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[DoomGaze]

Consumers have a thousand tools to form a very precise idea of what they're buying.

You couldn't wait ? well, that's too bad but it's entirely on you.
People still think they need to preorder and are even outraged when the embargo for reviews is lifted, god forbid, on launch day.
Like it's their right to throw their money at a developer a pig in a poke, but at the same time they want to be able to withdraw the money if they're not happy with their purchase.
Bullshit.

Stop preordering. Stop rushing to buy your new game on day 0.

Steam should not offer refunds, unless there's fundamental issues with the game (like, it was advertised as working on your system, but it doesn't).
What they could do is offer a cheap trial (3$ for the first hour of actual play time ?) and the possibility to rent games in hours.

I didn't buy the game, never really intended to so I guess one could say I have no particular horse in this race.

But there are some serious problems with what you're saying. Your point about people not being able to wait until reviews is curious to me. Because you're implying that reviews should be a good indication of what you're buying, but all of the demos/previews/interviews beforehand should not, which is capricious.

Certainly there's a lot to be said about protecting your own wallet. Ultimately it's my decision to buy or not buy a game, and people have been scamming people for a very long time.

But that is a separate (although important) issue. The question at hand is, was the developer honest with the public? The answer is clearly no. We can talk about the proper response to that, or how one can prepare for that, but that is a different issue altogether, and this issue should not be stifled.

 

[OldmanAndroid]

I'm sorry but this makes no god damn sense.

how so?

 

[Beefy]

Do you boycott nutella? What about all these companies that have lied in the past?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/16/companies-lied-to-you_n_5318940.html

I don't eat Nutella.. I also don't use any of the products in that link. When I feel a company has out right lied to me I complain. It's what being a consumer is about.

 

[Hektor]

See what you want to see. Everyone seems to enjoy wearing the blinders.

So you don't actually have a point.

 

[w0s]

This is my first post in this thread, but just wanted to say that Ive always favoured buyer beware over consumer rights. I believe that companies should have the right to lie/mislead in their marketing (to an extent). The market should correct this. The press has the right to give unfair negative reviews. Word of mouth will spread, especially in a world with internet. Companies that do this should fail.

*MIND EXPLODED*

I'm all for taking personal responsibility but how can you do that if a company lies to you? and wtf unfair as in purposefully click bait bad reviews?

I don't even know what to say to this post.

 

[RawNuts]

Do you boycott nutella? What about all these companies that have lied in the past?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/16/companies-lied-to-you_n_5318940.html

I ate Nutella for 50 hours and then vomited it all back up and got a refund.

 

[DR2K]

Consumers have a thousand tools to form a very precise idea of what they're buying.

You couldn't wait ? well, that's too bad but it's entirely on you.
People still think they need to preorder and are even outraged when the embargo for reviews is lifted, god forbid, on launch day.
Like it's their right to throw their money at a developer a pig in a poke, but at the same time they want to be able to withdraw the money if they're not happy with their purchase.
Bullshit.

Stop preordering. Stop rushing to buy your new game on day 0.

Steam should not offer refunds, unless there's fundamental issues with the game (like, it was advertised as working on your system, but it doesn't).
What they could do is offer a cheap trial (3$ for the first hour of actual play time ?) and the possibility to rent games in hours.

I don't understand this train of logic. As a consumer why are spouting this nonsense? Like why are you trying to limit your rights? I don't see this for any other industry for any other item.

You're entitled to refunds for terrible games, frequent game crashing bugs, false advertisement, etc...

 

[BRocknRolla]

Do you boycott nutella? What about all these companies that have lied in the past?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/16/companies-lied-to-you_n_5318940.html

The fact that it has happened and continues to happen does not make it ok. Consumers are swayed by marketing and lies so companies keep doing it, but that doesn't make it right. Perhaps the world would be a better place if we all assumed everyone around us was lying at all times, but that sounds like a hell of a way to live. I'd prefer we demand a certain basic bar of truthfulness. It doesn't seem like a lot to ask.

Defending a company's "right to lie/mislead" is a very disturbing idea. You should get a job for Philip Morris.

 

[E92 M3]

Seriously E92, I argued exactly what you're arguing for untold countless of pages in previous threads.

