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[Nirolak]

The Switch will be fine.



Development takes time. Third-parties did not know if the Switch would be a success. So here we are. If their games work on the platform, they'll get onboard.

Most publishers had also adjusted their strategy away from handhelds, so it wasn't like they felt compelled to get on board the instant the Switch released to continue on their business lines.

If your focus is on pumping out mobile games aimed at Japan and console titles aimed at a global audience, and then you have some cheaper licensed Vita/PS4 games that sell to fans of whatever anime is on this season, it's not exactly an emergency to get on board the way it was for Western console publishers to prove consoles could still do well in the West back in 2013.

 

[Branduil]

I think price is something they are definitely going to have to address by Pokemon.

It's considerably more expensive than any handheld they have previously had.

A dockless, integrated handheld could likely be $150 by 2019.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

I can see Nintndo selling a dockless switch. Feels like a Nintendo thing to do. It'll just still be able to connect to docks that Nintendo already sell separately and not force families to have a new dock for each new switch sku they have.

That's definitely the next revision just to cut the price for Kids . Also giving they are selling separate docks and 3rd party docks should be hitting the market soon.

 

[MoonFrog]

Now this I could understand. A cheaper SKU that doesn't have the dock included, but still has the ability to dock (you just have to buy it separately) was one that I honestly thought would have existed at launch.

They just need to drop the dock prices if they do that though.

This way they're forcing buyers to have the ability to try it as intended, i.e. as a hybrid, rather than letting people be convinced by their current use habits to not have that ability. I think they want hybrid to catch on too as that's a unique and potentially exciting feature of the console.

 

[MoonFrog]

Most publishers had also adjusted their strategy away from handhelds, so it wasn't like they felt compelled to get on board the instant the Switch released to continue on their business lines.

If your focus is on pumping out mobile games aimed at Japan and console titles aimed at a global audience, and then you have some cheaper licensed Vita/PS4 games that sell to fans of whatever anime is on this season, it's not exactly an emergency to get on board the way it was for Western console publishers to prove consoles could still do well in the West back in 2013.

And back to the depressing side of Nintendo's position, sandwiched between a more lucrative market at home, despite doing great by historical standards, and abroad, despite doing okay.

 

[Rolf NB]

I can see Nintndo selling a dockless switch. Feels like a Nintendo thing to do. It'll just still be able to connect to docks that Nintendo already sell separately and not force families to have a new dock for each new switch sku they have.

Now this I could understand. A cheaper SKU that doesn't have the dock included, but still has the ability to dock (you just have to buy it separately) was one that I honestly thought would have existed at launch.

They just need to drop the dock prices if they do that though.

The dock costs almost nothing to make, and removing it from the package wouldn't facilitate a price drop.
The road to a cheaper Switch is to cut down the GPU so it supports only the undocked performance profile, and make the thing physically and logically incompatible with the dock so people don't get ideas.

 

[Calm Mind]

Nirolak is like the Buzz Killington of Media Create threads.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Most publishers had also adjusted their strategy away from handhelds, so it wasn't like they felt compelled to get on board the instant the Switch released to continue on their business lines.

If your focus is on pumping out mobile games aimed at Japan and console titles aimed at a global audience, and then you have some cheaper licensed Vita/PS4 games that sell to fans of whatever anime is on this season, it's not exactly an emergency to get on board the way it was for Western console publishers to prove consoles could still do well in the West back in 2013.

It isn't, but I'm not surprised that Japanese third party can be quickly evaluating how to include the Switch into their development forecasts just in hopes to catch the wave within its first two years.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

The dock costs almost nothing to make, and removing it from the package wouldn't facilitate a price drop.
The road to a cheaper Switch is to cut down the GPU so it supports only the undocked performance profile, and make the thing physically and logically incompatible with the dock so people don't get ideas.

The chip is just a standard Tegra X1 and it just clocks higher docked. How would they be able to cut it down to be cheaper?

 

[SinCityAssassin]

The chip is just a standard Tegra X1 and it just clocks higher docked. How would they be able to cut it down to be cheaper?

They won't cut down anything, it'll just be cheaper to produce in two years so they'll cut down the price to 250 and release a Pascal model with better battery at 300.

