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[kiaaa]

You think most SRPG/Final Fantasy fans were theater and English lit enthusiasts, and studied classics in english literature? You think there's a heavy overlap there, on what data are you basing that?

You just put a bunch of words in my mouth, but it's not hard to believe that RPG enthusiasts are also readers. I only ever mentioned high school lit classes anyways. If you need more than that, the problem isn't the game.

If you read a lot, you develop the reading comprehension to understand text even if you don't know the definition of every word. With a little time spent reading old literature, this should be a breeze.

 

[~Cross~]

"Many"? Sounds mighty anecdotal to me, so here's my anecdote to counter. Just about everyone I know that's played FFXIV and actually read the dialogue loved it. There's a sizable chunk of MMO players that skip dialogue regardless of quality . Seems like they're using that an excuse for their shitty habits?

This style of localization is infinitely better than everyone speaking like it's modern day regardless of setting. If this is somehow unreadable to you, or "cringy" then I honestly dunno what to say. It's easy as fuck to parse and adds to the atmosphere of the games immensely.

The English script for FFXIV is infinitely better than the Japanese one to the point I stopped using the japanese voices because what they were saying was in contrast so plain and dull that it clashed violently with what I was reading.

 

[Skilletor]

But it's really not...

Okay.

 

[Mandoric]

Have you ever been to the theatre?

That's the thing from my perspective; FFT is literally the story of a forgotten hero, scrubbed from history by an Inquisition and only existing as the hidden scribbled notes of his companions. To the extent that using the XIXth.c. poetic concept of what early Enlightenment English sounded like places me within the context of a world struggling to awaken, using the XXth c. concept of what period theatre sounds like tears me away from the context of the plot as an unadorned record.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

"Many"? Sounds mighty anecdotal to me, so here's my anecdote to counter. Just about everyone I know that's played FFXIV and actually read the dialogue loved it. There's a sizable chunk of MMO players that skip dialogue regardless of quality . Seems like they're using that an excuse for their shitty habits?

This style of localization is infinitely better than everyone speaking like it's modern day regardless of setting. If this is somehow unreadable to you, or "cringy" then I honestly dunno what to say. It's easy as fuck to parse and adds to the atmosphere of the games immensely.

I read through every line of dialogue in FFXIV all the way up to the end of ARR (with Japanese voices on for cutscenes). Story was decent, dialogue was terrible. It came off as pretentious as it does this game, and every voiced cutscene was a blessing because I could hear the original, more straightforward script.

So it's not everyone.

Seems to be a love it or hate it affair.

The English script for FFXIV is infinitely better than the Japanese one to the point I stopped using the japanese voices because what they were saying was in contrast so plain and dull that it clashed violently with what I was reading.

Like I am the exact opposite of this. To each their own I suppose.

 

[MechaX]

Edit: double post in error

Edit 2: Actually...

I read through every line of dialogue in FFXIV all the way up to the end of ARR (with Japanese voices on for cutscenes). Story was decent, dialogue was terrible. It came off as pretentious as it does this game, and every voiced cutscene was a blessing because I could hear the original, more straightforward script.

So it's not everyone.

Seems to be a love it or hate it affair.

I'm just curious; have you progressed into the 2xx patches or Heavensward?

 

[Basileus777]

Yes, I know. Just saying it's closer to Martin than Shakespeare.

I don't agree. It's stylized in a way that GRRM's dialogue is not. If you put WOTL characters in a scene with someone from ASOIAF they'd likely make fun of how they talk. It's aping theater more than Martin.

 

[kiaaa]

I don't agree. It's stylized in a way that GRRM's dialogue is not. If you put WOTL characters in a scene with someone from ASOIAF they'd likely make fun of how they talk. It's aping theater more than Martin.

GRRM's dialogue is fairly straight-forward to match the grittiness/realism he's trying to convey. It gets flowery on occasion, but only within certain contexts. So yeah, can't really compare them.

 

[zroid]

Just looking at the examples in the OP, "Now kin to naught but woe" is a little over the top, but the rest are fine imo. Gives the dialogue some flavour.

