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[Zalusithix]

Real-life actions are only fun for a while, then they get really old. There's a reason "comfy couch" is an argument. Do you really want to physically crouch every time you need to hide behind cover? Especially if you're playing against standard-control players, you'd get massacred every time.


I'm of the opinion that the VR system should be compatible with traditional games, and also allow for new experiences. By cutting out the things we're all accustomed to, you eliminate most of the fanbase.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see a game being as popular as Call of Duty if players have to physically run around the room to play.

What I want, basically, is an ARMA-style control scheme, where you can turn the head independently of the body, but all other controls are traditional. It makes you feel like you're truly in the game, but you're not handicapped in the actual gameplay.

I can't be alone on this one. Surely there are other players who basically just want a screen taped to their face to feel like the game is surrounding you, but everything else is what we're used to. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm in the minority. I just know that if I there was an Xbox controller chopped in half, and each half had motion controls (but also all the buttons) paired with a VR helmet, I'd buy that thing the moment it was unveiled.

If you go with motion controls, you go the full immersion route. If you don't want the movement/interaction immersion, then just play with a normal controller. Going half and half just leaves you with an awkward situation that has the downsides of both worlds with little to show for it.

Either way, you're kind of out of luck: motion controllers in VR are moving in the opposite direction of what you want. The goal for them is more natural interpretations of the hand's actions, not loading up with lots of arbitrary buttons. For instance, the grip buttons of this gen will be gone in the next in favor of full capacitive sensing.

 

[I_D]

.

Close, but not quite there, unfortunately.

Players shouldn't have to take their thumb away from the joystick to press a button. This method eliminates the ability to move while performing actions which is a complete deal-breaker. The Oculus controller also has really weird triggers, which aren't desirable either but that's mostly a preference thing.

If you go with motion controls, you go the full immersion route. If you don't want the movement/interaction immersion, then just play with a normal controller. Going half and half just leaves you with an awkward situation that has the downsides of both worlds with little to show for it.

That's what I'm talking about, though. Current VR controllers don't let players choose. It's either full-immersion or half-assed VR. The controllers should be able to do both.

Just put traditional buttons on a motion controller and the problem is solved. You get the ability to run around your living room without having to switch to an entirely different input method when you get tired.

We'll see what happens with Fallout. The ability to be IN the Fallout world without having to flail your arms around at an enemy seems like an amazing experience. It would be the same thing as playing in first-person, except the world is all around you instead of on the tv in front of you.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Close, but not quite there, unfortunately.

Players shouldn't have to take their thumb away from the joystick to press a button. This method eliminates the ability to move while performing actions which is a complete deal-breaker. The Oculus controller also has really weird triggers, which aren't desirable either but that's mostly a preference thing.



That's what I'm talking about, though. Current VR controllers don't let players choose. It's either full-immersion or half-assed VR. The controllers should be able to do both.

Just put traditional buttons on a motion controller and the problem is solved. You get the ability to run around your living room without having to switch to an entirely different input method when you get tired.

We'll see what happens with Fallout. The ability to be IN the Fallout world without having to flail your arms around at an enemy seems like an amazing experience. It would be the same thing as playing in first-person, except the world is all around you instead of on the tv in front of you.

You still have the right hand 2 buttons to press plus the triggers plus both the grips (plus the right menu button), that can be used for other things while still keeping your left hand on the analog. If there's any motion control aspects at all, it takes away the need for immediate access to (two) more face buttons. Onward for example, lets you do as much and even more than your average non-VR shooter. It incorporates the standard analog locomotion, plus a couple buttons, but the context sensitive motion controls let you use your grab/trigger buttons for different things depending on the location of the controllers in the virtual world. More specifically, you can reload, grab/throw grenades, grab your syringe, change your rate of fire, grab your map, look at your watch etc. all with one button in combination with motion.