And I still agree in principle - I believe lots was cut and adjusted to meet the PS4's computational pipeline. However, a certain point comes where you have to acknowledge that regardless of how much changed or didn't change, that doesn't impact on the extent to which Sean talked about the game and the extent to which (even recent) things he said would be there aren't. Then beyond that is the fact that for many, and especially on PC, the game is in a fairly bad state of affairs with a lot more crashes than what you'd expect. I know games that have been knocked back from PS4 certification with substantially fewer crashes.

The fact that he said he'd rather not talk about the game is pretty funny considering how much he did talk about the game and how much that has dug his grave in the eyes of many.

I am not saying people shouldn't be upset or trying to stifle discussion. Just the vitriol and hatred is going a bit too far.

 

[SolidChamp]

So you don't actually have a point.

Wouldn't you like for that to be the case?

If you expect me to go back and dig through the review and preview threads, you're more delusional than the fanboys who think the game is without fault.

I know what I read, that's enough for me. You can go on wondering.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Wouldn't you like for that to be the case?

If you expect me to go back and dig through the review and preview threads, you're more delusional than the fanboys who think the game is without fault.

I know what I read, that's enough for me. You can go on wondering.

Again, about my avatar... What did you mean?

 

[randomengine]

Wouldn't you like for that to be the case?

If you expect me to go back and dig through the review and preview threads, you're more delusional than the fanboys who think the game is without fault.

I know what I read, that's enough for me. You can go on wondering.

No game is without fault. Let me repeat.....no game is without fault. Your favorite game of all time? Full of faults.

The problem here is that the hate for No Man's Sky has been magnified to an unreasonable extent (for some odd sociological reason) and people who actually like the game are then forced to explain and defend their very reasonable enjoyment of the game. People like a game you don't like. It isn't the end of the world. You don't get it? Fine, move on.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

how so?

Because you as a consumer area actively working against your own interests.
Shifting any blame for missold goods (whether it be by being lied to, poor quality, defects, or however else the product may be at fault) onto yourself for not doing enough research/reading reviews etc is frankly idiotic, when it's the company's irresponsible acts that shouldn't have caused the issue in the first place. They should be held to account not yourself.

I'm not talking about NMS in particular here, I'm just speaking generally, with your reference to wishing the companies be allowed to lie to maximise profit. As a consumer you gain nothing by wishing a company be able to lie for their own ends.

It's irresponsible and unfathomably stupid.

EDIT: Or to phrase it another way, there's a big difference between 'caveat emptor' and actively wishing for organisations to be able to fuck you over.

 

[eso76]

Sorry, but you haven't followed the narrative closely enough. This argument is pretty much immediately moot re NMS.

Maybe so, i still don't think refunds are always a good thing for the industry

 

[RawNuts]

Wouldn't you like for that to be the case?

If you expect me to go back and dig through the review and preview threads, you're more delusional than the fanboys who think the game is without fault.

I know what I read, that's enough for me. You can go on wondering.

If you make a claim like that, it's usually smart to have the posts quoted or on hand and ready to post; "I know what I saw" doesn't go far.

For the record though, I don't doubt you; I think I've seen some.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

No game is without fault. Let me repeat.....no game is without fault.

The problem here is that the hate for No Man's Sky has been magnified to an unreasonable extent (for some odd sociological reason) and people who actually like the game are then forced to explain and defend their very reasonable enjoyment of the game. People like a game you don't like. It isn't the end of the world. You don't get it? Fine, move on.

What? Where and when on earth did anyone force you to explain why you enjoy the game? I've seen plenty of people just post why unbidden but I've never seen anyone "force" someone to tell them why as if they are upset about it... What on earth are you trying to accomplish by pushing this narrative?

 

[SolidChamp]

Thanks?... Are you trying to say that my avatar is me being angry at those who are enjoying the game and bothering them about it?...

Nope.

But it's interesting, nonetheless.

And I never said people were "angry at others for enjoying the game", I said people were being condescending, snarky assholes.

You really think I believe people got red-faced angry because someone enjoyed something they didn't?

No, but a massive fucking fart cloud was sent in the general direction of those who enjoy the game.

I'll repeat myself: there are snarky, condescending assholes on BOTH sides of this debate. And there have been people who have acted like arrogant pricks towards those who "jerk themselves off" to the game.

The OT was called a circle jerk way, way before this thread materialized.

And no, I'm not gonna go digging through buried threads for you. You just need to pay attention to both sides of the debate, not just your own.

