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[Burny]

Burny, I just want to say that your 25 posts from this thread will look so stupid when they'll finally showcase S42.

Oh, I'd love if they did. Maybe I'd be playing this game by then, for which they haven't manage to produce so much as a new trailer in the four years since showing that footage (nope, I don't count a talking head spouting sci fi cliche drivel as trailer). But really, if they stay true to their current base level of quality for their playable output, there'll be little surprise in it for me. Janyk ass broken tech demo gonna janky ass broken tech demo.

But I'd equally love to see your reactions if my perception of Star Citizen being a total trainwreck is closer to the truth than you people's unwavering optimism. The No Man's Sky debacle would look like a kindergarten in comparison and all the premature derision for the doubters... Well.


One thing that won't change for me in any scenario is the impression I've gotten of Chris Roberts. He is full of it.

 

[noface]

Burny, I just want to say that your 25 posts from this thread will look so stupid when they'll finally showcase S42.

See you in 2020.

 

[Burny]

See you in 2020.

I'm not sure if a couple of thousand whales will carry a 300 something souls project through another 4 years by buying fantasy spaceship renders, if they don't produce some playable output in the meantime, that even remotely matches their claim of "BDSSE".

 

[TheVoidDragon]

I'm so happy we have so many CIG insiders chiming in here, knowing what's really going on internally and able to assure us that everything is peachy.

Being the pleb I am, I can only go by the facts that I'm seeing. They could have, they would have, they want to and all at the highest fidelity.

No, you aren't. You're outright ignoring what they said about it during the livestream and that they even told us how far along everything with SQ42 is. You're ignoring everything and replacing it with a "It's clearly all lies!" narrative that you've came up with.

They've said it's nearly ready to be shown. They've suggested during their streams later in the year. If it gets shown then, your "there is no game, it's all a lie/failing" story will entirely fall apart.

But then again, if you can't even get a game into presentable state till October, what do you realistically expect to change about that till November or December? At least if you're not so full of shit as to try telling your backers that the promised separate FPS arena shooter module is already part of your broken ass open world tech demo for your MMO game?

About a month ago it was looking likely it would be finished in the next week weeks which was why Chris said it. I don't know how you can seriously believe it's been an entire year trying to get 1 level sorted, they would have been working on the campaign as a whole for most of that time. A month or two seems like plenty of time to get it finished off considering what they said about what they were going to show.

As far as i know they have not said "Star Marine" itself is included in the current persistent universe that's available, so a quote for that would be nice.

 

[Chev]

They've said it's nearly ready to be shown. They've suggested during their streams later in the year. If it gets shown then, your "there is no game, it's all a lie/failing" story will entirely fall apart.

It's not the first time they say it's nearly ready to show though. The story stands up pretty well so far. And while of course it could be true this time, it is also a symptom of dev hell, where projects are always almost ready but never actually ready.

 

[Burny]

They've said it's nearly ready to be shown. They've suggested during their streams later in the year. If it gets shown then, your "there is no game, it's all a lie/failing" story will entirely fall apart.

Forgive me for not giving any credit to all the shit they say anymore and only paying attention to any ETAs they bring up and the results they deliver. You know, expectations for deliverables they create and the facts of what they actually deliver as playable product.

As far as i know they have not said "Star Marine" itself is included in the current persistent universe that's available, so a quote for that would be nice.

That quote can be found two pages ago, but here it is again, just for you:

“Star Marine was just a game mode for people to play the FPS element in Star Citizen until we could combine everything together, flying, walking around, shooting, doing all of the rest of the stuff all together. That’s what’s in two point zero! That’s what’s in two point one! So, with SC Alpha 2.0 onwards, you have pretty basically what we were planning from the very beginning. If you go back and look at the original pitch, you will see we said we will have FPS and we will have boarding. You have FPS and you have boarding right now. What really is happening is there will not be features that will only be for Star Marine outside of a competition map and scoring.”

