guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Mr. Jackpots
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Twin Peaks Season 3 OT |25 Years Later...It Is Happening Again
- Thread starter Sumio Mondo
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Don Draper's Hat
Member
The first amusing "hello".
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
Finally watched FWWM last night. Not sure why the film seemingly got so much hate, maybe it was due to what people expected from a Twin Peaks film at the time, but I thought it was pretty good seeing everything the characters talked about in the show about Laura being shown for the first time. And the last scene was dark as hell. Not a film for everyone, seemed very much for the fans of Twin Peaks who wanted more.
What was the deal with Leland, was he possessed all this time (and at what point did he get possessed ?), was there a weird mix of him actually wanting to do these things and bob pushing him to do them ?
What was the deal with Leland, was he possessed all this time (and at what point did he get possessed ?), was there a weird mix of him actually wanting to do these things and bob pushing him to do them ?
Depends on which answer you go with:
The TV explanation is that Bob possessed him completely to commit those crimes, with Leland able to "see" what was going on.
FWWM explanation is that Leland had the urges already, but it was Bob's possession that pushed him over the edge into committing the act.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Just watched Episode 3. Holy hell, that was disturbing.
Question: is Episode 5 next week or is there a week gap? I basically don't want to go a week without peaks so I'm thinking of leaving Ep 4....
Question: is Episode 5 next week or is there a week gap? I basically don't want to go a week without peaks so I'm thinking of leaving Ep 4....
Episode 5 airs on Sunday, the 4th.
Broseybrose
Member
Just watched 3 and 4.
When I saw Bobby in police uniform I couldnt help but be reminded of how he shot/killed that guy in FWWM, and whether or not that will come back to haunt him.
Also Chromatics song at end of part 2 is so dreamy. Id say just as dreamy as the original Twin Peaks soundtrack, but with a current modern flavor. Which is wonderful because I mostly hate modern music.
When I saw Bobby in police uniform I couldnt help but be reminded of how he shot/killed that guy in FWWM, and whether or not that will come back to haunt him.
Also Chromatics song at end of part 2 is so dreamy. Id say just as dreamy as the original Twin Peaks soundtrack, but with a current modern flavor. Which is wonderful because I mostly hate modern music.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
VistraNorrez
Member
I don't think the TV show ever absolved Leland of his crimes. Just because Leland was all weepy during his death and regretful doesn't mean he didn't have the urge to do it. It's not like killers and rapists can't express regret. Leland's love for Laura was always genuine, too. I don't think you can separate the show from FWWM anyway. Even though Lynch didn't direct the episode were Leland confesses and dies, he certainly had a big hand in it.
Even in the show they speculate about Leland and Bob's relationship and how much Leland is responsible and how much Bob is. They don't come to any conclusion. Plus I don't think you can ignore the doubling theme that's here and in most of Lynch's work. A big part of that theme is denial. The double always allows a certain amount of absolution.
I don't think it's cut and dry at all that the show only has Bob being responsible.
Discotheque
Banned
Gordon Cole is as great as ever in here. Lynch upped his acting game man, I really appreciated his unease when he was talking to Mr. C
his "What the Hell" and usual miscommunication gags were hilarious, and also "Fix your hearts or die" is a new GOAT slogan. put it on a tshirt.
his "What the Hell" and usual miscommunication gags were hilarious, and also "Fix your hearts or die" is a new GOAT slogan. put it on a tshirt.
Corleth the Fey
Member
Someone else on here must have offered the thought that Bobby is still a crook? So far everyone else in Twin Peaks seems the same - why would Bobby change his spots?
It seemed (too?) obvious that he could be running the drugs from Canada which caused the kid to OD - he knows where the cameras are placed to catch the drug runners.
Oh, as someone who watched the original airing of Twin Peaks in the UK and fell in love with it - this new season is everything I could have hoped for. It's incredible.
HashtagLapsed
Member
I think so too. Albert kind of says maybe Bob represents the evil that humans are capable of. I suppose theoretically, Bob could be a kind of thought form, I guess.
