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[Dreams-Visions]

NMS has lots of things Elite doesn't have though, it's not just a direct comparison.

And Elite has a ton of things NMS doesn't have. It's as good a comparison as you're going to get.

Bottom line here is that ambitious procedurally generated universe games have been done before and multiplayer can very much be a thing. It was somewhat expected in some capacity here and it didn't show up in any way. That's what this is about. Touting the ambitiousness of the project does not excuse poor communication about the absence of a very impactful feature.

 

[gossi]

He also mentions the servers being an issue. I notice people keep ignoring that.

When the servers are up (and you can tell even in game as it tells you in the options menu) absolutely 0 packets are sent when you fly or walk around. It's going to be easier for more people to do packet capture of PC so expect more people to notice, but if you have a PS4 plug it into a box running Wireshark and start dumping the data. There's no netcode for 'pal around with friends'.

 

[Bedlam]

So he says it's incredibly rare? Maybe you guys should have not glossed over that.

There is a huge difference between "theoretically possible but incredibly rare" and "the functionality is not in the game".

Right now, the devs are still giving the impression that the first is the case when it isn't. That's deceit.

In the marketing leading up to this game with various interviews on talk shows and whatnot, the devs created this expectation that actually meeting someone would be the holy grail in this game because it is so incredibly rare. Now we find out the functionality of this possibly happening doesn't exist at all.

 

[THEaaron]

There is a huge difference between "theoretically possible but incredibly rare" and "the functionality is not in the game".

Right now, the devs are still giving the impression that the first is the case when it isn't. That's deceit.

You are just the other side of the medal. Just saying it isn't there when there is no real proof at all.

̄ \_(&#12484_/ ̄

 

[BudokaiMR2]

What the hell are you guys (and some others) talking about with expectations being set too high? The expectations were set by Murray himself in various interviews during which he clearly stated players would be able to meet and see each other. This is solely on the devs (intentional misinformation).


The box isn't the be all and end all. Interviews are just as much part of the marketing.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't all there when he tweeted that? Nope. This is intentional misinformation.

In general I just don't engage in pre-release hype for most titles. There is always going to be misinformation or cut content down the line.

My own expectations were from my experience in game production and with similar games in the genre. It just never seemed feasible for NMS to pull off all the current features along with seamless multi-player. One of the reasons I got invested in Elite Dangerous is because they have a very clear road map and seem to know better than getting in over their heads with feature creep.

I won't fault anyone for being angry about being misled, especially with the evidence being presented. I was just relating my own personal expectations.

 

[hodgy100]

https://www.vg247.com/2014/12/11/you-wont-be-playing-no-mans-sky-with-your-friends/

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...ng-of-no-man-s-sky-as-a-multiplayer-game.aspx

2014

 

[deoee]

When the servers are up (and you can tell even in game as it tells you in the options menu) absolutely 0 packets are sent when you fly or walk around. It's going to be easier for more people to do packet capture of PC so expect more people to notice, but if you have a PS4 plug it into a box running Wireshark and start dumping the data. There's no netcode for 'pal around with friends'.

But it's only one guy who said this plus I didn't even see any proof (I'm on mobile, maybe I missed it)... So I dunno - wouldn't trust a random person in a forum that easily

 

[Papercuts]

They did try: "To be super clear - No Man's Sky is not a multiplayer game. Please don't go in looking for that experience."

I mean, I don't know how to be more clear than that.

I do think Sean fucked up by tweeting about two players "meeting" last night, however, when the point was they didn't. But I gather he hasn't slept in a week, so.

This gets followed up by super confusing stuff like "pretty much zero" which is VERY different from actually not being possible. The way you interpret what he keeps saying can go all over the place when the question can be answered with a yes or a no.

 

[blackjaw]

It's entertaining watching this be the hill people choose to climb and die on

 

[ISee]

You are just the other side of the medal. Just saying it isn't there when there is no real proof at all.

̄ \_(&#12484_/ ̄

No real proof like two people standing at the same spot, on the same planet, in the same system and not seeing each other.
But yeah I know 'server issues'.

 

[Stranya]

Surely it's not difficult to understand why many people were excited about the concept of a near-infinite, shared game universe in which there are millions of other players (spending on sales!) each exploring and making their way to the centre of the universe.

Some of the arguments here are overly semantic. I don't think anyone expected it to have conventional multiplayer. What people did expect was that it was possible, though very unlikely, that you could run into fellow explorers. The concept of this shared universe (as above) is, to many, a lot more appealing than one in which the only shared aspect is the naming of planets and animals etc.