 

[Beefy]

Maybe so, i still don't think refunds are a good thing for the industry

Refunds are one if the best ways to improve things. If a company( not just gaming) continues to lie it will lose business and maybe even end up getting sued. Companies that out right decieve people time after time do not deserve to be in business (I am not on about just spin).

 

[SolidChamp]

If you make a claim like that, it's usually smart to have the posts quoted or on hand and ready to post; "I know what I saw" doesn't go far.

For the record though, I don't doubt you; I think I've seen some.

That is both fair, and appreciated.

 

[randomengine]

What? Where and when on earth did anyone force you to explain why you enjoy the game? I've seen plenty of people just post why unbidden but I've never seen anyone "force" someone to tell them why as if they are upset about it... What on earth are you trying to accomplish by pushing this narrative?

I suggest you pick up a sociology textbook and get cracking.

 

[Hektor]

Wouldn't you like for that to be the case?

If you expect me to go back and dig through the review and preview threads, you're more delusional than the fanboys who think the game is without fault.

I know what I read, that's enough for me. You can go on wondering.

Well You know, that's how arguments work. You make a claim and back it up.

I never asked you for your opinion, you were the self proclaimed objective observer coming out of the wood work to tell me how wrong I am.

 

[SolidChamp]

No game is without fault. Let me repeat.....no game is without fault. Your favorite game of all time? Full of faults.

The problem here is that the hate for No Man's Sky has been magnified to an unreasonable extent (for some odd sociological reason) and people who actually like the game are then forced to explain and defend their very reasonable enjoyment of the game. People like a game you don't like. It isn't the end of the world. You don't get it? Fine, move on.

Relax. That's not exactly what I meant. And I consider myself objective, here. I've seen irrational defense of the game as much as I've seen irrational hate and condescending, toxic attitudes. This game is...well...

I know that no game is without fault. Of course I know that.

I'm simply saying people are being irrational, in general, about this whole damn thing.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Nope.

But it's interesting, nonetheless.

And I never said people were "angry at others for enjoying the game", I said people were being condescending, snarky assholes.

You really think I believe people got red-faced angry because someone enjoyed something they didn't?

No, but a massive fucking fart cloud was sent in the general direction of those who enjoy the game.

I'll repeat myself: there are snarky, condescending assholes on BOTH sides of this debate. And there have been people who have acted like arrogant pricks towards those who "jerk themselves off" to the game.

The OT was called a circle jerk way, way before this thread materialized.

And no, I'm not gonna go digging through buried threads for you. You just need to pay attention to both sides of the debate, not just your own.

When did this happen? I have been there from the beginning. I don't think you should get let off that easily if you are going to say that a whole bunch of people are trying to rain on your parade. What do I think is happening though? I think that you enjoy a thing and you want it to be successful, you see a whole bunch of others not enjoying thing and in fact upset about thing and venting their anger towards thing and you are taking it personally.

I've stated many times that I am glad for those who are enjoying the game. I absolutely do not believe that the tone of the situation is wanting to crap on those that are.

Also, Are you ready to take the pilgrimage?

 

[ReBurn]

Thanks?... Are you trying to say that my avatar is me being angry at those who are enjoying the game and bothering them about it?...

You got all that from "I like your avatar" somehow. Wow.

 

[randomengine]

When did this happen? I have been there from the beginning. I don't think you should get let off that easily if you are going to say that a whole bunch of people are trying to rain on your parade. What do I think is happening though? I think that you enjoy a thing and you want it to be successful, you see a whole bunch of others not enjoying thing and in fact upset about thing and venting their anger towards thing and you are taking it personally.

I've stated many times that I am glad for those who are enjoying the game. I absolutely do not believe that the tone of the situation is wanting to crap on those that are.

Also, Are you ready to take the pilgrimage?

I have been here from the beginning as well. It was all over the place. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Cheech]

Maybe so, i still don't think refunds are always a good thing for the industry

There's a reason Sony itself is issuing refunds for played PSN copies of this game, even though it's something they typically don't do.

NMS is a complete pile of shit, a FIRST PARTY PUBLISHED pile of shit, and if Sony wants people to not lose faith in their brand, giving refunds is what you do. It's just good business.

Hopefully between this and The Order, Sony is a bit more careful with the games they put their name on. They haven't had a great year.