On the other hand, if the Black Lodge is the shadow-self of the White Lodge, maybe Bob is in a sense the shadow-self of Leland. In Jungian psychology, after the the dissolution of the persona and the realization of the ego, the shadow is the next aspect of the unconscious someone encounters. Without care, the shadow can take over. According to Jung, even when someone goes so far to encounter the anima/animus, that can become imbalanced and take over as well.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Ok, I've stumbled across a bit of a plot hole re: OG series.
We've established BOB wants to possess Laura, not kill her - but the ring changes his plans. So far so good.
However... why didn't he attempt to possess Maddy instead of murdering her?
We've established BOB wants to possess Laura, not kill her - but the ring changes his plans. So far so good.
However... why didn't he attempt to possess Maddy instead of murdering her?
Laura was 'worked on' for years and was going down a dark path of her own, which probably made her more suitable as a host.
Maddie was pretty much sweet & innocent, and was about to leave the next day so there'd be no more chance to influence her anyway.
VistraNorrez
Member
In Cooper's dream he says he will kill again. I think Bob likes to kill as much as he likes to possess people. Or maybe he just likes to possess who ever will let him create the most havoc. I don't think Maddy was as inclined to havoc as Leland or Laura.
Because he didn't want to. Her and Maddy are different people, you might as well ask why he didn't attempt to possess any other person in Twin Peaks.
Bob seemed to target Laura for a long time.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
This is just my personal theory and I don't quite know how it works, but I think Leland and Laura had 'darker' sides to them, I think possession only becomes available once the host has surpassed a certain threshold of 'personal darkness' instead of just being able to possess anyone at anytime. Laura I think was a prime candidate for him because while she had a strong dark side, she also had a lot of good and many around her trusted and liked her, which could've been an ample opportunity to spread pain and suffering if he possessed her (killing as an alternative). She was so beloved by so many there's a lot of pain he could've caused by possessing her, and when that didn't work out, just killing her.
I think Maddy didn't have a dark enough spill, and I would say he determined killing her would cause more pain and misery than possessing her. Remember, BOB isn't specifically out for Hosts, he's out for opportunities to spread his pain and suffering and get more and more of that sweet, sweet Creamed Corn.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Yeah I get that. I just thought as his initial plan fell through, in Maddy's case he'd just be one bottle of peroxide away from an identical-looking Laura doppelgänger.
I'm still upset Germany got episode 5 leaked. I'm in pain waiting here! Just another week...
It would be fine if it was just Leland expressing regret in that scene, but that's not really what happens there. He spouts exposition explaining exactly how his relationship with Bob works, he blames everything on Bob and "them," saying that he didn't know what he was doing and didn't remember it afterwards. I guess you could make an argument that he's just being delusional, but that's also not how the scene plays out. Cooper acts like he's saying farewell to a dear friend and the script even calls for the onlookers to be deeply moved by this ("Tears are streaming down Truman's face as he listens. Albert is anguished. Cooper presses on.")
They did include that epilogue where Truman expresses doubt about what happened, but even that's undermined by Cooper's impossibly stupid and tone deaf "Is it easier to believe a man would rape and murder his own daughter? Is that any more comforting?"
Then the next episode has everyone who's somebody in Twin Peaks gathering at the wake for a rapist who just murdered another person and everyone's acting oblivious to what happened and getting involved in sitcom hijinks. Cooper again chimes in with "Leland didn't commit these crimes."
Another episode features a newspaper prop with the headline "LELAND PALMER LAID TO REST - Town mourns." The only way that article could be published is if someone's running a disinformation campaign.... or everyone believed that a demon did it (which is what the protagonist keeps telling us).
You'd have to tune out a whole lot of dialogue and scenes which ignore the horror of what just took place, to fit Fire Walk With Me's treatment of the subject into the show's attempts at whitewashing its core storyline.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I'm also going to come out and say it, I've always been confused about why they call the characters BOB and Mike. When I first saw the show I was getting confused because you're introduced to Bobby and Mike earlier in the show. It's very obvious that Mike and Bobby have nothing to do with Mike and Bob, but it's just strange to me the show has two pair of characters that go by essentially the same name.