Blaming customers for raised expectations is silly. Sean Murray has said expressly that you can run into other players, can interact with them in some unspecified manner (the "grief" comment). His other statements about it being incredibly unlikely that you'll run into others are not inconsistent with this, and that the only way you can find out what you look like is to meet someone else. Finally, his most recent tweet before launch (about this not being a multiplayer experience) is also not inconsistent with this; one reasonable interpretation of that tweet is that he doesn't want people thinking that they're getting a multiplayer-focused game, which is fair enough.

It is reasonable for his customers to now expect some clarity on this issue.

 

[TheSpoiler]

At this point, it's a useless back and forth.

I guess I'll return on Friday and see what's up. I really hope the feature they promised is in the game at some level, because while it's not a game-breaker, it would definitely be cool.

 

[spineduke]

Because one single dude just made a statement about packet sniffing everything goes real?

I am skeptical that you can just read out every data they send. Normally those packages are encrypted and you can't read shit out of them.

The guy mentioned the program he used, why don't you try it for yourself? Reading packets isn't difficult. And no, packets are not usually encrypted, not unless it's specifically demanded for. In the case of online gaming, its never the case.

 

[SomTervo]

"To be super clear - No Man's Sky is not a multiplayer game. Please don't go in looking for that experience." - Sean Murray. https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/762688708764135425

But that's in the same way as Journey isn't a "multiplayer game". There's a difference between saying 'It has simple instanced multi-player interactions" (which Sean has said) and saying "Is a multiplayer game".

Why not say "Contrary to previous statements, No Man's Sky has no multiplayer function"?

 

[perineumlick]

Fine then I blame people for throwing their money at a game that had unreal hype and expectations since day 1.

But I have to blame people because look how outraged some of the people are getting in here, on GAF, we are supposed to be against this behavior no?

The only people I see getting outraged are the people like you chastising others for not ignoring the comments of the developer himself, but rather just read the box of the game, which is silly in of itself. The people calling a spade a spade come off as more rational than the defenders who would rather blame people's expectations than criticize a developer's misleading statements.

 

[Kinyou]

Wow just went theough seans most recent twitter posts and responses...seems like hes intentionally ignoring the majority of people tweeting to him.

from Reddit

Players: So why can't we see other players in game?
Sean: Wow theres so many of you playing!
Players: Yeah Sean, but wh-
Sean: Amazing! staring into space in amazement

 

[Zomba13]

This whole controversy is kinda hilarious. It would be SO EASY to clear it up with a yes or no answer but apparently being super vague about everything even after the game is out is the way they're going.

Like...if it's a server thing just say so. If it isn't in the game at all, people are going to figure that out. The latest info about the movement data is really damning.

It's working though. You've got people absolutely certain that Sean Murray never ever ever said anything about Multiplayer until that tweet from the day of release.

 

[gossi]

But it's only one guy who said this plus I didn't even see any proof (I'm on mobile, maybe I missed it)... So I dunno - wouldn't trust a random person in a forum that easily

That person is me. I'm at work, if I have time I'll publish either the .pcapng files or some a blog post analysis (I'm a cybersecurity architect, and write about it). However I don't want people using it to hate mob Sean and colleagues, and personally I think it's a great game and none of this matters. The reaction scares me.

 

[THEaaron]

No real proof like two people standing at the same spot, on the same planet, in the same system and not seeing each other.
But yeah I know 'server issues'.

Can you rule that out for 100%? I don't think so.

People should really try to be more sane and not start shitting around with so little information going around. Hence the fact that one of those dudes had NAT problems but if you're riding your confirmation bias train things like that are ignored easily.

It is just unclear at that point. For both possibilities.

 

[ClosingADoor]

https://www.vg247.com/2014/12/11/you-wont-be-playing-no-mans-sky-with-your-friends/

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...ng-of-no-man-s-sky-as-a-multiplayer-game.aspx

2014

From that article.

“People keep saying to us, ‘Yeah, but what if I knew where they were? Would I go there?’ And it’s like, yeah, but they are going to have to stay there for quite a while while you get over there. And then once you get over there you might land on the same planet and then you will say, ‘I’m on a planet the size of Earth and I am on a mountain. Where are you?’ Which is, I know, a weird thing and it’s a daunting thing.”

“We’re not trying to make an MMO where you can play with literally 60,000 people on screen. We handle the case like where other people can fly past in your game or that you can bump into other players in the game.”

“We keep talking about Jack’s dad from Lost, basically just to see them in the distance. Like, ‘Did I? What?'” Murray said.

