Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.
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Female only gaming event cancelled following online harassment
- Thread starter kulapik
- Start date
Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.
CannonFodder52
Member
To my knowledge, women deal with a disproportionate amount of flirting and guys trying to pick them up at gyms. Gyms can also be really intimidating in the first place, without having to deal with that.
My school tried to implement 1 hour a week that would be women only, it shocked me when people I knew were outraged about it, people who don't even use the gym.
Something about hair colours and not shaving.
Valar morghulis.
Weltall Zero
Member
I 100% understand what you are saying. God, I understand it so well; I myself have snapped in exhaustion at the ignorance cycle more than a few times, it just never ever stops. It's absolutely soul-eroding even for a white guy like me, let alone for those directly affected.
If other people express that exhaustion as "fuck gaming" instead of my more direct (and probably more bannable) "fuck you"... yeah, I can kind of understand that. But "fuck you" only targets the offending party and at most gets me into trouble: "fuck gaming" may have less problematic consequences for oneself, but contributes more negatively to the general situation in many more subtle ways. So let's still try to exercise personal responsibility and try to direct criticism as narrowly and accurately as we can.
But what if there is men only events. Would that be fair or normal? NO.Whoever organized the event wanted a place where women could come and feel safe and not have to deal with all the usual bullshit from a significant amount of dudes who play games, like being hit on or given quizzes about Mario's inseam (and then call fake gamer grlz when they either don't participate in or fail such tests).
Same reason some places have women only gyms or women only hours at gyms. Women want to go to workout, not be subject to "lil mama let me get your number" or some dude butting in on her workout to show her how it's really done, completely unsolicited.
Same reason there are women only cars on some trains in Japan, there is a huge problem with people taking advantage of the overcrowded cars to grope women. People are usually able to accept the reason why those exist easily enough.
Edit: Dangit Budi.
Dont misinterpret me, men are disgusting in the gaming industry but you don't get anywhere by dividing more and more.
Weltall Zero
Member
If this is not satire, this may be the most hilariously and unintentionally insightful post in the entire thread. Because, surely, people can't be so clueless as to not understand why there are female only gyms, right? And thus by analogy they can understand why this event exists.
Of course, if this is indeed satire, bravo, sir; please refer to the closest mod for unjunioring.
CannonFodder52
Member
A men only event ins't contributory or necessary. Most gaming events are practically already men only events.
If there was a men only event, no one would have made a big fuss or even noticed.
So, my take as a spaniard gamer who has followed this issue as it unfolded:
FC is mostly the shittiest spanish forum but there are good and bad individuals, this year they also collected money to pay for a wheelchair for a disabled user that couldn't afford one, fwiw. Again, individuals.
I haven't seen any confirmation from king themselves saying they were shutting because of pressures, the only source for that is the event organizer Twitter afaik, check it out if you want to know more about that or her stance in all this.
I personally feel a gender-only event is a poor solution to a very big problem and I wish we could fix this in a less discriminatory way for either gender, like making women's panels at major events and giving more exposure to this problems so we can educate people rather than exclude them.
This in the end only fuels the fire which in turn makes more people annoyed on both sides and segregates us even further and gives more ammo to people that are not looking for equity but to give more shit to the other side.
Feminism is a great and necessary thing that pushes for equity but the its sometimes misrepresented by individuals that are not looking for equity.
I won't support fixing a problem by creating a different one and for some of us discrimination is bad, on either side. Discrimination is not better when its done by the weak or harassed side.
This whole story is really unfortunate and speaks really bad for gaming as a community.
Edit: also this threads are shit because seems like its impossible for most people to discuss without using sarcasm at every turn or making one liners without any insight.
FC is mostly the shittiest spanish forum but there are good and bad individuals, this year they also collected money to pay for a wheelchair for a disabled user that couldn't afford one, fwiw. Again, individuals.
I haven't seen any confirmation from king themselves saying they were shutting because of pressures, the only source for that is the event organizer Twitter afaik, check it out if you want to know more about that or her stance in all this.
I personally feel a gender-only event is a poor solution to a very big problem and I wish we could fix this in a less discriminatory way for either gender, like making women's panels at major events and giving more exposure to this problems so we can educate people rather than exclude them.
This in the end only fuels the fire which in turn makes more people annoyed on both sides and segregates us even further and gives more ammo to people that are not looking for equity but to give more shit to the other side.
Feminism is a great and necessary thing that pushes for equity but the its sometimes misrepresented by individuals that are not looking for equity.
I won't support fixing a problem by creating a different one and for some of us discrimination is bad, on either side. Discrimination is not better when its done by the weak or harassed side.
This whole story is really unfortunate and speaks really bad for gaming as a community.
Edit: also this threads are shit because seems like its impossible for most people to discuss without using sarcasm at every turn or making one liners without any insight.
You didn't answer that other poster though. If feminism isn't about equality, what is it about? You seem like a well-studied expert.
This question has been addressed over and over and...