So it was just a game mode for the meantime till Alpha 2.0, but now is obsolete? You have been planning this from the beginning? But now it's part of 2.6 again? But that's just the competition map and scoring, right? Sure thing Chris.

That bighead says the dearest things btw. and again, I'm bringing up this quote from the last pages, just for you:

You have stated that you expect to have an Alpha up and going in about 12 months, with a beta roughly 10 months after that and then launch. For a game of this size and scope, do you think you can really be done in the next two years?

Chris Roberts: Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale.

Uh-hm. Constant iteration, stale after three years, already a year in production, no kitchen sink. But then we get five years by your count without playable Squadron 42 output, but 470$ (that was about the Starliner's price, right?) cocktail mixing minigames concepts... Also contradicts the "we want the 'first' Squadron 42 showing to be perfect" bullshit excuse. Constant iteration, right?

 

[CyberPunked]

I got a refund for my 265$ a week ago. Just open a ticket

Will do thanks

The idea that people think you're entitled to a refund for a crow-funded project blows my mind. It's a risk, and you accept that when you invest your money. Removing your money before they've released the final product is completely illogical.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

The idea that people think you're entitled to a refund for a crow-funded project blows my mind. It's a risk, and you accept that when you invest your money. Removing your money before they've released the final product is completely illogical.

People seem to just treat crowdfunding like any other pre-order for a game, which is entirely the wrong thing to do and defeats the point of doing it in the first place. If something turns out to be an actual scam then trying to get a refund makes sense but a reason of just "I'm not happy, i've changed my mind" seems silly.

It's not the first time they say it's nearly ready to show though. The story stands up pretty well so far. And while of course it could be true this time, it is also a symptom of dev hell, where projects are always almost ready but never actually ready.

When have they said SQ42 was nearly ready to be shown in the past?

 

[Soi-Fong]

The idea that people think you're entitled to a refund for a crow-funded project blows my mind. It's a risk, and you accept that when you invest your money. Removing your money before they've released the final product is completely illogical.

The fuckers developing this game decided to change their TOS so this thing can basically be in development indefinitely. Don't be surprised people are getting refunds. They changed the TOS for the worst.

Not everyone is under the same spell that Roberts is casting on you guys.

 

[Outrun]

The idea that people think you're entitled to a refund for a crow-funded project blows my mind. It's a risk, and you accept that when you invest your money. Removing your money before they've released the final product is completely illogical.

Where on earth to arrive at entitlement from what I said?

There is not expectation. There is just a hope that I can get my money back...

 

[AnthonypUK]

The idea that people think you're entitled to a refund for a crow-funded project blows my mind. It's a risk, and you accept that when you invest your money. Removing your money before they've released the final product is completely illogical.

If you weren't entitled to it, they wouldn't refund you.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

The idea that people think you're entitled to a refund for a crow-funded project blows my mind. It's a risk, and you accept that when you invest your money. Removing your money before they've released the final product is completely illogical.

If the project goals changed, then why should you be locked into backing whatever they are developing now?

What if you don't have time for games anymore? What if you cannot affect the upped hardware specs? What if you don't like the idea the fact that the SP game is split into 3 episodes?

CIG opened refunds voluntarily, so they entitled the community themselves.

 

[Outrun]

If you weren't entitled to it, they wouldn't refund you.

I know I am not entitled to a refund, I also know that CIG has been given refunds out of their own volition.

But enough of this nonsense. The issue here is CIG mismanaging this project to such an extent that in 2016, they cannot even give a release window for SQ42.

It is almost as if defenders of this project want to stiffle any criticism directed to CIG. No one is allowed to say a darn thing.

As a project manager, the most important thing is communication. CIG not being able to communicate with its stakeholders in regards to project completion is unacceptable. I understand that we did not preorder the game. But as backers we are stakeholders nevertheless.

Unless, we are nobodies with no expectations...?