Two years is a long time, things change. But he has repeated the possibility multiple times. And is not clearing it up now, which is a major problem. This is why developers need PR people I guess.

 

[spineduke]

Why not say "Contrary to previous statements, No Man's Sky has no multiplayer function"?

But it has multiplayer planet name sharing!

 

[SomTervo]

At this point, it's a useless back and forth.

I guess I'll return on Friday and see what's up. I really hope the feature they promised is in the game at some level, because while it's not a game-breaker, it would definitely be cool.

Yeah, until someone definitely finds out or Sean makes an even clearer statement, we're going around in circles.

The game is phenomenal by the way. Absolutely phenomenal. And we don't know for sure if seeing other players is actually in or out, so I wouldn't say return the game just yet.

Unless you meant 'return to this thread', in which case, please do!

But it has multiplayer planet name sharing!

Dat MP

 

[Kikorin]

I don't understand why they can't simply say "it's not possible".

I don't think someone would have been disappointed if they said this from the start.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

https://www.vg247.com/2014/12/11/you-wont-be-playing-no-mans-sky-with-your-friends/

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...ng-of-no-man-s-sky-as-a-multiplayer-game.aspx

2014

Ouch.

Like I said, there's a reason why people just assumed it would be in there. Too bad, because his quotes are pretty exciting to think about. Had they come to fruition, anyway.

I don't understand why they can't simply say "it's not possible".

I don't think someone would be disappointed if they said this from the start.

No, some people would have been. Many gamers no longer sign up for games that have no multiplayer in them, so the idea that the galaxy was alive with real players in addition to the procedurally generated AI was part of the allure for many. So yea, there would have been some % of fewer purchasers.

 

[FlammableAce]

https://www.vg247.com/2014/12/11/you-wont-be-playing-no-mans-sky-with-your-friends/

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...ng-of-no-man-s-sky-as-a-multiplayer-game.aspx

2014

Edit: Beaten

 

[OuterLimits]

This wouldn't be the only thing that changed. He used to say 90% were barren planets and only 10% had Life. Obviously that was scrapped as now the vast majority of planets have plants and animals.

Granted, many people overhyped themselves and let their imaginations run wild. However the developers have certainly sent mixed messages and were very vague at times also.

I'm enjoying the game though, and overall think they did a good job. They desperately need to patch the game though as it has frozen my system up 3 times now. I have lost over an hour of playtime. Plus I'm getting nervous with my console freezing up that much.

 

[Kworn]

Because one single dude just made a statement about packet sniffing everything goes real?

I am skeptical that you can just read out every data they send. Normally those packages are encrypted and you can't read shit out of them.

Furthermore, how do you know about the implementation? I am a software engineer myself and there are times where you only send data to servers when specific conditions are met.

If they don't share an instance there is no reason to send out movement data for the server. The server would only need the system, create an instance for multiple players and THEN start sending movement data. Otherwise EVERY player would send out movement data to servers and that would be just wasted bandwidth/processing power for the server.

At this point it is just unclear what happened there and we should keep cool until there is REAL confirmation about that matter.

You have great points

 

[Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule]

From that article.







Two years is a long time, things change. But he has repeated the possibility multiple times. And is not clearing it up now, which is the major problem.

I don't know how some people keep supporting this guy statements

 

[Klyka]

From that article.

I love how in a game where every player has a SPACE SHIP he acts as if the planets being big is somehow a thing that hinders coordinated meet ups.

"What is the North/South Pole?"
"What is flying to a specific outpost?"

Like,it is SO easy to meet up on a planet at the same spot, the two streamers even showed how easy it is with the literal "fly in a straight line out of space station into the planet" thing we suggested to them.

 

[Kinyou]

I don't understand why they can't simply say "it's not possible".

I don't think someone would have been disappointed if they said this from the start.

Yep. Or say "This is a bug, we're looking into it"

Basically just give a clear answer for why these two players can't see eachother

 

[d9b]

No Man's Sky |OT2| Hello worlds. Goodbye other players.

 

[SomTervo]

They, being probably mostly smarter people than us, probably have a vague idea of the amount of data they are going to have to shift and store one thousands of people are playing this at once and uploading discoveries. But they have no idea how popular this will end up being. It could be anywhere from a flash-in-the-pan decent indy title to a minecraft-like phenomena. And as with every other game that comes out, you don't run out and buy massive amounts of cloud/networking until you have to. Also that's not including the crazy ways people might come up with the to break things or really put a stress on the networking. As with every game in existance, it will be played in ways the developers don't anticipate.

