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[Durante]

As noted above - it's reliable enough for most part - although I did not have as positive an impression of fast motions - but again that's difficult to put in VR frame of reference, as opposed to AR (the latter is easier to break )

I disagree with the bolded part -- or at least want to point out its implications.

With AR, when your tracking breaks, objects jitter.
With VR, when your tracking breaks, people puke.

So, while it might be easier to break AR, breaking VR tracking is far more severe in terms of consequences. In AR people have a real world reference that prevents their internal systems from going haywire.

It has nothing to do with that, it depends on where the sensors are. The Lighthouses are 100% dumb devices that does not need to talk to the headset or the computer in any way. They only blast lasers into the playspace so the headset can use that to position itself. Its 100% real inside out tracking with markers.

These microsoft headsets are also inside out but markerless, which has so far not really been a feasible solution. So it will be pretty cool if they work well in peoples homes with all the variations of furnishing and lighting conditions. But it has a big issue, its fairly expensive so you cant just stick it to the controllers which is a big issue for gaming.

That's something still not clear to many (I often see them call the base stations the "lighthouse cameras"), and the true engineering beauty of the system.

I'll happily admit that I've been and continue to be a massive lighthouse fan since I first heard about it. It's so damn elegant, effective and extensible while producing rock-solid results.

We'll see what happens with Fallout. The ability to be IN the Fallout world without having to flail your arms around at an enemy seems like an amazing experience. It would be the same thing as playing in first-person, except the world is all around you instead of on the tv in front of you.

You don't "flail your arms around" in VR, unless you would like to.

You interact naturally with existing objects, in a way which both (a) increases immersion and (b) allows far more delicate, varied and complex inputs far more easily than any traditional control scheme.

When you aim at two different enemies in fully tracked VR, while leaning around an obstacle, that's not cumbersome, it's not flailing, and it doesn't require 3 analog sticks and 12 buttons. You just do it, and it feels amazing.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I also wonder why this big MS VR is almost a low level marketing reveal ? Remember how Kinect was introduced at E3 with all the fanfare ?

My gut tells me this is mainly PC windows store, as Scorpio with Jaguar is not doing a locked 90 FPS at that resolution on allot of stuff.

They've been showing these since last year specifically for PCs and laptops. Gaming was never the main focus of them. Though they do have some HMDs planned to be in the Vive/Rift range, they've mostly been pitching these as cheaper alternatives with a focus on workstation use.

 

[Gnub]

I really hope this revives 3d.

I have only experienced VR with the Samsung VR stuff. I found it to be a really good way to get a cinema experience at home but the gaming aspect was mediocre. With that in mind, i like the fact that this will be available without the controller. $299 is a decent price.

I do not want to upgrade to Win10 though....

 

[Wowfunhappy]

All VR devices look weird and ugly, because they're covering your eyes.

People always joked that about how dumb 3D glasses made you look too, and those were waaaay smaller/simpler devices. Not to mention Google Glass, which was just a tiny rectangle in the corner of one eye.

Head mounted technology just looks stupid.. Get over it.

(I actually don't think people PLAYING VR look dumb at all. They look like they suddenly got really good at mimes.)

I really hope this revives 3d.

3D isn't dead. Tons of 3D movies are still being made, and accompanying 3D BluRays are coming out as well. 3D TV's are admittedly hard to come by nowadays, but there are tons of good 3D projectors as long as you don't mind going that route. And you can use TriDef 3D Ignition or nVidia 3DTV Play to make most PC games render in 3D.

If you want it, the content and the technology is all readily available.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Acer isn't bad but they have had serious quality issues in the past. Hope this works out great though. I'm build a new computer in a year based around vr so the more options the better for me.

 

[cakely]

Please understand that I'm coming from an area of complete ignorance having never touched vr, but i dont see the issue, and I'm hoping maybe you could help:

Let's say I'm aiming my flashlight at an item in front of me. The headset would track my aim accurately.

I then turn my head to look at something behind me, But keep my flashlight pointed at the item in front of me. The headset wouldn't be tracking my flashlight, but the internal sensors would know if the orientation/position of my controller changes during this period, and it would move my flashlight accordingly. Of course if i dont move my controllers during this period, the system would know that too, and keep the flashlight pointed as It is.