You're vastly underestimating what these controls can do. They aren't a crutch at all. Also keep in mind your head is your camera so you don't need your right analog for that. The only way I see it being a crutch is if you're playing a game that was designed for a controller that was adapted to VR. Even then, you'll still probably use your head to turn which eliminates the right analog which can be used for other things, in fact you can do right/left/up/down on the analog while clicking and it's essentially 4 different buttons.

Question for you: have you used the Touch controls? I'm blown away by what they can do, it opens up a world beyond pressing different buttons for every different action, replacing it with context sensitive action which is incredible. Now if you were talking about the Move controllers, I'd understand. Those don't even have analogs.

 

[QuantumSquid]

That headset looks ugly.

Yeah, I'm sticking with my HTC Vive:

...

 

[Wollan]

Sceptical about that inside-out tracking.
Lack of precision is not a problem for AR/Hololens since the real world remains in view.
One split-second off in VR and there will be a womit comet.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Decent price and if it has room scale that would differentiate it from PSVR at a matching price. Too bad Vive and Occulus aren't compatible. No one is buying multiple VR headsets at these prices except game journalists.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

This sounds amazing! 1440 in each eye is higher than Vive/Oculus? Any hand's on?

Also does this mean native Minecraft VR?

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

That feature is in no way unique to PSVR. Both the Oculus Rift and the Vive have the option to mirror unwarped video to a monitor, and generally do it by default.

Oh I know PC VR can do it too, but it will be a little more accessible to people with PSVR, as more people will have their PS4 + PSVR connected to their main TV, compared to a PC connected to their TV, that's all. It's just a lot easier to have everyone in the main room, sat on the sofa, looking at the big TV, than gather around a PC desk to look at a smaller monitor.

 

[Wardancer]

You would only be missing if the tracking is completely inaccurate, seeing how even a wii mote+ can have a decent tracking for a while after loosing the camera out of sight that might not be an issue, but I have no idea how accurate the sensors actually are or how their IK system to correct position might work, so perhaps it's indeed unsuitable for that. And my VR experience was using regular controllers only, so I wouldn't even know what's required or not.


Sure, but in that scenario there would be little hand translation and more tilt movement, which is usually quite accurate with sensors only. The position of the flashlight into the world might not be exactly precise, but I don't think there would be trouble adjusting the angle correctly. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

Thats only if you stand still, what happens when you turn around? (which believe it or not is quite common in VR...) What happens to the flashlight then because it moves pretty significantly in 3d space.

The controller does not look different than Vive Controller or Oculus Touch
The tracking scheme is arguably better than external tracking
What social stigma?
Several multi billion Dollar industries, the education market, military and science is already interested and invested in MixtReality


But maybe i just fell for the bait....

The tracking scheme is not arguably better than external tracking (or inside out tracking ala vive) in anyway, especially not for the controllers. It might be less hassle to set it up for the headset but that's it.

What I want, basically, is an ARMA-style control scheme, where you can turn the head independently of the body, but all other controls are traditional. It makes you feel like you're truly in the game, but you're not handicapped in the actual gameplay.

I can't be alone on this one. Surely there are other players who basically just want a screen taped to their face to feel like the game is surrounding you, but everything else is what we're used to. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm in the minority. I just know that if I there was an Xbox controller chopped in half, and each half had motion controls (but also all the buttons) paired with a VR helmet, I'd buy that thing the moment it was unveiled.

No that would not feel like you are in the game in anyway, it would feel like a screen strapped to your face playing a normal game. Also traditional controllers are extremely handicapping in "actual gameplay" so I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Also those controllers exist, see Touch. Have you even seen Onward/Pavlov/Arizona Sunshine etc on the Vive or Rift? Especially Onward with your Arma comment. If you wanna feel like you are in the game, you are gonna be ducking behind cover, or even going prone when you are trying to take cover from supressive fire. But like most of the time when playing a game with artificial movement you are standing in the center of your playspace and rotating to turn, but otherwise not a lot. Most of the movements you do is looking down the sights of your weapon and reloading.

 

[ArtHands]

Decent price and if it has room scale that would differentiate it from PSVR at a matching price. Too bad Vive and Occulus aren't compatible. No one is buying multiple VR headsets at these prices except game journalists.