 

[Transistor]

There's a reason Sony itself is issuing refunds for played PSN copies of this game, even though it's something they typically don't do.

NMS is a complete pile of shit, a FIRST PARTY PUBLISHED pile of shit, and if Sony wants people to not lose faith in their brand, giving refunds is what you do. It's just good business.

Hopefully between this and The Order, Sony is a bit more careful with the games they put their name on. They haven't had a great year.

Sony did not publish No Man's Sky, and The Order wasn't this year. How else has Sony had a bad year?

 

[SolidChamp]

Well You know, that's how arguments work. You make a claim and back it up.

I never asked you for your opinion, you were the self proclaimed objective observer coming out of the wood work to tell me how wrong I am.

You and I both know how this goes. I give you an example, it doesn't satisfy you because "Well, that's just one example", and on and on it goes. Take my word for it, or don't. I'm being as honest and direct as I can. I could care less about what you believe. If I desperately felt that I needed to prove myself, I'd spend 2 hours of my evening digging for examples you seem to need so much in order to believe there are people being assholes on your side of the debate.

And besides, someone here has already mentioned they've seen it too. So, let's just not feed into this anymore than we already have, shall we?

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

You got all that from "I like your avatar" somehow. Wow.

Because it was in response to this...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=215326297#post215326297

 

[JaseC]

There's a reason Sony itself is issuing refunds for played PSN copies of this game, even though it's something they typically don't do.

NMS is a complete pile of shit, a FIRST PARTY PUBLISHED pile of shit, and if Sony wants people to not lose faith in their brand, giving refunds is what you do. It's just good business.

Hopefully between this and The Order, Sony is a bit more careful with the games they put their name on. They haven't had a great year.

Sony isn't the publisher (the game was and is self-published), but this is a common misconception that arose from its strong marketing push for the game.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I suggest you pick up a sociology textbook and get cracking.

Total cop out.

 

[SolidChamp]

When did this happen? I have been there from the beginning. I don't think you should get let off that easily if you are going to say that a whole bunch of people are trying to rain on your parade. What do I think is happening though? I think that you enjoy a thing and you want it to be successful, you see a whole bunch of others not enjoying thing and in fact upset about thing and venting their anger towards thing and you are taking it personally.

I've stated many times that I am glad for those who are enjoying the game. I absolutely do not believe that the tone of the situation is wanting to crap on those that are.

Also, Are you ready to take the pilgrimage?

Can you like, read my post history before you presume to think you know the first thing about me?

Jesus fucking christ. LMAO

This is the problem here, with this fucking game and this fucking debate and these fucking people.

Nobody reads shit. They make shit up in their head and I can't, I can't, I can't.

I'm not that person you so desperately want me to be. Sorry.

 

[flkraven]

Why are some No Man's Sky's fans taking all the criticisms so personally? Unless you are lying scumbag Murray himself, it has nothing to do with you, does it? No one is shitting on you for enjoying the game. They are shitting on the developers for selling a lie.

 

[Beefy]

Can you like, read my post history before you presume to think you know the first thing about me?

Jesus fucking christ. LMAO

This is the problem here, with this fucking game and this fucking debate and these fucking people.

Nobody reads shit. They make shit up in their head and I can't, I can't, I can't.

I'm not that person you so desperately want me to be. Sorry.

It isn't just this game tbh. So many people get crazy over things that shouldn't really matter.

 

[D4Danger]

Maybe so, i still don't think refunds are always a good thing for the industry

you realise it benefits you, right?

 

[Transistor]

Maybe so, i still don't think refunds are always a good thing for the industry

And making broken games isn't good for the consumer.

 

[SolidChamp]

It isn't just this game tbh. So many people get crazy over things that shouldn't really matter.

I am at a loss. I'm suddenly "them".

Like, wow.

I took a break from the game because this shit just soured everything. Sean Murray is a liar (no, he really is, he actually failed to deliver on what he said he was giving us), the gaming community is whipped into a frenzy, and I'm damned if I try to remain objective, and damned if I comment in "favor" of any one "side". Like, holy merciful fuck.

Hektor was all like "Nobody is shitting on people for liking the game. That has literally NEVER happened" (I'm paraphrasing, maybe he doesn't believe this. I hope not), and when I chime in and I'm like "Um, yes, there's been tons of snark coming from both sides, people are being assholes to each other, people are being assholes in their defense, people are being assholes in attacking the game with the whole WHY DO YOU FUCKING LIKE THIS bullshit..."

