Or perhaps different people have different tastes to you, and that doesn't make them wrong because you are not life's protagonist and therefore you are not automatically infallibly right?
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Why is "Bethesda jank" so readily dismissed? It's insufferable
- Thread starter Fahzgoolin
- Start date
Or perhaps different people have different tastes to you, and that doesn't make them wrong because you are not life's protagonist and therefore you are not automatically infallibly right?
Are you confusing them with Obsidian?
Bethesda games are becoming more and more rigidly scripted.
Other opinions exist man.
Somebody not being arsed to argue with some randomer on the Internet who has blatantly already made up his mind and who is closed to any actual discussion doesn't mean they have nothing to say. It means they know a waste of time when they see one.
Don't be childish.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
^ ^ ^
BouncyFrag
Member
I'm more bothered by the horrible implementation of a fully voiced protagonist and god awful main quest in FO4.
PeskyToaster
Member
because people love them and have fun despite of it? In some cases because of the jank. I believe an applicable phrase would be the whole of the game is greater than the sum of it's individual parts. They are hugely popular games and it goes beyond the individual brands (Fallout/Elder Scrolls) but to the developer level. Fallout 3 did way more than any other Fallout game and basically put the series at CoD level of recognition. Not everyone is a weird nerd who needs to be fully immersed in a game to like it.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
ScaryShark
Banned
I'm surprised it didn't slot in at #10 on the overall GOTY after this discussion.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Buggy games don't bother me that much as long as the game can actually run.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
This is why I fucking hate Bethesda and their RPGs. Now you're a weird nerd if you approach a role-playing game with the intent to role-play beyond choosing how you kill shit and in what order, lol. I know what you mean tho, I'm just sayin
Tavernacle12
Member
I don't think Horizon or the new Zelda are equivalent to Fallout or Scrolls (which you seem to realise too). Bethesda attempts to create a living breathing world with tons of interlocking systems, and while the scope is there in Horizon or Zelda I think there'd be far more going on under the hood in a Bethesda game.
Rushersauce
Banned
Oh COME ON! It's not "blatantly" when I had played all those games and had made up my mind... I love Morrowind and Bethesda has only gone downhill ever since.
And closed to any actual discussion? It's Bethesda fans that dismiss any criticism directed towards Bethesda games and say "well, I like those games lol"
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
I have a blindspot to the jank because I started playing this series with Morrowind on PC back in like 2002.
If anything it feels like the series is getting less janky over time! Hell the Steam Workshop is a godsend after jumping through the hoops required to get mods working with Oblivion and Morrowind.
Fallout fans might have a different perspective....still can't get into any of those games
If anything it feels like the series is getting less janky over time! Hell the Steam Workshop is a godsend after jumping through the hoops required to get mods working with Oblivion and Morrowind.
Fallout fans might have a different perspective....still can't get into any of those games
I think it depends on how much you fiddled with the in-game objects. Game remembers the location of every single item and once the save file exceeds 6mb(?) it starts becoming a shit show.
Iirc I hit the slowdown after 16 hours.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
It would have if Austin had gone for it, but he was putting all his eggs in the Invisible, Inc basket.
Deadpool_X
Banned
Because everything that happens in the other 100 hours outside of the jank is so, so good.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I'm listening to it and I agree with Jeff. These games aren't improving. Fallout 4 has been worse for me than their other games. I get that my experience might be different than others, but man...I'm just so discouraged to read such positive impressions all over the internet while acting like a lot of these bugs are tolerable.
They aren't for me. I think that's the issue. I just can't tolerate it anymore. I'm amazed consumers are okay with it.
I love how when sharing your own opinion, people like to point out that other opinions exist. lol Yes, I know. I'm simply sharing mine.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Why is it so really dismissed?
Developers that have been supporting the strain of games they create are few, of the few that do, the ones that are good or worth mentioning in the same sentence are even less..
