Sony's first party games are really gonna dazzle with this I think, its going to be a big priority
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Patrick Klepek: Sony possibly looking at increasing Neo specs due to Scorpio
- Thread starter Obliterator
- Start date
Sony's first party games are really gonna dazzle with this I think, its going to be a big priority
People assumed that it's too weak to do 4K because the GPU is 4.2TF without knowing much else about the console or if it has hardware changes that can help it with higher resolutions & so on. People want it to be more powerful without even knowing how well the games look on the console to begin with.
MilkyJoe
Member
The console will be fine, aren't they doing the checkerboard thing? Its neither here more there, both consoles will mostly see 1080/1400 with all the bells and whistles over 4K anyway.
StereoVsn
Member
I am talking about Scorpio which is over a year away.
Edit: For PS4 it will have to be Jaguar. They may be able to OC further it if it goes to 14nm and it may have minor modifications, who knows.
I'd like to just have some limited graphics settings. 1) a High Res mode (4K) 2) high fidelity mode (1080p with enhanced visuals)
BRocknRolla
Member
I'd guess there's next to no chance of this. Would require devs to optimize yet another version of the game when they'll already have PS4 and PS4k. It'll be one or the other for the PS4k version.
What would be the benefit of 1400? TVs aren't built to support that res which is what the consoles will have in mind. Unless you're suggesting some type of downsampling, but that seems like a bit of a waste of power.
I dunno, devs that make PC games already have the 4K textures, and the familiarity with scaling down effects for multiple hardware configurations. As console development continues to converge with PC development I think we'll see more options. We'll see
BRocknRolla
Member
They certainly could do this. However, given the general approach to console gaming thus far (A plug-and-play sort of idea), I highly doubt most developers want to implement those same type of options in a console game. As you say though, we'll see. I have my doubts that PC and console gaming will ever completely converge, and this would be one of those areas of difference.
I'd like to see options like that sit at the system level, and then each game have settings for either the Mode A or Mode B depending on which it's set to. With a fixed specs, something like that would be more feasible than it is on PC.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Not that much, I suppose, not without a severe impact on Neo's price tag.
The reason that these consoles will exist is because of 4K it's not because they want you to have a better looking 1080P game.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I know you are.
Unless those Zen's come down in power draw and size for the 8 core... I do not see it possible in the APU solutions they want.
Zen is currently a desktop solution. But we shall see.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yes. PS4 GPU is 1.84 Tflops. 2x 1.84= 3.68. It's a roughly 2.3x performance increase.
lol wtf. if a normal ps4 can do U4now imagine 4,2 tf system
bigboss370
Member
correct me if i'm wrong, but i think GopherD may be referring to the "due to Scorpio" part, not the "Sony possibly looking at increasing Neo specs" part
MilkyJoe
Member
They don't exist because of 4K....
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Judging by the rumored two different power specs they were supposedly deciding on, which we heard before Scorpio was announced as a thing... I think this is correct.
Yes, companies are always watching and adapting to the competition, but not in the fun forum war ways these headlines propose in their wording, lol.
to be totally fair, no one can really say why they exist yet until Sony and Microsoft fully lay out all their cards on the table. neither of them have yet
BRocknRolla
Member
We'll have to wait and see what kind of direction devs actually go with it. It may well be that only those with a 4k TV are going to see real benefits to the new systems.
Theonik
Member
It could do U4 with better IQ in MP and with better shadows at the very least!
Were all just angry squabbling cogs in a much bigger machine
I think Neo's sole purpose is just PS4, but better, the games you know, the games you're looking forward to but better framerates and better resolution
Scorpio has a lot of ? around it though, its a better Xbox One that's for sure but that doesn't seem to be all there is, 4K seems to be the big "wow look how powerful it is" marketing trophy for it, but I don't think that'll be the only thing happening, nor do I think is it going to be marketed as a "better xbox one"
THE:MILKMAN
Member
My own interpretation of GopherD's post is that it was a general comment about all the speculation in the Periscope video. If it was a comment about a specific part, I think GopherD would have made that clear?
You new to GAF? How often does anyone make these "hints" clear?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
well, devs arent going to create a different renderer or engine for this new console. they will likely just increase the resolution, fps, aa, af and stuff you usually see in PC ports. the game will largely look the same.
at best, you will see better character models but even then we rarely see them in PC ports of console games. Witcher 3, current gen AC games and other multiplats use the same character models.