 

[ethomaz]

The dock costs almost nothing to make, and removing it from the package wouldn't facilitate a price drop.
The road to a cheaper Switch is to cut down the GPU so it supports only the undocked performance profile, and make the thing physically and logically incompatible with the dock so people don't get ideas.

Wut?

There is nothing into the X1 chip exclusively to docked mode... it only increase the clocks in dock.

What can you cut if Portable Mode uses 100% of the chip???

 

[Nirolak]

It isn't, but I'm not surprised that Japanese third party can be quickly evaluating how to include the Switch into their development forecasts just in hopes to catch the wave within its first two years.

I'd be surprised if ports for most of the stuff Japanese publishers make didn't show up by Fall 2018.

It's a very natural transition from PS4/Vita to PS4/Switch.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Do people think Technology will remain the same? The current Switch form factor has the potential to become even smaller hence why I expect Nintendo to go for it. Smaller size, less heat generated, less expensive to produce. Release in late 2018/2019 and capitalize on the big library already there for it.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

They won't cut down anything, it'll just be cheaper to produce in two years so they'll cut down the price to 250 and release a Pascal model with better battery at 300.

I'd be surprised if the Switch was only reduced $50 in price 2 years from now. I don't think they release a pascal model either as a revision. Would have to be something else. And yah I know they wont cut down the switch's GPU, was just highlighting the none sense there.

 

[Reki]

Do people think Technology will remain the same? The current Switch form factor has the potential to become even smaller hence why I expect Nintendo to go for it. Smaller size, less heat generated, less expensive to produce. Release in late 2018/2019 and capitalize on the big library already there for it.

I think an XL revision and a pricedrop for the OG model is more likely tbh.

 

[Rolf NB]

Wut?

There is nothing into the X1 chip exclusively to docked mode... it only increase the clocks in dock.

What can you cut if Portable Mode uses 100% of the chip???

They could cut it in half and clock it higher to compensate. Should be cheaper to make.
Note that clocks would still be lower than current Switch docked mode, so the architecture can definitely do it without problem.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

I think an XL revision and a pricedrop for the OG model is more likely tbh.

XL? More like SL. Switch is already big enough as it is.

 

[Immaculate]

I think an XL revision and a pricedrop for the OG model is more likely tbh.

its already pretty big as is. its the size of a new 3DS XL when closed without the joycons attached

edit:lol

 

[Skittzo0413]

Do people think Technology will remain the same? The current Switch form factor has the potential to become even smaller hence why I expect Nintendo to go for it. Smaller size, less heat generated, less expensive to produce. Release in late 2018/2019 and capitalize on the big library already there for it.

The main problems with cutting down the size are the joycons and the dock. Unless you want to piss off consumers, it would be important to make sure all joycons and all docks work with any revision, so it would be difficult to actually make it much smaller and still have the joycons be attachable in the same way. I guess the main thing they could do is cut down on the length without changing the width or thickness dimensions at all. Or they could just go the other route and make a Switch that doesn't have detachable joycons and needs an adapter to dock in the original docks. But I have my doubts about that.

Instead, what I think will happen with a revision is just a die shrink to 16nm to be able to remove the internal fan and ideally improve battery life. Beyond removing the fan (and maybe vents too?) I don't think they'll change much about the general design for any revisions that are happening soon.

I could see some very different revisions happening towards the peak/end of its life though, like in 2021+.

XL? More like SL. Switch is already big enough as it is.

But Nintendo has nearly a decade of data saying consumers like or even prefer bigger handhelds. DSXL and 3DSXL constantly outsell the other form factors I believe. People generally don't think the Switch is too big to be a handheld, that's just the way it is.

 

[Skullwaker]

I think an XL revision and a pricedrop for the OG model is more likely tbh.

I can't see them making an XL version of the Switch. It's already quite big compared to any other handheld released.

Edit: ninja'd

 

[Principate]

The dock costs almost nothing to make, and removing it from the package wouldn't facilitate a priblisjed ce drop.
The road to a cheaper Switch is to cut down the GPU so it supports only the undocked performance profile, and make the thing physically and logically incompatible with the dock so people don't get ideas.

