored 32GB cart size is definitively Bytes. 3DS games like Xenoblade are already 4GB / 32Gb so it wouldn't make sense.

There aren't any carts actually bigger than a blueray disc, right?

Currently, no, but It's not impossible to do, even at reasonable cost...

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Unless you are able to access the current eshop on the new system, then expect titles to be released periodically again.

If you release everything at once, you don't sell as much as if you release them weekly.

Well they better have VC BC, or release 60 games at a time. No excuse for drip drop.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I wonder if Zelda BOTW takes a hit graphically in any particular area. Like poly count or effects.

 

[Tarin02543]

I don't want 50GB games on my NX.

 

[Thraktor]

"Supercharged while docked" doesn't really mean anything, as the speculation is simply about the chip being able to run at full speed in that situation opposed to a "handheld mode" that heavily downclocks it to save battery life and avoid overheating when you play on the go.

Still, we have 4 reports:

1) Tegra X1 being noisy in devkits would point to an overclocked chip that simulates the (better) performances of the final one
2) Osirisblack saying that the console has little to no issue in handling ports from current gen
3) LCGeek's comment about NX CPU>>>>Xbone CPU
4) Emily Rogers saying that the NX blows the Wii U out of the water, and that it's close to Xbox One (although that's a bit of a stretch, but if it wasn't somewhat close then i don't even see the point in mentioning the Microsoft console, just say that it's noticeably better than the Wii U but still far from the current gen consoles)

All of these point to a console at least over 6-700gflops, while Gaf's speculation is about NX being barely above Wii U or on par/worst but with a 540p screen, which directly contradicts all of them. But those specs are impossible to achieve on a handheld, and that's why i keep saying that there must be something going on with the dock, imho it's the only way that all these reports can fit together.

It's only speculation from my part and i'm open to being wrong, but i really don't see the point in even mentioning the dock if it doesn't do anything (e.g. if it's like the 3DS one, where you simply put the console on it to charge it). It would just a portable with a TV out and a dock put in the pack for convenience.

You're talking about "full speed when docked", but the "full" clock speed of a CPU or GPU is inextricably linked to the power and thermal environment it's expected to operate in. A Pascal-based Tegra chip should be able to hit a stable 1.7GHz GPU clock with sufficient cooling and power delivery, but you're going to need one hell of a cooling system to dissipate all that heat.

As I see it we're looking at three different possible scenarios for how the system acts while docked:

1. Clock speeds stay exactly the same, meaning games run identically whether handheld or docked
2. Clocks increase, but the system is still passively cooled. This means an increase from about 2W to maybe about 5W, which might be enough to bump GPU clocks up by the ~75% necessary to run games at 720p (as opposed to 540p on the handheld)
3. Clocks increase, and the system is actively cooled in docked mode. In theory, this could allow them to be genuinely competitive with XBO or even PS4 in performance, but I've yet to be convinced that external active cooling is actually feasible. That 20+W of heat has to be transferred out of the system somehow, and if it's transferred out through the handheld's surface, then that surface is going to get very hot to the touch.

If you expect performance that can only be achieved at 10W+, then you'll have to explain how you expect that heat to be dissipated while in docked mode.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I wonder if Zelda BOTW takes a hit graphically in any particular area. Like poly count or effects.

Apparently these chips better than Wii U. So to speak.. I dont know nothing

 

[brainchild]

I wonder if Zelda BOTW takes a hit graphically in any particular area. Like poly count or effects.

Graphical hit on a more powerful system? Nonsense.

It's not like BOTW is merely being ported to the NX. It's a multiplatform game that's being developed for both the Wii U and the NX simultaneously but independently.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Didn't Wii U take a last minute, massive hit in performance before launch? I don't see this thing blowing the shield out of the water.

 

[Rodin]

You're talking about "full speed when docked", but the "full" clock speed of a CPU or GPU is inextricably linked to the power and thermal environment it's expected to operate in. A Pascal-based Tegra chip should be able to hit a stable 1.7GHz GPU clock with sufficient cooling and power delivery, but you're going to need one hell of a cooling system to dissipate all that heat.

As I see it we're looking at three different possible scenarios for how the system acts while docked:

1. Clock speeds stay exactly the same, meaning games run identically whether handheld or docked
2. Clocks increase, but the system is still passively cooled. This means an increase from about 2W to maybe about 5W, which might be enough to bump GPU clocks up by the ~75% necessary to run games at 720p (as opposed to 540p on the handheld)
3. Clocks increase, and the system is actively cooled in docked mode. In theory, this could allow them to be genuinely competitive with XBO or even PS4 in performance, but I've yet to be convinced that external active cooling is actually feasible. That 20+W of heat has to be transferred out of the system somehow, and if it's transferred out through the handheld's surface, then that surface is going to get very hot to the touch.

If you expect performance that can only be achieved at 10W+, then you'll have to explain how you expect that heat to be dissipated while in docked mode.

I see your point, but i still don't understand how those reports could be true if there is no way to dissipate the heat generated from a 10W+ device.

Didn't Wii U take a last minute, massive hit in performance before launch? I don't see this thing blowing the shield out of the water.