In U4's case, they will likely use that 2.3x power to bring the SP upto 60 fps and add in some higher quality shadows. the lighting, character models, and foliage will remain the same.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Hints? He made a very short comment that to me applies to the discussion in the Periscope video in the OP as that is the subject of this thread.
Been on GAF over 10 years....
Omnistalgic
Member
Complete conjecture, but with Sony in the lead, and a fanbase that isn't rabidly screaming for better hardware, I'd say logically, the main reason behind Neo is to improve the VR experience and increase the longevity of this generation. I think this is also what Osiris thought with the original info. Horizon looks amazing today, but in 2018-2019, PC's showpiece games may make it look outdated. So, here's a boosted up PS4 so PC upgrades don't completely squat on console games graphically for the next 3-4 years and it will be the preferred way to VR game, which Sony think will be a big deal. Benefits outside of those two I think are added bonuses.
- More users staying in the ecosystem
- Publishers making new money off updated software
- New Promotions for additional features on current/new software
- Enthusiast flocking out for the newer hardware and spending lots of money
- Furthering the lead over the competition with a strong head start and exclusive Holiday
- More users staying in the ecosystem
- Publishers making new money off updated software
- New Promotions for additional features on current/new software
- Enthusiast flocking out for the newer hardware and spending lots of money
- Furthering the lead over the competition with a strong head start and exclusive Holiday
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I interpreted it as him saying it was rubbish that any potential changes Sony made were in reaction to Scorpio. He hasn't said on word on this topic of specs since it started months ago. Why now? I think it clearly aimed at the reasoning and not idea altogether.
Phil Spencer came out & said they looked at what was needed for 4K & that's why they waited for 2017 so that they can have a console that will be able to give them 4K & the Neo papers talk about using checkerboard rendering & other rendering tech for getting ~ 4K render output.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I still think this 4k push is too soon for hardware either console will have. Give me games pushed to the max at a lower resolution than "4K" versions of the same thing we have right now.
I was just playing around... but yea, I mean we're like 700 posts past his post now, with people still theorizing if he meant the entire thing, or just it being a response to Scorpio, or whatever... and it's like this all the time here. A two word post becomes multiple days of discussing what it meant, whether it contradicts the two word post of another insider, etc... and we're always left to just marinate in it.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Well thank god for that. I deliberately decided to not get hyped over these new consoles and take the logical and common sense approach. I feel like I'm the one talking crazy!
I say what if Sony just add a port so you can do crossfire with 2 Neo... that will give it more theoratical power than a single scorpio and release what they have atm. They recommanded develoeprs to go 2X180p checker board style rendering for 4k, now they can get each neo to do 2x1080p to render full native 4K if people are willing to pay the price for it. I know crossfire doesn't mean 2X the power or 200% efficient but just a thought...
RetroPlayer
Banned
It does look like Scorpio is not needed at this point in the cycle.
Microsoft have the cash to turn out Sony's lights however, so, is that what they are trying to do??
Imagine a Microsoft only console world. :?
Microsoft have the cash to turn out Sony's lights however, so, is that what they are trying to do??
Imagine a Microsoft only console world. :?
vpance
Member
Can we get a follow up to that screenplay with the 3 colleagues?
boredandlazy
Member
That fabled infinite warchest....
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I needed a laugh. Thanks.
Why didn't they use that cash in 2013 to make a powerful console and sell it for $400?
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Jeez dude.
Both Sony and MS will be fine. I am fairly positive that Sony will remain the market leader, probably get even more sales with a headstart of almost a year (if it's releasing this year) and that's quite something. Scorpio is definitely needed, i for one am a big Xbox player, i prefer Microsoft's consoles and i really want games to look and perform better than they are now. Talking about both exclusives and third parties. I know i am not the only one. All four consoles next year will coexist and all will be fine.
2013 MS is quite different from today's MS. They made mistakes and they clearly acknowledged that.
As the Windows Phone platform versus android/ios strategy shows.
Windows Phone strategy failed literally because of apps and them coming too late with their new OS and not updating it with features the other competitors had. Totally not comparable at all.
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People still going on why these companies don't need to do this? This is going to be a fun year. *sigh*
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Gotta admit, I'm still a bit puzzled by how Scorpio fits in with the whole Xbox Anywhere thing. I mean, they are effectively going to be offering 2 ways to enjoy a "high-end" experience, one via PC the other using a likely moderately expensive bespoke box.
