-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Let's Play Zelda: Breath of the Wild on Nintendo Switch
- Thread starter Equanimity
- Start date
Xdrive05
Member
Watch the Treehouse video. That's the only v1.0 of the game we know about. I didn't notice any frame drops in tall grass in that video, not like in the demo build they were letting people play on the floor. Treehouse clearly ran way way better, and was likely the final code.
It looks like they just ported the E3 demo to Switch so that players wouldn't spoil the game, which could have happened if they let them run the same final version as the Treehouse.
I can't fault DF for doing an analysis of the floor demo; that's all Nintendo gave us access to. But it's clearly not the most current build of the game.
Wishmaster92
Member
It's never that simple, especially when you had Aonuma saying it was "Actual gameplay on Wii U". How can we know any better?
I mean just look at the 2014 e3 trailer thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=834785
Good majority thought this was possible on the wii u(me included) and that Nintendo were wizards.
forknknife
Banned
It's never that simple, especially when you had Aonuma saying it was "Actual gameplay on Wii U". How can we know any better?
I mean just look at the 2014 e3 trailer thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=834785
Good majority thought this was possible on the wii u(me included) and that Nintendo were wizards.
WAT
The graphics look a lot better in that target render that Nintendo said it was actual gameplay. Not only that, but the actual result in Zelda looks empty, foggy and with low-res textures in lots of places. The polycount is not good either, you can check that anytime link is climbing a man-made structure in the game.
That is a big disapointment to me. I look very forward to Zelda and was expecting Nintendo to show they can do a massive open world game similar to Witcher 3, but it is obvious they can not. Actually, monolith could do it but still this Zelda is taking how much? 5 years?
Anyway for me this is the confirmation that Nintendo is still unable to cope with the change to HD. I cannot see them creating a game as complex as Witcher III, Skyrim or even games like Uncharted 4 or Last of Us.
That is a big disapointment to me. I look very forward to Zelda and was expecting Nintendo to show they can do a massive open world game similar to Witcher 3, but it is obvious they can not. Actually, monolith could do it but still this Zelda is taking how much? 5 years?
Anyway for me this is the confirmation that Nintendo is still unable to cope with the change to HD. I cannot see them creating a game as complex as Witcher III, Skyrim or even games like Uncharted 4 or Last of Us.
It's never that simple, especially when you had Aonuma saying it was "Actual gameplay on Wii U". How can we know any better?
I mean just look at the 2014 e3 trailer thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=834785
Good majority thought this was possible on the wii u(me included) and that Nintendo were wizards.
1080p/60 for both Wii U and Switch confirmed
Comfort Jones
Banned
It's never that simple, especially when you had Aonuma saying it was "Actual gameplay on Wii U". How can we know any better?
I mean just look at the 2014 e3 trailer thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=834785
Good majority thought this was possible on the wii u(me included) and that Nintendo were wizards.
This whole debacle plus that rather mediocre presentation has turned me off on buying a Switch so badly.
It'll still be the same thing with a n announcement video looking cool and then realities of game development and limits settling in
Toadthemushroom
Member
I think that early, janky 2014 Game Awards Footage confirmed that the E3 2014 footage was more in-engine concept gameplay rather than in-game.
Bit similar to the Wii U Zelda tech demo from E3 2011 which recreated a scene from Twilight Princess. That was running off a Wii U but I doubt the in-game visuals would reflect those.
Bit similar to the Wii U Zelda tech demo from E3 2011 which recreated a scene from Twilight Princess. That was running off a Wii U but I doubt the in-game visuals would reflect those.
It's not impossible. Day one patches are a thing. Whether or not they bother is another question entirely.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Yeah, it's most likely gone gold already. Question is whether Nintendo will do a day one update to improve resolution. Probably not a priority anyway.
Interfectum
Member
The review thread for this game has the potential to send GAF into a tailspin of horror.
-shadow-
Member
Link has changed a lot since the first teaser. Actually looks like Link now.
Everyone always assume a downgrade is some sort of evil scam but really i think it's about a dev, at some point, deciding "do we keep the graphics like that or do we allow the game to offer bigger scale of environment" etc..
Those thread always give the impression a dev is not competent, or just evil liars wanting to steal your money with bad graphics..
They just get the best presentation they wan on an hardware with the targeted gameplay..
Also i'm wondering why nobody seems to realize the game still has a painting, pastel like presentation like they tried in Swyward Sword. That's why those texture, out of context look washed out ugly, but they work in the general presentation of the game, at least to me.
See this gif for exemple
You can say it's washed out, there is no detail in the grass anymore compared to the reveal or anything. But the truth is that it's soft and fluffy as fuck and that's the look they want obviously.
Those thread always give the impression a dev is not competent, or just evil liars wanting to steal your money with bad graphics..
