Lol that Penello quote is indeed pretty funny in hindsight of the PS4 Vs XB1
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XBOX Scorpio: DX12 Built Directly Into GPU
- Thread starter Space_nut
- Start date
Lol that Penello quote is indeed pretty funny in hindsight of the PS4 Vs XB1
oldergamer
Member
Not really considering with xbone they had a mandate from the top to focus on certain features and budget. Remember TV TV TV? The focus wasnt making a hardcore game machine. The focus has clearly changed for the better.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
dr_rus
Member
From the update it looks like this:
A. D3D12 is currently up to 50% more efficient in CPU usage on XBO/XBOS than whatever XBO had for API previously (calling it D3D11 isn't accurate at all as it was closer to D3D12 than 11).
B. They are looking into making this % figure even higher on Scorpio thanks to the changes which were introduced by AMD in Polaris and Vega global scheduling (I have a feeling that they are talking about HWS and some other stuff here).
And yes, it's basically meaningless PR speak.
GankzyMcfly
Member
lol Major Nelson didnt say shit.... it was mentioned on his podcast...of course you didn't listen to that though, because rather then provide evidence to back up your absolutely ridiculous claims, you appear content just grabbing shit out of the depths of your ass and calling it a day.
Chris_Rivera
Member
We need a "yo dawg" meme for this, chop chop.
How does relate to what Penello said in anyway? He tried to disrupt the idea that more performance hardware would lead significant differences and they would close the gap with software.
It's not like them improving and getting to most out of their console performance suddenly changed because of a "mandate" of TV, TV, TV. The engineers role of getting the most out of a platform isn't going to chance because of a mandate that doesn't affect their area of work.
BlackClouds
Member
Vega gpu's will have released by the time the Scorpio is released so it's not AMD's most powerful.
geordiemp
Member
Zen and VEGA will make all prior AMD stuff obsolete in performance jump, and its this year.
Nice, with Dx12 built into the board itself devs won't have to care about it and just make games, not caring about optimising them and programming dx12
It's nice and all that the console itself is built with new APIs in mind, but it's not a breakthrough or anything. The marketing going strong I see.
/s
It's nice and all that the console itself is built with new APIs in mind, but it's not a breakthrough or anything. The marketing going strong I see.
Locuza
Member
Since no precise details were given that's all speculation and shouldn't be sold as a fact.
Of course the Scorpio uses a new and unique chip as the PS4 (Pro) and Xbox One did before.
Claims like "Console X is using Pitcairn/Bonaire/Polaris 10" are factual wrong and misleading.
The Scorpio chip has 44 CUs, 40 are active, 4 are always deactivated to increase the yield rate.
The Polaris 10 chip has 36 CUs and AMD is selling fully enabled chips with the RX 480.
Here is one die shot of Polaris 10:
https://abload.de/img/polaris10_die_smallbnua8.jpg
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I don't get why they'd only use 40 though.
To increase yields. That is SOP.
All their calculations on TDP and power consumption all predicate on a design goal. They just add more CUs to allow for production failure.
IndoAssassin
Banned
Man people couldn't tell the difference between 720p and 1080propoganda all of a sudden they all gonna be able to tell the difference between whatever the hell number p and 2160propoganda?
I wonder what the IGN crew will be saying about their P's when the Scorpio will be released.
What is the true 4K P's anyways?
I wonder what the IGN crew will be saying about their P's when the Scorpio will be released.
What is the true 4K P's anyways?
SwordStruck
Member
It's pretty pointless to compare, they are two different types of memory. But I guess in terms of raw performance, GDDR5 has higher bandwidth but also more latency.
Glad you brought this up. It hasn't been brought up multiple times in every single Scorpio thread. Would be a shame if it wasn't posted for the very first time in this one. Hopefully the opportunity will arise some more.
Edit** /s (since some people miss it)
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
So, in layman terms, to improve reliability?
JeffG
Member
It allows for 4 of the CU to be defective on the production line but the chip is still good for use.
It makes it so that there will be less defective chips they have to throw away.
This isn't getting old and I'm serious.