 

[Maledict]

No, you aren't. You're outright ignoring what they said about it during the livestream and that they even told us how far along everything with SQ42 is. You're ignoring everything and replacing it with a "It's clearly all lies!" narrative that you've came up with.

They've said it's nearly ready to be shown. They've suggested during their streams later in the year. If it gets shown then, your "there is no game, it's all a lie/failing" story will entirely fall apart.

I don't think you understand what the phrase 'the facts I am seeing' means. Someone telling you something that you cannot see or prove is the opposite of a fact. Right now, going on the objective evidence we have in front of us, something is rotten in Denmark.

 

[Burny]

It is almost as if defenders of this project want to stiffle any criticism directed to CIG. No one is allowed to say a darn thing.

Cut the "almost" and "as if" and you're on the mark. But the cult's defense force is wavering. I haven't been called "Derek Smart" since the embarassing Citizencon debacle on here. That has been the go-to method of choice for conjuring up general derision and laughter on anybody who questions the drivel Roberts & Co. keep spouting. It's been frighteningly effective at stifling critical discussions of any of the less pretty sides of this model project for open development. That is to say, about anything that is not a downsampled bullshot or an in-engine tech demo with no relation to the available alpha prototypes. After all, the big chairman himself responded to a critical article that never mentioned Derek Smart (Edit: wrong link, thanks Raticus! "CIG-Employees-Talk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company" That's the one.) with a lot of personal rage directed at Derek Smart. Unfortunately, the picture the article paints aligns a lot better with what I'm seeing of Star Citizen than what Chris Roberts likes to tell about the project. The grapevine on Something Awful has also had a number of rather interesting posts that align a lot more with the presentable facts than with Roberts' storytelling.


Another of my favorite defenses. "They said something on the topic sometime in AtV or TftC episode 17 between 115. Check out youtube yourself! You haven't been living under a rock, have you?"

 

[kimifan141]

I have already given up hope on this a long time back , unsubscribed from the newsletter stopped visiting the forums....

If no man's sky had all that hype and failed so badly what are the chances of this game coming out completely ?? i bet the single player comes out after a ton of more years at that point they decide there is no more money and start focusing on a mmo multiplayer part.

 

[~Cross~]

I know I am not entitled to a refund,

Dont think like this. A ToS is NOT enough to deter a refund from a product you've yet to receive. Some AGs will take companies to court that have violated their states consumer protection laws. The EU and the UK also has waaay stronger laws than the US. The moment you mention that you are from an EU nation they will immediately fold.

Sure, they'll always cry in their refund emails that you are literally taking money away from a poor developers pay check when ask for a refund, but despite having legal counsel as one of their executives on a payroll they will NEVER go to court and immediately refund when pressured.

They do not want to go to court. Any sort of loss there would have dire repercussions not just to their funding model, but to crowdsourcing in general. And honestly, I'd think it would only be a good thing if crowdsource companies had to operate like public companies.

 

[KKRT00]

See you in 2020.

But Star Citizen wont release on your PS4 in 2020.

----

But I'd equally love to see your reactions if my perception of Star Citizen being a total trainwreck is closer to the truth than you people's unwavering optimism..

But my stance is not based on optimism. Its based on following development of this game closely and being in software development myself.
I've seen what progress they did this year in almost every part of this, because they showed it. I know also that heavy R&D is very unpredictable and sometimes even if you know that something will take time, the reality just shows you how wrong you were. Or sometimes some really strange issue block full modules for weeks and there is no way to predict them, unless you are psychic.
I also know how big strain on the dev team public builds have.

I think there is even somewhere my post where i wrote that i wish that CitizenCon wasnt in October, but November instead, because they probably wont be able to polish S42 as much as they want. And it seems they didnt.

Was i disappointed by CitizenCon? Yep, even though the V2 planets demo was amazing, i excepted S42 footage. But i can understand the reasons and thats not because i'm optimistic or 'blind'.