They just get the best presentation they wan on an hardware with the targeted gameplay..
Also i'm wondering why nobody seems to realize the game still has a painting, pastel like presentation like they tried in Swyward Sword. That's why those texture, out of context look washed out ugly, but they work in the general presentation of the game, at least to me.
See this gif for exemple
You can say it's washed out, there is no detail in the grass anymore compared to the reveal or anything. But the truth is that it's soft and fluffy as fuck and that's the look they want obviously.
forknknife
Banned
Everyone always assume a downgrade is some sort of evil scam but really i think it's about a dev, at some point, deciding "do we keep the graphics like that or do we allow the game to offer bigger scale of environment" etc..
Those thread always give the impression a dev is not competent, or just evil liars wanting to steal your money with bad graphics..
They just get the best presentation they wan on an hardware with the targeted gameplay..
Also i'm wondering why nobody seems to realize the game still has a painting, pastel like presentation like they tried in Swyward Sword. That's why those texture, out of context look washed out ugly, but they work in the general presentation of the game, at least to me.
See this gif for exemple
You can say it's washed out, there is no detail in the grass anymore compared to the reveal or anything. But the truth is that it's soft and fluffy as fuck and that's the look they want obviously.
What are you saying man? Obviously you don't know anything about good art...
I'm really happy with this - the styling was off in that reveal, I found. Also can I use this as an excuse to post that Link shivering gif? Okay great thanks.
darkazcura
Member
Complex in what sense? Purely graphically?
Witcher III is a PS4/One game so obviously BOTW was not going to reach that level. Completely unfair comparison and really disingenuous.
Skyrim? I mean, okay. Personally I feel BOTW looks 5x better to my eyes than the PS3/360 version of Skyrim. You using the term complex is pretty vague here. I'll take BOTW every day of the week over that game graphically and gameplay wise. Plus, isn't BOTW's map bigger than Skyrim's? Again, what do you mean by complexity? Are we talking realism here?
Also..won't get into Uncharted 4 and Last of Us comparisons. Those are linear, purely narrative focused games. Again, one of them is from the PS4/One generation so not even sure why you are making that comparison in the first place. Nintendo is probably never going to make a game in the style of the Uncharteds and Skyrims of the world. That doesn't mean they are incapable of it. They just don't prefer that art style, and this has nothing to do with "complexity."
Jimmyfenix
Member
It's never that simple, especially when you had Aonuma saying it was "Actual gameplay on Wii U". How can we know any better?
I mean just look at the 2014 e3 trailer thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=834785
Good majority thought this was possible on the wii u(me included) and that Nintendo were wizards.
Aonuma learning from todd Howard
Care to point out where TW3 and Skyrim were offering large physics based sandboxes with complex systems driven gameplay in addition to high levels of interactivity with the actual world itself as opposed to pretty backgrounds because i sure didn't experience that playing through them or is graphical flash the depth of what you interpret as "complexity" in regards to TW3. Skyrim.... sure if you say so.
LordOfChaos
Member
It's never that simple, especially when you had Aonuma saying it was "Actual gameplay on Wii U". How can we know any better?
I mean just look at the 2014 e3 trailer thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=834785
Good majority thought this was possible on the wii u(me included) and that Nintendo were wizards.
Beyond textures and sharpness getting a downgrade, it's weird to me how the Wii U builds all looked so washed out. It's a less powerful system, sure, but they're working with the same colour palette.
Whenever I saw that brought up it was always responded to with it's supposed to look like that, it's the art direction, etc, but the new Switch gameplay all shows a much more colourful game.
I had been wondering if the capture tool for the Wii U just had some RGB setting misalignments, but that doesn't seem right as Nintendo had no trouble showing their colourful other Wii U games.
eyeball_kid
Member
When I was talking about "washed out", I was referring to the desaturation of color in the more recent builds. There was always some desaturation off in the distance to simulate atmospheric effects, but more recent footage has even close-up grass and Link himself looking desaturated (which you can see in screenshots on previous pages), as if someone dumped in some white to all the paint.
I haven't heard anyone talk about "evil scams" so I think you're being a bit hyperbolic there. But either the original footage was a target render / "something to aim for", or they purposefully showed something they knew they couldn't achieve to get hype. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they wanted to achieve what they showed at E3 2014, but once they hit the limits of the Wii U and Switch hardware (or their engine), they had to dial it down.
I think it's a case where Nintendo's business objectives (hybrid, reduced performance hardware) and their creative objectives (lush, Miyazaki-style open world with physics and complex systems) are not in sync.