I never quite understood the reason for that, maybe to mess with people to think they were talking about Mike and Bobby instead of supernatural entities? I'm not sure.
I never quite understood the reason for that, maybe to mess with people to think they were talking about Mike and Bobby instead of supernatural entities? I'm not sure.
I never once made that connection :O
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
One more random thing, Rancho Rosa.
So the Twin Peaks Facebook posted there was something different about the opening each time, can you spot it? So I looked, and the answer is there's nothing different in each opening itself (there's a change between 1 to 2 with Laura's face and the shot, but it's then the same for 2, 3, & 4), but actually with the production logo:
It changes at the start of each episode.
The thing is, Rancho Rosa isn't actually a real company. And Lynch/Frost Productions are still credited at the end of each episode. Rancho Rosa was apparently the nickname for Twin Peaks Season 3 in development, the script and project nickname was Rancho Rosa.
However, Rancho Rosa actually appears in Part 3 of the show:
Rancho Rosa directly translated stands for "Pink Ranch", and it seems to be this lot of land in the new season. But then the production name is also called Rancho Rosa, so since they called themselves that doesn't that mean this location might be important since it's been the nickname for the new series? I don't know why they've gone through the effort to change the Rancho Rosa opening bit each episode, I don't know why the new season's production title was named it, I don't know why it's an actual location in the show, and I feel there's something more important because all of this is VERY easy to miss.
So the Twin Peaks Facebook posted there was something different about the opening each time, can you spot it? So I looked, and the answer is there's nothing different in each opening itself (there's a change between 1 to 2 with Laura's face and the shot, but it's then the same for 2, 3, & 4), but actually with the production logo:
It changes at the start of each episode.
The thing is, Rancho Rosa isn't actually a real company. And Lynch/Frost Productions are still credited at the end of each episode. Rancho Rosa was apparently the nickname for Twin Peaks Season 3 in development, the script and project nickname was Rancho Rosa.
However, Rancho Rosa actually appears in Part 3 of the show:
Rancho Rosa directly translated stands for "Pink Ranch", and it seems to be this lot of land in the new season. But then the production name is also called Rancho Rosa, so since they called themselves that doesn't that mean this location might be important since it's been the nickname for the new series? I don't know why they've gone through the effort to change the Rancho Rosa opening bit each episode, I don't know why the new season's production title was named it, I don't know why it's an actual location in the show, and I feel there's something more important because all of this is VERY easy to miss.
Unless you always manage to fall asleep during Cooper's dream recap, you probably just forgot about that.
plagiarize
Banned
This is good.
We see no darkness in Maddy.
I think a lot about how Margaret, and Carl Rod, and Major Briggs, were pure of heart, but Coop was not. Perhaps because Coop was involved in infidelity. We know him to be a good person of high moral character... but we know he wasn't pure of heart, if we presume Hawk's speech about the lodge to be accurate.
And they *did* include that in the 3 minute recap showtime put out to get people up to speed for the new series. We have to presume Margaret, Carl and Garland all faced their shadow selves right?
Now I think Bob inhabiting someone is totally different to the doppelganger thing, and doesn't require someone to end up in the lodge. I also think it takes a while for him to open people up to him. Leland presumably saw that man more than one summer... and presumably that man did more than flick matches at him.
Leland still seems to have broken more easily than Laura (who stood up to a maelstrom of shit and was still able to resist him, even if it meant choosing death).
Just some musings.
And hey, no spoiler tags anymore! Bobby Briggs is working for the sheriff's office. Coop swapped places with Dougie who popped into a rotten head with a gold marble inside. Cole and Rosenfield are onto Mr C.
And Wally is the best new character... and if you don't see that, you're totally wrong. Again, he's supposed to be doing a bad job of pretending to be Brando (the lisp is a key giveaway), his parents remain impossibly proud of him despite all that nonsense, and Sheriff Truman is like... I'm going to put up with this shit because his parents work for me... but jesus.