It just seems to me that the way that NEO will at least offer the only "better than PS4" experience for Sony's first-party titles establishes a stronger USP than what MS will get from Scorpio simply being more powerful.
While I appreciate the software ecosystem/user engagement metrics aren't device dependent, so a sale on PC is notionally as good as on Xbone or Scorpio, I'm just doubtful that its the best way to launch a piece of hardware that's probably not going to be cheap!
This is really important as notionally Scorpio represents a way for MS to improve the fortunes of the Xbox brand versus Sony's Playstation. The problem they have is that this isn't a flat-start like a traditional generational shift, its all accumulative to both companies existing product lines and user-bases.
Given that I don't believe MS has ever shifted more than 14m consoles in a year, they really do need a massive momentum boost if they want to catch Sony in anything like a timely fashion. I really don't see just a "more powerful box" doing that much for them, and by the same token give Sony too many sleepless nights figuring out how to combat it.
It just seems to me that the way that NEO will at least offer the only "better than PS4" experience for Sony's first-party titles establishes a stronger USP than what MS will get from Scorpio simply being more powerful.
While I appreciate the software ecosystem/user engagement metrics aren't device dependent, so a sale on PC is notionally as good as on Xbone or Scorpio, I'm just doubtful that its the best way to launch a piece of hardware that's probably not going to be cheap!
This is really important as notionally Scorpio represents a way for MS to improve the fortunes of the Xbox brand versus Sony's Playstation. The problem they have is that this isn't a flat-start like a traditional generational shift, its all accumulative to both companies existing product lines and user-bases.
Given that I don't believe MS has ever shifted more than 14m consoles in a year, they really do need a massive momentum boost if they want to catch Sony in anything like a timely fashion. I really don't see just a "more powerful box" doing that much for them, and by the same token give Sony too many sleepless nights figuring out how to combat it.
I found a solution if they REALLY want to have a hardware to compete with Scorpio:
- Release the PS4 Neo this year as they planned, but named it PS4 Slim. 4K capability, slimmer (if they can), sleeker (if they can), better DualShock and keep the rumoured 4.2 TFLOPS. Basically, a .5 version of PS4. The iPhone 4S of the iPhone 4. Price it at $399.
- OG PS4 price goes to $249.
- Holiday 2017, another PS4 now aimed to the hardcore: PS4K. 4K gaming. 6-7 TFLOPS. $599.
The 3 share the same library, but with different performances and graphics of course. Basically 3 SKUs, one for each kind of gamer.
The casual consumer: you are out of money and just want to play the new God of War or The Last of Us 2, well just buy the OG one at $299 and enjoy all the hot releases.
The cost-benefit consumer: you value the balance between price and performance. You will be satisfied with the machine that can play the games better and at reasonable price. You buy the PS4 Slim.
The hardcore one: you want the best experience on a console and you can afford it, then go for it, PS4K.
- Release the PS4 Neo this year as they planned, but named it PS4 Slim. 4K capability, slimmer (if they can), sleeker (if they can), better DualShock and keep the rumoured 4.2 TFLOPS. Basically, a .5 version of PS4. The iPhone 4S of the iPhone 4. Price it at $399.
- OG PS4 price goes to $249.
- Holiday 2017, another PS4 now aimed to the hardcore: PS4K. 4K gaming. 6-7 TFLOPS. $599.
The 3 share the same library, but with different performances and graphics of course. Basically 3 SKUs, one for each kind of gamer.
The casual consumer: you are out of money and just want to play the new God of War or The Last of Us 2, well just buy the OG one at $299 and enjoy all the hot releases.
The cost-benefit consumer: you value the balance between price and performance. You will be satisfied with the machine that can play the games better and at reasonable price. You buy the PS4 Slim.
The hardcore one: you want the best experience on a console and you can afford it, then go for it, PS4K.
AgentChris
Member
I like this a lot.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Now THIS would be a great way to ruin absolutely all goodwill in your brand.
Colonel Nasty
Member
Yes, screw over people that buy Neo this year. That's the ticket. Even another model in two years seems soon. 3 years might even be too soon if they want to move on from the OG PS4 baseline.
probably the worst idea since $599 PS3
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