 

[Darkstorne]

It clearly needed the delay. I'm fine waiting for this game (Kickstarter backer, but only $40), but judging by the Citizen Con demo it really isn't anywhere near ready.

The environments look gorgeous, but the gunplay, the ragdolls, the AI, the animations, heck even the sense of movement (compare the Dragonfly to Destiny's Sparrow and it'll make you weep) leave so much to be desired, even from a demo as heavily scripted and pre-determined as this one was.

It's pretty clear to me that it's all starting to come together, but it's also pretty clear they still have a lot of work to do on the core mechanics and gameplay loops. SQ42 isn't something they can shove out the door and say "go easy on us" like they can with the MP portion of the game. This is the core package of the game for many of its backers and onlookers, and they've only got one chance to make their first impression.

 

[Burny]

But Star Citizen wont release on your PS4 in 2020.

Are down to mud throwing at other posters? Stay classy.


More of my favorite defenses!

Anybody even with minimal knowledge about game development can assess the significant progress by looking at the released modules and the detailed monthly reports from each development studio," Roberts said. "We have a massive team, working flat out to build something special for everybody. We feel like we've made huge strides and have completed a good portion of the underlying technology that will enable us to make Star Citizen the game that your sources say can't be made."

I never looked at the response too closely, but this is pure gold! Implying that anybody who knows about game development can see how well they're doing. But they haven't shown gameplay after 5 years and 215$ Mio.. What is this? Is it really us who don't know about game development because we would expect more in that context, or is it them for not having managed to produce more?

The emperor's new clothes much?

 

[Raticus79]

I haven't been called "Derek Smart" since the embarassing Citizencon debacle on here.

It would be a more serious insult these days with all the stalking and such.

 

[KKRT00]

Are down to mud throwing at other posters? Stay classy.

He played BF 1 beta on PS4 which means that he doesnt have gaming PC, which means that his previous comment was pure trolling.

 

[Burny]

It would be a more serious insult these days with all the stalking and such.

It would be no less embarassing for the people trying to stifle discussion that way by ridiculing or attacking doubters than it was a year or some months ago.

He played BF 1 beta on PS4 which means that he doesnt have gaming PC, which means that his previous comment was pure trolling.

For a start, you're making the logical leap that because they played the BF1 beta on PS4, they don't have a gaming PC. Unless they said they don't have one, I don't see that you can determine that with any certainty from that. Then your remark has nothing whatsoever to do with the pitiful state of Star Citizen in the first place. Theirs had. Of course they won't be able to play it on their PS4, it's announced as a PC exclusive. That was nowhere up for discussion here. The cake takes your perception of "They don't have a PC, so any negative comment they make about this PC exclusive is them trolling" however.

That's pure system warrior logic and your defensiveness speaks volumes.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Wait we need to own a gaming pc to look forward to a percieved 2020 pc game? I held off buying one but I'd need a new one by then anyway.

 

[vivekTO]

But Star Citizen wont release on your PS4 in 2020.

----


.

What that have to do with anything with what he said? you are really proving the point around here, "the cynicism in defending SC". Good going.

 

[Outrun]

He played BF 1 beta on PS4 which means that he doesnt have gaming PC, which means that his previous comment was pure trolling.

wow,

I played SC on PC, does that mean I cant play Gears of War 4 on my X1? Or Bayonetta 2 on my Wii U?

Seriously man...

 

[Raticus79]

It would be no less embarassing for the people trying to stifle discussion that way by ridiculing doubters than it was a year ago.

Good thing that's not happening now then. (why are we talking about it?)

I don't think a decreased defense in threads like this really indicates any less support for the project. We talked about it in the alpha 2.0 thread a while back - people just get tired of answering the same things repeatedly. The old rhetoric technique of fatiguing the opposition does work. Here you are bringing up the Escapist article again and acting as if Derek didn't have anything to do with it. Are you standing by that position?

