RandomHopeInc
Member
Really? A $14000 ship? Does that come with..anything? Like something I can hold in the real world?
Its an online economy basically, you could make good actual money with that ship
Really? A $14000 ship? Does that come with..anything? Like something I can hold in the real world?
Lord have mercy.Making a comparison to irrational hatred, which this is, is insane? I'm the one criticizing insanity.
Picking apart and spinning my words like this proving the point of that post.
Making a comparison to irrational hatred, which this is, is insane? I'm the one criticizing insanity.
Picking apart and spinning my words like this proving the point of that post.
The rabbit hole really goes deep on this one. Jeez.
"Amateur hour" doesn't begin to cover it.
LOL @ "The Javelin Destroyer, one of the crown jewels of Star Citizens fleet, is 345 metres long, stands 60 metres tall, is divided into five decks and requires a crew of 23 players to even get off the ground. According to Roberts, designing one of these monstrosities can take upwards of six months, siphoning more than half a million dollars off the games gargantuan budget."
It's incredible, really. These guys have devised a way to siphon money out of people in perpetuity while they flail around trying to play Worldwide Game Development Studio Manager.
I should point out that is dirt cheap. Considering Street Fighter characters cost upwards of 1M to make. 1 Skullgirls character costs 250k.
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/02/2...-each-to-create-heres-why-squigly-is-cheaper/
Making a comparison to irrational hatred, which this is, is insane? I'm the one criticizing insanity.
Picking apart and spinning my words like this proving the point of that post.
Things like that really show just how misinformed about games development a large amount of people are. Quite a lot of the complaints I've seen about this game have revolved around someone really having no idea what they're talking about and how things actually work with development. There are valid criticisms with the game but most of the things about either the time frame/deadlines or the cost of things that I've seen people complain about seem to just be outright wrong.
I'm not directing this at Perry in particular, but seeing it takes 6 months and 500mil for a huge ship and then straight jumping to the conclusion that such a thing must show something bad about the game despite seemingly not having any sort of frame of reference to for other games is sort of an absurd thing to do.
Things like that really show just how misinformed about games development a large amount of people are. Quite a lot of the complaints I've seen about this game have revolved around someone really having no idea what they're talking about and how things actually work with development. There are valid criticisms with the game but most of the things about either the time frame/deadlines or the cost of things that I've seen people complain about seem to just be outright wrong.
I'm not directing this at Perry in particular, but seeing it takes 6 months and 500mil for a huge ship and then straight jumping to the conclusion that such a thing must show something bad about the game despite seemingly not having any sort of frame of reference to for other games is sort of an absurd thing to do.
This logic makes no sense AT ALL in the context of game development. It assumes that all development halts when they're working on one thing instead of several different things being iterated on at the same time and coming together more and more as the project hits it's stride.Yeah for me it's less about oh that one ship took 6 months and more about... what if instead of that 6 months they put 6 whole months into some existing feature to make it better or that's another 6 month delay which costs X dollars to keep the company rolling along.
God forbid they ever find out how much it costs to animate a character taking off clothing in a believable way.Pretty much all the people down on this project seem to have no clue about game development.
Pretty much all the people down on this project seem to have no clue about game development.
So how much money have you "invested" in this game?
This logic makes no sense AT ALL in the context of game development. It assumes that all development halts when they're working on one thing instead of several different things being iterated on at the same time and coming together more and more as the project hits it's stride.
And I never stated that making big ships was a mistake, I said when it's all said and done it's interesting to analyze how a company came to the conclusion of using existing resources and if they would have or could have done anything different. I was talking in speculation.
I have backed this game a couple of years ago.
Whenever some individual mentions scope creep, defenders counter that feature x was mentioned months ago.
Do we have a definitive answer for whether the scope expanded?
I have backed this game a couple of years ago.
Whenever some individual mentions scope creep, defenders counter that feature x was mentioned months ago.
Do we have a definitive answer for whether the scope expanded?
I have backed this game a couple of years ago.
Whenever some individual mentions scope creep, defenders counter that feature x was mentioned months ago.
Do we have a definitive answer for whether the scope expanded?
God forbid they ever find out how much it costs to animate a character taking off clothing in a believable way.