How About No
Member
imo we need more mens only places and events
so sick of women grabbing my butt and saying demeaning things to me about wanting to take me home with them. heard it happening with some other guys I know too
and then when I attempt intellectual discourse with them they're always slowly explaining things that I already know but them I tell them I know and they call me "uppity"
oh wait
that doesn't happen
so sick of women grabbing my butt and saying demeaning things to me about wanting to take me home with them. heard it happening with some other guys I know too
and then when I attempt intellectual discourse with them they're always slowly explaining things that I already know but them I tell them I know and they call me "uppity"
oh wait
that doesn't happen
Shit I've been doing feminism all wrong all these years. Thanks for showing me the light
Same shitty argument with new hat.
Don't forget people asking us men to smile more or asking if we game or what games we are buying for our spouses/children.
AtomskEater
Member
There are men-only events in Spain (where this took place). They take place all over the world, whether explicitly stated or otherwise. Personally I have no issue with men-only events, and probably wouldn't want to attend one anyway.
You also have to consider how things have historically worked, regarding men and women only spaces.
"The difference is that the primary function of men-only spaces throughout history has been to exclude women from power. Examples include the priesthood/ministry in Christianity; executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government (women werent even allowed to serve on juries for a long time); academic institutions; corporate board rooms; business clubs for men where a lot of job opportunities were found. Even today theres a big fight in the Anglican Communion about female vicars and female bishops, and most mosques do not allow female imams.
Women-only spaces are generally set up to provide physically safe spaces for women (domestic violence shelters), and spaces in which men will not dominate in conversation because of their (frequently, not always) more aggressive conversational style. It is comparatively rare for a woman-only space to have actual power over something that men are interested in having power over too. Woman-only spaces tend to be more social or support-based than managerial or authoritative."
Took that from a quora response about the same issue.
ow my butt
How do you know when they couldn't even have this event, maybe it would had led to something good. That was the intention of it. There was no malice behind the event. It wasn't about dividing. It's about offering a place to discuss for discriminated group.
A men-only event would be a declaration of that which does not need to be declared. In other words, there actually are men-only events, they just exist as a natural consequence of gaming being a space that is simultaneously dominated by men and hostile to women. Choose any gaming event or private party anywhere on the globe that's going on right now or in the future-- 99 times out of 100 there are only or mostly going to be men there. Hence, the need to have and advertise women's events.
That's the reason a men's only event would be seen in bad taste. Not because it's discriminatory, but because you're just further running up the score and acting as if there exists an equivalent social playing field when there doesn't, because you perceive women's only spaces as a "perk" you don't get access to, rather than a response to the overall narrative that is gaming being dominated by men already.
Granted, I'm not theoretically opposed to advertised men-only gaming events, if only because it would further separate the whiny boys from society at large. Basically, if we give them their parties, maybe they'll be quiet about the evils of feminism in gaming.
Do the math
How About No
Member
The math...? You gonna at least give us some formulas to follow, buddy?
Thanks god I have someone like you to teach me about feminism
clearestblue
Neo Member
That's not an answer
Sounds like you might be scared to come out and say something here. Ever thought about why that might be?
clearestblue
Neo Member
It's funny how often people believe this considering mainstream feminism is about as male friendly as it can get, and they STILL think it's about hating men
You are really short on arguments and reasoning, how doesn't that make you realize that you aren't standing on a firm ground. When you can't even properly defend the stance you take. Just repeating those few words you have been doing isn't convincing anyone. You really should be clearer than that.
Weltall Zero
Member
You know what? At this point I'm 100% for the existence of men only events if it means shutting the hell up dudes using it as a (so they think) trump argument against women only events. Go on, dudes, organize your very own men only gaming event, have fun.
Here, I'm even providing the artwork for the flyers for you. Just go nuts.
Disclaimer: I know your post is satire. Mine is not, however, I'm 100 serious.
they're equally bad though. just as bad. equally bad
Hmm...
KazenY2J
Member
Intersectional feminism is a thing, my dude.
Lionel Richie
Member
Man I'm going to assume your heart is in the right place and you don't mean shit here, but you need to understand that "feminism is as bad as harassment", which is pretty much how your argument started, is a damn non starter. If you want to argue that feminism, as if it was a single thing but anyway, if you want to argue that how you view feminism is wrong and shit, I mean, you can, we're free to debate it. If you want to say it's bad for any reasons, that's a conversation. However, saying it's as bad as harassment is not the way to rationally discuss anything because that doesn't even make sense.
Weltall Zero
Member
More like he's trying to say feminism is about misandry but he doesn't know what "misandry" means.
But people, seriously, stop feeding the troll. Ignore, report and move on.
When minorities try to include themselves in the goings-on of the majority, they are inevitably cast out either through being undermined or outright harassed. They are seen as trying to include themselves where they don't belong, to impart negative political agendas, to change something that was working for the worse, and thus they're told "If our business is so offensive to you, make your own!"