The reason why I mentioned a dockless sku is because it's still an extra cost. Keep in mind this is a company that doesn't sell a 3DS xl with a charger included in Europe and Japan to "save costs". Of everything the dock will probably be one of the first things to go once the switch has established itself enough that there wouldn't be any confusion like with the 2DS

 

[cw_sasuke]

Even a more compact Switch in 12-18 months won't be sold for cheap if the demand is still up. Their target is probably 200 bucks for the smaller Switch while the regular one night get dropped to 250 or they keep the price and start with bundles at the current price point.

The Switch will be more expensive in the end and more importantly the software will be more expensive... Pokemon or Animal Crossing on Switch will be quite a bit more expensive compared to their past handheld counterparts, so I'm interested to see how Nintendo will tackle that situation.

I also don't think that the price is AS important of the quality is there to back it up .The 2DS/3DS/XL sales progression showed us a lot about it. Switch offers more than past Nintendo systems and us a much more flexible system... Customers will have to pay for the premium, which is why I'm willing to believe Nintendo if they say they ate willing to keep the 3DS line around. Big Nintendo IPs or a console for sub150 aren't happening anytime soon.

 

[MHWilliams]

Most publishers had also adjusted their strategy away from handhelds, so it wasn't like they felt compelled to get on board the instant the Switch released to continue on their business lines.

If your focus is on pumping out mobile games aimed at Japan and console titles aimed at a global audience, and then you have some cheaper licensed Vita/PS4 games that sell to fans of whatever anime is on this season, it's not exactly an emergency to get on board the way it was for Western console publishers to prove consoles could still do well in the West back in 2013.

Nirolak up in here killing hopes and wishes.

I do think that a few years, it'll be harder for some of the major (non-Japanese) publishers to rock with the platform, as the baseline will slowly move up to catch up with the Pro consoles, or Sony simply drops a PS5.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

I do think that a few years, it'll be harder for some of the major (non-Japanese) publishers to rock with the platform, as the baseline will slowly move up to catch up with the Pro consoles, or Sony simply drops a PS5.

The Switch+

 

[Graphics Horse]

I can't see them making an XL version of the Switch. It's already quite big compared to any other handheld released.

Edit: ninja'd

They could do one the same size but with a 7 inch OLED screen if people would pay for it.
I don't see them doing one with a 40% increase like the old XLs but you never know.

 

[watershed]

I can't wait for the day Nintendo finally ends 3ds production and reveals a new Switch SKU that is cheaper and aimed at Nintendo's portable-only consumers. Then we can finally end this silly debate about the Switch replacing the 3ds or not. The Switch is replacing the 3ds. That's going to happen, end of story. Nintendo just hasn't pulled the trigger yet.

 

[Reki]

XL? More like SL. Switch is already big enough as it is.

its already pretty big as is. its the size of a new 3DS XL when closed without the joycons attached

edit:lol

I can't see them making an XL version of the Switch. It's already quite big compared to any other handheld released.

Edit: ninja'd

I'm not thinking in a bigger console - that would break compatibility with current accesories - but a bigger screen by reducing the bezels. I'm not sure it could be done, but that with a better battery/more efficient chip and larger storage and you have an XL revision.

Edit: and that's without even considering the chances of a Switch Pro, that could as well be the same as the XL if they are upgrading the internals.

 

[Fiendcode]

I do think that a few years, it'll be harder for some of the major (non-Japanese) publishers to rock with the platform, as the baseline will slowly move up to catch up with the Pro consoles, or Sony simply drops a PS5.

I doubt Pro ever becomes the baseline with the way it's been positioned and performed. Switch already has a larger userbase than it iirc. It'll have to PS5 before we really see Sony moving their baseline.

 

[Kyoufu]

I do think that a few years, it'll be harder for some of the major (non-Japanese) publishers to rock with the platform, as the baseline will slowly move up to catch up with the Pro consoles, or Sony simply drops a PS5.

I think that's already the case though. Western multiplatform games will skip Switch for obvious technical reasons. The most notable software from a western third party publisher is a Mario game.

 

[MoonFrog]

Switch being as powerful as it is and a hybrid is going to help it get software from PS4 and I also think most software it stands to lose from DS to mobile was already lost in the 3DS generation.

3DS was already down to mostly just the games that were less well suited to immediate mobile release.