No, CPU/GPU clockspeeds were increased (1GHZ/400MHZ-->1.24GHZ/550MHZ) and that's it.

 

[Vena]

http://huethegame.com/

Not exactly a technical showpiece.

From the looks of it, this game uses almost entirely hand-drawn, unique assets that from the looks of it are generally HD. These things are generally huge memory hogs unless they are generated from some palette sets (which this doesn't look to be the case). Depending on how smart the palette is, this would in and of itself also take up a huge pool of memory.

All we know from this is that the NX has a limited capacity of vRAM/RAM for a very RAM hungry product that is, also, not being used in the most efficient way possible given the question and answers he got on twitter.

 

[Fourth Storm]

You're talking about "full speed when docked", but the "full" clock speed of a CPU or GPU is inextricably linked to the power and thermal environment it's expected to operate in. A Pascal-based Tegra chip should be able to hit a stable 1.7GHz GPU clock with sufficient cooling and power delivery, but you're going to need one hell of a cooling system to dissipate all that heat.

As I see it we're looking at three different possible scenarios for how the system acts while docked:

1. Clock speeds stay exactly the same, meaning games run identically whether handheld or docked
2. Clocks increase, but the system is still passively cooled. This means an increase from about 2W to maybe about 5W, which might be enough to bump GPU clocks up by the ~75% necessary to run games at 720p (as opposed to 540p on the handheld)
3. Clocks increase, and the system is actively cooled in docked mode. In theory, this could allow them to be genuinely competitive with XBO or even PS4 in performance, but I've yet to be convinced that external active cooling is actually feasible. That 20+W of heat has to be transferred out of the system somehow, and if it's transferred out through the handheld's surface, then that surface is going to get very hot to the touch.

If you expect performance that can only be achieved at 10W+, then you'll have to explain how you expect that heat to be dissipated while in docked mode.

What about having vents and a fan in the handheld itself, but they only activate during docked mode? I've noticed the Shield and Shield tablets employ active cooling. The obvious disadvantage here is another moving part and point of failure. Is it that common for fans to fail in laptops?

 

[Graphics Horse]

I don't know why anyone is putting any faith in a actively cooled 'docked mode' tbh, the console mode in the Shield handheld relies on the screen being powered off, that's all.

 

[James Scott]

I don't know why anyone is putting any faith in a actively cooled 'docked mode' tbh, the console mode in the Shield handheld relies on the screen being powered off, that's all.

Would be strange to include a dock if all it did was TV-out, though. It's probably a farfetched dream to expect Xbox One->PS4 levels when docked, but at least improving CPU clock speeds since those are usually underclocked for battery consumption

 

[Milly Osworth]

Are we expecting any more leaks or does the official unveil waiting game start again?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Would be strange to include a dock if all it did was TV-out, though. It's probably a farfetched dream to expect Xbox One->PS4 levels when docked, but at least improving CPU clock speeds since those are usually underclocked for battery consumption

The dock could do a bunch of things with a sub raspberry pi chip, like wireless receiving of a compressed image for touch screen gameplay ±TV, charging, and access to backup downloads to prevent redownloading huge files, for example. I'm not going to go down the path of thinking it must supply active cooling.

 

[Rösti]

I made a simple timetable of when new information may emerge. It can perhaps be useful:

Let me know if more events can be added.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I don't know why anyone is putting any faith in a actively cooled 'docked mode' tbh, the console mode in the Shield handheld relies on the screen being powered off, that's all.

If they're going with 540p/1080p modes (for Nintendo games and graphically undemanding 3rd party and indie games), then it will take additional GPU performance to render the image in the higher resolution. Of course, Nintendo may settle on 720p for console mode. Or maybe the handheld has enough beef to render simple games in 1080p without active cooling and it's simply a matter of screen cost and battery life in HH mode. Considering what Nintendo pulled off with Wii U, it just might be possible with a 400 GFLOPS handheld.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Somebody needs to wake up Rosti, because Nintendo may have just filed the NX patent. I'm still looking into it but... This just got real.

Edit: Nevermind, it's an old patent.

 

[Neoxon]

Somebody needs to wake up Rosti, because Nintendo may have just filed the NX patent. I'm still looking into it but... This just got real.

He just posted in this thread a few minutes ago.

 

[Mpl90]

Are we expecting any more leaks or does the official unveil waiting game start again?

Well, we have this from Emily Rogers

Emily Rogers
‏@ArcadeGirl64
And by gimmick, I'm talking more about NX's form factor. So anyways, keep an eye out for reports coming this week, and the following weeks.

Emily Rogers ‏@ArcadeGirl64 28 lug
@Matbtz The last two days have been reports from Eurogamer, MCV, and Wall Street Journal. I'm sure we'll see more soon.

We'll have to wait and see if and when new reports will appear.

EDIT: Sorry I forgot about her account being private, my mistake

 

[Rösti]

Somebody needs to wake up Rosti, because Nintendo may have just filed the NX patent. I'm still looking into it but... This just got real.

Edit: Nevermind, it's an old patent.