Could just be a reference to this song from FWWM. Consider that the Pink Room perfectly compliments a sleazy, foreboding night club, and the fact that Dougie uses the subdivision's model homes to cheat on his wife.
VistraNorrez
Member
None of this is definitive. It's all opinions of characters within the universe. No reason to take it as the answer on what Leland actually did. Not even Leland's own words.
Many serial killers and murderous psychopaths act as if they were compelled to commit their crimes by an outside force. Son of Sam said a demon dog told him to kill people (although later recanted).
So it's not a matter of Leland being in denial. It's that there are 2 mindsets for Leland. He did actually care for Laura and he also violently, sexually assaulted he for years until he killed her. These things are not mutually exclusive. Especially not when it comes to David Lynch stories.
FWWM seemed to portray it ambiguously or metaphorically, along these lines, but I do have to agree that a lot of the writing in episode 16 and 17 seems designed to weaken this aspect of Bob. It's one of the reasons that I feel FWWM is really necessary.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
There's a lot of Double R's in Twin Peaks, the Diner, Red Room, or hell since I was talking about it earlier, Ronnie Rocket.
It certainly could and the thought passed, but I do find it curious they have the name as the production studio and whole project codename, and as it's the name of an actual location in the new season I wonder where that might be going and why the official Twin Peaks Facebook teased something that changes in every opening, and the thing that changes each episode is the logo for the company that doesn't exist.
I feel we'll go back there eventually, both because I doubt we saw the assassins plant an explosive to Dougie's vehicle for now reason, but we also saw that scene of a boy and a girl in the house across who saw it. In fact, come to think of it I would bet that's where Dougie works? Since Dougie was in a house for sale and had the keys, maybe he works here?
Waylon Drums
Member
Quite possibly one of the most pretentious ways of looking at it I've ever seen. It's not for everyone, and that's okay!
Yrev, very excited to finally watch Part 5 next week. Knowing some have already seen it thanks to the Sky leak makes me anxious.
31GhostsIV
Banned
One more random thing, Rancho Rosa.
So the Twin Peaks Facebook posted there was something different about the opening each time, can you spot it? So I looked, and the answer is there's nothing different in each opening itself (there's a change between 1 to 2 with Laura's face and the shot, but it's then the same for 2, 3, & 4), but actually with the production logo:
It changes at the start of each episode.
The thing is, Rancho Rosa isn't actually a real company. And Lynch/Frost Productions are still credited at the end of each episode. Rancho Rosa was apparently the nickname for Twin Peaks Season 3 in development, the script and project nickname was Rancho Rosa.
However, Rancho Rosa actually appears in Part 3 of the show:
Rancho Rosa directly translated stands for "Pink Ranch", and it seems to be this lot of land in the new season. But then the production name is also called Rancho Rosa, so since they called themselves that doesn't that mean this location might be important since it's been the nickname for the new series? I don't know why they've gone through the effort to change the Rancho Rosa opening bit each episode, I don't know why the new season's production title was named it, I don't know why it's an actual location in the show, and I feel there's something more important because all of this is VERY easy to miss.
At first glance it reminds me of the Jacoby/3D glasses parts of SHOTP. If there's anything more to it than palette swaps, I suspect we're going to need to see a few more idents/episodes for context before we make any kind of sense of it.
First two bulbs are off, third is lit and the fourth is smoky implying it's blown. Other than that I have nothing! EDIT - the bulb always changes as part of the animation so I really have nothing...
31GhostsIV
Banned
Sky Germany on their catch up service.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
Part 5 was posted on Sky Go Germany, but has since taken down. Some saw it, but to my knowledge there's no big leaks for it yet outside of this picture: https://i.gyazo.com/33b62ca15980bac2d0af02a16a04c7bf.png
If it does leak online I'll probably give in and watch it and then watch it again live on Showtime next Sunday to support (and this is a series I enjoy rewatching), but even if it did then you'd have to wait two weeks for art 6. XD;
Does killing someone makes that person a demon per definition? Why can't they still Mourn even if he and Bobby killed Laura?