This wouldn't be perfectly accurate, but a human typically cant aim accurately at something they aren't looking at. Not only that, but when as i start to face forward again, the system could potential correct any inaccuracy before i even notice. The question is: what is the delta between the fully tracked accuracy and internal sensor accuracy, and wether or not it's big enough to notably impact gameplay. We won't know until we learn how good the controllers sensory is, I can't imagine many scenarios where it would be so big it hurts the game. (But like i said I'm inexperienced)

edit: what I should have said here is that I don't imagine that this limitation can't be adequately designed around, whilst still providing an enjoyable and immersive experience)

Someone mentioned reaching back to grab an arrow out of a quiver: prior to losing track of the controller, the system would know that the player, was in the act of reaching behind himself. Then, due to the gyros, the system would know that the controller is upside down and could safely assume it's behind the player due to its last tracked direction of travel. So it ques the arrow grabbing sequence. Then the system would know the "grab arrow" button was pressed. When the controller is brought back into view of the HMD, the system would have enough info to know a arrow should be in hand and the player could start accurately aiming it.

There are definitely moments in VR where you perform an action with the controller when the controller is out of your field of vision.

For example, in Arkham VR, you can reach down to your utility belt and flick a batarang, grab the grappling hook or grab the forensic scanner. You don't need to look down at your belt to perform any of these actions, because the controller tracking is completely independent of your view.

 

[DarkConfidant]

Ugh. Looks like typical Acer shit design.

Hopefully it works great. It's made by Acer, so I'm mad skeptical.

I want to get into VR, but it still seems too much like a tech fad, like when 3D was the big thing cerca 2011-2013.

 

[Kurt]

Still to expensive.

You still need to buy scorpion and a game for it. How much would the total packet be? Besides vr gaming we see already no games for sony. Oculus rift is supported with gimmick games. Wait for hologlass or something like that. Thats my imo.

 

[Tain]

Still to expensive.

You still need to buy scorpion and a game for it. How much would the total packet be? Besides vr gaming we see already no games for sony. Oculus rift is supported with gimmick games. Wait for hologlass or something like that. Thats my imo.

you gotta buy a house to put all this stuff in, too. sucks.

Seriously though, you haven't been paying attention to VR software. Games like Robo Recall, Battlezone, Chronos, RE7, Polybius, Elite Dangerous, Serious Sam, etc are not "gimmick games".

 

[gafneo]

If Nintendo made VR, I could see them inserting joycons into slots to have that ring.

 

[Trup1aya]

There are definitely moments in VR where you perform an action with the controller when the controller is out of your field of vision.

For example, in Arkham VR, you can reach down to your utility belt and flick a batarang, grab the grappling hook or grab the forensic scanner. You don't need to look down at your belt to perform any of these actions, because the controller tracking is completely independent of your view.

Yeah I understand that now, but I still think these limitations can be designed around.

For example, if the player is reaching to his left, when the controller is lost, the game could safely assume he's reaching for the batarang on his left hip. If the player is reaching to his right, the game can assume he's reaching for the grenade whatever is stored on his right hip. I see no reason why the game NEEDS to know exactly where your hand is at this moment, it just needs to have a good idea of where your hand probably is. Then it can can use the controllers last known position, trajectory, and subsequent user inputs and sensors to figure out what the players intentions are.

It would only need to know the exact location of it were going to render your hand, which would mean you were looking at it.

 

[Ushay]

The fact that they are leaning on 3rd parties for VR shows how much faith MS has in VR (at this stage at least).

 

[Trup1aya]

The fact that they are leaning on 3rd parties for VR shows how much faith MS has in VR (at this stage at least).

How much faith do you think it shows?

Leaning on 3rd parties, to me, seems like they think offering consumers choice is the best path forward for VR... which is the right answer.

I wish they felt this way about other endevours.

 

[cakely]

Yeah I understand that now, that's why I say I think these limitations can be designed around.

For example, if the player is reaching to his left, when the controller is lost, the game could safely assume he's reaching for the batarang on his left hip. If the player is reaching to his right, the game can assume he's reaching for the grenade whatever is stored on his right hip. I see reason why the game NEEDS to know exactly where your hand is at this moment, it just needs to have a good idea of where your hand probably is. Then it can can use the controllers last known position, trajectory, and subsequent user inputs to figure out what the players intentions are.

