Maybe they worked out their differences with Platinum.
Why do you assume the problems stemmed from them having a problem with platinum?
The game may have just been not shaping up.
It looked rough when we saw it
Maybe they worked out their differences with Platinum.
The simple fact is that when they started this generation they expected to have much better XB1 market penetration, especially in foreign markets. They started a lot of projects based on that assumption, and when it became apparent that they were not going to come anywhere close to their initial sales projections, many of those projects became financially infeasible to support.
This boils down to math from a publishing perspective. You anticipate there will be X million XB1 owners by the time the game releases, and based on that you extrapolate Y million likely sales. That tells how you how much you can comfortably budget for a project. A game like Scalebound, intended to broaden Microsoft's appeal in markets where they historically have performed poorly, was likely greenlit already with the baseline assumption being little to no profit on the investment.
Then, when the system fails to hit the requisite sales numbers, the math changes: you now have half (conservatively) of your X and Y, but the budget you need to allocate to finish the game hasn't changed. The loss on the project is going to be quite a bit larger, and investing in the Japanese market has become a fool's errand given how unlikely anything is to salvage sales in the region by that point.
This is the reality faced not just by Scalebound, but by many projects Microsoft greenlit in the run-up and early days of the XB1. Their funding was based on the assumption that system sales would be much, much better than they have been and the entire enterprise would be much, much more profitable than it currently is. It's perfectly understandable that they've had to cancel a number of projects in this situation, but you really shouldn't go and just start shitting on all of the developers because they were "obviously behind schedule" and there's "no other logical explanation".
Not only is there one, it's far more logical.
Now let's consider that Scalebound was in development for 4 years... if even having your audience halved has left the balance sheet in favour of cancelling it and throwing away all previous investments, versus what it costs to complete it... then how fucking far away was it from completion still? And how the hell would it have been viable in the first place, even with double the userbase?
It's not a very logical outlook at all imo. The lowered userbase is the sort of thing that'd more likely affect projects being greenlit from that point on, rather than causing games that have already had tens of millions dumped in them to be axed.
There are no darlings and Platinum have been hated on for many of their games, remember all the flak they got for Metal Gear Rising?
I was talking about games, not studios (and even then I'd say that was bullshit... one of the core arguments in this thread is how Platinum don't fuck up, unless you fuck with their projects).
If people here are "meh" about the new Destiny, or the new Call of Duty, it means pretty much nothing... there will be endless excitement for these game outside of our community. Scalebound is a completely different matter... if communities like ours don't care about it, who the hell does? We put Bayonetta 2 as our GOTY over stuff like Destiny, and probably have like 25% of the entire fanbase for a game like Wonderful 101.
As for Metal Gear Rising... no, I don't really remember all the flak they got.
You aren't really grasping publisher math. For a AAA title, development is a significant cost, but advertising and the actual production and distribution of the physical product is not insignificant. This is why there's a vast graveyard of games that were nearly or even completely finished but abandoned rather than being published.
The fact they chose to stop development is not any sort of indicator of how far development had progressed or how much longer it would have taken.
You also can't really use an absolute time scale in a scenario where the developer in question is developing multiple projects concurrently, as Platinum was. The game may have "been in development for four years" because Microsoft gave them a target launch date that far in the future due to the particulars of their own release schedule for exclusives. It's quite likely (almost certain, in fact) the development could have progressed more quickly if Microsoft had been interested in doing so and paid sufficiently to have the entire company constantly working on the project, but instead was paying only for a smaller dedicated development team within Platinum--this is known, as again, they were concurrently developing other titles--with the understanding that development would be much slower than their normal turnaround time, presumably to hold off release until after the major titles that would have (Microsoft foolishly hoped) gotten the Japanese install base where it needed to be (FFXV, RE7, etc.).
Businesses do not tend to be fond of the sunk cost fallacy. You should basically never assume that is the case, as anyone operating with budgets on that level has had it (thoroughly) beaten out of them before they get to see the corporate checkbook.