No, that can't be right. I must be making shit up. And since I don't want to backtrack through dozens upon dozens of pages of shitpots and clusterfuckery to produce multiple examples, I must be full of shit and therefore...I'm one of THEM! I'm pissed because the game is failing! AAAHHH!

L O L

This is too much fun.

 

[randomengine]

Total cop out.

You assume we have all the knowledge we need to have any kind of argument? How naive is that? You need to understand sociology to answer your question. Obviously, one of us hasn't done that. It is not my job to teach you. Go learn on your own time, get your questions answered and then come back.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Can you like, read my post history before you presume to think you know the first thing about me?

Jesus fucking christ. LMAO

This is the problem here, with this fucking game and this fucking debate and these fucking people.

Nobody reads shit. They make shit up in their head and I can't, I can't, I can't.

I'm not that person you so desperately want me to be. Sorry.

I have seriously read almost every line from every NMS thread, only stuff I might have missed was when I was sleeping but even then I tried. Why? Because I take this seriously and I have been taking such a harsh role in this and I think constantly about what is on the line on both sides of the equation. I try as hard as I can to be responsible for the things that I do and say. I have been trying even harder in this situation to handle it as well as I can because I know there are feelings involved on both sides. I mean read through my post history, I was hyped in the beginning and defending the game and HG.

 

[Hektor]

You and I both know how this goes. I give you an example, it doesn't satisfy you because "Well, that's just one example", and on and on it goes.

Good that you know me so well. It's funny that youre trying to shift the blame onto someone else preemptively.

I could care less about what you believe.

I already noticed that.

If I desperately felt that I needed to prove myself, I'd spend 2 hours of my evening digging for examples you seem to need so much in order to believe there are people being assholes on your side of the debate.

So you think there's a side im on huh? What side would that be?

And besides, someone here has already mentioned they've seen it too.

So, let's just not feed into this anymore than we already have, shall we?

Well You were the one starting this argument. Felt free to end it, one way or another. I'm gonna sit at work for two more hours without anything to do, I have time.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Is this real? Where am I? That's so sad.

A more exclusive version of GameFAQs.

 

[RawNuts]

You assume we have all the knowledge we need to have any kind of argument? How naive is that? You need to understand sociology to answer your question. Obviously, one of us hasn't done that. It is not my job to teach you. Go learn on your own time, get your questions answered and then come back.

You need to pick up a philosophy book and learn a bit about it before you reply. Then you need to move onto calculus, then biology. After that, take a couple of classes concerning quantum mechanics until you understand the fundamentals of weak measurement. Once all those prerequisites have been fulfilled, you may reply to that post.

 

[benicillin]

I have seriously read almost every line from every NMS thread, only stuff I might have missed was when I was sleeping but even then I tried. Why? Because I take this seriously and I have been taking such a harsh role in this and I think constantly about what is on the line on both sides of the equation. I try as hard as I can to be responsible for the things that I do and say. I have been trying even harder in this situation to handle it as well as I can because I know there are feelings involved on both sides. I mean read through my post history, I was hyped in the beginning and defending the game and HG.

You should take a break man, that can't be healthy. No Man's Sky is just this years Mass Effect 3.

 

[veloxStrix]

Do you boycott nutella? What about all these companies that have lied in the past?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/16/companies-lied-to-you_n_5318940.html

I've been lurking through this thread since it started, but this is some dumb shit right here. Do you really honestly think this is a compelling argument to anything? How many people do you think bought those products due to those promises? Maybe 5% of the end users - and that's a high estimate, absurdly even - of Rice Krispies are chowing down because they support children's immunity? Is that the reason the majority of people buy cereal, for immune support? Or all those people out on the streets rioting over the fact that Fruit Rollups weren't naturally flavored? I mean, Fruit Rollups for Jesus H. Christ's sake. And what about Olay ads having touched up photos? Dios mio.

Solid comparison to No Man's Sky though. Which is a product that we only really knew about from interviews and developer gameplay. The difference is that the public's entire perception of No Man's Sky was formed around interviews, comments, insights, and promises from the developer that were repeated over and over again from Day 1. Now it's obviously debatable whether the game failed to deliver on those promises - since we have over 50 pages of just that - but the fact that you thought you were providing some kind of logical argument here is completely absurd to me.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Can you like, read my post history before you presume to think you know the first thing about me?

