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FFT War of the Lions translation sacrifices readability for pretentious prose
- Thread starter fvng
- Start date
I mean, it's not archaic. That's the thing. It's not even hard to understand.
encephalon
Member
"Blame yourself or God" is almost literally the original Japanese of that line.
This isn't an endorsement of the original translation, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
This isn't an endorsement of the original translation, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
BassForever
Member
I'll take over written/proses over poorly translated gibberish
Revolutionary
Member
I didn't find it pretentious, I found it completely unnecessary.
"Tough. Blame yourself or God" to "Forgive me, tis your birth that wrongs you" changes Delita's character from the very beginning of the game. He goes from a stone cold mercenary to an apologetic oaf in my eyes. It's just hard to stomach for me.
One day I'll give WotL a fair shake but I've been stopped at that scene every single time I tried lol
"Tough. Blame yourself or God" to "Forgive me, tis your birth that wrongs you" changes Delita's character from the very beginning of the game. He goes from a stone cold mercenary to an apologetic oaf in my eyes. It's just hard to stomach for me.
One day I'll give WotL a fair shake but I've been stopped at that scene every single time I tried lol
Hot Coldman
Banned
I dunno, this looks pretty cool to me. Not a fan of ye olde english localisations usually (Frog is infinitely better in Chrono Trigger DS), but this seems fun.
Perhaps your level of exposure to classic literature influences your experience? I much prefer WOTL even if I think it is a little too flowery occasionally.
In general I think it is a preference thing. Kind of like some prefer direct translations over localisations.
I think Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together hit the sweet spot of being straight forward enough to be easily understood by everyone while also having plenty of flavour. Also be sure to check it out if you enjoy the flowery battle incantations.
Bonus
In general I think it is a preference thing. Kind of like some prefer direct translations over localisations.
I think Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together hit the sweet spot of being straight forward enough to be easily understood by everyone while also having plenty of flavour. Also be sure to check it out if you enjoy the flowery battle incantations.
Bonus
I loved the stylized localization in some of the other Ivalice games. Vagrant Story and FFXII were both great. I'm totally on board with that type of localization when done well.
However FFT:WotL simply fails to do it well. Its writing is stilted and overwrought in a way that distracts from the game - in my opinion, more so than the original translation, for all its flaws.
However FFT:WotL simply fails to do it well. Its writing is stilted and overwrought in a way that distracts from the game - in my opinion, more so than the original translation, for all its flaws.
Primethius
Banned
I don't really have an issue with any of the examples provided.
Some of it certainly is archaic. "Mislike", "envenomed", "baseborn" and "fain" are called out as such in the dictionary.
It might not be what would actually have been written in the past, but its definitely looking to evoke the language of Shakespeare/King James Bible in order to gain some of their sense of age and grandeur.
I agree its not generally hard to understand, though I suspect quite a few people would have to guess "fain" from the context
dragonlife
Member
All those examples are pretty average to me (though mislike is new to me). I never finished WOTL, but I loved what I read and appreciated everything about it. Same for Let Us Cling Together.
I never had to re-read or anything like that *shrug*.
I never had to re-read or anything like that *shrug*.
Pretty sure FFXII uses fain too. I honestly don't have a problem with it. I love when works use language to create a grounded sense of time/place, and I've never found WotL hard to understand or flowery, it just kind of *works*. It probably helps that I'm a linguistics nerd.
Ooh cool.
mcz117chief
Member
they all sound fine to me. I played the PSP version about half a year ago and I had no trouble with the text.
Well no, the story would be incomprehensible if it were true to Old English. I believe you mean that it is not authentic to Early Modern English, which is what it's actually trying to sound like a stereotype of.
Also that bit of nerdiness aside (it was really just an excuse to post that Beowulf reading), none of the lines you posted seems particularly egregious to me. "What news have you" in particularly is something I'm pretty sure I've heard used in other mediums before.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
There are a few bits I like better in the original, but overall WoTL is a huge improvement and actually makes sense.
TetraGenesis
Member
Oh, I disagree. WotL's localization is deliberate and specific and establishes a world more distinct than most FFs.
You can argue it's effectiveness at times, but the localization is as much a character as Ramza. I love that about it. Ivalice is so well realized.
You can argue it's effectiveness at times, but the localization is as much a character as Ramza. I love that about it. Ivalice is so well realized.
If loving a game that dares to write above an eighth grade reading level is wrong, then we stand together in sin, my friend.
cubicle47b
Member
I really like the War of the Lions translation. It's one of the things that really sets the game apart and makes it feel like its own world. The original translation was terrible.
Do not touch Covenant of the Plume with a ten foot pole, OP.
And now I know that the "Agents are go!" from Elite Beat Agents is grammatically correct, nice.
LurkerPrime
Member
WOTL's translation is a bit dense at times, but it never struck me as a bad translation; quite the opposite, really. It gives the FFT world its own distinct feeling purely through dialog. Like, it is perhaps a little wordy, but I think that suits the game considering its theatrical flair.
Unfortunately I don't remember enough of vanilla FFT's translation to really compare it in any meaningful way.
Keep in mind he probably has a really monstrous demon voice at that point.
I think they both do a great job with dialog, giving their respective games a distinct feel that's different from other games--more than just serviceable, it is distinct.
Unfortunately I don't remember enough of vanilla FFT's translation to really compare it in any meaningful way.
Keep in mind he probably has a really monstrous demon voice at that point.
LUCT is exactly what I was rushing into this thread to compare it to. But you brought examples, so you win!Perhaps your level of exposure to classic literature influences your experience? I much prefer WOTL even if I think it is a little too flowery occasionally.
