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[Gallbaro]

Because healthcare tends to be a completely different beast versus WIC or unemployment.

Yeah that's true on the economy front. I hope it can get through the hurdles and be implemented effectively.

Universal Health Care does not mean single payer... Off the top of my head there could be a sliding copay scale till you have lived there for a decade, for example.

I don't make much money as it is but I would gladly have more of my paycheck taken if it meant everyone in the state got health care. Who gives a flying fuck about money when we are talking about people's health?

A lot of your paycheck already is. Employer expense of your healthcare and Medicaid/Medicare taxes.

 

[titiklabingapat]

The only thing causing high real estate prices in California are home owners and rent controlled tenets banding together to stop new construction.

https://www.vox.com/2016/8/8/12390048/san-francisco-housing-costs-tokyo

My point still stands. Many of these homeowners are usually the rich and once they buy property, they have a lopsided influence on what gets or what doesn't get built. Thier home values go up making them even richer further incentivizing NIMBYism.

 

[Ponn]

Should be presented as a comparison of how much state residents currently pay for (quality) insurance vs. what they would be paying for universal coverage. Taxes would increase, yes, but if everyone is paying and no longer paying towards for-profit private companies, how much difference would there be while getting a huge increase in accessibility.

Exactly and I don't get why people that push UHC never clarify that. People are dumb and get lost on the "My taxes are going up!" part

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

Just pass the California Senate. Call your assemblyman people.

Oh shit, its happening

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Can universal healthcare work on a state level? My fear is that this passes and is implemented only to fail miserably because you don't have the full weight of the country to absorb costs.

But isn't California's economy like the 5th largest in the world? It kinda does have the full weight of a country.

 

[commedieu]

Can universal healthcare work on a state level? My fear is that this passes and is implemented only to fail miserably because you don't have the full weight of the country to absorb costs.

We are the 4/5th largest economy in the world depending on the sterling in the uk. We can afford it. I'll gladly contribute more from taxes to get and give healthcare to people in need. It's clearly not just a toggle that you switch, concerns are being vetted.

 

[Kevtones]

It would be nice if our state govt gave two shits about the roads though. They're HORRIBLE.

 

[titiklabingapat]

It would be nice if our state govt gave two shits about the roads though. They're HORRIBLE.

They just increased the gas tax to pay for that too.

 

[Kevtones]

They just increased the gas tax to pay for that too.

Yeah and a bunch of it has already been diverted 😑

 

[boredofcanada]

I'm guessing this would be for residents only, if passed. I ask because I live in Arizona and I'd drive over there for a doctors visit lol.

 

[Future]

Good luck in a state with cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles with crazy cost of living. This would be the ultimate test in how liberal the state is because taxes WILL go up and the most populous cities will be pissed. You have to really be about the greater good to want this.

 

[Instro]

Wouldn't the lack of premiums largely make up for the tax increase?

 

[Gallbaro]

Wouldn't the lack of premiums largely make up for the tax increase?

Most people do not notice their premiums. The real hope is that they start paying pharma and medical labor less with the unified purchasing power.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Good luck in a state with cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles with crazy cost of living. This would be the ultimate test in how liberal the state is because taxes WILL go up and the most populous cities will be pissed. You have to really be about the greater good to want this.

A tax increase on the whole system will help alleviate the higher cost of living in those cities because you won't have to worry about health insurance anymore and the risk of bankruptcy from health related reasons is eliminated. It will help if they try to sell it a higher taxes on the rich. The state certainly can afford to do it. Yeah some rich asshole will leave but most will stay because of the inherent value of living in California.

You're right though, this will be a true test on how liberal California really is.

 

[Diablos]

Aw fuck, Trump still would need to sign off on Medicare/Medicaid rules.

Probably DOA because of that, but Cali leads the way as usual.

I think this is more of a proof of concept right now because they still would need to amend the bill to find the revenue to pay for this thing. Easier said than done.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

As someone who makes plenty of good money, I fully support this. Tax my money away to help my fellow Californians.

 

[Kevtones]

Good luck in a state with cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles with crazy cost of living. This would be the ultimate test in how liberal the state is because taxes WILL go up and the most populous cities will be pissed. You have to really be about the greater good to want this.

This. We just had a huge gas tax on top of the most expensive prices in the nation.

 

[Brinbe]

Real talk. Cali would be better off seceding at this point.

 

[Kevtones]

With 2 million undocumented people I don't see citizens being fully on board to pay their tax burden. As blue as the state is I don't see that flying.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Good luck in a state with cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles with crazy cost of living. This would be the ultimate test in how liberal the state is because taxes WILL go up and the most populous cities will be pissed. You have to really be about the greater good to want this.

As others have pointed out, wouldn't this largely just convert current health insurance premiums?

Usually in total those premiums are anywhere from $500-$1,000+ per month as part of an employee's compensation. With the employee paying anywhere from $0 to $200+ or so of that and the employer paying the rest.

 

[Kevinroc]

With 2 million undocumented people I don't see citizens being fully on board to pay their tax burden. As blue as the state is I don't see that flying.

With Trump trashing the ACA and Republicans all trying to pass their ACHA bill, I think it could.