As upset as you might be over the fuck ups in the games that grate at you; you acknowledge they are one of the few consistently putting big money into big single player RPGs of this style. That's why I've been okay with it for the most part, i just wish Fallout didn't look so terrible... they own id Software for fucks sake.
Developers that have been supporting the strain of games they create are few, of the few that do, the ones that are good or worth mentioning in the same sentence are even less..
As upset as you might be over the fuck ups in the games that grate at you; you acknowledge they are one of the few consistently putting big money into big single player RPGs of this style. That's why I've been okay with it for the most part, i just wish Fallout didn't look so terrible... they own id Software for fucks sake.
Fallout 4 is one of my favorite games of the generation, but I wouldn't give it a critical score higher than a 3.5/5 because of all of the awful bugs and lack of polish. There is so much wrong with the game structure itself, but the highs I had with the game were so fun I can't ignore it. Bethesda games are uniquely theirs and it comes with a price I suppose.
Yes, you've made up your mind, that is point. There is no sense in arguing with a wall.
Basically, nobody makes sandbox RPGs like Bethesda's, at least not in the mainstream market.
The degree of role playing and just overall freedom possible in Skyrim is still beyond that of Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Witcher 3, or any other big-budget open-world RPG. A lot of the mainstream audience that got it to like 30 million copies sold probably thinks of it as fantasy GTA rather than comparing it to other RPGs. That's probably what other developers who "want the Skyrim audience" keep missing. I've been thinking recently that the real tragedy here is that no developer has really tried to make a better medieval/fantasy-themed sandbox game. Even if they did, I doubt it would have the immersive sim elements Bethesda games do. Kingdom Come is coming out but that's looks like it's being made with far fewer resources (though much more advanced tech).
That said, Fallout 4 does offer decidedly less freedom in the role playing area.
The degree of role playing and just overall freedom possible in Skyrim is still beyond that of Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Witcher 3, or any other big-budget open-world RPG. A lot of the mainstream audience that got it to like 30 million copies sold probably thinks of it as fantasy GTA rather than comparing it to other RPGs. That's probably what other developers who "want the Skyrim audience" keep missing. I've been thinking recently that the real tragedy here is that no developer has really tried to make a better medieval/fantasy-themed sandbox game. Even if they did, I doubt it would have the immersive sim elements Bethesda games do. Kingdom Come is coming out but that's looks like it's being made with far fewer resources (though much more advanced tech).
That said, Fallout 4 does offer decidedly less freedom in the role playing area.
Rushersauce
Banned
Bring the arguments and do tell. I asked you and I gladly read your points and shoot them down or not
Yeah it crazy if any other games shipped with this many bugs and problems they would be destroyed. Not to mention Fallout 4 is worse than New Vegas in pretty much every way despite Fallout 4 being released several years on a new set of consoles where the standards for games are much higher. Its one of those cases where problems like this get worse over time instead of better with each new release and people seem to just shrug it off. The double standard for these games is quite infuriating.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I'm still not clear on what Bethesda does that no one else does.
I mean, yeah, I know about stuff like moving wheels of cheese and having their locations persist or whatever. And I can totally see the ambition and openness of New Vegas, which has a level of complexity, choice & consequence, and overall craft that justifies its jank. But for something like Fallout 4, what's the x-factor that I'm missing?
I mean, yeah, I know about stuff like moving wheels of cheese and having their locations persist or whatever. And I can totally see the ambition and openness of New Vegas, which has a level of complexity, choice & consequence, and overall craft that justifies its jank. But for something like Fallout 4, what's the x-factor that I'm missing?
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Keep telling yourself that.
I don't even need to tell you to, because you will. It's literally the ONLY reason you and others still say this ridiculous shit despite Fallout 4 being the single most trashed game on GAF this generation besides No Man's Sky.
It's transparent. Every time someone defends Fallout once in a thread, or says "oh well I like it anyway", you or someone else drop this little nugget of shit on the thread, painting with as broad a brush as you can muster, all the while expecting nobody to tell you how that shit fuckin' stinks.