Nostremitus
Member
Depends on the task. GDDR5 is better for feeding GPUs, DDR4 is better for system RAM.
crazepharmacist
Member
I mean they did make some improvements to the horsepower post launch didn't they? Increasing processor % availability to developers by removing Kinect requirement, etc.
Un-teasted chip inside of a console, they couldn't just jump out the window & make millions of consoles with a full size chip that has never been stress tested in the real world.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
So yeah, like I said, reliability.
Maybe as a side benefit, but the purpose is to improve yields.
JeffG
Member
Not really.
Its to lower costs
They do not want to throw away constructed silicon. This allows them to have a defective rate of around 10% of CU's and still have chips that can be used in the construction of game consoles.
Jaguar Victory
Member
No. Reliability would be a measure of the final product working as intended without failing.
Increasing yields is all about cost benefits. Let's say out of the 44 CU's 75% of the silicon comes out with all 44 operational. If you go down to 42 CU's, 85% of the chips come out operational at 42/44 and if you go down to 40 CU's 95% of the chips come out operational at 40/44. It's more cost effective to have 95% of the chips with 40.
These figures are of course all made up for the sake of explanation. I have no clue what the real yields are.
Colbert
Banned
I wouldn't use those PC product lines as a comparison. They use 1 Polaris core, customize it and then they implement that core 43 times. Than they take one of the other components like CP, customize it and also implement it x times (how many they need). For each and every component. Has nothing to do with what we see on PC GPU. They also use their own memory interface and so on.
The Xbox One had 4 Command Processors (2 for Gfx, 2 for Computer). Will be interesting to see how many are in Scorpio as they did not talk about it yet.
dr_rus
Member
Why are people so sure that Scorpio is based on Polaris when even Neo isn't?
Tripolygon
Banned
Neo is based on Polaris but Sony took the liberty of adding features beyond Polaris.
dr_rus
Member
Sony hasn't took anything, whatever was added was added by AMD (possibly on Sony's request) and all of it came straight from Vega feature set. I don't see why Scorpio's APU will be any different - if anything, I expect a lot more Vega features in it simply because it launches after Vega itself in PC space. I'd say that it's fair to expect basically all new Vega features in Scorpio but the new memory architecture (HBCC/HBM2/tiling).
Locuza
Member
"All" Vega features except HBCC, HBM, the new Rasterizer and the new Pixel Engine and maybe this and that.
It's all in the realm of speculation but if Scorpio doesn't feature the new Front- and Backend the improvements will be much smaller and there wouldn't be so much left what defines Vega.
It's all in the realm of speculation but if Scorpio doesn't feature the new Front- and Backend the improvements will be much smaller and there wouldn't be so much left what defines Vega.
Speaking of PS4 Pro why haven't the number of ROPs been mentioned? I wonder if the ROPs of PS4 Pro GPU been moved to the L2 cache like the Vega GPU
dr_rus
Member
I said pretty much exactly what you shouldn't expect. What is "pixel engine"? No idea, sorry.
Because several are expected to fail during production, PS3 had 7 SPUs, however only 6 were used for the same reason.
It's not for long term reliability, just to make sure that they actually get chips that function at all from production.
Locuza
Member
The Pixel Engine is what AMD calls their ROP-Design.
It might be that Scorpio doesn't have the new Vega Pixel Engine.
A dev hinted in one of the other Scorpio threads that Scorpio actually has less Vega feature-sets than Pro. Didn't Anandtech raise the same point? Too much info too fast haha.
Muppet of a Man
Member
10+% in that situation but that is still pretty excellent for what it is achieving at 4k60
If you read the articles: that's wrong. It can either max the settings or have that headroom.
Also by what metric is Forza very demanding? If you read how they can use static render budgets for individual cars and the track and use a forward renderer the opposite seems more fitting.
Not that any of the choices are bad, but many games don't get away with such simple solutions.
Locuza
Member
The PS4 Pro has an advanced work distributor and double-rate FP16, having even less would basically mean nothing.
It's not specific to Xbox one scorpio, the base model has the same features.
No one really knows yet.
Metalingus5150
Member
Would Scorpio even need those Vega features?