I'm sure it's possible to design around this limitation, it's just ... interesting. It's a limitation that other VR systems with tracked controllers don't have.

Ok, now that I think about it, Superhot VR, where moving your gun aim makes time move forward, but you can move your head freely, probably wouldn't work at all.

If you're not familiar with the game, watch a video, it's bad-ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQD9xkh-U5U

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

you gotta buy a house to put all this stuff in, too. sucks.

Seriously though, you haven't been paying attention to VR software. Games like Robo Recall, Battlezone, Chronos, RE7, Polybius, Elite Dangerous, Serious Sam, etc are not "gimmick games".

and electricity checkmate

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Yeah I understand that now, but I still think these limitations can be designed around.

For example, if the player is reaching to his left, when the controller is lost, the game could safely assume he's reaching for the batarang on his left hip. If the player is reaching to his right, the game can assume he's reaching for the grenade whatever is stored on his right hip. I see no reason why the game NEEDS to know exactly where your hand is at this moment, it just needs to have a good idea of where your hand probably is. Then it can can use the controllers last known position, trajectory, and subsequent user inputs and sensors to figure out what the players intentions are.

It would only need to know the exact location of it were going to render your hand, which would mean you were looking at it.

Have you played any Vive games? I feel like you wouldn't be saying this if you had a headset (with tracked controllers).

There's just such a wide range of things you can do with your hands—and I'd say you won't be looking at your hands AT LEAST half the time that you actually use them. I don't think software will be able to make assumptions with any degree of accuracy.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Is he actually advocating for less accurate tracking? Certainly you aren't a regular VR user, right?

 

[hanspampel]

What? Vive has always been inside out tracking. Inside out tracking is when the sensors are in the devices being tracked (headset, controllers). Vive has that.

Outside in tracking is where there's an external sensor tracking you, like with the Oculus Rift or PSVR's external cameras. Vive doesn't have any form of external sensor.

No Vive is inside out, the lighthouses are exactly that, lighthouses. They work just like lighthouses do, the ship (vive) sees the lighthouse and can depending on the color(distance) use that to navigate (determine location).

so does the Vive tracking work without lighthouse?
this sounds to me like "yes sensors are internal, but you sill need external lighthouse to be able to track anything"
or is lighthouse just for roomscale and headseat and controller trackings works fine without them?

for me inside out tracking was always "you don't need external stuff for tracking"

 

[Zalusithix]

so does the Vive tracking work without lighthouse?
this sounds to me like "yes sensors are internal, but you sill need external lighthouse to be able to track anything"
or is lighthouse just for roomscale and headseat and controller trackings works fine without them?

for me inside out tracking was always "you don't need external stuff for tracking"

Inside out just means exactly what it says. Position is obtained from the "inside" looking out at the world. How it recognizes the world around it is irrelevant to that. It could be using time of flight cameras, lidar, stereoscopic imaging, fiducial markers, echolocation, etc. Meanwhile outside-in is positional tracking of an object by outside sources looking "in" at the object.

 

[Wardancer]

We'll see what happens with Fallout. The ability to be IN the Fallout world without having to flail your arms around at an enemy seems like an amazing experience. It would be the same thing as playing in first-person, except the world is all around you instead of on the tv in front of you.

You need to actually play some VR games with full motion controllers or at the very least watch someone who plays it (not just a letsplayer doing it for fun). You do not "flail your arms around, you just aim calmly with your hands in a way thats even faster and more accurate than a mouse (just less stable). With a stick you are just completely and utterly handicapped with aiming and action.

so does the Vive tracking work without lighthouse?
this sounds to me like "yes sensors are internal, but you sill need external lighthouse to be able to track anything"
or is lighthouse just for roomscale and headseat and controller trackings works fine without them?

for me inside out tracking was always "you don't need external stuff for tracking"

So you have the wrong definition of inside out, you are possibly thinking of inside out markerless tracking, but even that requires external things... because the cameras have to see something it can use to build its world model from. If you had plain white walls/floor around you a markerless sytem would most likely fail spectacularly.

 

[hanspampel]

point tho is, inside out is just a meaningless buzzword in that case
it does not matter or change anything if it's from the HMD to the lighthouse or vice versa

but yeah i will adjust my term an call it
external tracking


no wonder people not 100% familiar with every aspect of the Vive hardware don't think they have inside out tracking, when they still need external devices for tracking


so what about magic leap?
inside out tracking without external devices and set up, or not?
or vive stuff?

