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[PdotMichael]

I don't think this is going to be true in the long term. I think this is certainly true now, because like I've been saying for a year now, I simply don't see the Switch as a 3DS replacement in 2017 itself. Nintendo's plan for it has been really clear - they needed a replacement for the WiiU which was deader than dead. The Switch fills that void now by offering console-level Nintendo games on a system that isn't retail poison. It also offers portability which is a plus too. The 3DS continues to be supported because any 3DS game coming out within this year or early next year which is substantial would have been already in development before the Switch was released.

Beyond 2017, the Switch is absolutely a replacement for the 3DS. We will see Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Monster Hunter, top down Zelda, Mario RPG, etc on the Switch. Some of them will have higher production values than before, but that would be part of the natural tech creep. Games on Vita and PSP were already way more advanced than DS/3DS in the same generation. Now there will be another leap. But not every game will need to look like BotW. The expectations will actually be a huge range across the board because different gamers have different interests and now every demographic are going to demand the best.

Only that we have already seen a massive decrease of games for 3DS and Vita compared to the NDS/PSP generation. At the same time we are seeing several typical handheld games companies and developements are moving to mobile, so even if there is a market for games only a step above Vita games production values wise, I don't think is a sustainable market for such games.
I expect the amount of games will decrease further and we see Switch/PS4 multiplatform games as standard for even the most Japanese centric games.

When the PS5 and Xbox whatever are coming around you're not going to be seeing publishers prioritising Switch over them because they'll understand the important of getting their early and establishing a userbase for their products.

You already forgot the long transition phase of the PS4 in Japan?

 

[Delio]

With KT's big Switch support and Capcom dragging their feet they could really beat Capcom to the punch with Toukiden on the system. Even a port of Toukiden 2 (which is on PS4, PS3, and Vita) would be a very fitting start, giving people a legit native HD hunting game on a portable, where as XX is a 3DS port.

I kind of always wondered if Nintendo would ever dip into the hunting genre. I'd like to see their take on it.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I kind of always wondered if Nintendo would ever dip into the hunting genre. I'd like to see their take on it.

I've wanted this forever. It may not be able to topple the Monster Hunter juggernaut, but I really want to see them put their own spin on it.

 

[Kyoufu]

With KT's big Switch support and Capcom dragging their feet they could really beat Capcom to the punch with Toukiden on the system. Even a port of Toukiden 2 (which is on PS4, PS3, and Vita) would be a very fitting start, giving people a legit native HD hunting game on a portable, where as XX is a 3DS port.

The fanxiety must be real here when people are even imagining Toukiden eating Monster Hunter's lunch LMAO. Especially Toukiden 2 which is dog shit... lol.

 

[cw_sasuke]

The fanxiety must be real here when people are even imagining Toukiden eating Monster Hunter's lunch LMAO. Especially Toukiden 2 which is dog shit... lol.

As of now Monster Hunters on Switch is just XX - a port of a 3DS game. I dont think its unrealistic to expect other similar games to perform as well or better before Capcom gets around to release another MH on Switch.

 

[Jawbreaker]

How were Vita fans rationalizing Toukiden when they realized mainline Monster Hunter was never arriving on the system?

 

[Lonely1]

The fanxiety must be real here when people are even imagining Toukiden eating Monster Hunter's lunch LMAO. Especially Toukiden 2 which is dog shit... lol.

Splatoon might, though.

You already forgot the long transition phase of the PS4 in Japan?

No. An important part of why Japan has lost so much relevance in the modern VG market...

 

[Principate]

Only that we have already seen a massive decrease of games for 3DS and Vita compared to the NDS/PSP generation. At the same time we are seeing several typical handheld games companies and developements are moving to mobile, so even if there is a market for games only a step above Vita games production values wise, I don't think is a sustainable market for such games.
I expect the amount of games will decrease further and we see Switch/PS4 multiplatform games as standard for even the most Japanese centric games.



You already forgot the long transition phase of the PS4 in Japan?

Technically the opposite is happening. For Nintendo handhelds anyway. While retail releases are way down digital only releases are way up. That's because the 3DS reviewed fuck all indie third party support. Japanese support in general is down but the majority of 3DS sales game from megafranchises which is why despite having 5 times the hardware sales of the vita it has roughly similar attach ratio. These domestic mega franchises are Nintendo greatest concern for which they already won the majority. It's why MH loss was an undeniable hit.

It's a interesting mix really.

 

[PdotMichael]

Technically the opposite is happening. For Nintendo handhelds anyway. While retail releases are way down digital only releases are way up. That's because the 3DS reviewed fuck all indie third party support. Japanese support in general is down but the majority of 3DS sales game from megafranchises which is why despite having 5 times the hardware sales of the vita it has roughly similar attach ratio. These domestic mega franchises are Nintendo greatest concern for which they already won the majority. It's why MH loss was an undeniable hit.

It's a interesting mix really.

I would claim that Nintendo lost their grap on the big third party IPs. Dragon Quest is on PS4 as well, Monter Hunter World is at least for a unknown time a PS4 exclusive title in Japan.
It's just natural if the big publishers are forced to get into the international market more aggresively.