 

[Nirolak]

I do think that a few years, it'll be harder for some of the major (non-Japanese) publishers to rock with the platform, as the baseline will slowly move up to catch up with the Pro consoles, or Sony simply drops a PS5.

With major Western publishers, I'm not actually sure they'll ever show up in force to begin with.

Like, we're most of the way through Western announcement season, and the line-up consists of LEGO, Ubisoft's family/all ages content, Toys To Life (what's left of it), select sports titles, and Skyrim.

Indies and people who publish indie-like games show up a lot more, but they're usually way less technologically bound in general, and happier with a much smaller sales volume when adding additional platforms.

 

[AniHawk]

With major Western publishers, I'm not actually sure they'll ever show up in force to begin with.

Like, we're most of the way through Western announcement season, and the line-up consists of LEGO, Ubisoft's family/all ages content, Toys To Life (what's left of it), select sports titles, and Skyrim.

Indies and people who publish indie-like games show up a lot more, but they're usually way less technologically bound in general, and happier with a much smaller sales volume when adding additional platforms.

my expectation with the platform was always:

western - indies and family games
japanese - vita/ps4 ecosystem, 3ds games

big international stuff from any side of the pond was always going to be a hard sell. call of duty, assassin's creed, final fantasy mainline games aren't going to be a focus. i do think that big stuff that generally succeeds in japan (monster hunter, dragon quest, level-5) will do well too. the result is going to be a platform with a very different yet viable userbase from the ps4 and xb1. or maybe in other words, the vita except popular and successful.

 

[Calm Mind]

Thankfully, I have enough hope in the platform than most.

My estimates of the Switch outselling the PS4's LTD in Japan is on track and ahead of schedule.

 

[MoonFrog]

I mean, I think Switch will get a healthy portion of the Japanese games we think it is good for/want it to get. I just don't think it'll get ALL of them and therein lies the potential for disappointment/frustration. What I'm most curious about is how close to ideal it gets.

This is what I mean:

I think Switch will always suffer from being Japanese console market leader, but behind in RotW. By that I mean, it will always be sandwiched between mobile and PS4.

The new software support (i.e. stuff coming over from PS ecosystem) it should suit really well has two shapes, imo:

-Middle tier Japanese software that could see growth at home by being on a portable and wouldn't be "hard" to port. Stuff that doesn't depend on insane western sales and could use a modest boost at home too. A Persona 5 Portable is the sort of thing I mean here.

-Stuff that has depended on a mixed portable/stationary audience in Japan but needs somewhere to go after Vita. Think Falcom.

The kinds of games I'm not talking about are things like FFXV that push PS4 hard and are geared towards trying to crack deeper into the western market.

There are, however, things that hold this sort of support back. Think Falcom again. They don't tend to port their own stuff. They have a relationship with Sony. They are small.

Companies might just settle on staying in the PS ecosystem on one platform rather than expanding to another platform. They might not have the 'mobility' to transition or the interest in trying another ecosystem. They might have a special relationship with Sony.

And this applies to companies choosing between PS4 and Switch too. There are reasons to go in on both, but PS4 might often be more enticing with its RotW reach and they might be content with what they can achieve on one platform.

That said, I do think PS4/Switch should be a really attractive idea in theory. I praise the idea endlessly in these threads and others. I expect there to be slippage between ideal and real adoption of the model.

...

At the same time, 3DS style support will probably take a hit to mobile and to more intensive development beyond considerations of PS4. Moreover, when forced to upscale, companies might even go "why not upscale to PS4 instead? There's a bigger market there." Not saying that this WILL happen, but I don't think it is as simple as "Switch is successful successor, go to Switch."

...

You could just brush what I said under "Games don't always land on every platform they make sense on."

 

[James Scott]

I dont think Switch will ever get major western support, not that it entirely needs it.
Games like AC are probably too hard to run on Switch, though I think k Ubisoft will try and create more AA/smaller titles focusing on Switch. Games like Raymond Legends, Grow Home, South Park, Starlink, etc.
Games that should run on Switch no problem.
An indie has been porting some of the more impressive iPhone games to Switch like Implosion. I wonder if someone like Ubisoft would be up to creating portable AC entities like Identity for Switch and mobile

Should be able to run well, they can probably sell it at retail for $30 or so too.