 

[Zalusithix]

If you had plain white walls/floor around you a markerless sytem would most likely fail spectacularly.

Depends on what technology you used to achieve the markerless tracking. Stereoscopic CV analysis of the surrounding environment? Sure it'll be very confused. Something like time of flight cameras / lidar systems wouldn't be affected though unless the environment was painted in vanta-black and didn't reflect any of the emitted light back. Even the vanta-black room would still be trackable with ultrasonic echolocation.

It's all about the method, or combination of methods used that determines the strengths and weaknesses of the tracking.

Edit:

so what about magic leap?

What about it? Other than it possibly being vaporware. We know next to nothing concrete about that system, though it would ostensibly use markerless inside out tracking.

Also, all tracking is "external" to some extent. You need something to base your location on. The only difference is whether that something is a fixed type of object, or whether it's more flexible.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

The fact that they are leaning on 3rd parties for VR shows how much faith MS has in VR (at this stage at least).

Technically this is the same approach as Valve. The Vive isn't manufactured by them, it's by HTC.

 

[Killer Queen]

Works with PC and is cheaper than Occulus and Vive? Dont mind if i do.

 

[Trup1aya]

Have you played any Vive games? I feel like you wouldn't be saying this if you had a headset (with tracked controllers).

There's just such a wide range of things you can do with your hands—and I'd say you won't be looking at your hands AT LEAST half the time that you actually use them. I don't think software will be able to make assumptions with any degree of accuracy.

No I haven't, and I fully understand the argument. I also ageee this can not fully replicate the fidelity of Vive experience.

What I'm saying is, I don't think they have to in order to create an enjoyable and immersive experience. I see no reason, theoretically, why this wouldn't be adequate for many game designers, especially with the added benefit of being cheaper and requiring less hardware.

Full Tracking of controllers obviously offers unparalleled control. But I see no reason why good programming couldn't create good experiences despite the limitations.

Is he actually advocating for less accurate tracking? Certainly you aren't a regular VR user, right?

If you think I'm "advocating" for less accuracy, then you aren't paying attention. Advocating would mean I'm recommending and prefer less accurate hardware. I mean you should be able to read the comments and see this isn't the case.Obviously the more accurate the better. I'm merely speculating that this approach could bring good, immersive, experiences despite being less accurate.

 

[Wardancer]

No I haven't, and I fully understand the argument. I also ageee this can not fully replicate the fidelity of Vive experience.

What I'm saying is, I don't think they have to in order to create an enjoyable and immersive experience. I see no reason, theoretically, why this wouldn't be adequate for many game designers, especially with the added benefit of being cheaper and requiring less hardware.

Full Tracking of controllers obviously offers unparalleled control. But I see no reason why good programming couldn't create good experiences despite the limitations.



If you think I'm "advocating" for less accuracy, then you aren't paying attention. Advocating would mean I'm recommending less accurate hardware. Obviously the more accurate the better. I'm merely speculating that this approach could bring good, immersive, experiences despite being less accurate.

But they have to unless they want to only play games specifically designed for this headset... which isn't really feasible. These things aren't really made for gaming from the looks of things really.

 

[Tain]

It definitely could host a good experience (you can have a great time in VR with a gamepad, after all, if the software is engaging), but it'll make for harder multiplatform development between Vive, Rift, and even PSVR.

 

[Trup1aya]

But they have to unless they want to only play games specifically designed for this headset... which isn't really feasible. These things aren't really made for gaming from the looks of things really.

It definitely could host a good experience (you can have a great time in VR with a gamepad, after all, if the software is engaging), but it'll make for harder multiplatform development between Vive, Rift, and even PSVR.

Good points.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

This page is proof positive that it's incredibly easy to spot people who don't regularly play VR games but try to comment on them.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Looks decent but I'm not confident with the tracking system. The fact you have to be looking at the controller to track it already means the tracking experience will be subpar compared to other high-end VR headsets. Why couldn't they invest in a cheap camera? There will definitely be times when the controller will be out of the user's FOV when tracking.

 

[Trup1aya]

This page is proof positive that it's incredibly easy to spot people who don't regularly play VR games but try to comment on them.

There's no need to 'spot' anything.