Well not everyone has a VR headsets now though. Its even cheaper albeit it seems it will have PSVR tier of tracking. After all, you pay for what you get.

 

[Reallink]

This sounds amazing! 1440 in each eye is higher than Vive/Oculus? Any hand's on?

Also does this mean native Minecraft VR?

Vive/Rift are 1080x1200, but they're OLED's. These are unfortunately LCD's, with all that entails. Calibration on the displays will likely also be shit-tier at these price points. Native Minecraft has been out on Rift for like a year, official support, not a mod or hack.

 

[Trup1aya]

Thats only if you stand still, what happens when you turn around? (which believe it or not is quite common in VR...) What happens to the flashlight then because it moves pretty significantly in 3d space.

Please understand that I'm coming from an area of complete ignorance having never touched vr, but i dont see the issue, and I'm hoping maybe you could help:

Let's say I'm aiming my flashlight at an item in front of me. The headset would track my aim accurately.

I then turn my head to look at something behind me, But keep my flashlight pointed at the item in front of me. The headset wouldn't be tracking my flashlight, but the internal sensors would know if the orientation/position of my controller changes during this period, and it would move my flashlight accordingly. Of course if i dont move my controllers during this period, the system would know that too, and keep the flashlight pointed as It is.

This wouldn't be perfectly accurate, but a human typically cant aim accurately at something they aren't looking at. Not only that, but when as i start to face forward again, the system could potential correct any inaccuracy before i even notice. The question is: what is the delta between the fully tracked accuracy and internal sensor accuracy, and wether or not it's big enough to notably impact gameplay. We won't know until we learn how good the controllers sensory is, I can't imagine many scenarios where it would be so big it hurts the game. (But like i said I'm inexperienced)

edit: what I should have said here is that I don't imagine that this limitation can't be adequately designed around, whilst still providing an enjoyable and immersive experience)

Someone mentioned reaching back to grab an arrow out of a quiver: prior to losing track of the controller, the system would know that the player, was in the act of reaching behind himself. Then, due to the gyros, the system would know that the controller is upside down and could safely assume it's behind the player due to its last tracked direction of travel. So it ques the arrow grabbing sequence. Then the system would know the "grab arrow" button was pressed. When the controller is brought back into view of the HMD, the system would have enough info to know a arrow should be in hand and the player could start accurately aiming it.

 

[SomTervo]

Size, weight and price are some major factors unless he is talking ability only

I took it to mean the tech/systems aren't ready yet.

Which they are, they just need to mature in terms of production

 

[SomTervo]

Perhaps this is only for simple things, but that just makes me ask "what's the point?"
Do you really want to spend hundreds of dollars.... to paint?


Real-life actions are only fun for a while, then they get really old. There's a reason "comfy couch" is an argument. Do you really want to physically crouch every time you need to hide behind cover? Especially if you're playing against standard-control players, you'd get massacred every time.


I'm of the opinion that the VR system should be compatible with traditional games, and also allow for new experiences. By cutting out the things we're all accustomed to, you eliminate most of the fanbase.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see a game being as popular as Call of Duty if players have to physically run around the room to play.

What I want, basically, is an ARMA-style control scheme, where you can turn the head independently of the body, but all other controls are traditional. It makes you feel like you're truly in the game, but you're not handicapped in the actual gameplay.

I can't be alone on this one. Surely there are other players who basically just want a screen taped to their face to feel like the game is surrounding you, but everything else is what we're used to. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm in the minority. I just know that if I there was an Xbox controller chopped in half, and each half had motion controls (but also all the buttons) paired with a VR helmet, I'd buy that thing the moment it was unveiled.

A) there's usually options for that
B) loads of games already have it implemented, im sure ArmA can have it VorpX'd in right now
C) that's the way you're most likely to get very, very sick. Making your vision move (ie moving in game with a joypad) will cause your inner ear to get fucked up at the feeling of inertia and motion sickness kicks in

There are ways around it but it's the riskiest method

 

[Possumowner]

Interesting,not a bad price either.All comes down to the quality of of it all though.But having not yet jumped into pc vr,this interests me,as I'm currently priced out of Vive.