Regarding that article:
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/30/what-to-make-of-star-citizen

It is difficult, after all these months of research and having heard from so many people involved with the project, to seriously entertain the notion that Star Citizen is some kind of intentional scam. Hundreds of people all over the world are working hard on it, and have been for years. Although there have been plenty of scandalous allegations, not one of them has checked out in our research – though of course nobody outside of its management team has full visibility on Cloud Imperium’s finances. If Star Citizen goes down – and it yet might – it will likely be because its sheer scope is out of step with the reality of actually making it, or because the money runs out, or because it’s taken too long and its funders have finally withdrawn their support. If there is anything more nefarious than that going on, we have found no convincing evidence of it.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

He played BF 1 beta on PS4 which means that he doesnt have gaming PC, which means that his previous comment was pure trolling.

And you just know that because of ... reasons ... that he doesn't own a gaming PC as well? That comment is quite a new low in this thread. Keep your system warrior mud throwing outside this thread and better even GAF in general.

 

[Burny]

Here you are bringing up the Escapist article again and acting as if Derek didn't have anything to do with it. Are you standing by that position?

Yes, I bring that article up again. Just like I bring up the bullshit Chris Roberts spouted in 2012 as you can see above, because some of you people are simply buying into whatever CIG spouts. That article aligns so damn well with the bullshit CIG is and has been pulling and much better than any "we're just weeks away from showing it" excuses. But the bolded part is peculiar. Did Smart have anything to do with it? Any proof for that? When I read the article a year ago as it was published, there was not a single mention of him in the article. What then linked the article as well as the whole project Star Citizen invariably to Smart, was Chris Roberts embarassing personal attack against Smart, that he seemed to think was fit in place of a proper defense against the allegiations. Which may as well be true as they may be false and were in no way refuted by that tirade from Roberts.

And the impression CIG is and has been making on me, is that it leans very much towards the former.

As for Kotaku's research, what about it? They have no proof that any of the allegiations are false or were false at that point, nor have they conclusive refutation. How would they, as some allegiations involve financials, which CIG haven't disclosed despite promising it initially iirc? As for the allegiations that there was little progress and a lot of effort put into selling ship concepts at that point, that may or may not be true as well. Only CIG is making it look more and more likely that there is more truth behind than not by not showing Squadron 42 progress.

But my stance is not based on optimism. Its based on following development of this game closely and being in software development myself.

Good thing nobody of the doubters is.

 

[Shengar]

He played BF 1 beta on PS4 which means that he doesnt have gaming PC, which means that his previous comment was pure trolling.

That's a fuckton lot presumption and logic leap right there. SC truly bring out the best out of people.
Even if it turned to be true that noface own no PC gaming, this post is still pure assholery.

 

[Jackpot]

'Scam' gets thrown around a lot by detractors and supporters but there are different degrees.

Do I think SC is a deliberate money-swindling scheme waiting to cross some arbitrary threshold when Roberts & Co will go "sucks to be you!" and make a dash for Mexico? Of course not.

But I do think the project has been seriously mismanaged ever since it departed from the initial SQ42 pitch, evidenced in spades by the Kotaku sources. Like, it shouldn't even be in question now.

The closest it comes to scam territory are the convenient lies of omission and the prioritising of new spaceships for people to buy to rake in some extra dough to sustain the bloated development process.

I believe the game will miss all its deadlines and be stuck in long and painful Early Access period that will sour most players.

I also worry that there is a 0.1% chance that at some random point with no forewarning, we'll get articles about staff suddenly departing due to no paychecks and a few days later talks of bankruptcy due to hemorrhaging cashflow.

 

[Onemic]

Is this a surprise to anyone? If we're lucky it'll be released by the end of 2017. The entire game wont be finished until 2018 at the earliest imo.

 

[Shengar]

'Scam' gets thrown around a lot by detractors and supporters but there are different degrees.

Do I think SC is a deliberate money-swindling scheme waiting to cross some arbitrary threshold when Roberts & Co will go "sucks to be you!" and make a dash for Mexico? Of course not.