My first post was basically " I haven't played vr, please inform me about the limitations of this control method. I then thanked everyone for the insight.

Everyone has been very helpful and informative, except you, who has instead just been contentious and snarky.

Read the thread and get over yourself.

 

[Zalusithix]

Why couldn't they invest in a cheap camera? There will definitely be times when the controller will be out of the user's FOV when tracking.

The focus is more on a simplified (single USB + HDMI cable with no hardware setup), cheaper system that can aid in creation. Stereoscopic front cameras serve double duty and give the unit a level of AR capability along with markerless tracking. The controller tracking occlusion problem becomes much less of an issue when taken in the perspective of modeling, drawing, etc. where your hands are kept in the general vicinity of where you're looking. Keep in mind the cameras should have a wider FoV than the actual headset display, so it's not like you'll need to look directly at your hands for them to work properly. Somewhere within slightly less than the forward hemisphere of where you're looking is much more likely.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

There's no need to 'spot' anything.

My first post was basically " I haven't played vr, please inform me about the limitations of this control method. I then thanked everyone for the insight.

Everyone has been very helpful and informative, except you, who has instead just been contentious and snarky.

Read the thread and get over yourself.

Your ideas make no sense and are based in ignorance.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

What I'm saying is, I don't think they have to in order to create an enjoyable and immersive experience. I see no reason, theoretically, why this wouldn't be adequate for many game designers, especially with the added benefit of being cheaper and requiring less hardware.

I'd agree that non-visible hand tracking is not necessary to create an engaging VR experience. But I could say the same thing about motion controllers in general—or, heck, any controllers at all. I've been playing Eagle Flight VR a lot lately, and while I wouldn't recommend the game to anyone who is susceptible to simulation sickness, flying around Paris is a lot of fun. The game technically requires an Xbox controller for menu navigation and a few other actions, but they could probably be patched out fairly easily, and the game would still work fine with just a headset.

Tracked controllers, however, greatly open up the possibilities of what you can do in VR, and while I like Eagle Flight, I like Robo Recall and SuperHot a lot more. Those games would be completely impossible under Microsoft's system, full stop.

If Microsoft starts encouraging devs to design games around its platform, it's going to further split an already fledging market (and not in a way that a simple compatibility layer like ReVive can solve). Games like SuperHot will become less common, as devs are forced to design around the lowest common denominator for controls.

My hope is that Microsoft will be pushing this system for productivity and will stay away from gaming and entertainment. Should they decide to target gaming as well, I honestly hope their initiative fails.

 

[Trup1aya]

Your ideas make no sense and are based in ignorance.

Literally the first thing I said in this thread is

Please understand that I'm coming from an area of complete ignorance having never touched vr, but i dont see the issue, and I'm hoping maybe you could help:

While everyone else proceeded help, you proceeded to act like an ass.

But thanks for your wisdom

I have no idea why you are being antagonistic and condescending.I came here to learn and discuss, which is kinda what forums are for...

I'd agree that non-visible hand tracking is not necessary to create an engaging VR experience. But I could say the same thing about motion controllers in general—or, heck, any controllers at all. I've been playing Eagle Flight VR a lot lately, and while I wouldn't recommend the game to anyone who is susceptible to simulation sickness, flying around Paris is a lot of fun. The game technically requires an Xbox controller for menu navigation and a few other actions, but they could probably patch that out fairly easily and the game would still work fine.

Tracked controllers, however, greatly open up the possibilities of what you can do in VR, and while I like Eagle Flight, I like Robo Recall and SuperHot a lot more. Those games would be completely impossible under Microsoft's system, full stop.

If Microsoft starts encouraging devs to design games around its platform, it's going to further split an already fledging market (and not in a way that a simple compatibility layer like ReVive can solve). Games like SuperHot will become less common, as devs are forced to design around the lowest common denominator for controls.

My hope is that Microsoft will be pushing this system for productivity and will stay out gaming and entertainment. Should they decide to target gaming as well, I honestly hope their initiative fails.

I think their headset would be a good approach for gaming, but yeah if their controllers would lead to fragmentation, then yeah, it would be better to use something else. It's just nice to think about how affordable this approach could be with some improvements.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

One more thing: The more I think about what Microsoft is aiming for, the less sense it makes to me. If you're going to buy a $400 headset, is setting up one* "marker" on your desk really that much of a problem? The Wii sold like hotcakes, and no one seemed to mind placing a sensor bar above their TV.

