facetheslayer92
Member
This is fucking awesome. Like staring into a time capsule.
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Here are some issues I have with the Switch launch for us to politely discuss
- Thread starter Spy
- Start date
This is fucking awesome. Like staring into a time capsule.
darkazcura
Member
Nintendo definitely has some QA issues with the Nintendo Switch it seems, but you must be joking with this sacred cow stuff right? Nintendo constantly gets crapped on by a majority of GAF. Lol, it's your own personal bias if you see it any other way.
I mean you are comparing the memory card issue from the Vita to Nintendo's accessory pricing like they are similar at all. The memory card for the Vita was necessary for the console to even function and save games. A pro controller isn't necessary for the Switch (even then the MSRP is 10 dollars higher than the PS4 and One controllers at launch, and the controller is significantly higher quality than the PS4 controller was at launch). A second dock isn't necessary for the Switch. While I think it is insane for the packed grip not to have a USB port (I think this is the one accessory from Nintendo Switch's launch that I have huge issues with from a nickel and diming standpoint), it's perfectly fine to throw the joycons on the Switch to charge them especially with the 20 hour battery life. In fact I actually prefer this method of charging over having to pull out a wire or worry about batteries.
I think there are definitely things to pounce on Nintendo for, particularly their QA, lack of cloud saves, concerns over how voice chat will be handled, and friend code nonsense. Other criticisms like accessory pricing, battery life, and launch lineup seem blown out of proportion to me personally. Nintendo really needs to get their QA and online infrastructure teams up to par.
patrickthehedgehog
Member
Mine doesn't. Sending it in for repair when I'm done with Zelda. Already opened a ticket with them and got a mailing label.
Day 2: Rage Against the Machine
So it has a stand. Very cool. And remember that video of folks playing LAN? Well, assuming they all get radio signals for WiFi and controllers, that will be COOL. Like, the easiest LAN setup ever, right?
Wrong. Because somebody thought it would be a good idea to put the charging port on the same plane as the kickstand mode. So you can't charge and play at the same time.
I can't even.
Mine is about a millimeter up and floppy, won't snap or clock shut. Maybe that's normal though?
So it has a stand. Very cool. And remember that video of folks playing LAN? Well, assuming they all get radio signals for WiFi and controllers, that will be COOL. Like, the easiest LAN setup ever, right?
Wrong. Because somebody thought it would be a good idea to put the charging port on the same plane as the kickstand mode. So you can't charge and play at the same time.
I can't even.
Mine is about a millimeter up and floppy, won't snap or clock shut. Maybe that's normal though?
darkazcura
Member
Where else would you put the charge port when the main selling point of the Switch is the ease of docking and undocking?
I can think of a dozen solutions immediately:
A levered hatch with a USB C on one side, a levered hatch with USB C as a "lid" in docked mode, redundant independent ports, redundant connected ports, non USB charging for dock, etc etc.
I could do that all day.
This design solving one problem should not be at the cost of another or introduce more problems.
As crazy as it sounds to have 2 charging ports it should probably also have a charging port on the top of the system.
That's exactly what's with mine. I have a Neon one coming from Gamestop in a couple days if they ever ship it, so if that one snaps shut, I'll just return this one to best buy.
I'm not exactly sure what a lot of this is supposed to mean but I willnsay this again: Even though the Switch is different than the Xbox One and PS4 it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Anyone thinking about buying a Switch will likely also consider an Xbox or PlayStation and unless that person really values portability or Nintendo exclusives the other systems have a lot more going for them.
coughlanio
Member
Dock has already scratched the back of my system. I've taken the system out of the dock maybe 3 times and I really baby my electronic devices. Not as big a deal as the screen - but still super annoying.
this. the main reason why I decided to get one is the fact that I travel a lot and with it I can game on the go, with bonus tv play for local coop
The issues that OP counts has made me hesitate on buying Switch with the kinda high price it has. Haven't tested the console personally, so can't obviously say for sure if they would bother me or not.
Another thing that worries me a little is how ergonomic the joy-cons would feel in my hands. My hands and fingers are relatively very big (genes or something), and due to it holding vita and 3DS etc. can feel physically painful to them. Had some issues with Wii-motes too, but not with DS4, 360 controller or Wii U pro.