I think the catch-22 here is that there's a fair argument that that's a task that simply was not necessary in the first place. Star Citizen is doing some things that have never - or at least rarely - been done, and that's worthy of note, but it's perhaps also worth considering why they haven't been regarded as all that important in the past. If the reason is simply budget, fair enough (SC is spending a lot, but that's not a problem in itself, because it has a lot to spend in the first place); it's not necessarily the case that throwing more money at the core of the game instead would make the core of the game happen faster.
However, all that said, it does feel somewhat like the 'flashy stuff' is obscuring the game itself; it may feel that there's too much focus on it. I'm a backer, myself. I'm really not clear what the FPS module (for example) is for with respect to what I backed. It wasn't part of my consideration when I backed; I hadn't even considered the graphical requirements of that sort of environment when imagining the computer I'd need to run the game as-pitched; the game I was picturing four years ago didn't *need* that. That's where a little discomfort lies.
However, all that said, it does feel somewhat like the 'flashy stuff' is obscuring the game itself; it may feel that there's too much focus on it. I'm a backer, myself. I'm really not clear what the FPS module (for example) is for with respect to what I backed. It wasn't part of my consideration when I backed; I hadn't even considered the graphical requirements of that sort of environment when imagining the computer I'd need to run the game as-pitched; the game I was picturing four years ago didn't *need* that. That's where a little discomfort lies.
I think that suggests you might have a pretty misguided view of what the game actually is going to be and what it is trying to accomplish. It is not just a "game about flying spaceships", the ships themselves are not the entire focus of it and the things like the first person gameplay are just as important. They've said quite a few times that they want it to be a very immersive game that doesn't feel like a videogame (as in no silly magical out-of-context menus everywhere, no teleporting into ships etc) and doing the characters properly is a big part of that.
It's not a game where flying spaceships is all that really matters, that is a very important part of it obviously, but it's trying to create a living universe where you can do whatever role you want; you're a character, not just a ship. From the start they've said it'll push the boundary's and do things differently to other games. If you can't see why having good facial animations and overall player immersion is important, i don't think you've really fully understood the goal of it.
The last stretch goal was in Dec 2014. They have been working on things already planned since then. Not all goals were game related features or things that would add alot of time to development. So no.
From the developers who worked on it:
"I asked each of my sources if they thought Star Citizen could actually be made, knowing what they do, and there was no clear consensus. But there was clear agreement on overscope."
Well, the question is "expanded when?" It certainly has expanded a lot from the Kickstarter/early crowdfunding but they are saying it stopped expanding quite a while ago (2014 as mentioned) At this point, whether there is some internal expansion, I don't think we can really say but it doesn't seem like it to me. They seem to be all hands on deck to just finish the stuff that they planned after the stretch goals were completed.
Here are the stretch goals that they funded up to the 65 million dollar point: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals
The cool stuff is cool once or twice, then people just run everywhere and mash the 'skip' button to quickly reach the actual 'mission accept/claim/buy/sell' menu.
Pretty much all the people down on this project seem to have no clue about game development.
You are probably right about my expectations being wrong. But I don't think any amount of immersive FPS stuff will get around the fundamental fact that (especially in the SC PU) people will be wanting to do the spaceship stuff and all the bits in between will feel like tedious busywork.
Players in MMO spaces quickly optimise their 'hub' behaviour to minimise downtime. The cool stuff is cool once or twice, then people just run everywhere and mash the 'skip' button to quickly reach the actual 'mission accept/claim/buy/sell' menu.
I mean, that last X game (rebirth?) had realistic starbase interiors, where you had to go and physically talk to merchants and mission NPCs. And it was awful. And not just because the art and animations weren't good enough. Everyone immediately modded it to have a menu that was selectable from the docking port rather than actually having to walk around like a 'real' spaceship captain.
All the amazingly animated briefings will quickly devolve into a dozen players bunnyhoping around in front of the hangar door waiting for it to finally open; jumping on Davos Spaceworth's head; or standing behind him while performing the pelvic thrust from a /dance emote.
I'm very suspicious of anyone that says they're trying to make it more real and less like a game. Because it is a game, and games do gamey shortcuts because it makes a better game, not just because they lack the ability to animate believable real-life actions.
Good to hear there's a ship combat update coming soon though. I'll definitely take the opportunity to try it.
I can't see this project ending well at all.
I worked in game dev for seven years, you?
.