 

[Cuburt]

At the very least, it gives me a reason to watch Microsoft's E3 conference to see what they have up their sleeve.

I've been more interested in PC VR, but not interested at the price of Vive and Oculus, especially when better iterations are bound to come. If Microsoft strikes a good balance between price and performance, it might jump in sooner, but we'll see. PSVR didn't convince me either.

 

[Trup1aya]

Is it really that tough to make a motion controller which also includes standardized buttons? I feel like this is one of the major issues holding VR back, and none of the companies seem to realize it.


Look at this thing. How are you supposed to play Halo or Gears without buttons?
I get that the touch-pad can simulate buttons, but I've never actually seen any do a good job of it. Even the Steam controller isn't as tactile and functional as a traditional button-laden controller.


That said, the price point is hard to beat, especially if the tech is halfway decent. If it works with Windows, too, this is looking pretty darn nice.

Seems to me like there are enough buttons to play halo. Some actions would be replaced with gestures.

 

[Elephant]

That headset is ugly, it looks like it came out of a Kinder egg. Although I suppose you don't spend much time looking at it when it's on your face.

Digging the controllers though.

 

[Stiler]

Why is every VR company going with controllers? It's VR... they should be looking toward a glove based type of control system where people put them on and interact naturally like you'd expect to in Vr, grabbing/pulling/holdings things with full freedom, not sticking a joystick in your hand and having it be restricted to that.

 

[Trup1aya]

Why is every VR company going with controllers? It's VR... they should be looking toward a glove based type of control system where people put them on and interact naturally like you'd expect to in Vr, grabbing/pulling/holdings things with full freedom, not sticking a joystick in your hand and having it be restricted to that.

Because physical inputs are much easier to interpret and allow you to trigger actions that players wouldn't/couldn't perform physically.

That sounds good for a game based solely around hand gestures. But how would you trigger an action that doesn't involve ones hands... like kicking.

 

[Wardancer]

Please understand that I'm coming from an area of complete ignorance having never touched vr, but i dont see the issue, and I'm hoping maybe you could help:

Let's say I'm aiming my flashlight at an item in front of me. The headset would track my aim accurately.

I then turn my head to look at something behind me, But keep my flashlight pointed at the item in front of me. The headset wouldn't be tracking my flashlight, but the internal sensors would know if the orientation/position of my controller changes during this period, and it would move my flashlight accordingly. Of course if i dont move my controllers during this period, the system would know that too, and keep the flashlight pointed as It is.

This wouldn't be perfectly accurate, but a human typically cant aim accurately at something they aren't looking at. Not only that, but when as i start to face forward again, the system could potential correct any inaccuracy before i even notice. The question is: what is the delta between the fully tracked accuracy and internal sensor accuracy, and wether or not it's big enough to notably impact gameplay. I can't imagine many scenarios where it would be so big. (But like i said I'm inexperienced l

Someone mentioned reaching back to grab an arrow out of a quiver: prior to losing track of the controller, the system would know that the player, was in the act of reaching behind himself. Then, due to the gyros, the system would know that the controller is upside down and could safely assume it's behind the player due to its last tracked direction of travel. So it ques the arrow grabbing sequence. Then the system would know the "grab arrow" button was pressed. When the controller is brought back into view of the HMD, the system would have enough info to know a arrow should be in hand and the player could start accurately aiming it.

I was specifically talking about holding your flashlight at say waist level which is outside the headsets viewpoint (or in any other stance where a hand blocks the headset from seeing the controller) it would theoretically be fine (if other controllers are anything to go by it wont) but when you turn around 90 degrees with your entire body because you heard a noise, the tracking for the flashlight would go all over the place unless they truly have some magic in there.