 

[like.a.ser]

It's a very well-written localization that fits the mood and setting of the game.

 

[SOLDIER]

ITT:

 

[Skilletor]

ITT:

lmao

 

[jett]

I wish this new version was on PC. I actually like the examples in the OP.

 

[Green Mamba]

Lol at "still your tongue" being too pretentious.

 

[Sibylus]

None of the examples read even remotely purple. Ya'll would die trying Shakespeare.

 

[fvng]

You just put a bunch of words in my mouth, but it's not hard to believe that RPG enthusiasts are also readers. I only ever mentioned high school lit classes anyways. If you need more than that, the problem isn't the game.

If you read a lot, you develop the reading comprehension to understand text even if you don't know the definition of every word. With a little time spent reading old literature, this should be a breeze.

I read a lot, so your point is moot, you think most modern English fiction is using the prose seen in this game? Instead of challenging my reading comprehension level, consider the fact that while the game is not ALWAYS incomprehensible, there are times whey they go overboard with older english. I would say the game is easily readable 70% of the time, and the rest it's totally obnoxious and obtuse. The citations of great dialogue in WOTL in this thread are not par for the course

None of the examples read even remotely purple. Ya'll would die trying Shakespeare.

I read Shakespeare in High School.. I mostly posted cringe examples of "trying way too hard" but I'll be posting egregious examples throughout the rest of my playthrough...

 

[like.a.ser]

Lol at "still your tongue" being too pretentious.

Right? It's like people who play extremely text-heavy SRPGs don't like to read.

I read a lot, so your point is moot, you think most modern English fiction is using the prose seen in this game?

It's not attempting to emulate modern English fiction.

 

[.JayZii]

Time for a Trumpian translation. More people in the heartland need to play this game.

"Don't blame us. Blame yourself or God." stays in, of course.

 

[jblank83]

Lol at "still your tongue" being too pretentious.

Yeah, just not modern enough for today's sophisticated market. Cultural expression has greatly advanced beyond these archaic constructs.

Should probably be more like "shut up, ***" for the tasteful connoisseur.

 

[kiaaa]

I read a lot, so your point is moot, you think most modern English fiction is using the prose seen in this game? Instead of challenging my reading comprehension level, consider the fact that while the game is not ALWAYS incomprehensible, there are times whey they go overboard with older english. I would say the game is easily readable 70% of the time, and the rest it's totally obnoxious and obtuse. The citations of great dialogue in WOTL in this thread are not par for the course



I read Shakespeare in High School.. I mostly posted cringe examples but I'll be posting egregious examples throughout the rest of my playthrough...

Never said most English fiction uses this kind of prose. I played this a couple months ago and cannot think of one time I stopped to reread a sentence because I didn't understand it the first time.

 

[Vic20]

Reading is hard, M'kay?!

 

[like.a.ser]

Yeah, just not modern enough for today's sophisticated market.

Should probably be more like "shut up ****"

Delita glances over his shoulder. "Cash me outside how bout tha?" Delita rides off, princess in tow.

 

[Skux]

As someone who loved FFXII's localization I have to say this is right up my alley. Maybe a little over the top at points but it fits with the presentation.

And this is hardly Shakespearean/Elizabethan English. This is more like the TV Tropes version of what people think English sounded like three hundred years ago. If you look at Shakespeare's prose (as opposed to his blank verse) it's surprisingly understandable.

"I have of late – but wherefore I know not – lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercise; and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory. This most excellent canopy the air, look you, this brave o’erhanging, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire – why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours."
Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2

 

[Xero]

I didnt have an issue with the translation, and compared to the fuck awful original, Despite being overly flowery I could better see the characters talking in this way then the weirdness of the original.

 

[fvng]

None of the examples read even remotely purple. Ya'll would die trying Shakespeare.

Most of my examples are not there because they're incomprehensible, just that they are trying way too hard. "You speak false!" and "I mislike this" is not indecipherable they're just cringe.