I've literally made my point in this thread and you hand waved it away. Kind of like what you accuse fans of Bethesda's games of doing when it comes to criticism lol.
Rushersauce
Banned
Funny thing is, NV is Obsidian's creation.
SmiteOfHand
Member
I wonder if the it just doesn't bug me, or consequence of the game they make crowd show the same level of understanding when the shoe is on the other foot in engaging something that does annoy them.
Considering discussions on controversial design decisions such as encumbrance, or stuff like the controls in TLG I am not so convinced.
Considering discussions on controversial design decisions such as encumbrance, or stuff like the controls in TLG I am not so convinced.
probably a bit more than infinitesimal lol
I'm in the same boat. For the most part I felt Witcher 3 pretty much stole Bethesda's lunch money
Zombie James
Banned
Timestamp?
Rushersauce
Banned
Well please tell me all these other games that do everything Bethesda games do better, I want to play them.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Fallout 4 runs far better than New Vegas, and has much less bugs. Part of that is likely because there's not nearly as much going on in 4.
RockManiac44R
Neo Member
These all sound like very personal problems. I've never encountered game breaking bugs like these in any Bethesda game before.
With the "-Enemies detecting me through walls when sneaking" complaint; Did you know that the AI in the Bethesda games are designed to detect sound? Even through walls, if you are carrying a bunch of stuff and wearing heavy armor, there is a good chance you will get detected.
With the "-Enemies detecting me through walls when sneaking" complaint; Did you know that the AI in the Bethesda games are designed to detect sound? Even through walls, if you are carrying a bunch of stuff and wearing heavy armor, there is a good chance you will get detected.
Bethestha games have a very high level of interactivity. That comes with jank (can't speak for fallout 4 as i haven't played it).
More polished games, like the witcher, or more "actionny" open world games have nowhere near that.
And many pick possibilities over something super polished. Look at sucess of games like ARK and other survival games, game like Arma or even the sims. If you are ambitious enough with what you attempt, people will forgive jank.
More polished games, like the witcher, or more "actionny" open world games have nowhere near that.
And many pick possibilities over something super polished. Look at sucess of games like ARK and other survival games, game like Arma or even the sims. If you are ambitious enough with what you attempt, people will forgive jank.
Stupid auto-correct!
RipperGrim
Member
I'm pretty sure it gets brought up all the time, just go look at the fallout 4 threads when the game was revealed, especially the screenshot threads. Plenty of complaints but honestly it's become part of the game, those bugs have just added to the random chaos and emergent gameplay. Shit happens and everyone has their own Bethesda game story to tell because of the sure randomness of it.
I would say as well that it gets accepted because the modding scene behind the games is still massive and if that system necessitates that bugs exist then Bethesda and their fans will gladly accept the price.
I would say as well that it gets accepted because the modding scene behind the games is still massive and if that system necessitates that bugs exist then Bethesda and their fans will gladly accept the price.
PeskyToaster
Member
Most people don't approach RPGs this way. When the game presents a question or choice they say "What do I want to do?" rather than "What would my character do?". Bethesda games cater to the first option because you ask it "What can I do" and the game says "Anything you want." The fun is in the emergent adventures people have rather than playing a specific role and the jank benefits that in many ways.
Look at the DayZ mod too, the granddaddy of them all. Janky as fuck but damn was it fun. I guess you mentioned ARMA but I only played the DayZ mod part lol
Unaha-Closp
Member
At this point I've played 100's of hours in Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 4. The Jank is Real. I fully agree but it doesn't stop me enjoying my time with their games - right up until Fallout 4 that is. They get away with it because people, including myself, keep buying their games. I'm skeptical now, cough Fallout 4 was a bummer, but it wasn't the jank that got me that way. If there is no jank is it a Bethesda Open World Game? That's a riddle for the ages.