This type of game world is completely and utterly unprecedented. The fact that it works this well and doesn't fall over is mind-blowing. I would image at times they will have some networking issues just keeping it running at all, even at a basic level, and that's fine/normal. That happens with every networked game that isn't directly replacing a simimar predecessor thesedays. Imagine if everyone playing minecraft right now was automaically naming everything and uploading every patch of land they wakled on to a central minecraft server - the mojang devops would be sweating bullets.

...

But small issues like this doesn't mean we should be talking about courtcases, or lies, conspiracies or misinformation - madness! The game isn't even out yet (or barely just is). Lets also be clear here, this small aspect of the game is an aside. This isn't Eve Online. This isn't an MMO. We aren't paying monthy fee for a connected massively multiplayer universe. I have a feeling people are going to try to meet up in the dozens... or even hundreds, as soon as they even get a sniff of 2 people meeting up in a single location working, and I can see the same kind of comments rearing their ugly head when that doesn't work - of course it won't work!

Well said

 

[Prime crotch]

An article from 2014 bears little relevance, development changes a lot of things, their question dodging is the main worry, especially when they've been very open and accessible before.

Also, the universe is more a very clever sleight of hand than an unprecedented thing, I'm not one keen on revealing how sausages get made, but the dismissal of valid criticisms with how incredible it must be and thankful the game works is a load of bull.

 

[Zomba13]

I don't know how some people keep supporting this guy statements

They only read headlines and that one tweet where Sean said it's not multiplayer (Sean also thinks Dark Souls and Journey aren't multiplayer).

 

[ar4757]

There is a huge difference between "theoretically possible but incredibly rare" and "the functionality is not in the game".

Right now, the devs are still giving the impression that the first is the case when it isn't. That's deceit.

In the marketing leading up to this game with various interviews on talk shows and whatnot, the devs created this expectation that actually meeting someone would be the holy grail in this game because it is so incredibly rare. Now we find out the functionality of this possibly happening doesn't exist at all.

Maybe they think it technically is theoretically possibly. Theoretically meaning it's possible there's a chance they patch it in. So it's possible. Someday. Maybe.

 

[Elandyll]

Sean was a bit on and off on that feature.... Maybe it was cut. Maybe it's something that unlocks.

But what's certain is that it never was something advertised as a core feature, or something to expect.
Just go to the game site and here is what is said:

Explore uncharted solar systems and catalogue unique new forms of life. Every planet’s landscape is different from the next, and populated by species never before encountered.
Find ancient artefacts that could reveal the secrets behind the universe.
Choose whether to share your discoveries with other players. They’re exploring the same vast universe in parallel; perhaps you’ll make your mark on their worlds as well as your own.

http://www.no-mans-sky.com/about/

 

[Zomba13]

An article from 2014 bears little relevance, development changes a lot of things, their question dodging is the main worry, especially when they've been very open and accessible before.

True, but they've mentioned the "multiplayer" in so many interviews, written and video, since then. Even while on Colbert last year.

 

[freenudemacusers]

in a way, this thread is multiplayer. surely that counts.

 

[SomTervo]

Because one single dude just made a statement about packet sniffing everything goes real?

I am skeptical that you can just read out every data they send. Normally those packages are encrypted and you can't read shit out of them.

Furthermore, how do you know about the implementation? I am a software engineer myself and there are times where you only send data to servers when specific conditions are met.

If they don't share an instance there is no reason to send out movement data for the server. The server would only need the system, create an instance for multiple players and THEN start sending movement data. Otherwise EVERY player would send out movement data to servers and that would be just wasted bandwidth/processing power for the server.

At this point it is just unclear what happened there and we should keep cool until there is REAL confirmation about that matter.

Interesting.

Yeah, this thread is a whole lotta storm. It's not implausible that within a week we'll have a thread called "You can see other players in No Man's Sky" and I bet that thread would get like two pages and go dead in no time because there's no controvsery

 

[ISee]

Can you rule that out for 100%? I don't think so.

People should really try to be more sane and not start shitting around with so little information going around. Hence the fact that one of those dudes had NAT problems but if you're riding your confirmation bias train things like that are ignored easily.

It is just unclear at that point. For both possibilities.

And that's 100% the problem.
People are shitting around because it is so unclear. It's like the devs don't even know what the answer to this question is. A simple YES you can see and interact with other players if you happen to meet them but our servers aren't able to handle the load atm, sorry. would be enough and we could close this thread. And it's a pretty easy statement to make.