As for Japanese support, i dont see any of the major publishers ignoring Switch. Vita has been dead for awhile and 3DS has like a year left in it. The last major handheld will likely have some pull, and I see more support than previously seen even if fewer exclusives.
While it may have "lost" MH, even if temporarily, it should make up for it with DQ, Splatoon, XX, and Pokémon by next year.

Overall I don't think we'll be seeing a clearer picture until next year. For whatever reason it seems like every major publisher got caught with their pants down.
Namco's first game is the arcade collection?
Capcom seemingly had no plans for Switch.
Ubisoft just had Just Dance at launch though Rabbids has been in the works for awhile.
We'll see.

 

[Terrell]

The Persona Q series is a damn strange one. A fan service spin-off on a system that doesn't has any of the main series games. Almost as if its made so that Atlus can say that their biggest IP is in Japan strongest system and little else.

That, or the argument of "keeping the games where the fans are" arguments is completely BS.

The latter. Though perhaps not "complete BS" so much as "not as valid as people make it seem".

The main problems with cutting down the size are the joycons and the dock. Unless you want to piss off consumers, it would be important to make sure all joycons and all docks work with any revision, so it would be difficult to actually make it much smaller and still have the joycons be attachable in the same way.

Here is the thing: any trimmed-down revision isn't likely to sell to people who own a Switch or want one as it exists, it's going to sell to people who want a smaller form factor that's usually associated with handhelds, or something more durable, or something with a higher battery life, or people who are more price-sensitive, and are willing to accept that it won't be exactly what the Switch currently does to do it, particularly the single-screen on-the-go multiplayer and TV mode. So having Joycon slots? Not a priority to them. Being able to dock it? Not a priority to them.

That being said, I don't expect such a revision to have the sales potential of a DS/3DS on its own. Many people who own(ed) a 3DS and interested in Switch software are very well-served by the Switch as it currently exists. But there is no one form factor that can sell to everyone. Apple learned this lesson with iPhone and iPad, and I'm sure it's something Nintendo is quite familiar with, as well.

But Nintendo has nearly a decade of data saying consumers like or even prefer bigger handhelds. DSXL and 3DSXL constantly outsell the other form factors I believe. People generally don't think the Switch is too big to be a handheld, that's just the way it is.

There's quite a size disparity between DSXL/3DSXL and Switch, so saying "people are OK with 3DSXL so why would any decent number of people want a smaller one" isn't a good argument to make. And that's without considering that there's certainly a lot of other factors, like durability, which the XL series didn't really have to compromise to make it bigger, and was thus an easier sell to the people whom durability matters to.

I can't wait for the day Nintendo finally ends 3ds production and reveals a new Switch SKU that is cheaper and aimed at Nintendo's portable-only consumers. Then we can finally end this silly debate about the Switch replacing the 3ds or not. The Switch is replacing the 3ds. That's going to happen, end of story. Nintendo just hasn't pulled the trigger yet.

It would be rather helpful, yes.

 

[Calm Mind]

The Persona Q series is a damn strange one. A fan service spin-off on a system that doesn't has any of the main series games. Almost as if its made so that Atlus can say that their biggest IP is in Japan strongest system and little else.

That, or the argument of "keeping the games where the fans are" arguments is completely BS.

It's a little of both. A mainline Persona game will never be on a Nintendo platform so long as Sony is invested in it.

 

[foxuzamaki]

It's a little of both. A mainline Persona game will never be a on a Nintendo platform so long as Sony is invested in it.

I mean, how invested are they?I don't think Sony has anything to do with P4 and P3's success, and for P5 they made sure that there was a ps4 version but that ends there as far as we know

 

[orochi91]

It's a little of both. A mainline Persona game will never be on a Nintendo platform so long as Sony is invested in it.

I don't think Sony has anything to do with Persona, with respect to financial investments.

In fact, I'm not even sure why Atlus has kept mainline Persona as a PS exclusive after all these years, considering their prolific output on the DS/3DS.

What's the logic behind releasing Persona spin-offs on the 3DS, when none of the mainline games were released there?

 

[legend166]

Jesus Christ Nintendo. I am never going to use their PR quotes again.