I check patent filings every day. There's one published on 28 July that deals with a rumble device, but maybe there's something I have missed. Feel free to send me a PM.

Edit: Ah, I see.

 

[Vena]

Well, we have this from Emily Rogers

https://twitter.com/ArcadeGirl64/status/757674848797601792

We'll have to wait and see if and when new reports will appear.

No one can read that, lol.

 

[Shiggy]

Well, we have this from Emily Rogers

https://twitter.com/ArcadeGirl64/status/757674848797601792

We'll have to wait and see if and when new reports will appear.

That is a private account, post the tweet instead of just posting a link.

 

[MuchoMalo]

He just posted in this thread a few minutes ago.

I just noticed that. Anyway, here's the page to the patent: https://worldwide.espacenet.com/pub...B=&locale=en_EP&CC=HK&NR=1171403A1&KC=A1&ND=4

I saw this on another forum, and one of the images is apparently a screen with detachable half-controllers.

 

[diaspora]

Well, we have this from Emily Rogers

https://twitter.com/ArcadeGirl64/status/757674848797601792

We'll have to wait and see if and when new reports will appear.

her account is private, so you know most people can't read that

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Somebody needs to wake up Rosti, because Nintendo may have just filed the NX patent. I'm still looking into it but... This just got real.

Edit: Nevermind, it's an old patent.

I should choke you lol

 

[Neoxon]

That is a private account, post the tweet instead of just posting a link.

her account is private, so you know most people can't read that

 

[MuchoMalo]

That is a private account, post the tweet instead of just posting a link.

When I say NX sounds expensive, I mean the gimmick sounds expensive. I stand by my report that this thing is closer to XB1 specs.

And by gimmick, I'm talking more about NX's form factor. So anyways, keep an eye out for reports coming this week, and the following weeks.

Note that this was the day before the Eurogamer article.

 

[Eolz]

I made a simple timetable of when new information may emerge. It can perhaps be useful:

Let me know if more events can be added.

Can't see anything happening for the first four events, but super cool chart!

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I made a simple timetable of when new information may emerge. It can perhaps be useful:

Let me know if more events can be added.

October.....



........

 

[MuchoMalo]

i r dum

 

[BY2K]

Every time someone tells me I'm too big of a Nintendo fanboy, I show them this thread.

 

[Herb Alpert]

Every time someone tells me I'm too big of a Nintendo fanboy, I show them this thread.

Yet people are far more reasonable than during the heroic times of the WUSTs.

 

[MuchoMalo]

I check patent filings every day. There's one published on 28 July that deals with a rumble device, but maybe there's something I have missed. Feel free to send me a PM.

Edit: Ah, I see.

I think I've been tricked, so yeah...

 

[Eolz]

Well, when this is apparently one of the images, can you blame me?

I can't find evidence that this is actually in the patent, though.

If this was real, I'd actually find that a good layout. Way better than the mockups seen in other threads.

 

[Oregano]

Well, when this is apparently one of the images, can you blame me?

I can't find evidence that this is actually in the patent, though.

Oh damn, I know it's just an (old?) patent diagram but that looks a pretty comfy setup. I think the controls are too close for it to be used like a NES Pad and it looks like they're connected at the back.

 

[BY2K]

Yet people are far more reasonable than during the heroic times of the WUSTs.

I don't think heroic means what you think it means, here.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Well, when this is apparently one of the images, can you blame me?

I can't find evidence that this is actually in the patent, though.

This looks like a single controller, not two, as i supposed. Button and circle pad are way too close to be usable as a standalone.

 

[Graphics Horse]

That appears to be from bigben interactive or something
https://google.com/patents/EP2923745A1?cl=ko

 

[MuchoMalo]

That appears to be from bigben interactive or something
https://google.com/patents/EP2923745A1?cl=ko

Alright, nothing to see here. It's just a tablet accessory.

 

[Oregano]

That appears to be from bigben interactive or something
https://google.com/patents/EP2923745A1?cl=ko

You are correct. Quick search on their site:

 

[GhostTrick]

Well, when this is apparently one of the images, can you blame me?

I can't find evidence that this is actually in the patent, though.

This is not from Nintendo but from Big Ben:

 

[Oddduck]

Man, Trevelyan9999 is really tripling down on this.

Well in the last 6 months 3 rumors from people with developer contacts said the NX is more powerful than PS4.

https://twitter.com/SMetaldave64/status/759803617163354112

 

[G.ZZZ]

Yeah i still have to see a mockup that make for some realistic double detachable controllers. Until now i only saw ones that were way too small to be used as standalones.

Man, Trevelyan9999 is really tripling down on this.



https://twitter.com/SMetaldave64/status/759803617163354112

Dude is so gone.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Yet people are far more reasonable than during the heroic times of the WUSTs.

To be fair, the initial reports on Wii U were pretty misleading, claiming Nintendo were aiming to "win back the hardcore". Then, IGN reported that the GPU was roughly comparable to the Radeon HD 4850. The rest, as they say, is history.

 

[blue_phazon]

Man, Trevelyan9999 is really tripling down on this.



https://twitter.com/SMetaldave64/status/759803617163354112

lol what a joke