In general I think it is a preference thing. Kind of like some prefer direct translations over localisations.
I think Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together hit the sweet spot of being straight forward enough to be easily understood by everyone while also having plenty of flavour. Also be sure to check it out if you enjoy the flowery battle incantations.
Bonus
I think they both do a great job with dialog, giving their respective games a distinct feel that's different from other games--more than just serviceable, it is distinct.
LordKasual
Banned
ITT people don't like reading above an 8th grade level?
Playing these types of games when I was younger is the reason I never struggled with reading or English in school.
Playing these types of games when I was younger is the reason I never struggled with reading or English in school.
I completely agree and it's part of the reason I skip most cutscenes and dialogue in WOTL. FFT is probably my top RPG but I wish there was a definitive version of the game that didn't have a bad translation riddled with typos, a pretentious translation, slow downs, or the mobile ports that purposely speed the game's speed to compensate for the lag making it look like you have haste on all the time. I would prefer the old translation with just the typos fixed and certain words translated properly, with the added WOTL content, and the PS1 gameplay/speed.
Haha that was cringe worthy. Especially the voice acting.
Synless
Member
There is no way that isn't a nod. Speaking of Tactics Ogre, I finally picked this up for my PSP. I am pretty excited for it too.Perhaps your level of exposure to classic literature influences your experience? I much prefer WOTL even if I think it is a little too flowery occasionally.
In general I think it is a preference thing. Kind of like some prefer direct translations over localisations.
I think Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together hit the sweet spot of being straight forward enough to be easily understood by everyone while also having plenty of flavour. Also be sure to check it out if you enjoy the flowery battle incantations.
Bonus
Neither of them are wrong. Both of them would have been used in the eras the game is trying to evoke.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Five pages and no mention of the battle quotes? That's what I missed the most in the WotL retranslation -- they outright removed them!
much like cringe.
LousyTactician
Neo Member
Uh, I don't claim to be an expert in Medieval Literature. But from my experience with a college course on the subject, if it was 'true old English' the dialogue would be incomprehensible to a modern speaker. If we're judging every fantasy story that has eloquent dialogue off of how accurately it replicates 'yee olde english', then virtually no modern examples (that have any mass appeal at least) succeed.
I don't think the intention of the translation was to give dialogue that is 100% authentic to 'yee olde times', but to give the feel of an old, medieval fantasy world. On that end, I think WoTL strikes a pretty solid balance between form and function.
So... You admit it's not difficult to understand the dialogue?
Okay, I guess one's mileage is going to vary on how much they like flowery language, but the examples you present in this thread don't seem all that egregious. I've seen more overbearing examples of flowery language in even stuff like Game of Thrones.
Five pages and no mention of the battle quotes? That's what I missed the most in the WotL retranslation -- they outright removed them!
Ice3 hahaha
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Five pages and no mention of the battle quotes? That's what I missed the most in the WotL retranslation -- they outright removed them!
This and the sped up animations (or slowdown on the psp version) are my only complaints with WoTL.
humansarehorses
Member
If you can't tell which word in those quotes is slang, sure, give it a go!
jimmypython
Member
They should release war of lion in PS4 with all slowdown fixed
Pretty much. I'm not a particularly big fan of flowery dialogue myself, but I thought it was pretty fun in WotL. It was easy enough to follow and I felt like it fit the world.
Lmao
Teletraan1
Banned
Tough....Don't blame us.
Blame yourself or God.
Blame yourself or God.
LousyTactician
Neo Member
Regardless of one's stance on WoTL's translation, I think we can all agree that Chapter 7 of Super Paper Mario houses the most accurate, readable, and compelling use of old english in the context of a modern video game.
As an English Major in undergrad, to be honest, WotL (and FFXIV for that matter) never really bothered me that much. In FFXIV's case, you'll find that 2.0 tends to ramble on, but Heavensward (even in NPC conversations) use the language to deliver some actually pretty clever humor.
If you want to see what a true sacrifice of readability is, try reading some drafts of Beowulf.
If you want to see what a true sacrifice of readability is, try reading some drafts of Beowulf.
LordKasual
Banned
Regardless of one's stance on WoTL's translation, I think we can all agree that Chapter 7 of Super Paper Mario houses the most accurate, readable, and compelling use of old english in the context of a modern video game.
GOAT lol
Transistor
Banned
Sorry, OP, but the WotL translation is one of the best I've ever seen. It really does a fantastic job of breathing life into the script.
badcrumble
Member
It's really not "pretentious," just stylized. And I literally couldn't follow all of the political story with the original's shoddy translation. WotL is a huge improvement on all fronts except for doing away with spell cries.
harriet the spy
Member
Every time I see pictures of this it makes me sad. I wanted to like it so much but the excessive grinding really turned me off of it.Perhaps your level of exposure to classic literature influences your experience? I much prefer WOTL even if I think it is a little too flowery occasionally.
In general I think it is a preference thing. Kind of like some prefer direct translations over localisations.
I think Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together hit the sweet spot of being straight forward enough to be easily understood by everyone while also having plenty of flavour. Also be sure to check it out if you enjoy the flowery battle incantations.
Bonus
FFT is also not 'Old English'
An example of old English is this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s9fh3cmWt8
http://www.anglo-saxons.net/hwaet/?do=get&type=text&id=wdr
An example of old English is this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s9fh3cmWt8
http://www.anglo-saxons.net/hwaet/?do=get&type=text&id=wdr
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Japanese is also a much more direct language than (well written) English tends to be. There's a reason those old Final Fantasy fan translations are largely mocked around these parts.
Frog is just poorly written in the original translation. A "thou" sprinkled in here and there does not old English make.