But like you and others keep using "it wont track perfectly" as if that means its just gonna be off by a few millimeters or something, that isn't the case if you use only gyros etc, it will most likely drift several cm or even half a meter off base very quickly.

And take something like Onward, you have ammo in your belt, so to reload you first press the mag release and reach down for your spare magasine, put it in the gun, hit bolt release. You really do not want to have to look at your belt to be able to reliable grab a magasine, you want to be looking for enemies. Most of these games have multiple pieces of equipment on your body such as pistols, grenades, healing items etc so it has to be pretty consistent tracking for this to work.

And like its not about you aiming perfectly, its you knowing where your hand is and what your hand is doing, if the tracking starts to slide around when you are not looking your flashlight or whatever will move all over the place and its gonna feel like shit. Like any micro movements that isn't your hand is immediately super obvious. Just shooting a bow can be problematic with this headset since the hand holding the arrow might very well be outside your tracking, and if that hand moves how will you aim if the game uses natural two handed aiming?

As for the delta when tracked or on purely gyros etc. I can only speak for the current devices: Vive and Oculus Rift and if you occlude the sensors from the camera there the delta is MASSIVE, your hands will slide all over the place and wobble a LOT. The camera/lasers are there to correct that drift because the gyros are not good at keeping track of start/stops. So if these work anything like that they will be utterly useless outside the headsets field of view. Now they might have created a solution that works via some very smart design or better senors but until that has been shown to work reliably I am extremely skeptical that these will be practical for any sort of gaming purposes other than using the headsets for simulators etc.

Vive/Rift are 1080x1200, but they're OLED's. These are unfortunately LCD's, with all that entails. Calibration on the displays will likely also be shit-tier at these price points. Native Minecraft has been out on Rift for like a year, official support, not a mod or hack.

Interestingly enough the current VR mods for minecraft are much more complete than the official VR versions and make a lot more use of the motion controls for things like shooting climbing, bows and fighting, they also have more options for locomotion (teleport, joystick etc.) So native Minecraft VR isnt all that exiting tbh, use the mods instead.

 

[hanspampel]

The tracking scheme is not arguably better than external tracking (or inside out tracking ala vive) in anyway, especially not for the controllers. It might be less hassle to set it up for the headset but that's it.

what?
vive does not have inside out tracking
THIS is inside out tracking

 

[geordiemp]

Sounds like a good system, but my thoughts are that a 1440 display x 2 and requiring 90 FPS locked is quite a requirement.

It will require a big PC to run VR games at 90 locked I would imagine, big GPU but also big CPU for the frame rate.

I also wonder why this big MS VR is almost a low level marketing reveal ? Remember how Kinect was introduced at E3 with all the fanfare ?

My gut tells me this is mainly PC windows store, as Scorpio with Jaguar is not doing a locked 90 FPS at that resolution on allot of stuff.

 

[Dehnus]

I really hope we get some glasses wearers to test these headsets! We spectacular spectacle fans need to know this stuff! .

 

[Bgamer90]

Still not very interested in VR but that's a pretty solid price.

 

[Grinchy]

Why is every VR company going with controllers? It's VR... they should be looking toward a glove based type of control system where people put them on and interact naturally like you'd expect to in Vr, grabbing/pulling/holdings things with full freedom, not sticking a joystick in your hand and having it be restricted to that.

lol of course we all want that, but that's like expecting a 4K TV back when the Atari 2600 was out.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Sounds like a good system, but my thoughts are that a 1440 display x 2 and requiring 90 FPS locked is quite a requirement.

It will require a big PC to run VR games at 90 locked I would imagine, big GPU but also big CPU for the frame rate.

My gut tells me this is mainly PC windows store, as Scorpio with Jaguar is not doing a locked 90 FPS at that resolution on allot of stuff.

I'm sure they will figure it out, I mean if Sony can get standard PS4 to do VR, I'm sure MS can get Scorpio to run VR too. Also most VR games don't have top end graphics, like we get in standard AAA games, so graphics would be at a level where the CPU can handle the framerate.