I love what the translators were going for, but they ended up going heavy handed. What they were communicating in my screenshots didn't require flowery language, that's the point of those citations.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

As someone who loved FFXII's localization I have to say this is right up my alley. Maybe a little over the top at points but it fits with the presentation.

And this is hardly Shakespearean/Elizabethan English. This is more like the TV Tropes version of what people think English sounded like three hundred years ago. If you look at Shakespeare's prose (as opposed to his blank verse) it's surprisingly understandable.

"I have of late – but wherefore I know not – lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercise; and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory. This most excellent canopy the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire – why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours."
Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2

As a non-native English speaker who considers herself perfectly fluent; this is wayyyy more purple and hard to follow than anything in FFT: WotL, haha.

Most of my examples are not there because they're incomprehensible, just that they are trying way too hard. "You speak false!" and "I mislike this" is not indecipherable they're just cringe.

Saying these phrases are "cringe" is more cringeworthy than anything in the game...

 

[Vincent Alexander]

"I have of late – but wherefore I know not – lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercise; and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory. This most excellent canopy the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire – why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours."
Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2

Me trying to read this:

 

[HeeHo]

"I have of late – but wherefore I know not – lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercise; and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory. This most excellent canopy the air, look you, this brave o’erhanging, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire – why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours."
Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2

Ha, now this would be hard to read if all the dialogue was like this. I'd constantly be stopping and trying to contemplate what it means. I don't find the current format in WotL hard to read. Even the stuff I don't really understand, I can infer and be mostly right.

 

[fvng]

Saying these phrases are "cringe" is more cringeworthy than anything in the game...

"I am come" and "I mislike this" are not cringe? haha, K bro. Not impossible to understand, just needlessly flowery

 

[Biske]

Nah, its totally readable.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Most of my examples are not there because they're incomprehensible, just that they are trying way too hard. "You speak false!" and "I mislike this" is not indecipherable they're just cringe.

I love what the translators were going for, but they ended up going heavy handed. What they were communicating in my screenshots didn't require flowery language, that's the point of those citations.

The condescending nature in this thread is way too intense. Attacking comprehension level, calling you stupid, saying to go read a book, a random "Trumpian" comparison (wtf?), saying that you obviously missed the point... man. Of course it's not everyone, but still.

I bolded what your main statement was because I think that your message is sound and is a valid opinion to have. And one that has nothing to do with reading comprehension or intelligence.

 

[Skilletor]

As someone who loved FFXII's localization I have to say this is right up my alley. Maybe a little over the top at points but it fits with the presentation.

And this is hardly Shakespearean/Elizabethan English. This is more like the TV Tropes version of what people think English sounded like three hundred years ago. If you look at Shakespeare's prose (as opposed to his blank verse) it's surprisingly understandable.

"I have of late – but wherefore I know not – lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercise; and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory. This most excellent canopy the air, look you, this brave o’erhanging, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire – why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours."
Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2

This is exactly what I meant when I said it's closer to Martin than Shakespeare, lol.

 

[MechaX]

Me trying to read this:

The trick with stuff like this is that some words are key. Knowing the meaning to mirth pretty much makes everything after flow well enough.

For all that was said in that line, it can be comically boiled down to "I'm sad and a little salty too, fuck everything."

Spoiler

he's just disillusioned at the moment.

 

[jblank83]

"I am come" and "You speak false" are "cringe"?

****, the world we live in.

 

[Sibylus]

I read a lot, so your point is moot, you think most modern English fiction is using the prose seen in this game? Instead of challenging my reading comprehension level, consider the fact that while the game is not ALWAYS incomprehensible, there are times whey they go overboard with older english. I would say the game is easily readable 70% of the time, and the rest it's totally obnoxious and obtuse. The citations of great dialogue in WOTL in this thread are not par for the course

I read Shakespeare in High School.. I mostly posted cringe examples of "trying way too hard" but I'll be posting egregious examples throughout the rest of my playthrough...

Pick it up again, because I suspect you would find it far more grandiose and much harder to parse than anything in FFT. From the examples given, a good balance seems to have been struck between using period language and still making it quickly readable for modern audiences.