I LOVED both these episodes. Despite some slightly over long scenes in Part 3 I feel the balance of styles and storylines was made much better than 1 and 2 (which I still enjoyed).
The Dougie and resulting Coop stuff was extremely interesting and made for some great build up. The Twin Peaks storyline started to broaden the scope with more characters (Bobby + Laura's theme was great!) The disparate plotlines started to come together with Gordon and Albert (both as great as ever).
And of course fucking Wally Brando... Holy shit.
The Dougie and resulting Coop stuff was extremely interesting and made for some great build up. The Twin Peaks storyline started to broaden the scope with more characters (Bobby + Laura's theme was great!) The disparate plotlines started to come together with Gordon and Albert (both as great as ever).
And of course fucking Wally Brando... Holy shit.
Airola
Member
At least there are the "What have I done!" and "Oh God have mercy on me!" lines where it seems Leland still acknowledges he is quilty for what he has done.
plagiarize
Banned
I am sort of stressing a little bit about the Blu-Ray release.
If it doesn't have both versions of Part 1 and 2 and Part 3 and 4 I am going to be upset.
I presume we'll have the same thing with 17 and 18 too. I'm definitely enjoying them more as two hour long pieces. It's really interesting to me that there are these slightly different edits already.
I just hope to heck the physical release offers BOTH versions.
If it doesn't have both versions of Part 1 and 2 and Part 3 and 4 I am going to be upset.
I presume we'll have the same thing with 17 and 18 too. I'm definitely enjoying them more as two hour long pieces. It's really interesting to me that there are these slightly different edits already.
I just hope to heck the physical release offers BOTH versions.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
Speaking of Leland, anyone notice how quiet Ray Wise is being right now about the new season? He's busy and goes in a lot of things, but he often gives lot of interviews and has always been fond of Twin Peaks, and they even managed to get him in the new season. He had the cameo in Part 2, but I'm almost feeling his role will be bigger than it appears to be right now. Both since Ray Wise has been so quiet and almost like trying not to draw attention to the fact he was in the new season (despite being vocal with the community often), and that they brought him back at all, and I doubt it was just for that one small cameo in Part 2.
Like many other actors have been around and about speaking about the new season, and Ray has been vocal in the past, but he's been super quiet about the new season and not even appearing at public events and such. I almost feel like they want you to forget he's in the new season and he's going to end up doing more than he appears to be doing right now.
Like many other actors have been around and about speaking about the new season, and Ray has been vocal in the past, but he's been super quiet about the new season and not even appearing at public events and such. I almost feel like they want you to forget he's in the new season and he's going to end up doing more than he appears to be doing right now.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Any release dates yet? In time for christmas hopefully.
Violence Jack
Member
This is going to get so much usage during E3.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Watching it again because I'm obviously obsessed.
Random thought - Ruth Davenport's body is missing, replaced with (speculatively) Garlands or misc male.
'Mother' in the glass box has a female body and an alien/monster (or speculatively the evil Arm's) head. Could it be Ruth's body?
Apologies if this has been brought up.
Random thought - Ruth Davenport's body is missing, replaced with (speculatively) Garlands or misc male.
'Mother' in the glass box has a female body and an alien/monster (or speculatively the evil Arm's) head. Could it be Ruth's body?
Apologies if this has been brought up.
I meant Bob. Being a supernatural killer makes him sort of a demon, by definition.
Some people would probably still mourn him, but I can't imagine that the general population of Twin Peaks even heard of some random (and seemingly scummy) attorney before he became a serial killer (which is the big news and tragedy, not his death).
I haven't been following post-premiere interviews, but he did at least appear at this event:
Unrelated: D'aww, they're so cute.
I don't know if this is a trope, but one of my favorite games does this and I was "are you telling me my MC was doing WHAT". The funny thing is, like a lot mid-near 90's japanese videogames, is very inspired in Twin Peaks. Even there is a "weird room".
Edit: Grace Zabriskie looks amazing! Even more than in Inland Empire. Good for her.
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