 

[slit]

Glad VR didn't flop. I really like having a different way to play when I'm in the mood.

 

[Sir Doom]

Gimme a version of Forza Horizon VR then maybe this and Xbox One

 

[Dagobert Duck]

Glad VR didn't flop. I really like having a different way to play when I'm in the mood.

Isnt it too early to say that? As far as Im concerned VR still is kinda niche...

 

[Trup1aya]

I was specifically talking about holding your flashlight at say waist level which is outside the headsets viewpoint (or in any other stance where a hand blocks the headset from seeing the controller) it would theoretically be fine (if other controllers are anything to go by it wont) but when you turn around 90 degrees with your entire body because you heard a noise, the tracking for the flashlight would go all over the place unless they truly have some magic in there.

But like you and others keep using "it wont track perfectly" as if that means its just gonna be off by a few millimeters or something, that isn't the case if you use only gyros etc, it will most likely drift several cm or even half a meter off base very quickly.

And take something like Onward, you have ammo in your belt, so to reload you first press the mag release and reach down for your spare magasine, put it in the gun, hit bolt release. You really do not want to have to look at your belt to be able to reliable grab a magasine, you want to be looking for enemies. Most of these games have multiple pieces of equipment on your body such as pistols, grenades, healing items etc so it has to be pretty consistent tracking for this to work

...
.

Thanks for the insight.

It still seems to me that these limitations can be designed around with proper extrapolation and quality internal sensory, but failing that I can understand why the quality of the experience would be severely degraded.

For example if the hmd saw you move your flashlight hand towards your hip before it lost track, it could safely assume that's where it is. As long as it remains out of sight, it seems digital compass sensory should be to adequately interpret what the player is doing. (Keep in mind I have no idea what's in these things)

We all agree that the precision of complete tracking is superior. But there is value in not requiring extra hardware, and it seems to me that some good engineering could provide a similar enough experience in many cases.

Again thanks for painting that picture for me. I need to try some vr so I don't have to talk out of my ass.

Edit: is two handed bow aiming a thing? I thought the forward hand aims, while the other just pulls and holds the spring.

 

[Auto-Reply]

lol of course we all want that, but that's like expecting a 4K TV back when the Atari 2600 was out.

Also, a glove would have to be really advanced in more ways than most people think of. When you hold something in your hand in VR, Pistol/Sword, anything build like a handle/grip, then a simple glove would be inferior to what we already have. Because we have a physical object now that we can feel in our hands. That would be gone with a simple glove that doesn't simulate pressure and resistance to different parts of your hand and fingers.
Of course in theory we could use what we already have combined with a simple glove, get feedback from both.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Why is every VR company going with controllers? It's VR... they should be looking toward a glove based type of control system where people put them on and interact naturally like you'd expect to in Vr, grabbing/pulling/holdings things with full freedom, not sticking a joystick in your hand and having it be restricted to that.

I'd imagine it's because more then one person might use VR in the household? Who the heck wants to slip on a pair of sweaty Cheetos lined gloves that someone else just used??

 

[Steel]

Why is every VR company going with controllers? It's VR... they should be looking toward a glove based type of control system where people put them on and interact naturally like you'd expect to in Vr, grabbing/pulling/holdings things with full freedom, not sticking a joystick in your hand and having it be restricted to that.

The touch feels like your hand and additionally allows artificial locomotion in games like Arizona Sunshine. It's a good design for many uses. I couldn't see a mech game or space flight game working with gloves either due to lack of tactile feedback(which the touch is very good at giving).

I'd imagine it's because more then one person might use VR in the household? Who the heck wants to slip on a pair of sweaty Cheetos lined gloves that someone else just used??

TBH, foam in the headsets themselves gets pretty grody.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Isnt it too early to say that? As far as Im concerned VR still is kinda niche...