Another thing that worries me a little is how ergonomic the joy-cons would feel in my hands. My hands and fingers are relatively very big (genes or something), and due to it holding vita and 3DS etc. can feel physically painful to them. Had some issues with Wii-motes too, but not with DS4, 360 controller or Wii U pro.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Enthusiast handheld users buy multiple devices. And enthusiasts make up a minority of the target audience.
I own three DS's, two 3DS's and two PS4s but I'm a crazy person.
The PS4's launch was godawful. So much so that I almost immediately sold it to my brother for his Wii U and haven't regretted that purchase since.
edit - definitely gonna pick up a pro slim when it comes out though, for all of those sweet sweet exclusives.
LordRaptor
Member
Do you believe it more or less likely that someone with upwards of $300 burning a hole in their pocket and being aware of the value proposition that is offered by the PS4 / PS4Pro / X1 would not have already bought one of those if that offered value proposition meant more than what the Switch offers?
Nintendo will keep the 3DS alive for some time as a backup plan in case the Switch flops horribly this year. If the system sells well enough they will quickly abandon it and start investing hard at the Switch deparment. That would be in line with what happened with the GBA and DS.
Xist2inspire
Member
Wel, now that the title's been changed to something less inflammatory, let's discuss:
Since Nintendo doesn't do what the rest of the industry does (they never really did, it's just that when they were the market leader, it didn't show as much), they get a lot of intense (though not totally undue) criticism on a daily basis that Sony and Microsoft simply don't get. Really, the fact that some people actually think that Nintendo, a pure gaming company, can go toe-to-toe with two multimedia giants on their turf and terms, is...shocking, to say the least. Yes, the Switch has issues that make it a poor primary console for gamers. But Nintendo knows that, which is why they've mainly gone for the "secondary console" approach. And no, "secondary" doesn't automatically mean "should be cheap," the electronics industry (and the consumer market as a whole) is filled with wildly expensive accessories that aren't necessary enough, and don't do enough, to justify their price.
You can call me crazy, but I find it hard to believe that one can own a PS4 & XB1, a PS4 & PC, or a XB1 & PC, yet somehow a Nintendo system is "too expensive" to serve as a secondary system. Consoles are a luxury, an expensive luxury at that. Owning multiple is always going to be pricey, we all know this. But, that's a gamer issue. For everyone else, hopefully Nintendo will do what they can to add enough extra value/features to satisfy those who only want a game console to play Nintendo games. The "soft launch" thing gets trashed, but at least it gives Nintendo time to iron out the kinks before the holidays, when all these concerns actually matter.
Tl;dr - The Switch has issues, but most are typical launch issues. Other issues are inherent to the system itself and can't easily be changedm It's way too early to declare the system dead or successful because of its issues, nor declare the hardware and concept itself DOA and pointless. If you bought it, cool. If you didn't, cool. If you like it, cool. If you didn't, cool. We'll see how it all shakes out in the future.
A good chunk of these issues can be chalked up to the fact that the Switch just launched. That's not to excuse the lack of these features, but not having things like this immediately is usually the risk you take by being an early adopter. A lot of these things can be added later, and they probably will if Nintendo sees that the majority want them. I can't speak to Miiverse, Streetpass, achievements, and friend codes, mostly because I'm not that social and thus don't see a real need for any of them. That's my opinion though, and I freely admit that there is an audience for such things.
I'm not going to argue with you too much here, I do find the total Switch experience to be overpriced. I will say that I've felt that way about every launch console. As for being competitive with PS4 and XB1 in terms of price, remember that both of these systems have been out for a while, and thus are now at a point where they can be sold cheaper. Granted, Nintendo brought this on themselves by releasing Switch mid/late-gen, but you simply can't expect a new console to compete with older systems in price. Scorpio will have the same issues, I hope nobody's expecting it to match the PS4, XB1, or even the Switch in price. As far as storage goes, the discussion has already been had numerous times. If you care about digital games enough to care about low storage, then you should already know that you will eventually have to pay for more storage, no exceptions. There is no excuse for excessive complaining about having to pay for more storage in 2017.