 

[Vintage]

This thread is fun to read

On one side we have people saying that it's a big part of the game that devs lied about, the game is now way worse than expected and they won't buy the game because of that. Apart from very lucky experiments like this it's theoretically almost impossible to meet other people and even if you do, it has no effect on gameplay. From what I personally saw it was always supposed to work like this, never expected anything else, even though it would be cool to have.

On other side we have people desperately defending the game with world-class logic gymnastics: "It's just a bug", "It's an easter egg, that's why he doesn't comment on it", "he will release a patch and will put you all to shame", "he's a busy man, so he doesn't have time to answer questions".

One sentence how things actually work here should be enough to settle this once and for all, don't know Sean is still beating around the bush.

 

[jellies_two]

It would have been cool to say they are alternate realities then allow people to chat at terminals on the same planet or something. Or see ghosts of other ships with player names above them executing movements previously done, that would not have required much coding at all...
Or how about a distress beacon that allows one person to donate resources through a warp or something.

So many ways to give some kind of multiplayer without huge world sync issues.

 

[SomTervo]

I don't understand why they can't simply say "it's not possible".

I don't think someone would have been disappointed if they said this from the start.

Yeah, considering how definitively they said it can be done, I'd be willing to say this all boils down to either:

- one player having NAT 3 blocking his port connections. He already said he struggles with certain other games.
- the servers not working properly because they're under so much stress

 

[gossi]

Because one single dude just made a statement about packet sniffing everything goes real?

That guy was me. I made that post on something like page 40 of this thread, it was already well on the way.

 

[Bedlam]

from Reddit

Yeah, that's what's the actually despicable thing for me here. The devs still perpetuating the false narrative because they don't want to lose sales right now.

Game development is difficult. Things change. Features get dropped. I'm fine with that. I also kept my expectations for this game in check - mainly because the procedural generation aspect - and I, like many others, said that some fans are getting their expectations up way too high and are projecting their fantasies into the game.

But when you are directly asked a simple question, a question that you have answered several times in the past, and you don't give a straight answer now (because it would be different now), then that's just shady as fuck. Shame on these guys for doing what they are doing right now on twitter.

 

[Shinjica]

This thread is fun to read

On one side we have people saying that it's a big part of the game that devs lied about, the game is now way worse than expected and they won't buy the game because of that. Apart from very lucky experiments like this it's theoretically almost impossible to meet other people and even if you do, it has no effect on gameplay. From what I personally saw it was always supposed to work like this, never expected anything else, even though it would be cool to have.

On other side we have people desperately defending the game with world-class logic gymnastics: "It's just a bug", "It's an easter egg, that's why he doesn't comment on it", "he will release a patch and will put you all to shame", "he's a busy man, so he doesn't have time to answer questions".

One sentence how things actually work here should be enough to settle this once and for all, don't know Sean is still beating around the bush.

People are asking this from page 1

 

[GankzyMcfly]

in a way, this thread is multiplayer. surely that counts.

I see what you did there

 

[Bedlam]

One sentence how things actually work here should be enough to settle this once and for all, don't know [why] Sean is still beating around the bush.

Sales. Simple.

Keep up the illusion as long as possible and deal with the shitstorm later.

 

[deoee]

in a way, this thread is multiplayer. surely that counts.

Also don't forget you can always call your friends to meet and play together

 

[SomTervo]

And that's 100% the problem.
People are shitting around because it is so unclear. It's like the devs don't even know what the answer to this question is. A simple YES you can see and interact with other players if you happen to meet them but our servers aren't able to handle the load atm, sorry. would be enough and we could close this thread. And it's a pretty easy statement to make.

Absolutely - but I think regarding an official statement, the contention here might be that they want players to find this out themselves. It didn't work this time, but if it can work, perhaps they don't want to spoil it for the players by making an announcement.

Like, imagine this (hypothetical) context behind those tweets from Sean.

- Sean sees that two players are about to meet on a stream
- he's clearly really excited about it, so much so that he makes tweets
- the two players meet each other, and it's immediately clear they haven't been instanced together
- Sean feels frustrated/angry, knowing that players can theoretically meet, but that due to whatever reason (NAT issues or server issues), they aren't seeing each other
- BUT Sean knows that in coming days/weeks, other players will see/find each other, and he knows that when that happens, it will go viral
- so he keeps completely silent, knowing that if he made an official statement he would puncture the potential energy behind the discovery, the mystery and discovery would be gone, but he has to deal with vitriol for a while because of it