It's niche but that doesn't mean it's a flop either. VR seems to be slowly growing, with more games / applications being released all the time and new headsets / controllers with lower prices. If that continues then VR will become way more mainstream eventually, it just won't do it over night. VR is only just getting started, it's not looking like it will be a flop now.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

Why is every VR company going with controllers? It's VR... they should be looking toward a glove based type of control system where people put them on and interact naturally like you'd expect to in Vr, grabbing/pulling/holdings things with full freedom, not sticking a joystick in your hand and having it be restricted to that.

Power Glove! It's so bad!

 

[pastrami]

what?
vive does not have inside out tracking
THIS is inside out tracking

Vive is inside out tracking. The sensors are on the controllers and headset, the lighthouses are just markers. The problem with Microsoft's controllers is that while the headset is inside out tracking, the controllers are not.

Thanks for the insight.

It still seems to me that these limitations can be designed around with proper extrapolation and quality internal sensory, but failing that I can understand why the quality of the experience would be severely degraded.

For example if the hmd saw you move your flashlight hand towards your hip before it lost track, it could safely assume that's where it is. As long as it remains out of sight, it seems digital compass sensory should be to adequately interpret what the player is doing. (Keep in mind I have no idea what's in these things)

We all agree that the precision of complete tracking is superior. But there is value in not requiring extra hardware, and it seems to me that some good engineering could provide a similar enough experience in many cases.

Again thanks for painting that picture for me. I need to try some vr so I don't have to talk out of my ass.

Edit: is two handed bow aiming a thing? I thought the forward hand aims, while the other just pulls and holds the spring.

Just a few other examples, throwing something underhanded, throwing something overhanded, the flashlight example already discussed, hip firing, and reaching for things on your body (inventory stuff). These are just a few things I've done in VR with the Vive, all of which are hard to imagine without proper tracking of the controllers outside of the headset's FOV.

 

[slit]

Isnt it too early to say that? As far as Im concerned VR still is kinda niche...

I'm pretty confident after Sony's latest reports on the PSVR and the fact that MS is now going to release a headset we can say it's not a flash in the pan. It still being niche is a separate issue. It won't be for long.

 

[Vash63]

what?
vive does not have inside out tracking
THIS is inside out tracking

What? Vive has always been inside out tracking. Inside out tracking is when the sensors are in the devices being tracked (headset, controllers). Vive has that.

Outside in tracking is where there's an external sensor tracking you, like with the Oculus Rift or PSVR's external cameras. Vive doesn't have any form of external sensor.

 

[Wardancer]

what?
vive does not have inside out tracking
THIS is inside out tracking

No Vive is inside out, the lighthouses are exactly that, lighthouses. They work just like lighthouses do, the ship (vive) sees the lighthouse and can depending on the color(distance) use that to navigate (determine location).

Thanks for the insight.

It still seems to me that these limitations can be designed around with proper extrapolation and quality internal sensory, but failing that I can understand why the quality of the experience would be severely degraded.

For example if the hmd saw you move your flashlight hand towards your hip before it lost track, it could safely assume that's where it is. As long as it remains out of sight, it seems digital compass sensory should be to adequately interpret what the player is doing. (Keep in mind I have no idea what's in these things)

We all agree that the precision of complete tracking is superior. But there is value in not requiring extra hardware, and it seems to me that some good engineering could provide a similar enough experience in many cases.

Again thanks for painting that picture for me. I need to try some vr so I don't have to talk out of my ass.

Edit: is two handed bow aiming a thing? I thought the forward hand aims, while the other just pulls and holds the spring.

The rear hand pulls the string, and moves the arrow left/right/up/down this does fine adjustment of the aim.

Edit: The rear hand also holds the arrow still so if you move your front hand the angle of the arrow changes.

 

[ArtHands]

Why is every VR company going with controllers? It's VR... they should be looking toward a glove based type of control system where people put them on and interact naturally like you'd expect to in Vr, grabbing/pulling/holdings things with full freedom, not sticking a joystick in your hand and having it be restricted to that.

Thats also actually coming in the near future too. HTC has distributed the Vive trackers to the developers, who are incorporating them into the VR games now. You should start seeing them late 2017/early 2018. But since these gloves are not pack-in I doubt many contents will make use of them in the near future.