Again, if you came into this launch expecting different, that's your fault. Third-party AAA games were never going to be there, you weren't going to be blown away technically, and again - launch consoles always lack features...like the Virtual Console. As far as overpriced games go, only 1-2 Switch is 100% Nintendo's fault. And while I can understand Nintendo loyalists moaning about the lack of a d-pad, I don't quite get anyone else complaining about it, given that neither Sony nor Microsoft have consistently used a true d-pad, ever. But again, this is something that we already knew had to be done for the Switch multiplayer concept to work.
Again, I'm not a social gamer, so I can't speak to this.
Right now it's free, and it'll be free for a while as they (hopefully) add value. Expecting Nintendo paid online to be completely on par with PS4/XB1 from the start is misguided at best, delusional at worst. These are the kinds of questions Nintendo will always have to face when trying to adopt "industry standards", no matter how powerful the console itself is. It's a big reason why the idea that Nintendo could just snap their fingers and create a media machine completely on par with Sony/Microsoft from scratch, and succeed, is a fantasy.
This is more of a personal issue than a problem with the console itself. For example, I owned, and loved, a Game Boy Micro, despite having average/large (I guess?) hands, thus I don't expect to have much of a problem with the Switch controllers. It also shouldn't be an issue for children. What's comfortable (or not) for you might not be comfortable (or not) for somebody else.
Again, these are usually the kind of issues you have with launch hardware, especially the Joy-Con issue. Remember the "Red Ring of Death?" The kickstand is a bit of a non-issue. for the screen, I had a hunch that while everyone was trashing the bezel, it was obviously put there to keep the actual screen safe from all the docking/undocking, and look at where we are now. Still think the bezel was a bad idea?
While yes, Nintendo is a bit out of touch, it goes both ways. There's also a very large number of gamers who are out of touch as well. They simply can't understand why something that doesn't primarily appeal to them or their perception of what gaming is should exist (see: mobile gaming, the perception of 2D vs 3D gaming in the 90s, etc.), and they are quick to condemn it, and condemn it loudly. There's much more to games and consoles than just graphics and features, just like there's more to movies than summer blockbusters, or more to comic books/graphic novels than superheroes.
Since Nintendo doesn't do what the rest of the industry does (they never really did, it's just that when they were the market leader, it didn't show as much), they get a lot of intense (though not totally undue) criticism on a daily basis that Sony and Microsoft simply don't get. Really, the fact that some people actually think that Nintendo, a pure gaming company, can go toe-to-toe with two multimedia giants on their turf and terms, is...shocking, to say the least. Yes, the Switch has issues that make it a poor primary console for gamers. But Nintendo knows that, which is why they've mainly gone for the "secondary console" approach. And no, "secondary" doesn't automatically mean "should be cheap," the electronics industry (and the consumer market as a whole) is filled with wildly expensive accessories that aren't necessary enough, and don't do enough, to justify their price.
You can call me crazy, but I find it hard to believe that one can own a PS4 & XB1, a PS4 & PC, or a XB1 & PC, yet somehow a Nintendo system is "too expensive" to serve as a secondary system. Consoles are a luxury, an expensive luxury at that. Owning multiple is always going to be pricey, we all know this. But, that's a gamer issue. For everyone else, hopefully Nintendo will do what they can to add enough extra value/features to satisfy those who only want a game console to play Nintendo games. The "soft launch" thing gets trashed, but at least it gives Nintendo time to iron out the kinks before the holidays, when all these concerns actually matter.
Tl;dr - The Switch has issues, but most are typical launch issues. Other issues are inherent to the system itself and can't easily be changedm It's way too early to declare the system dead or successful because of its issues, nor declare the hardware and concept itself DOA and pointless. If you bought it, cool. If you didn't, cool. If you like it, cool. If you didn't, cool. We'll see how it all shakes out in the future.
TheFawz
Member
That's a pretty good list in the OP of areas that could have been handled better for the console's launch. Some of them are things that can be improved so hopefully it gets better with updates or future Switch SKUs. The Save Data transfer limitations I hope they manage to resolve real soon.
One other issue I have is that they shipped the hardware without an Ethernet Port again. I don't see devs putting much care in Online modes if the norm is WiFi as opposed to a wired connection.