But the kicker is that they don't expect you to make your own, because they don't believe you're capable and competent- if they did, they wouldn't have cast you out in the first place. So now that's also a problem, especially because they may have been criticized in the past for being exclusive.
They forget that they told you to make your own thing and thus don't understand that your thing only exists as a response to active exclusion. They can only see a superficial hypocrisy or double standard- that all exclusion in all forms is bad because their feelings were hurt over it- and they think your thing is the same as their thing. So they co-opt the language and leaders of the oppressed- "It's discrimination!" "It's racist/sexist" "It's segregation!" "MLK wouldn't be down with this!"
The fact is, people who have a problem with minority-only events on this principle don't want to deal with minorities' existence at all. They don't want to see you doing their own thing, and they sure as hell don't want you in with the club, and they'll say any dumbass thing to try and shut you up.
Trying to imply an event that doesn't has any ban entrance doesn't have as much attendance from certain demographic because "reasons" rather than the demographic not being enough interested to attend them.
But there are also events in other industries (which I've assisted) where this, in my opinion, dull argument could be related towards other demographics (gender, race, religion, politics).
I could be wrong, but has any E3 female attendant stated harassment, exclusion or something like it? Won't deny the issue exist in the industry (society in general) but trying to reduce it to "events don't have the same amount of woman that men because hostility" it's an example of what it's happenings this days with perception and opinions.
Music festivals (for example) have the same issues (if not bigger) and you can see far more equality in terms of assistance. Again, maybe interest has something to do with it.
Btw, and this it's my personal opinion and I'm providing it even knowing it'll be controversial. Can't see how an event only focused towards girls, that states men aren't allowed and if they try to attend they'll be denied, can provide something positive towards make the gaming community com along. I'm doubtful about the ideas those that organice the event can transmit. Especially when the amount of men that would have gone with out the restriction wouldn't being high anyway (But willing to listen and provide positive vibes).
That restriction to me provides animadversion.
Bobo Dakes
Member
#NotAllJuniorMembers
Why do you think women need to save the world to hang out with each other?
CannonFodder52
Member
Maybe they are talking about TERFs.
How About No
Member
More like he's trying to say feminism is about misandry but he doesn't know what "misandry" means.
But people, seriously, stop feeding the troll. Ignore, report and move on.
misandry's when you mess up your laundry and all your whites come out pink, right???
Weltall Zero
Member
Extremely enlightening as always, Nepenthe. Indeed, some (many?) men just want to have subservient women (and in my country, again, this was explicitly sanctioned and enforced by the official government until four decades ago). They don't want to have them around them if that means having to treat them as equals, but they also don't want them forming their own communities as that empowers them.
Wasn't "the demographic isn't enough interested" precisely the implication of the post? If not, what do you think it was?
LinkSlayer64
Member
Well, this sucks. bout all I can say.
Kinda funny in my head to imagine an all male conference though. Why instead of crashing this conference, do these people not just rally up and... make their own?
(besides because they're assholes of course.)
Kinda funny in my head to imagine an all male conference though. Why instead of crashing this conference, do these people not just rally up and... make their own?
(besides because they're assholes of course.)
Weltall Zero
Member
What, really? All this time I thought it was an unmarried female from the house of Andry... :/
Bobo Dakes
Member
Ignoring all past and current problems these groups have faced and putting them in a room together to hug it out like it's all going to go away in an instant doesn't make any sense.
I don't understand you "Sexism/racism will go away if we stop talking about it" types.
So isn't the problem the disrespect? Excluding males from events does not solve the problem to begin with. To be honest, its exactly the opposite of what we should fight for... equality.
Edit: I mean for instance afro american people get disrespected and harassed too, probably more often than women but the solution is not to do events only for afro americans.
I agree with you, although I think this won't be well received. Also great point on music festivals.
This is not a problem with gaming communities but with women's respect and should be singled out in every instance and swiftly dealt with by authorities.
I remember last year when someone at evo poked a girls ass and was called out, that is exactly what should happen on every instance and authorities must be immediately notified, not just when it happens in front of a camera on twitch.
Bobo Dakes
Member
The point of events like this isn't to solve sexism in the industry, it's to give women a safe space to meet and network over something they enjoy without worrying about being harassed.
Are some of you really that daft or stubborn that this needed to be repeated on every page?
AtomskEater
Member
Events like this are usually just to provide safe harbors for minorities in an industry that is largely male driven. I can't find anything that says it was about furthering some overall goal in the gaming community at large (aside from some networking, which may have helped with getting more women into the gaming industry). Women only spaces are usually about social support over pushing forward grand plans for unification.
Literally have seen this in action. "If you don't like it, make your own games!" "Okay. *makes a boy dating sim or w/e*" "What is this gay shit, get it out of gaming!"
No. Clearly this event is about disrespecting men. Come on now.
Safe space and worrying of being harassed are things that shouldn't happen and neither of them is fixed by excluding them (or men) while it also aggravates the problem.
Also the "repeated on every page" doesn't make it any more factual nor proves anybodys point aside from getting tiresome.