Never underestimate a state, when fully in control of the opposition party to the federal government's party, to raise their middle fingers.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

With 2 million undocumented people I don't see citizens being fully on board to pay their tax burden. As blue as the state is I don't see that flying.

Huh? Undocumented workers still pay income taxes. Only way to avoid it is if they're being paid cash under the table. I doubt undocumented workers are as big of a burden as you assume.

 

[MattKeil]

Real talk. Cali would be better off seceding at this point.

No it wouldn't. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[Kevtones]

Huh? Undocumented workers still pay income taxes. Only way to avoid it is if they're being paid cash under the table. I double undocumented workers are as big of a burden as you assume.

Some do, some don't. What I'm saying is that's the perception here. This isn't an assumption it's the talking point of the right and (false or not) not an insignificant one given the extent taxation this Californians feel.

There's some serious discontent on both sides from the recent gas tax. From the way it was slipped through to the way it's ALREADY being used (hint not on the roads as promised).

California will stay Blue but our leaders have not been doing great work imo.

 

[Gallbaro]

Huh? Undocumented workers still pay income taxes. Only way to avoid it is if they're being paid cash under the table. I doubt undocumented workers are as big of a burden as you assume.

It is an issue at the moment.

http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/care-costs-undocumented-immigrants-absorbed-hospitals

The unreimbursed cost of providing care for all uninsured or underinsured patiets totaled a record-high $41.1 billion in 2011, according to the American Hospital Association.

In California alone, where approximately 2.5 million residents are undocumented immigrants, the annual cost of unpaid hospital care is between $1 billion and $1.5 billion estimates the Hospital Association of Southern California.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Some do, some don't. What I'm saying is that's the perception here. This isn't an assumption it's the talking point of the right and (false or not) not an insignificant one given the extent taxation this Californians feel.

There's some serious discontent on both sides from the recent gas tax. From the way it was slipped through to the way it's ALREADY being used (hint not on the roads as promised).

California will stay Blue but our leaders have not been doing great work imo.

No doubt it'll be a talking point. Undocumented are a scapegoat of many conservatives. Source of all problems. That's unfortunate about the gas tax, though.

It is an issue at the moment.

http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/care-costs-undocumented-immigrants-absorbed-hospitals

So that looks like 1.5 billion out of a total uninsured pool of 41 billion? That seems like a relatively low contributer to be honest. If my math is right, that's about 6% of the population assuming the 39 million in California include the 2.5 million undocumented. Versus making up 3.7% of uninsured costs.

 

[Gallbaro]

No doubt it'll be a talking point. Undocumented are a scapegoat of many conservatives. Source of all problems. That's unfortunate about the gas tax, though.

So that looks like 1.5 billion out of a total uninsured pool of 41 billion? That seems like a relatively low contributer to be honest. If my math is right, that's about 6% of the population assuming the 39 million in California include the 2.5 million undocumented. Versus making up 3.6% of uninsured costs.

Its not a well written article but $41 billion is national.

$1.5 billion is CA alone. You could rough it out by population I suppose. About 1 out of 10 Americans live in CA, so 1.5 billion out of 4.1 billion in hospital patient bad debt is to illegal immigrants.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Its not a well written article but $41 billion is national.

$1.5 billion is CA alone. You could rough it out by population I suppose. About 1 out of 10 Americans live in CA, so 1.5 billion out of 4.1 billion in hospital patient bad debt is to illegal immigrants.

Ah, I see. Hard to compare if we don't have Cali uninsured numbers. But an article posted inline there does talk about Medicare specifically and immigrants paying into the service much more than they get out of it nationally.

I'm sure undocumented workers incur costs, but I'd be very curious in knowing how much they collectively pay in state income taxes. Hopefully there are some numbers available in relation to this legislation.

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

im so glad my dad moved his fam to boston to California.

 

[Instro]

Some do, some don't. What I'm saying is that's the perception here. This isn't an assumption it's the talking point of the right and (false or not) not an insignificant one given the extent taxation this Californians feel.

There's some serious discontent on both sides from the recent gas tax. From the way it was slipped through to the way it's ALREADY being used (hint not on the roads as promised).

California will stay Blue but our leaders have not been doing great work imo.

Source? Last I saw on this issue was republican nonsense.

 

[Gallbaro]

I guess it is not such an issue for CA. But curious about of NY actually does ours (we won't) since it would be a payroll tax, what happens to NJ and CT residents who use to get insurance through their NYC employer...

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

It is an issue at the moment.

http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/care-costs-undocumented-immigrants-absorbed-hospitals

When you divide that 1.5 billion figure by the population of California aged 18+ (taxpayers), it comes out to a whopping $43 per person per year. That's less than $4 a month.

 

[Gallbaro]

When you divide that 1.5 billion figure by the population of California aged 18+ (taxpayers), it comes out to a whopping $43 per person per year. That's less than $4 a month.

I'm not arguing with you, just stating an issue in the current system.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

They have no idea how they're gonna pay for it huh? And it'll cost $400B (likely more). Doesn't look good. They can repurpose medicare and medicaid federal funds for some of it, but they will have to figure out how to get the rest. Increasing sales, income etc taxes is probably the only way.