Well they're not the only ones, No Mans Sky also got massively hated on, (before and after release) was a new IP and still sold millions.
Synth said:Because No Man's Sky was generating excitement on a large scale. It was never in the same bucket as a standard Platinum release. Its launch week was more than nearly every Platinum game's LTD.
The simple fact is that when they started this generation they expected to have much better XB1 market penetration, especially in foreign markets. They started a lot of projects based on that assumption, and when it became apparent that they were not going to come anywhere close to their initial sales projections, many of those projects became financially infeasible to support.
This boils down to math from a publishing perspective. You anticipate there will be X million XB1 owners by the time the game releases, and based on that you extrapolate Y million likely sales. That tells how you how much you can comfortably budget for a project. A game like Scalebound, intended to broaden Microsoft's appeal in markets where they historically have performed poorly, was likely greenlit already with the baseline assumption being little to no profit on the investment.
Then, when the system fails to hit the requisite sales numbers, the math changes: you now have half (conservatively) of your X and Y, but the budget you need to allocate to finish the game hasn't changed. The loss on the project is going to be quite a bit larger, and investing in the Japanese market has become a fool's errand given how unlikely anything is to salvage sales in the region by that point.
This is the reality faced not just by Scalebound, but by many projects Microsoft greenlit in the run-up and early days of the XB1. Their funding was based on the assumption that system sales would be much, much better than they have been and the entire enterprise would be much, much more profitable than it currently is. It's perfectly understandable that they've had to cancel a number of projects in this situation, but you really shouldn't go and just start shitting on all of the developers because they were "obviously behind schedule" and there's "no other logical explanation".
Not only is there one, it's far more logical.
No, its not logical at all. The XB1 sales numbers are stronger than even X360 numbers point in time. You speak like the XB1 is a dead system. It's quite healthy. If what you said was true, the game development would have been cancelled way before 2017. That's YEARS of development, salaries, infrastructure, R&D. You don't spend money on years of development if you have no fate in a game. Your logic doesn't check out, but it fits the narrative around here though so it must be right.
As for the MGS link try this one -
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455114
Exactly, and it got hated on since the initial announcement with "but what do you do?" and "walking simulator".
I know people who were pretty upset about Phantom Dust and Fable Legends.
To be fair lots of games get hated on but sell well. Just check out Destiny 2 threads for the latest example.
It's not alone either, Halo, COD, Horizon ZD, Splatoon. The list goes on and on and on.
Ok cool. It got hated on when it looked shit (similar to Scalebound then). It stopped getting hated on when it looked good (as per the link I gave). Scalebound never turned that corner in most people's eye, even after multiple years of showings..
The point is that there was still a huge amount of excitement for the game both on GAF and outside of GAF. Scalebound was getting very little attention here, and less everywhere else. It's more popular for being cancelled, than it ever was when it was alive.
Windows Central says that IP was renewed only to avoid future copyright issues.
Apparently, there is no new Scalebound project active.
Windows Central says that IP was renewed only to avoid future copyright issues.
Apparently, there is no new Scalebound project active.
None of those games had anywhere near to extreme low amount of excitement that Scalebound got.To be fair lots of games get hated on but sell well. Just check out Destiny 2 threads for the latest example.
It's not alone either, Halo, COD, Horizon ZD, Splatoon. The list goes on and on and on.
He said "like we've not seen before", which in the console space is true. Unlike the OG Xbox mode on 360, Wii Mode on Wii U, PS1 or PS2 modes on PS3 etc, BC on XB1 is integrated seamlessly with the consoles standard updated feature set. Nintendo charged an upgrade fee to bring a Virtual Console purchase up to date, and Sony's currently just outright selling you the same product all over again on PS4.