One other issue I have is that they shipped the hardware without an Ethernet Port again. I don't see devs putting much care in Online modes if the norm is WiFi as opposed to a wired connection.
Most console users are connected via wifi. The lack of Ethernet is aggravating, but won't make a lick of difference to devs in terms of features, just end point performance for users.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
"Lack of software" is something I'm not dealing with at this point. Zelda, FAST RMX, and Snipperclips are all new, great launch titles. Enough for me, anyway.
Other concerns are legitimate. I'm still stunned at how poorly the hardware structure was designed. Huge, huge failure.
Squarehard
Member
I see the title of the thread has changed at least, relatively speaking. 
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Very well said and you hit on the crux of the situation.
I've said it a couple times already but people need to understand that by trying to wave off these issues like they are nothing they aren't doing their beloved console or company any service in the end.
The more issues that people have to try to deal with the more they will eventually end up hardening their hearts and souring their minds towards x console/company.
The best thing that can happen right now is for people to throw up their hands and be vocal about what they think stinks so that Nintendo can A. Remove the stench from everyone's misery (We just need to show them where it's coming from.) and B. Maybe give out some air fresheners in the meantime.
In the end it will be better for everyone the faster these issues get brought to light and ironed out.
I have little Trumpy hands, so hopefully I will be OK for cramps, but I can't comfortably use the left buttons, only the right. Might get used to it over time I suppose. I could not play Halo on this though. No chance. The lack of stick travel alone would kill me, never mind the button placements.
BlastProcessing
Member
But that trade off is inherent in all design. There are always trade offs and you get nothing for free. All of your proposed solutions have obvious negatives as well.
Would you give up battery life for it?
Certainly that will add cost and take up interior space.
Personally I think that the LAN thing is cool, but probably not going to be used by that many people, and three hours is mostly long enough for one session.
BlastProcessing
Member
Double post
Night Angel
Member
After playing it in handheld mode for two hours, I have some impressions.
Battery: as expected, battery life is poor. I started getting anxious as I watched the battery indicator drain.
Screen: the screen looks pretty good. Not as good as my phone, but coming from the 3DS it's amazing.
Comfort: unfortunately I'm not a fan of how it feels in my hands. The device is relatively heavy, and the lack of rounded grips on the joycons to have them rest comfortably in my hands (like a normal controller would have) makes my hands a bit sore after extended play. Hopefully someone releases a controller grip for the individual joycons in the near future. The right stick is high enough that I need to hold the right side differently from the left, leading my right hand to cramp a bit when I'm fighting the controls for Zelda (and don't get me started on the baffling controls for that game... running and jumping while moving the camera? Lmaooo not today).
The grip that came with the console feels pretty good, though (but why can't it charge you greedy bastards). If only I could tear it in half and slap it onto the system in handheld mode.
Games: it's a Zelda machine. It looks like it'll be a Zelda machine for a good while.
Battery: as expected, battery life is poor. I started getting anxious as I watched the battery indicator drain.
Screen: the screen looks pretty good. Not as good as my phone, but coming from the 3DS it's amazing.
Comfort: unfortunately I'm not a fan of how it feels in my hands. The device is relatively heavy, and the lack of rounded grips on the joycons to have them rest comfortably in my hands (like a normal controller would have) makes my hands a bit sore after extended play. Hopefully someone releases a controller grip for the individual joycons in the near future. The right stick is high enough that I need to hold the right side differently from the left, leading my right hand to cramp a bit when I'm fighting the controls for Zelda (and don't get me started on the baffling controls for that game... running and jumping while moving the camera? Lmaooo not today).
The grip that came with the console feels pretty good, though (but why can't it charge you greedy bastards). If only I could tear it in half and slap it onto the system in handheld mode.
Games: it's a Zelda machine. It looks like it'll be a Zelda machine for a good while.
At least the Switch is sentient. Proof of it trying to communicate...lol
Every launch has it's issues the internet tends to magnify these.
Every launch has it's issues the internet tends to magnify these.
CharminUltra
Member
A+ title change. 10/10 mod work.
Biggest issue for me are the damn wrist straps. One of them go stuck and getting it off felt pretty scary even after trying the tips from other posters on the OT. Never again.