LordOfChaos
Member
Agreed, and I hope trying to get Zelda BoTW to run on the Wii U is a lesson to them in going quite so low on specs. Nintendo fans will defend their platforms till the end of time and say it's not important as long as they make good games, but the proof is in the pudding for the Wii U build, with short months to go.
LegendofLex
Member
This was a translation issue. The Japanese post said something more to the effect of the scene actually running on a Wii U and being representative of the kinds of things you'll be able to do in the game.
Milly Osworth
Member
Nintendo are masters of animation.
LMAO... NO
DAREALGUMMY
Member
Won't bother me. I played it at E3 and had so much fun with the 40 minutes I had. I know this game will be amazing. Keep in mind this was without any of the story elements we saw in the trailer. I'm so ready.
I can't tell when people are joking at this point.
Given the poster's other sincere posts regarding this topic, this is a serious comment.
I don't even mean to say "this is bad," it's just I keep seeing people post things in relation to Switch titles or Nintendo in general that are unremarkable, but postured as though they were absolute show-stoppers.
Milly Osworth
Member
Why the fook would that be a joke? Did I walk too far into the pixelcounter wasteland or something?
Im glad Im not that far up my own ass, it must be a mostly disappointing life.
Respectfully, the way you flaunted the animation in particular just seems off to someone who's seen a lot of well handled horseback-riding animation in games over the last ten years or so. there's no need to insult anyone.
I would guess it's what digital foundry said, it's not the grass, but the depth of field. So it's rendering grass while rendering something in the foreground and background, there just happena to always be grass so people think grass slows it down.
That said, some frame rate drops could be random
Milly Osworth
Member
Haha, you have seen some things.
I think Nintendo are masterful at animation. In fact they are. Thats the problem with pixelcounters, it must be the absolute best done so far, or it is shit. Also, show me the horse riding animations that are so much better than in Botw.
Actually dont. Lets live and let live, if pixelcounting makes you happy then thats good for you. Ill live in my world where I think that gif looks absolutely amazing.
Explain.
mr teaspoon
Member
I think your misunderstanding of subjectivity, whether willful or not, disqualifies you from this conversation.
Milly Osworth
Member
Yeah I dont know what that word means 😞
Well he did say something along the lines of "See those mountains? You can go there!". It's similar to Todd's "See a mountain, you can climb it" meme.
Everyone always assume a downgrade is some sort of evil scam but really i think it's about a dev, at some point, deciding "do we keep the graphics like that or do we allow the game to offer bigger scale of environment" etc..
Those thread always give the impression a dev is not competent, or just evil liars wanting to steal your money with bad graphics..
They just get the best presentation they wan on an hardware with the targeted gameplay..
Also i'm wondering why nobody seems to realize the game still has a painting, pastel like presentation like they tried in Swyward Sword. That's why those texture, out of context look washed out ugly, but they work in the general presentation of the game, at least to me.
See this gif for exemple
You can say it's washed out, there is no detail in the grass anymore compared to the reveal or anything. But the truth is that it's soft and fluffy as fuck and that's the look they want obviously.
Yeah I don't care about what this game looked like years ago, it looks fucking amazing today from art style perspective. I just hope it's a solid 30fps with no big drops and I'm happy (and also 1080p rez would be really good).
You're in a Digital Foundry thread, which is where tech discussions like this are supposed to take place. I'm sorry you've taken this personally. Games that I've played that jumped to mind were Shadow of the Colossus, Metal Gear Solid V, and Red Dead Redemption. Those were done well, and both artistically and in terms of the tech behind them I think compare favorably with the BotW horseback riding.
And no, I'm not saying "best ever or it's shit." I made the point to say otherwise. You're projecting a lot of frustrations that have nothing to do with me or my comments here.
Milly Osworth
Member
You said my comment about the animation being masterful must be a joke. Or were you merely trying to say its slightly worse than some other games you mentioned? Thats a different story.
Ever seen a post where someone posts an image and sarcastically quips about it? Your post looked like that, and the animation seemed standard enough that you could easily have been joking. I've seen hours of the Treehouse segments, so I know the range of transition animation-work they put into BotW.
Milly Osworth
Member
You should watch the whole treehouse segment then, they show all the horse animation and Link jumping on them in 10 different ways. Anyway I have posted more about horse animation now than I planned to do in a lifetime.
Or that was an old version.
LordOfChaos
Member
I'd love to retract that if a newer Wii U build shows the punchy colours the Switch does, but I'm just going off what we've seen. It'll take till release to find out for sure, but the last Wii U builds we saw had the weird wash-out, while none of the Switch gameplay did.
Toadthemushroom
Member
It's almost certainly down to how Wii U only outputs limited-range RGB, which has been an issue since launch day and something Nintendo still hasn't fixed at the OS level yet. Looked fine and vibrant on my decade-old HDTV, but on my monitor it looks washed out.