By all accounts the Vive's lighthouses are relatively simple technology, so I don't think cost is the primary concern here. Yes, the lighthouses are expensive when you order them separately, but that seems to be more of a "they charge what people are willing to pay" scenario.

Even if Microsoft is primarily focused on AR and productivity, this just seems like a stupid limitation to place on themselves.

*two markers would be preferable, one is still an improvement over their current system.

 

[Trup1aya]

One more thing: The more I think about what Microsoft is aiming for, the less sense it makes to me. If you're going to buy a $400 headset, is setting up one* "marker" on your desk really that much of a problem? The Wii sold like hotcakes, and no one seemed to mind placing a sensor bar above their TV.

By all accounts the Vive's lighthouses are relatively simple technology, so I don't think cost is the primary concern here. Yes, the lighthouses are expensive when you order them separately, but that seems to be more of a "they charge what people are willing to pay" scenario.

Even if Microsoft is primarily focused on AR and productivity, this just seems like a stupid limitation to place on themselves.

*two markers would preferable, one is still an improvement over their current system.

Well there's no indication that these particular controllers are intended for gaming.

Most xb1 owners either have a Kinect or IR blaster. Could that potentially be used to improve tracking on a controller.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Most xb1 owners either have a Kinect or IR blaster. Could that potentially be used to improve tracking on a controller.

I think Kinect would have too much latency to be useful in VR, but I'd love to be proven wrong. I've only ever used the old Xbox 360 Kinect, and I know the new one is a lot better.

That said, Microsoft has been selling the XB1 sans Kinect for several years now, I don't think it's safe to say that "most" owners have them anymore. And that IR blaster is going to be completely useless.

Even for productivity, while the compromise makes more sense I don't think I'd want to play Tilt Brush with controllers that stop working as soon as I look away.

The controller tracking occlusion problem becomes much less of an issue when taken in the perspective of modeling, drawing, etc. where your hands are kept in the general vicinity of where you're looking. Keep in mind the cameras should have a wider FoV than the actual headset display, so it's not like you'll need to look directly at your hands for them to work properly. Somewhere within slightly less than the forward hemisphere of where you're looking is much more likely.

Have you ever taken an art class? When we did figure drawing, there was a huge emphasis on: "Don't look at what you're drawing; look at the model, and make your hands follow what your eyes see." We of course quickly glanced at the paper every few seconds or so, but we were supposed to be mostly looking the other way.

 

[Trup1aya]

I think Kinect would have too much latency to be useful in VR, but I'd love to be proven wrong. I've only ever used the old Xbox 360 Kinect, and I know the new one is a lot better.

That said, Microsoft has been selling the XB1 sans Kinect for several years now, I don't think it's safe to say that "most" owners have them anymore. And that IR blaster is going to be completely useless.

Even for productivity, while the compromise makes more sense I don't think I'd want to play Tilt Brush with controllers that stop working as soon as I look away.



Have you ever taken an art class? When we did figure drawing, there was a huge emphasis on: "Don't look at what you're drawing; look at the model, and make your hands follow what your eyes see." We of course quickly glanced at the paper every few seconds or so, but we were supposed to be mostly looking the other way.

I See what your getting at.

Shouldn't we expect that the FOV of the tracking cameras is much larger than the FOV of the hmd though? I can't imagine that you'd have to be looking at your hands in order for this to work for productivity.

 

[Zalusithix]

Most xb1 owners either have a Kinect or IR blaster. Could that potentially be used to improve tracking on a controller.

No. The latency of the Kinect's depth map, even if it was accurate enough would make it unsuitable for VR use.

Have you ever taken an art class? When we did figure drawing, there was a huge emphasis on: "Don't look at what you're drawing; look at the model, and make your hands follow what your eyes see." We of course quickly glanced at the paper every few seconds or so, but we were supposed to be mostly looking the other way.

Did you read my quote fully?

Keep in mind the cameras should have a wider FoV than the actual headset display, so it's not like you'll need to look directly at your hands for them to work properly. Somewhere within slightly less than the forward hemisphere of where you're looking is much more likely.