I’m lucky enough not to have a Kickstarter game fail on me, sinking into oblivion with my precious notes gone forever, but I can’t - and don’t particularly want to - imagine how I’d feel if I’d stumped up hundreds or thousands of pounds on something only to see development stretch on for months or years or - worst case - never finish at all.
Maybe that’s what’s unique about Star Citizen: that for at least some of its backers (the happy ones) it’s not a product they’re paying for, but the experience of being a backer. Like that age-old piece of advice to gamblers heading out to Vegas for the weekend, the people who come back happy aren’t generally the people who go to win, but the people who can see their losses at the tables as the price of a good time.
I can't see this project ending well at all.
I worked in game dev for seven years, you?
FWIW I think they'll get the single player game out, albeit later than expected, and less impressive.
It's the MMO/persistent side that ludicrously overpromises.
The reasons why its not playable today come down to the same things that have hit all aspects of Star Citizens development: overcoming technical debt, internal management problems, and a reliance on contractors.
Illfonic sent the email, a source tells me. It was a mutual thing but Illfonic sent the email.
CIG had already hinted that it wanted to take the first-person module in-house. But at the same time, [Illfonic] had had enough, says a source. They sent the email, they wanted out. After two years of working with CIG on Star Marine with no end in sight, and having to repeatedly redo its work, Illfonics team morale was shot. It was numbing, a source said.
Another source at CIG told me that Illfonic was producing what they should have been delivering [...] the fault landed on our internal requirements. It's going to be very difficult for any outside vendor to match what we're asking [if] it's a constantly moving target. Couple that with a lot of money being spent on manpower per month and it didn't seem financially feasible to keep them on.
These articles are about the state of the game in the past, not the current state of the game, just FYI.Reminds me of the BioShock Infinite story about Ken Levine insisting Finktown be completely redone as it didn't match his vision. Ended up costing millions and months of dev time.
If this game launches before 2020 and turns out good it'll be a miracle.
However, as Illfonic continued to polish the Star Marine module, CIG started to ask for changes. Once different people started to see it, they'd have an idea, and then once Chris liked the idea it just had to happen, my source recalls. Every couple of weeks they wanted to add something or they wanted to change something and that would erase several months work. We tried to hit every delivery and they kept changing it.
In the midst of all this, the people working on Star Citizen have also had to deal with an extraordinary amount of drama, perpetuated by a seemingly never-ending feud that started 24 years ago and shows no signs of wrapping up. Its been an unpleasant but unignorable facet of the Star Citizen story so far, and one of the things that makes it tough to report: so much of it is tainted by this unpleasantness. This, surely, has contributed to some unwise decisions by people at Cloud Imperium Games in how it has dealt with its community and the press: enforced bans and refunds, derogatory language and legal threats against media outlets are not a good look. I cant think of a single other game project that has had to wrestle with all the challenges of development while also dealing with someone whose main purpose in life appears to be to discredit it.
It is difficult, after all these months of research and having heard from so many people involved with the project, to seriously entertain the notion that Star Citizen is some kind of intentional scam. Hundreds of people all over the world are working hard on it, and have been for years. Although there have been plenty of scandalous allegations, not one of them has checked out in our research though of course nobody outside of its management team has full visibility on Cloud Imperiums finances. If Star Citizen goes down and it yet might it will likely be because its sheer scope is out of step with the reality of actually making it, or because the money runs out, or because its taken too long and its funders have finally withdrawn their support. If there is anything more nefarious than that going on, we have found no convincing evidence of it.
There are a lot of people still rooting for Chris Roberts and Star Citizen, and plenty of others whove written it off as the ultimate in wasteful hubris. I dont want to end such an exhaustively reported series of articles with something woolly like well just have to see what happens: I want to give a more specific assessment of what weve learned from all these months. So, here goes: based on all the evidence, I believe there is a decent chance that Star Citizen will make it to some form of release. But I dont think it will happen within the next couple of years, and by the time it does happen, theres a chance that other games like Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare and Star Citizens great rival Elite Dangerous may well have already given us great versions of the things that Star Citizen is trying to achieve.
Would be great if someone just made a new wing commander or tie fighter or colony wars or something. This game is going to be a mess if they ever finish it.
Reminds me of the BioShock Infinite story about Ken Levine insisting Finktown be completely redone as it didn't match his vision. Ended up costing millions and months of dev time.
If this game launches before 2020 and turns out good it'll be a miracle.