The XB1 can't actually play the 360 games as they are stored on disc. They honor it with a digital copy anyway though... and that's not something I believe has been done in the realm of backwards compatibility before.
So a Level 5 RPG for the XBox would have all the difference in Japan, where PSU, Blue Dragoon, Lost Oddesy, Tales of Vesperia, Enchanted Arms, Eternal Sonata, FF 13, Star Ocean IV all failed to sell the XBox 360 to any big degree in Japan?
Yeah right. Japan as always disliked Western made consoles, well maybe bar the 3DO which did rather well there.
More PS generation talk ?. MS comes in with the money, you get the games made for you. Money will always talk
If it wasn't cancelled then people might have come around for it as they had for MGR, and the point of MGR is that Platinum are not darlings.
For NMS there was mixed reactions, GAF mostly hated it though, second point, don't take GAF consensus at face value.
I still don't think you or him understand you could literally use GC discs, controllers and memory cards with the Wii and you could use all Wii controllers, and discs with the Wii U. If you're going to restrict this to just digital content and give them a pass for discs not being compatible that incredibly disingenuous. Even though the Wii U doesn't offer Wii VC games updated features, it still natively plays them for no additional cost
You're really coming at this from a console war point of view. .
To be fair lots of games get hated on but sell well. Just check out Destiny 2 threads for the latest example.
It's not alone either, Halo, COD, Horizon ZD, Splatoon. The list goes on and on and on.
It will be reannounced at E3 9 years from now.
Anyway, this is a good place as any to post this:
https://xbox.uservoice.com/forums/2...17675614-bring-back-development-of-scalebound
If the game indeed had so much potential let's make ourselves listened. Who knows if we can force to bring it back?
Why do you assume the problems stemmed from them having a problem with platinum?
The game may have just been not shaping up.
It looked rough when we saw it
So here's a theory I'd like to throw out if it hasn't been discussed already.
Gameblog was the originator of the Yoshi + Rabbids game rumor for Switch, which by now is all but confirmed.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1293731
But they also reported, get ready for this...
That Nintendo might be looking to buy Platinum Games.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...eblog_on_platinum_gamesnintendos_love_affair/
I highly doubt this is the case considering it's a rumor. Still, how crazy would it be if the reason Scalebound was cancelled was because of a buyout, and now Microsoft is continuing without Platinum because they still own the IP?
Nope, now it's just console warriors defending MS' continued shit practices by trying to rewrite history. So you know, another day on GAF.We're still talking about this? Did some news happen or none of that? I do wonder if MS ever decides to go back to it. Seems like they haven't fully given up on it, otherwise why renew it?
So everyone who doesn't think that MS are bad and pure evil is console warriors?Nope, now it's just console warriors defending MS' continued shit practices by trying to rewrite history. So you know, another day on GAF.
It's history bro, can't argue with that.So everyone who doesn't think that MS are bad and pure evil is console warriors?
Nope, now it's just console warriors defending MS' continued shit practices by trying to rewrite history. So you know, another day on GAF.
And what makes you think those problems weren't Microsoft's fault?
NO, I just find it almost impossible to believe that one Level 5 game would have been the game to change the fortunes of XBox in Japan, more so a MMORPG. When online RPG weren't that big in Japan at the time or a Level 5 RPG ever sold in the numbers Square or Enix could boast
MS would have needed to make Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy exclusive to the Orginal Xbox or 360 to make any real sort of impact
This is what I was talking about earlier. This was the first game platinum fans really didn't get hype for after a couple showings. There's something wrong if the target audience doesn't want what you're cooking, especially coming from a man who arguably has no even average games on his resume, all classics.What makes you think they were.
There's a lot of things I can imagine being the direct effect of a publisher doing a poor job... but the core gameplay mechanics looking bad? Why would that be?
We are not going to get the complete story ever, but if you can't even look at what ms has done with their own IP like Fable and Phantom Dust , then want to lay ​the blame at the feet of one of the best mercenary devs around, you need to bring more then feelings. Not to mention we have several insiders saying MS fucked with time lines just like Zenimax.That's hilarious coming from this complete shitpost.