But I think VR contents shouldnt be restricted to just the motion controllers either. It should have the freedom for all sorts of inputs, from gamepad, to gloves, etc.

 

[Auto-Reply]

No Vive is inside out, the lighthouses are exactly that, lighthouses. They work just like lighthouses do, the ship (vive) sees the lighthouse and can depending on the color(distance) use that to navigate (determine location).

I thought this was more related to what is tracking what, inside out is always from the device itself without having to rely on external input, or getting that input from something that the HMD itself is sending out. Without lighthouse boxes the Vive would stop functioning, a real inside out HMD doesn't need that? (maybe I always understood that term wrong?)

 

[pastrami]

I thought this was more related to what is tracking what, inside out is always from the device itself without having to rely on external input, or getting that input from something that the HMD itself is sending out. Without lighthouse boxes the Vive would stop functioning, a real inside out HMD doesn't need that? (maybe I always understood that term wrong?)

Microsoft's tracking is markerless, but both Vive and Microsoft's methods are inside out tracking. Both rely on the sensors inside the headset to track position. The Rift and PSVR rely on an external camera for tracking.

 

[Wardancer]

I thought this was more related to what is tracking what, inside out is always from the device itself without having to rely on external input, or getting that input from something that the HMD itself is sending out. Without lighthouse boxes the Vive would stop functioning, a real inside out HMD doesn't need that? (maybe I always understood that term wrong?)

It has nothing to do with that, it depends on where the sensors are. The Lighthouses are 100% dumb devices that does not need to talk to the headset or the computer in any way. They only blast lasers into the playspace so the headset can use that to position itself. Its 100% real inside out tracking with markers.

These microsoft headsets are also inside out but markerless, which has so far not really been a feasible solution. So it will be pretty cool if they work well in peoples homes with all the variations of furnishing and lighting conditions. But it has a big issue, its fairly expensive so you cant just stick it to the controllers which is a big issue for gaming.

 

[Theonik]

Microsoft's tracking is markerless, but both Vive and Microsoft's methods are inside out tracking. Both rely on the sensors inside the headset to track position. The Rift and PSVR rely on an external camera for tracking.

It is also why Microsoft's solutions isn't really to be tracking the player in 3D space effectively. A solution like lighthouse is necessary for roomscale.

 

[Bert]

The headsets are getting sleeker and the price is coming down, but it's seemingly a slow process. Should be interesting to see when or if VR hits the mainstream.

VR will end up a subset of AR/MR. MS are taking the right route IMO. Get solid AR devices and productivity software out and they'll bring people in and VR will be there as an option for those that want it. Same as with PCs and standard gaming now really.

Still needs a couple of years in the oven, but I think long term it's more viable than pure VR like Oculus.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Do we know the specs of this thing and how it stacks up against the competition? I wonder what kind of games we can expect to be playing. Fallout 4 for example?

 

[Vash63]

Do we know the specs of this thing and how it stacks up against the competition? I wonder what kind of games we can expect to be playing. Fallout 4 for example?

That kind of game, maybe. Fallout has only been announced for SteamVR though and this headset only supports the Windows Store, not Steam, so maybe not Fallout specifically. Xbox Scorpio ports are likely.

 

[Trup1aya]

Vive is inside out tracking. The sensors are on the controllers and headset, the lighthouses are just markers. The problem with Microsoft's controllers is that while the headset is inside out tracking, the controllers are not.



Just a few other examples, throwing something underhanded, throwing something overhanded, the flashlight example already discussed, hip firing, and reaching for things on your body (inventory stuff). These are just a few things I've done in VR with the Vive, all of which are hard to imagine without proper tracking of the controllers outside of the headset's FOV.

Thanks. The more insight the better. I imagine most of those would be difficult, limited, or impossible without full tracking of the controller

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Controllers looks like the oculus touch controllers. Wonder if they perform as good. Headset looks tacky and Acer. Ewww.