But I do think the project has been seriously mismanaged ever since it departed from the initial SQ42 pitch, evidenced in spades by the Kotaku sources. Like, it shouldn't even be in question now.

The closest it comes to scam territory are the convenient lies of omission and the prioritising of new spaceships for people to buy to rake in some extra dough to sustain the bloated development process.

I believe the game will miss all its deadlines and be stuck in long and painful Early Access period that will sour most players.

I also worry that there is a 0.1% chance that at some random point with no forewarning, we'll get articles about staff suddenly departing due to no paychecks and a few days later talks of bankruptcy due to hemorrhaging cashflow.

Don't forget the change on their ToS. Regardless of the game other problem, that is indefensible and scummy.

 

[MikeDown]

The closest it comes to scam territory are the convenient lies of omission and the prioritizing of new spaceships for people to buy to rake in some extra dough to sustain the bloated development process.

Regardless of intention, isn't that the definition of a scam though? I mean they continue to miss deadlines, being unable to deliver the portions of the game that they are obligated to develop. A class action lawsuit is only a mater of time, and hopefully backers can recoup some of their losses after Chris has to sell some of his mansions and yachts.

 

[gatti-man]

Oh, I'd love if they did. Maybe I'd be playing this game by then, for which they haven't manage to produce so much as a new trailer in the four years since showing that footage (nope, I don't count a talking head spouting sci fi cliche drivel as trailer). But really, if they stay true to their current base level of quality for their playable output, there'll be little surprise in it for me. Janyk ass broken tech demo gonna janky ass broken tech demo.

But I'd equally love to see your reactions if my perception of Star Citizen being a total trainwreck is closer to the truth than you people's unwavering optimism. The No Man's Sky debacle would look like a kindergarten in comparison and all the premature derision for the doubters... Well.


One thing that won't change for me in any scenario is the impression I've gotten of Chris Roberts. He is full of it.

You may well be right but Chris Roberts deserves credit for the amazing games he's made in the past. He's a proven commodity and bit off more than he can chew but his drive and vision I believe will see this project through to the end. And it will be a game worth experiencing is my opinion.

 

[Raticus79]

Did Smart have anything to do with it? Any proof for that?

Yes. Sep 21, last line:

from https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/42fzet/derekescapistpressfartocontinuelizzy/

When I read the article a year ago as it was published, there was not a single mention of him in the article.

You linked the followup. Here's the original.
Sep 25:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...r-Citizen-Controversy-Reaches-a-Boiling-Point
Ctrl+F Smart.

 

[Burny]

You linked the followup. Here's the original.
Sep 25:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...r-Citizen-Controversy-Reaches-a-Boiling-Point
Ctrl+F Smart.

You're right, I didn't link the original article that prompted Roberts' tirade. Thanks for the correction! But neither did you. Here it is.

Ctrl+F Smart! I made sure as hell that did a year ago and didn't find anything. You'll find that the only mention of him comes from Roberts response they later edited in.

 

[~Cross~]

You may well be right but Chris Roberts deserves credit for the amazing games he's made in the past. He's a proven commodity and bit off more than he can chew but his drive and vision I believe will see this project through to the end. And it will be a game worth experiencing is my opinion.

He deserves credit for at least starting the damn things. Rarely, specially near the end of his original career, did he actually finish the games.

This time there wont be an EA or a Microsoft that will buy them out to finish the games if it all falls apart.

 

[Maledict]

You may well be right but Chris Roberts deserves credit for the amazing games he's made in the past. He's a proven commodity and bit off more than he can chew but his drive and vision I believe will see this project through to the end. And it will be a game worth experiencing is my opinion.

Chris Roberts project management skills have repeatedly been shown to be terrible, in the last few projects he was involved in. Hell, the late one only got finished when he was forced out. And he hasn't been involved in games creation for over a decade, because he wanted to be a film maker. Do you have any idea how much has changed in the time period since he was last involved in games? There's a reason Japan basically blew up during the 7th gen, because what you need to make a AAA game nowadays is so dramatically different to what it used to be.