You have absolutely no evidence on what happened in the Scalebound situation to back your words up, but I guess we can take atr0cious's posts as gospel cause, you know, reasons.
And the fact your willing to condemn people defending MS without the facts and yet have nothing to say about the people using the hyperbole in the other direction is pretty telling, by the way.
This is what I was talking about earlier. This was the first game platinum fans really didn't get hype for after a couple showings. There's something wrong if the target audience doesn't want what you're cooking, especially coming from a man who arguably has no even average games on his resume, all classics.
We are not going to get the complete story ever, but if you can't even look at what ms has done with their own IP like Fable and Phantom Dust , then want to lay ​the blame at the feet of one of the best mercenary devs around, you need to bring more then feelings. Not to mention we have several insiders saying MS fucked with time lines just like Zenimax.
This is what I was talking about earlier. This was the first game platinum fans really didn't get hype for after a couple showings. There's something wrong if the target audience doesn't want what you're cooking, especially coming from a man who arguably has no even average games on his resume, all classics.
We are not going to get the complete story ever, but if you can't even look at what ms has done with their own IP like Fable and Phantom Dust , then want to lay ​the blame at the feet of one of the best mercenary devs around, you need to bring more then feelings. Not to mention we have several insiders saying MS fucked with time lines just like Zenimax.
Your absolutely right we can never know the whole story, but as someone who followed the game really closely, allow me to offer an alternative theory:
Name me one project Platinum did previously to Scalebound that would be considered anywhere near the same level budget wise?
And your answer is gonna be silence, because they never have. Scalebound would have been the biggest production Platinum would have ever made, and for a developer that previously specialized in niche AA projects, going over to AAA development makes more sense to me as being the root of the issue rather than MS investing millions into a project just to cancel it after 3 years because of.....Milestone abuse?
The game looked bad every time it was shown, got the reaction of a wet noodle at its main E3 showing, and suffered from a large identity crisis from the moment it was shown off to the moment it was canceled.
But the time Kamiya started getting a hang on what the project could be (go back and read about the behind the scenes presentation at Gamescom 2016), it was too late and MS pulled out.
Was there dirt on MS's hands as well?
Almost certainly. You don't invest the money AAA cost and let the dev run wild, and that relationship was probably the most relevant factor. Odds are after each one of those gameplay showings and the reactions they got, Kamiya's control was lessened.
And when that happens to a project you've been dreaming of making since you were a child?
Enough to make anyone need time off.
But I'm not gonna sit here and assume that situation like it was all MS's fault. No, the game looked bad from day 1, and it wasn't MS developing what was getting that reaction, it was P*. And throwing me a Wikipedia page full of games P* made previously with no issue (that you know of) doesn't really mean anything here, when again, none of their projects was ever on the "scale" of "Scalebound".
It looked bad from a technical standpoint. I didn't mind the actual gameplay but it wouldn't be wrong to say it looked roughNow that I disagree. The game was awesome from the first gameplay shown.
I mean, just look at that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGwsufc_Vw
Name me one single open world game that makes this gameplay look bad.
Now that I disagree. The game was awesome from the first gameplay shown.
I mean, just look at that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGwsufc_Vw
Name me one single open world game that makes this gameplay look bad.
Wonderful 101 was their former biggest project, and it has 5 player coop. I'm not saying they didn't start doing stuff they're not comfortable with, which is where it's implied MS took them down this road. Not even TMNT looks this far removed from a platinum game. MS clearly wanted a focus on large connectivity and multiplayer, which besides Bayo 2 coop and Anarchy Reigns 4 way, really isn't something they do. But I have a hard time believing that platinum of all devs was the main reason this faltered, especially since they're the Kyra Sedgwick of game devs.Your absolutely right we can never know the whole story, but as someone who followed the game really closely, allow me to offer an alternative theory:
Name me one project Platinum did previously to Scalebound that would be considered anywhere near the same level budget-wise?