Most of my examples are not there because they're incomprehensible, just that they are trying way too hard. "You speak false!" and "I mislike this" is not indecipherable they're just cringe.

I love what the translators were going for, but they ended up going heavy handed. What they were communicating in my screenshots didn't require flowery language, that's the point of those citations.

None of this language is particularly flowery for the desired period and effect. It's rather restrained, actually.

 

[humansarehorses]

As someone who loved FFXII's localization I have to say this is right up my alley. Maybe a little over the top at points but it fits with the presentation.

And this is hardly Shakespearean/Elizabethan English. This is more like the TV Tropes version of what people think English sounded like three hundred years ago. If you look at Shakespeare's prose (as opposed to his blank verse) it's surprisingly understandable.

"I have of late – but wherefore I know not – lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercise; and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory. This most excellent canopy the air, look you, this brave o’erhanging, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire – why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours."
Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2

...you think this is surprisingly understandable? Sterile promontory? Really?

 

[akira28]

I wish this new version was on PC. I actually like the examples in the OP.

i have it on android. tis nice.

 

[Pinko Marx]

...you think this is surprisingly understandable? Sterile promontory? Really?

I mean... Sterile is a somewhat common term.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

The trick with stuff like this is that some words are key. Knowing the meaning to mirth pretty much makes everything after flow well enough.

For all that was said in that line, it can be comically boiled down to "I'm sad and a little salty too, fuck everything."

Spoiler

he's just disillusioned at the moment.

I would genuinely love to read Shakespeare someday. I imagine I'm going to need to keep a dictionary close to get through some words, but I'm dedicated on doing it. Hamlet especially I've always wanted to read because the characters sound damn interesting.

 

[WarRock]

Unless English isn't his first language, yep, the readability problem has nothing to do with the game's translation and prose. Vagrant Story's dialogue (pretty much identical to this, being an Ivalice-ish game) is one of the main reasons I consider it my favourite game of all time.

"Warping the minds of men and shepherding the masses has always been your church's domain. You lure sheep with empty miracles and a dead god."

HNNNNGG.

I'm not a native English speaker and never read English literature and all examples posted in this thread are pretty easy to follow. No need to stop and parse anything like some are mentioning. One or two lines do sound funny but it has more to do with unfamiliarity than not being able to understand or feeling out of place.

And, being able to process (and admire) the dialogue so easily, I can't even understand arguments like those:

You think most SRPG/Final Fantasy fans were theater and English lit enthusiasts, and studied classics in english literature? You think there's a heavy overlap there, on what data are you basing that?

It's just a different use of your language to convey the mood of the setting and tone of the characters. It's not aimed at a niche, what the heck.

But the greater point of the OP is that it reads pretentious or try hard. That is really subjective and I don't feel the same at all. "I am come" and "Still your tongue" are sentences I've actually read in many games or movies before.

Or maybe that's just how people talk in that setting. That's how I take it.

Then again, I might be particularly tolerant of things like this -- that is, being more playful with language in general, not just in this type of pseudo-historic setting. I mean, I greatly enjoyed Bank's Feersum Endjinn, and that reads like this in parts:


(I'm also not a native speaker, I'm sure that significantly affects how you perceive language)

Man, that just reminds me of the internet-lingo-abbreviated-speak from D4ve 2 that I hated. Though way more eloquent and less meme-y, of course. Actually, D4ve 2 sounded try hard as hell to me, specially when the first comic didn't use any of that type of language.

I wish this new version was on PC. I actually like the examples in the OP.

Emulate the PSP version?

 

[humansarehorses]

I mean... Sterile is a somewhat common term.

Sure but if I asked for the meaning of sterile promontory, I doubt there are many people who could give me a straight answer without looking it up. And how can a passage be surprisingly understandable when many people don't even know what certain phrases in it mean?

 

[Skux]

...you think this is surprisingly understandable? Sterile promontory? Really?

Okay so some of the nouns aren't very common these days but the structure is all there.