Unless you were drawing while looking at something that was 90 degrees to your side, your hands were likely within the forward facing hemisphere of where you were looking.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Unless you were drawing while looking at something that was 90 degrees to your side, your hands were likely within the forward facing hemisphere of where you were looking.

I guess it depends on just how much wider that camera FOV is. It wasn't a full 90 degrees away, but it wasn't anywhere in my periphery.

 

[cakely]

Well there's no indication that these particular controllers are intended for gaming.

Most xb1 owners either have a Kinect or IR blaster. Could that potentially be used to improve tracking on a controller.

I don't believe that this is case. As soon as Kinect wasn't packed in with the Xbox One, it's sales numbers dropped to almost nothing.

So, count how many Xbox One's were sold until June 9th, 2014 and you've probably got a decent idea of how many Kinects have been sold. I think that was around 4.8M units by July 2014, so that's a decent ballpark figure.

 

[Trup1aya]

I don't believe that this is case. As soon as Kinect wasn't packed in with the Xbox One, it's sales numbers dropped to almost nothing.

So, count how many Xbox One's were sold until June 9th, 2014 and you've probably got a decent idea of how many Kinects have been sold. I think that was around 4.8M units by July 2014, so that's a decent ballpark figure.

Perhaps... I dunno how many kinectless OGS they sold before they started shipping xb1s w/ ir blasters... seems to be a moot point if this would introduce latency.

On another note, how exactly does the Vive track controllers?

 

[Wollan]

So it seems this HMD is actually using a LCD screen and not OLED:
https://twitter.com/kentbye/status/863102537418686464

"Modern VR needs low persistence OLED. You can see DK1-era LCD ghosting on Acer VR HMD when turning head quickly, esp on MSFT Datascape demo"

Garbage-tier if so.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

So it seems this HMD is actually using a LCD screen and not OLED:
https://twitter.com/kentbye/status/863102537418686464

"Modern VR needs low persistence OLED. You can see DK1-era LCD ghosting on Acer VR HMD when turning head quickly, esp on MSFT Datascape demo"

Garbage-tier if so.

...Okay, WTF is Microsoft actually doing? This is VR 101. This is the first thing that Oculus fixed after their original Devkit.

 

[Lorcain]

i think the price of entry is good enough for gaming enthusiasts since they would already own a good enough PC

I was thinking the same thing, $400 is enthusiast territory. It's still not a good price point for mainstream consumers, but I doubt that's the intended market at this point.

I'm sure they will do a Scorpio + VR bundle.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Huh, the review linked to in the tweet indicated the screens were fine...? http://www.revvrstudios.com/product-review-acer-mixed-reality-headset

I know several people were saying that an LCD screen is a terrible step backward in terms of technology, since the other mainstream HMDs have AMOLED screens. I can honestly say that the screen really impressed me. I was expecting terrible clarity, inadequate framerate, and washed out color. Nope. The screen was impressive and if nobody had told me it was an LCD screen, I would have never guessed it. LCD doesn't have black blurring, like the AMOLED screens have, which I did notice.

 

[dLMN8R]

The main question to answer is whether LCD screens simply result in worse picture quality, or whether they result in inducing motion sickness.

If the only difference is picture quality, and it doesn't necessarily induce discomfort, then this seems fine? It's great to have lower-cost options available which present a slightly worse experience as long as it's not causing people to puke all of the place.

 

[Tain]

So it seems this HMD is actually using a LCD screen and not OLED:
https://twitter.com/kentbye/status/863102537418686464

"Modern VR needs low persistence OLED. You can see DK1-era LCD ghosting on Acer VR HMD when turning head quickly, esp on MSFT Datascape demo"

Garbage-tier if so.

uhhhh the hell

 

[Wowfunhappy]

The main question to answer is whether LCD screens simply result in worse picture quality, or whether they result in inducing motion sickness.

If the only difference is picture quality, and it doesn't necessarily induce discomfort, then this seems fine? It's great to have lower-cost options available which present a slightly worse experience as long as it's not causing people to puke all of the place.

Google Cardboard with an iPhone (iPhone = LCD screen) never made me sick per se, but the way everything blurred when I turned my head was dizzying, which discouraged actually looking around. It wasn't something I'd ever want to do for more than ten minutes.

I'm lucky in that I'm basically immune to VR sickness, but there's a large divide between "not sick" and "actually pleasant"