Jesus fucking christ. LMAO

This is the problem here, with this fucking game and this fucking debate and these fucking people.

Nobody reads shit. They make shit up in their head and I can't, I can't, I can't.

I'm not that person you so desperately want me to be. Sorry.

This part,

What do I think is happening though? I think that you enjoy a thing and you want it to be successful, you see a whole bunch of others not enjoying thing and in fact upset about thing and venting their anger towards thing and you are taking it personally.

Wasn't directed at you btw, it was just what I think may be happening in general.

 

[flkraven]

Can you like, read my post history before you presume to think you know the first thing about me?

Jesus fucking christ. LMAO

This is the problem here, with this fucking game and this fucking debate and these fucking people.

Nobody reads shit. They make shit up in their head and I can't, I can't, I can't.

I'm not that person you so desperately want me to be. Sorry.

.

I could care less about what you believe.

 

[Hektor]

Can you like, read my post history before you presume to think you know the first thing about me?

Jesus fucking christ. LMAO

This is the problem here, with this fucking game and this fucking debate and these fucking people.

Nobody reads shit. They make shit up in their head and I can't, I can't, I can't.

I'm not that person you so desperately want me to be. Sorry.

I am at a loss. I'm suddenly "them".

Like, wow.

I took a break from the game because this shit just soured everything. Sean Murray is a liar (no, he really is, he actually failed to deliver on what he said he was giving us), the gaming community is whipped into a frenzy, and I'm damned if I try to remain objective, and damned if I comment in "favor" of any one "side". Like, holy merciful fuck.

Hektor was all like "Nobody is shitting on people for liking the game. That has literally NEVER happened" (I'm paraphrasing, maybe he doesn't believe this. I hope not), and when I chime in and I'm like "Um, yes, there's been tons of snark coming from both sides, people are being assholes to each other, people are being assholes in their defense, people are being assholes in attacking the game with the whole WHY DO YOU FUCKING LIKE THIS bullshit..."

No, that can't be right. I must be making shit up. And since I don't want to backtrack through dozens upon dozens of pages of shitpots and clusterfuckery to produce multiple examples, I must be full of shit and therefore...I'm one of THEM! I'm pissed because the game is failing! AAAHHH!

L O L

This is too much fun.

These posts are very funny considering you started presuming things about me, and pushing me into certain sides.

For an objective observer you are using a very colorful language btw

 

[Wickerbasket]

I am at a loss. I'm suddenly "them".

Like, wow.

I took a break from the game because this shit just soured everything. Sean Murray is a liar (no, he really is, he actually failed to deliver on what he said he was giving us), the gaming community is whipped into a frenzy, and I'm damned if I try to remain objective, and damned if I comment in "favor" of any one "side". Like, holy merciful fuck.

It's fine to like the game, but people's emotions are running high and there's craziness all over the place. You have people feeling like they've been lied to and cheated, and then you have another group telling them that they're wrong for wanting their money back.

I mean, there's people in this thread suggesting the gaming industry is being harmed by refunds, instead of suggesting that maybe they shouldn't be releasing faulty products to consumers in the first place. If a consumers has a legitimate reason for a refund, then they should definitely get it in my opinion.

It's really hard to read a post in this kind of environment without attributing some sort of bias towards it one way or another.

 

[heliosRAzi]

These posts are very funny considering you started presuming things about me, and pushing me into certain sides.

For an objective observer you are using a very colorful language btw

He also presumed Kyoufu was a thief because he returned the game

 

[SolidChamp]

I have seriously read almost every line from every NMS thread, only stuff I might have missed was when I was sleeping but even then I tried. Why? Because I take this seriously and I have been taking such a harsh role in this and I think constantly about what is on the line on both sides of the equation. I try as hard as I can to be responsible for the things that I do and say. I have been trying even harder in this situation to handle it as well as I can because I know there are feelings involved on both sides. I mean read through my post history, I was hyped in the beginning and defending the game and HG.

Try applying that same logic and approach to others. Don't presume to think you're the only one.

And don't, for one second, that the exact same type of asshole doesn't exist on both sides of this debate. Believe me, they do.