Chris Roberts still just wants to be a film producer. He's great at selling a story, he's fucking terrible at actually producing a product, and anyone looking at his history should be hugely concerned about the state of star citizen now.

 

[Raticus79]

You're right, I didn't link the original article that prompted Roberts' tirade. Thanks for the correction! But neither did you. Here it is.

Ctrl+F Smart! I made sure as hell that did a year ago and didn't find anything. You'll find that the only mention of him comes from Roberts response they later edited in.

Did you mean to link the one from Oct 5 again?
"Following my recent op-ed, titled "Eject! Eject! Is Star Citizen Going to Crash and Burn?" [...]"

 

[Burny]

Did you mean to link the one from Oct 5 again?
"Following my recent op-ed, titled "Eject! Eject! Is Star Citizen Going to Crash and Burn?" [...]"

Nope, checked and it's exactly the October 6th. (edit: it was October 1st, 6th was their edit) article that I wanted and linked. THAT is what caused Roberts to tick out completely. The October 5th one was just a rehash of Smart's affairs.

 

[Taruranto]

That's a fuckton lot presumption and logic leap right there. SC truly bring out the best out of people.
Even if it turned to be true that noface own no PC gaming, this post is still pure assholery.

Honestly, I am half expecting to be revealed that SC was just a giant social experiment to test how much you can push a fandom devotion and people lack of foresight.

 

[gatti-man]

Chris Roberts project management skills have repeatedly been shown to be terrible, in the last few projects he was involved in. Hell, the late one only got finished when he was forced out. And he hasn't been involved in games creation for over a decade, because he wanted to be a film maker. Do you have any idea how much has changed in the time period since he was last involved in games? There's a reason Japan basically blew up during the 7th gen, because what you need to make a AAA game nowadays is so dramatically different to what it used to be.

Chris Roberts still just wants to be a film producer. He's great at selling a story, he's fucking terrible at actually producing a product, and anyone looking at his history should be hugely concerned about the state of star citizen now.

I've been gaming since 1985 yes I'm aware of how games have changed.

Star Citizen is a pioneering game. It's going to be a learning process. I'm honestly not concerned at all.

 

[Recall]

I've been gaming since 1985 yes I'm aware of how games have changed.

Star Citizen is a pioneering game. It's going to be a learning process. I'm honestly not concerned at all.

Why will it be a pioneering game? Because they told you it is? Money = quality?

What defines it as pioneering?

You know NOTHING until it's released. Until then all you can do is speculate, hope and wish. You know nothing for certain.

 

[WalTech]

Why will it be a pioneering game? Because they told you it is? Money = quality?

What defines it as pioneering?

You know NOTHING until it's released. Until then all you can do is speculate, hope and wish. You know nothing for certain.

It's the most entertaining game ever, and I've never even played it. I paid no money and have gotten hundreds of hours of entertainment from it, which is pretty great when you think about it. What other projects can you say that about?!

 

[~Cross~]

Here's what Rob Irving, one of the original producers at CIG Austin had to say about SC after he jumped ship. Note this is what, 6 months before the Kotaku article.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PLwo3YCY_8

It lines up perfectly with the general tone of the kotaku article and he went ahead and said something like "These sort of rumors dont sprout out of thin air" when talking about the escapist claims. You can tell the guy really wanted to say things but was holding back.

 

[Raticus79]

Nope, checked and it's exactly the October 6th article that I wanted and linked. THAT is what caused Roberts to tick out completely. The October 5th one was just a rehash of Smart's affairs.