Other than that, I fucking love this thing. I woke up this morning and played some Zelda in bed, then after a shower and some breakfast I went to the living room, docked it, and continued there seamlessly. Feels gud man.
Biggest issue for me are the damn wrist straps. One of them go stuck and getting it off felt pretty scary even after trying the tips from other posters on the OT. Never again.
Other than that, I fucking love this thing. I woke up this morning and played some Zelda in bed, then after a shower and some breakfast I went to the living room, docked it, and continued there seamlessly. Feels gud man.
Xbone and Ps4 sales will just drop off a cliff now that Switch has released.
darkazcura
Member
Yeah I think the best solution would have been a second charging port as weird as that sounds.
LordRaptor
Member
Wow, how on earth do you get to that from what I said?
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Wii U gamepad was like that. Connector pins at the bottom for docking to charge and a charging port at the top to plug the wire in.
Wii U gamepad was better than Switch in that regard in terms of charging options.
You disingenuously ask a question that dodges the main issue, that both of them are cheaper and do offer a lot more value for anyone that my be on the market for a new gaming device by pretending that everyone who is already bought one of those consoles.
QuantumSquid
Member
Halo confirmed not coming to Nintendo Switch.
xxbrothawizxx63
Member
This is my ultimate worry. The rumors we heard were that they didn't have any plans to add in non-gaming functionality and it seems like that really might end up being true.
Nintendo wasn't nearly as silent about these features with Wii U and 3DS. If they weren't there at launch, Nintendo had announced solid plans to add them unlike the auto-reply responses we've gotten so far on Switch features.
SirClinksAlot
Member
That is literally not the definition of astroturfing. If you dont want to hear his complaints stop clicking on his topics? People should be able to discuss these things without hordes of Ninty fans going OMG I LOOOOVE MY SWITCH BOO HOO YOU. Stop being so invested in a corporation that doesnt give a fuck about you.
SporeCrawler
Member
They are already phasing it out. Fire Emblem Echoes, Pikmin and Far Oasis are the last notable Nintendo games
LordRaptor
Member
Its not disingenous to suggest that someone who is looking for a device with the specific feature set of an xbox / playstation probably already has an xbox or playstation or was already considering an xbox or playstation.
What is disingenous is to extrapolate that into "LOL wrap it up boys, no more PlayStation or Xbox sales!"
Jubenhimer
Member
Nintendo didn't rule out the possibility though, as they hintedn at plans to have them included in the future. Even the system settings imply there's a possibility for non-gaming apps to come.
I think people forget about the kids that would take this to school. LAN mode will be used quite a bit I think.
BoboBrazil
Member
I'm still not convinced this will actually have united development from both console and handheld teams. Nintendo won't admit to it, and they are calling it a console, so they can release a handheld if it fails. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too.
After owning the Switch, it's clear to me at least that it's a handheld that you can also plug into your TV, rather than the other way around.
BoboBrazil
Member
Right, but Nintendo won't admit that. They call it a console so they can still release a new handheld.
I don't think that is the case. It's more likely we'll see an iterative upgrade of the Switch in a couple of years rather than Nintendo separate their console and handheld platforms again. They really need all their game development efforts focused on one platform to help avoid software droughts.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Thanks... Pretty disappointing that I will have to spend money on an elite controller to play it comfortably. If I can't enjoy playing in portable mode, then I'll just dock it. But if it's just docked, it'll feel like a compromised console.
Such a weird device...
I would say that the launch and system are far from perfect, but will attempt to respond nicely to the points made by the OP.
I am a trophy hunter (I have 63 platinum trophies on PSN) but have no issue with there not being an achievement system on Nintendo. Even though it is a part of my gaming habit on playstation titles, I haven't even thought about it or missed it once while playing Zelda or some other launch titles. It didn't bug me on Wii or Wii U either. I am with you on missing the activity log and I hope they add that later on. It isn't uncommon for launch OS to be more barebones and add things as they come. If those things are a deal breaker for you now, I'd wait. They weren't a deal breaker for me.
One issue I have is that it seems that you have ignored a lot of the positives regarding the OS. It's extremely fast (faster than any OS I've used, although I don't have an Xbox). The style is very pleasant to look at it and it's a great foundation. I would rather have this OS in it's current form (and hope that they add activity logs, music, and maybe Miiverse) than the Wii or Wii U OS in their final form.