It passed the senate, now it goes to the state assembly. When will that vote take place?

If it passes in the assembly, I'm assuming it then goes to the governor and he can sign it into law? Or do the constituents have any say in this and it'll go to a vote as well? If it's the former, I think it has a chance, if it's the latter, I think it's dead on the water. It would never pass the way it just passed the senate and they would have to be clear on how much taxes would go up. People wouldn't like that.

Can universal healthcare work on a state level? My fear is that this passes and is implemented only to fail miserably because you don't have the full weight of the country to absorb costs.

Sure it could. I'm for it as 1) It's not my state and 2) It would be a good trial to see how it does before I fully support it (again).

What happens if a resident of California goes to another state and then needs healthcare?

They are assed out. What happens if I live in NV or OR and get sick, do I just go over to the nearest CA city and get free healthcare without contributing to the pot?

Aw fuck, Trump still would need to sign off on Medicare/Medicaid rules.

Probably DOA because of that, but Cali leads the way as usual.

I think Trump would sign off if it's just adjusting on how the money is distributed into the CA system.

 

[phinious]

People always talk about the increase in taxes, but what about the decrease in health insurance costs for employees and employers?

 

[x5pence]

Recreational Marijuana taxes can probably cover a lot of the cost once those kick in, unless that's already earmarked for other purposes.

 

[CitizenVectron]

People always talk about the increase in taxes, but what about the decrease in health insurance costs for employees and employers?

Right. If you pay $2,000 more per year in taxes but $2,500 less in premiums, then you are $500 ahead.

 

[Pagusas]

People always talk about the increase in taxes, but what about the decrease in health insurance costs for employees and employers?

I wonder if employers will actually pass on the savings or just see it as a boost to their bottom line.

 

[phinious]

Right. If you pay $2,000 more per year in taxes but $2,500 less in premiums, then you are $500 ahead.

That's my thoughts, but why is it never brought up in the media? Are we wrong?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Prop 13 is going to squash this

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

I wonder if employers will actually pass on the savings or just see it as a boost to their bottom line.

The answer is pretty obvious.

 

[Pagusas]

People always talk about the increase in taxes, but what about the decrease in health insurance costs for employees and employers?

The answer is pretty obvious.

It was kinda the point I was trying to make

 

[Angry Grimace]

Here's how they plan to pay for this:

Basically

1. Healthcare
2. ?????
3. Profit(?)

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

That's my thoughts, but why is it never brought up in the media? Are we wrong?

You're not wrong, but it's not that black and white. It also does depend how much you make as well. Coloradocare (Single payer that got voted in colorado last year) had some calculator on your overall savings. IIRC, as a single person with no dependents, if you made over 60 or 70K a year or so you'd be in the red.

Here's how they plan to pay for this:

Basically

1. Healthcare
2. ?????
3. Profit(?)

15% increase on payroll tax or a 2% increase on sales tax means it's dead in the water if it goes to a popular vote IMO.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You're not wrong, but it's not that black and white. It also does depend how much you make as well. Coloradocare (Single payer that got voted in colorado last year) had some calculator on your overall savings. IIRC, as a single person with no dependents, if you made over 60 or 70K a year or so you'd be in the red.



15% increase on payroll tax or a 2% increase on sales tax means it's dead in the water if it goes to a popular vote IMO.

We have a supermajority requirement to increase basically any tax and our property taxes are capped at 1.0% because of Proposition 13. This is already dead in the water - its just showboating against Trumpcare

 

[Fenderputty]

We have a supermajority requirement to increase basically any tax and our property taxes are capped at 1.0% because of Proposition 13. This is already dead in the water - its just showboating against Trumpcare.

Democrats have a super majority in CA legislature. How many people in CA do you think would pay 2% more at the register if it means free healthcare? The other half of the tax comes from the wealthy business revenues, which when decoupled with employer insurance is a possible savings as well.

The 15% payroll tax would be suicide though

 

[Angry Grimace]

Democrats have a super majority in CA legislature. How many people in CA do you think would pay 2% more at the register if it means free healthcare? The other half of the tax comes from the wealthy business revenues, which when decoupled with employer insurance is a possible savings as well.

The 15% payroll tax would be suicide though

They don't have a supermajority's worth of votes for it in either the Senate or the Assembly.

And I think less people than you think would pay 2.0% on sales tax - this state loves being liberal as long as they can justify it as taxes on tourism or something they aren't paying for.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

i fucking hate traffic

Take the metro.

 

[Fenderputty]

They don't have a supermajority's worth of votes for it in either the Senate or the Assembly.

And I think less people than you think would pay 2.0% on sales tax - this state loves being liberal as long as they can justify it as taxes on tourism or something they aren't paying for.

They have more than 60% of the seats in both houses?

2% at the register for free healthcare? You really think people ain't going for that right now?

 

[Angry Grimace]

They have more than 60% of the seats in both houses?

2% at the register for free healthcare? You really think people ain't going for that right now?

I don't think they have 66% of both houses willing and able to vote for this, nor do I think the general populace would pay 2% on sales tax, no.