And your answer is gonna be silence, because they never have. Scalebound would have been the biggest production Platinum would have ever made, and for a developer that previously specialized in niche AA projects, going over to AAA development makes more sense to me as being the root of the issue rather than MS investing millions into a project just to cancel it after 3 years because of.....Milestone abuse? The game looked bad every time it was shown, got the reaction of a wet noodle at its main E3 showing, and suffered from a large identity crisis from the moment it was shown off to the moment it was canceled.
And by the time Kamiya started getting a hang on what the project could be (go back and read about the behind the scenes presentation at Gamescom 2016), it was too late and MS pulled out.
Was there dirt on MS's hands as well?
Almost certainly. You don't invest the money AAA cost and let the dev run wild, and that relationship was probably the most relevant factor. Odds are after each one of those gameplay showings and the reactions they got, Kamiya's control was lessened.
And when that happens to a project you've been dreaming of making since you were a child?
Enough to make anyone need time off.
But I'm not gonna sit here and assume that was all MS's fault when it doesn't add up. No, the game looked bad from day 1, and it wasn't MS developing what was getting that reaction, it was P*. And throwing me a Wikipedia page full of games P* made previously with no issue (that you know of) doesn't really mean anything here, when again, none of their projects was ever on the "scale" of "Scalebound".
Some people have said this though? Why the Sony Too? I'm talking about a known predator. Don't try to change the subject. Make a thread about Sony fucking a studio and I'll be there. Guess we're gonna act like no one laments closed dev studios now because MS is bad at their job of cultivating developer support.We don't know the full story about Phantom Dust either, we know one side of the story and one highly biased at that because they lost the company when they lost the contract.
But we do know the story about Fable Legends, it was a complete money sink, that they delayed over and over, and was no where near close to completion (it was going to get delayed again before being cancelled, heck, the beta was so far away that many areas didn't even had any textures on) and worst of all it had terrible player retention rates during the beta.
So no, there's nothing to back this falacy that Ms fucks dev over just cause. Or should we look at spot cases like SFV, and No Man Sky to say Sony forced unfinished games to the market, or how they were abusing the Rime devs because they dropped the game?
Dragons Dogma: Dark Arisen
Ironically directed by the guy in charge of the DMC series, Hideaki Itsuno , the same series the got its start in Kamiya's hands.
And as a fan of that game, I personally thought Scalebound looked amazing, but for the sake for the current discussion ill be taking the perspective of the majority, which did not agree.
Wonderful 101 was their former biggest project, and it has 5 player coop. I'm not saying they didn't start doing stuff they're not comfortable with, which is where it's implied MS took them down this road. Not even TMNT looks this far removed from a platinum game. MS clearly wanted a focus on large connectivity and multiplayer, which besides Bayo 2 coop and Anarchy Reigns 4 way, really isn't something they do. But I have a hard time believing that platinum of all devs was the main reason this faltered, especially since they're the Kyra Sedgwick of game devs.
Some people have said this though? Why the Sony Too? I'm talking about a known predator. Don't try to change the subject. Make a thread about Sony fucking a studio and I'll be there. Guess we're gonna act like no one laments closed dev studios now because MS is bad at their job of cultivating developer support.
That's the key part though, I'm not saying it was all platinum, I'm saying I don't think either party was 100% at fault. People are happy to jump to one extreme or the other, when I imagine neither party is happy about the situation and each had their own hand in its issues and I believe the games public reaction was a relevant factor in its cancellation.
Personally I take a lot of issue with how MS marketed the game, which was very poorly. I know the focus was heavily on Thuban (the dragon) and Drew's relationship, but they really should have delved more into the combat (what P* is known for) blended with actually showing off the world of the game.