I agree with you in the sense that I have friends interested in the system and are asking when they should buy it. I'm saying wait until Summer (Mario Kart, Splatoon 2, Arms) I don't see how this is any different than most launches though. Consoles always get more worthwhile as time goes on. Look at my previous paragraph - PS4 launch was thin for me, but I kept the system and the library has filled out and helped it become a great console.
But like some of your other points, you squeezed a really big thing like the Switch "gimmick" into one it's small parts while ignoring all the other good stuff. It is crazy that we can have a home console, coach co-op experience, and then lift them damn thing up and take it on the go like an improved Vita.
Edit: One thing I'm also noticing.. Yes some people are being really rude to OP and defending Nintendo like their significant other works there. The issue I have is that people are ignoring all of the more thought-out posts in this thread and all jumping on "duhhh Nintendo Shill" which is just as toxic and unproductive.
I am a trophy hunter (I have 63 platinum trophies on PSN) but have no issue with there not being an achievement system on Nintendo. Even though it is a part of my gaming habit on playstation titles, I haven't even thought about it or missed it once while playing Zelda or some other launch titles. It didn't bug me on Wii or Wii U either. I am with you on missing the activity log and I hope they add that later on. It isn't uncommon for launch OS to be more barebones and add things as they come. If those things are a deal breaker for you now, I'd wait. They weren't a deal breaker for me.
One issue I have is that it seems that you have ignored a lot of the positives regarding the OS. It's extremely fast (faster than any OS I've used, although I don't have an Xbox). The style is very pleasant to look at it and it's a great foundation. I would rather have this OS in it's current form (and hope that they add activity logs, music, and maybe Miiverse) than the Wii or Wii U OS in their final form.
So far I've gotten the System (including the joycons) and a pro controller. Every time I buy a system I get the system and two controllers. I don't see an issue here. I had a friend come over last night. I took the joycons, he took the procontroller. We had a great time. I feel no need to buy anything else for the time being (compared to when I got several wii motes, nunchucks, a procontroller, a classic controller when I got my Wii U set up).
Launches have a habit of being thin. I love my PS4 but I'm not seeing how that was any better. If you weren't into shooters (which by the way were cross platform) you were basically SOL. I think I got Lego Marvel and Assassins Creed 4, which I enjoyed, but of the four games I've gotten so far (Zelda, Fast RMX, Shovel Knight, Snipper Clips) I like all of them more than anything I played on PS4 at launch.
I agree with you in the sense that I have friends interested in the system and are asking when they should buy it. I'm saying wait until Summer (Mario Kart, Splatoon 2, Arms) I don't see how this is any different than most launches though. Consoles always get more worthwhile as time goes on. Look at my previous paragraph - PS4 launch was thin for me, but I kept the system and the library has filled out and helped it become a great console.
I wish bluetooth was supported as well. I'm going to withhold judgement on the app until we see it in action. I messed around with the parent control app last night and it the communication between device and switch is instant and actually really convenient to have on the phone that is just sitting there.
Again, I'm going to withhold judgement until we see it in action. PS4 costs like double what this is, and we don't know how good or bad it's going to be.
I agree that the joycons are too small to use one at a time (for adults at least) but I've had absolutely no issue playing with two joy cons (for me) and a pro controller (for a friend). I love the feel of the joycons and am very glad that we have a way to do some backwards compatible Wii and Wii U stuff. I almost like playing with them loose as much as the pro controller.
But like some of your other points, you squeezed a really big thing like the Switch "gimmick" into one it's small parts while ignoring all the other good stuff. It is crazy that we can have a home console, coach co-op experience, and then lift them damn thing up and take it on the go like an improved Vita.
I feel really bad for people who are getting shitty luck regarding their controllers and screens. There is nothing positive about this and I hope they get new, workable stuff and that Nintendo makes the changes necessary to get rid of this. I think this is by far your strongest point.
Edit: One thing I'm also noticing.. Yes some people are being really rude to OP and defending Nintendo like their significant other works there. The issue I have is that people are ignoring all of the more thought-out posts in this thread and all jumping on "duhhh Nintendo Shill" which is just as toxic and unproductive.