Where do they move on from 3DS? Wii U? Mobile? No shit they are moving to Switch. What I am talking about here though is a more cheaper, portable hardware with the same OS so essentially the same base as the Switch. This is when Nintendo will kill the 3DS. In the current hybrid form of Switch, they won't be killing the handheld so easily.

So you're saying they'll release a Switch without the dock (and some hardware revision on the handheld)?

But they'll still run the same games, right?

That's still a Switch though.

And I don't see any reason for Nintendo to do it. Whatever the dock costs in manufacturing (which wouldn't be much) would be more than made up by Nintendo pushing extra accessories that come with having a home console (mainly extra controllers).

 

[ggx2ac]

Whether or not the Switch has a revision that makes it smaller or bigger, don't forget the original would be revised as well.

No point in still using a 20nm TX1 SoC when shrinking the node will provide more efficient power consumption.

Hence, you'll either see one revision appear: revise original. Or two revisions appear at the same time: original (revised) and a different sized Switch.

 

[MoonFrog]

I don't think Sony has anything to do with Persona, with respect to financial investments.

In fact, I'm not even sure why Atlus has kept mainline Persona as a PS exclusive after all these years, considering their prolific output on the DS/3DS.

What's the logic behind releasing Persona spin-offs on the 3DS, when none of the mainline games were released there?

If they do a Persona 5 revision, that'll be the test.

The place it makes most sense to go to is Switch (and as re-release/DLC for PS3/4 version).

Handheld makes sense. JRPG works well on handheld. There is a strong domestic audience and a further unique selling point against the original version: portability.

Switch is the handheld best suited to a PS3 port. It is also the handheld with the most forward growth potential at the moment.

If P5R happens and is just a PS3/4 re-release, or even hits Vita instead that'll be a) odd and b) a sign that Atlus thinks mainline Persona only makes sense on PS for whatever reason.

If a Persona revision comes to Switch, chances are good future entries in the series could follow and that things like Hashino's new project could come. If it doesn't (and still exists), I don't think the chances of that are strong.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I don't think Sony has anything to do with Persona, with respect to financial investments.

In fact, I'm not even sure why Atlus has kept mainline Persona as a PS exclusive after all these years, considering their prolific output on the DS/3DS.

What's the logic behind releasing Persona spin-offs on the 3DS, when none of the mainline games were released there?

Yeah, same thing with SMT - Atlus is just weird as hell.

 

[sense]

I could be wrong but I thought persona being exclusive has something to do with aniplex involved with the anime and soundtrack and all that stuff and them being owned by Sony music.

 

[Busaiku]

I could be wrong but I thought persona being exclusive has something to do with aniplex involved with the anime and soundtrack and all that stuff and them being owned by Sony music.

That has nothing to do with the games.

 

[Calm Mind]

I don't think Sony has anything to do with Persona, with respect to financial investments.

In fact, I'm not even sure why Atlus has kept mainline Persona as a PS exclusive after all these years, considering their prolific output on the DS/3DS.

What's the logic behind releasing Persona spin-offs on the 3DS, when none of the mainline games were released there?

Lonely1 above touched on that. It's most likely to fill an obligation to investors.

 

[ggx2ac]

I could be wrong but I thought persona being exclusive has something to do with aniplex involved with the anime and soundtrack and all that stuff and them being owned by Sony music.

That suggests Sony music or Aniplex owns the rights to the multimedia projects i.e. anime.

You'd have to go check the Persona 5 video game credits to see if Sony owns the game/IP itself.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Atlus is just a small company that moves very slow .
There is not much more to it .
Still i can't remember if Sony ask them to make a version of P5 for PS4 or they did that there self .

 

[Eolz]

Atlus is just a small company that moves very slow .
There is not much more to it .
Still i can't remember if Sony ask them to make a version of P5 for PS4 or they did that there self .

They did that after delaying the game multiple times and noticing that the userbase finally transitioned to PS4 in all regions.
Nothing to do with Sony, it was just common sense and a really lazy port.

 

[Skullwaker]

They did that after delaying the game multiple times and noticing that the userbase finally transitioned to PS4 in all regions.
Nothing to do with Sony, it was just common sense and a really lazy port.

Is it? I played through it and didn't notice any issues in particular.