Timeline:
Sep 21: Derek says an article is coming up
Sep 25: First Escapist article (the one referencing Derek's stuff): http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...r-Citizen-Controversy-Reaches-a-Boiling-Point
Sep 30: John Keefer from the Escapist sends notice about the second article coming up, giving a short deadline to respond
Oct 1: Chris responds to John 3 hours ahead of the deadline. Escapist claims the response went into junk mail.
Oct 1: Second Escapist article posted without Chris's response. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...alk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company
(see comments section for stuff from Oct 1)
This one is the one that says it has independent anonymous sources. (with the sources eventually challenged based on things like showing a generic building access card as proof when none are used at their offices)
Oct 2: Escapist update re: sourcing - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...ns-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo
Oct 2: Second Escapist article updated with Chris's response
Oct 5: minor update at the top at the second article

There's lots of valid criticism to be made for the project, but it's not like Chris came at Derek out of nowhere. This page I linked earlier has the info people gathered to support the connection to the Oct 1 article - link.

 

[KKRT00]

For a start, you're making the logical leap that because they played the BF1 beta on PS4, they don't have a gaming PC. Unless they said they don't have one, I don't see that you can determine that with any certainty from that. Then your remark has nothing whatsoever to do with the pitiful state of Star Citizen in the first place. Theirs had. Of course they won't be able to play it on their PS4, it's announced as a PC exclusive. That was nowhere up for discussion here. The cake takes your perception of "They don't have a PC, so any negative comment they make about this PC exclusive is them trolling" however.

That's pure system warrior logic and your defensiveness speaks volumes.

I'm sorry, but you just cannot teach me about posting standard when your posts look like this:
" I don't keep up with all the revisionist bullshit implied either by CIG "
" The game or rather the broken ass tech demos"
"was characterized by janky ass vehicle movement, janky ass character movement, sub-par shooting gameplay compared "
"With a 125$ Mio. project that has allegedly been five years into development, this is a downright disgraceful showing."
" And outside of the realm of fappable bullshots and off hands tech demos, everything they have demonstrated, from the flight model, movement, animation etc. (that hasn't gotten any noticeably less janky and broken since Arena Commander in 2014), to their handling of deadlines, breaking of promises and dancing around being honest about the reasons for continuously breaking self imposed ETAs or being forthcoming with new ETAs speaks volumes that they're not able in any form to deliver on their promises of the BDSSE."
And this whole post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=219829310&postcount=310
(thats only 7 pages of this thread)

I know that we have at least 4 CIG employees on GAF and i feel really sorry for them that they have to read posts like yours. They probably feel like shit reading this thread.

----

And you just know that because of ... reasons ... that he doesn't own a gaming PC as well? That comment is quite a new low in this thread. Keep your system warrior mud throwing outside this thread and better even GAF in general.

Thats a new low? Have you not read this thread? And his post was so constructive...

I dont if you know that, but Star Citizen threads are notoriously spammed by one drive posters, mostly by console warriors, but not exclusively, that just shit on the project or just call it scam, or call names developers.
Its getting out hands every time and i'm sorry, but i got quite sensitive regarding this.
Its so disrespectful for CIG employees.

 

[joecanada]

The idea that people think you're entitled to a refund for a crow-funded project blows my mind. It's a risk, and you accept that when you invest your money. Removing your money before they've released the final product is completely illogical.

Crowdfunding is based on the promise that you are getting something previously promised. delaying the product indefinitely does not qualify as that promise, especially when you had implicitly stated release dates. I don't support crowdfunding in general because it's not real investing, but even I know that you can't just do what you want with the money and expect people to just ride along blindly. If they want a refund they should ask for one.

 

[GankzyMcfly]

The idea that people think you're entitled to a refund for a crow-funded project blows my mind. It's a risk, and you accept that when you invest your money. Removing your money before they've released the final product is completely illogical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VltHlKsGgvM&feature=share

Old terms of service stated users would be eligible for a refund if Star Citizen was 18 months past its 2014 deadline...so why wouldn't/shouldn't people feel entitled? For me it would be illogical to not request a refund at this point...we're closing in on 2017...