Wherefore = why
Mirth = happiness
"Foregone all custom of exercises" = stopped my habit of exercising
Disposition = character
Promontory = a raised mass of land that projects into a body of water
Firmament = sky/heavens
Fretted = decorated

It's not a different language, just a different vocabulary. I probably started with a bad example (I just love Hamlet so it came to mind first), I'll have a look for others. His comedies are usually much more accessible.

 

[fvng]

I'm not a native English speaker and never read English literature and all examples posted in this thread are pretty easy to follow. No need to stop and parse anything like some are mentioning.

You probably missed my response to that post earlier, which is fine, but I said, that's a great example in this game demonstrating going for beautiful prose while also being easily understood.

The condescending nature in this thread is way too intense. Attacking comprehension level, calling you stupid, saying to go read a book, a random "Trumpian" comparison (wtf?), saying that you obviously missed the point... man. Of course it's not everyone, but still.

I bolded what your main statement was because I think that your message is sound and is a valid opinion to have. And one that has nothing to do with reading comprehension or intelligence.

Yeah thanks man... there are times throughout my second playthrough of WOTL that I've said to myself "that was beautifully put" and other times where "okay that wasn't necessary"

Time for a Trumpian translation. More people in the heartland need to play this game.

I'm not a Trump supporter, but this is the type of elitism that alienates working class americans from the left.. but I digress.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Time for a Trumpian translation. More people in the heartland need to play this game.

"Don't blame us. Blame yourself or God." stays in, of course.

More like "Blame the Mexicans and Muslims. God bless America."

 

[Parsnip]

I vastly prefer the WotL translation.

It's not quite on the amazing level of FF12 and Vagrant Story, but comes pretty close.

 

[MechaX]

I would genuinely love to read Shakespeare someday. I imagine I'm going to need to keep a dictionary close to get through some words, but I'm dedicated on doing it. Hamlet especially I've always wanted to read because the characters sound damn interesting.

There should be some editions out there that have some side-notes/definitions of words or phrases that just are not used anymore so you don't have to constantly go back to the dictionary. I sure as hell needed it with some of the authors in that time period on my first reads, and the editions that had footnotes/etc made things way more enjoyable to read with some of the stuff.'

The trick is to not read Shakespeare. They're plays, they're meant to be performed on stage. And having actors give you context with inflection and movement makes a world of difference to understanding what's going on.

This is a good point; there is definitely a lot of value in just watching a good adaptation over reading it (and then after getting a few under your belt, your imagination can probably carry you pretty well on some of his other works).

 

[Skux]

I would genuinely love to read Shakespeare someday. I imagine I'm going to need to keep a dictionary close to get through some words, but I'm dedicated on doing it. Hamlet especially I've always wanted to read because the characters sound damn interesting.

The trick is to not read Shakespeare. They're plays, they're meant to be performed and watched on stage. And having actors give you context with inflection and movement makes a world of difference to understanding what's going on.

 

[Eridani]

Sure but if I asked for the meaning of sterile promontory, I doubt there are many people who could give me a straight answer without looking it up. And how can a passage be surprisingly understandable when many people don't even know what certain phrases in it mean?

I mean, I'm not a native speaker and haven't ever read Shakespeare in English, so the fact that promontory was the only word I didn't understand makes it surprisingly understandable imo. I have definitely come across much less understandable prose before.

 

[fvng]

It's not quite on the amazing level of FF12 and Vagrant Story, but comes pretty close.

FF12 and VS level is all I want from WOTL's writing. I feel like they toned it down because FF12 was going to be a higher profile mainline entry

 

[WilyRook]

"When a man's verses cannot be understood, nor a man's good wit seconded with the forward child Understanding, it strikes a man more dead than a great reckoning in a little room.-Truly, I would the gods had made thee poetical." - Touchstone

I'm only teasing.

Do you mean simple changes, though?

"Speak plainly," instead of "Make your purpose plain."

"Worrying will purchase nothing from me," instead of "Your worry will find no purchase with me."

"What news?" instead of "What news have you?"

"Be silent, Ludovich," instead of "Still your tongue, Ludovich."

Is this more palatable?