 

[Principate]

I would claim that Nintendo lost their grap on the big third party IPs. Dragon Quest is on PS4 as well, Monter Hunter World is at least for a unknown time a PS4 exclusive title in Japan.
It's just natural if the big publishers are forced to get into the international market more aggresively.

DQXI had ports two Nintendo handhelds whereas the Vita didn't get a version. MH is the only notable one which is telling of how few there actually are in Japan. Nintendo's greatest saving grace is that they make almost all of them.

Honestly if they weren't still trying to maintain a good relationship with capcom, making their own MH clone would be the easiest way to close that hole.

 

[Oregano]

They've released two Switch games in the system's first 6 months of life with more on the way.

Sure but that ignores the context of what those games actually are. Capcom(and Bandai Namco) have no current or future titles announced for Switch, only old rereleases.

You already forgot the long transition phase of the PS4 in Japan?

The difference continues to be that PS4 had a lack of releases in 2014 but had a lot of future support. The PS4 picked up in 2015 and started getting major releases but we're talking about 2018 games skipping Switch.

 

[Kyoufu]

Sure but that ignores the context of what those games actually are. Capcom(and Bandai Namco) have no current or future titles announced for Switch, only old rereleases.

Games take time and as Duckroll said, these games will require bigger production values going forward. They can't just shit out the same 240p Monster Hunter titles on considerably more powerful hardware and expect people to like it. Look at how poorly MHXX has done. That shit is getting tired and Capcom need to evolve the series and it looks they are starting with World.

 

[Oregano]

Games take time and as Duckroll said, these games will require bigger production values going forward. They can't just shit out the same 240p Monster Hunter titles on considerably more powerful hardware and expect people to like it. Look at how poorly MHXX has done. That shit is getting tired and Capcom need to evolve the series and it looks they are starting with World.

Yes.... and not on Switch.

 

[Kyoufu]

Yes.... and not on Switch.

But many of its features will probably trickle down into the Switch game. MH is an annual franchise so a 2019 release is probably a safe bet.

 

[13ruce]

I would claim that Nintendo lost their grap on the big third party IPs. Dragon Quest is on PS4 as well, Monter Hunter World is at least for a unknown time a PS4 exclusive title in Japan.
It's just natural if the big publishers are forced to get into the international market more aggresively.

Honestly i also think it's because people where not sure if Switch would do well, there was lots of skeptical talk around the Switch and after Wii U i can't blame no one really.

The success sure took some by surprise and Nintendo also only gave out dev kits to a select few wich explains the end of the year ports of indies and some of the 3rd party games.

Heck i was kinda a semi doomsayer even and said on gaf it would just pass wii u if lucky. Man i am glad i was super wrong.

Otherwise if not DQ Switch would just be skipped and maybe just maybe they might do another MH game on Switch.

It's not like the Wii days where the power difference was crazily different and luckily for devs Switch supports alot of engines to make portig easier sure the games wil never look as good as on ps4 and xbox one etc but it should be possible it would look like a mix of old and new gen graphics wise but i don't mind that. Way better than wii vs ps3 now that difference was insane.

Edit: ofcourse Switch won't get all 3rd party support that's a known thing but some is nice ofcourse.

 

[Aostia]

At this point there are

People who don't give a shit about switch that would justify even the dumbest move from third parties
People interest in the switch that blame third party for even the most obvious move

And than there are me and oregano that blame Nintendo to have pitched the console to third parties in a poor way not being able to gain any kind of confidence and consequently support for at least the first 18 months

 

[Oregano]

But many of its features will probably trickle down into the Switch game. MH is an annual franchise so a 2019 release is probably a safe bet.

As of now there is no Switch game. A 2019 release in the franchise is a safe bet but that could just be another PS4/XBO release.

Three years ago Ichinose's team working on Vita/PS4 was a safe bet.

 

[Kresnik258]

Sure but that ignores the context of what those games actually are. Capcom(and Bandai Namco) have no current or future titles announced for Switch, only old rereleases.

What even is the argument here? I mean, Capcom have already released and announced more relevant titles for Switch in ~ 6 months than they did in 5 years on Vita.

Bamco are in kind of a weird place though. The market of zero-budget anime-cash ins that they thrived on for PSP/DS and still managed to make for 3DS/Vita has probably diminished with the lowest common denominator hardware increasing with Switch. That's why they're now trying out higher-budget PS4 games with simultaneous western announcements I'm guessing.

But I'd still expect them to be massive, massive Switch supporters all the same.

 

[Lexxism]

Games take time and as Duckroll said, these games will require bigger production values going forward. They can't just shit out the same 240p Monster Hunter titles on considerably more powerful hardware and expect people to like it. Look at how poorly MHXX has done. That shit is getting tired and Capcom need to evolve the series and it looks they are starting with World.

No. Capcom already moved on with Nintendo console. That's why MH World is not on Switch.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

And than there are me and oregano that blame Nintendo to have pitched the console to third parties in a poor way not being able to gain any kind of confidence and consequently support for at least the first 18 months

:lol

 

[OrbitalBeard]

No. Capcom already moved on with Nintendo console. That's why MH World is not on Switch.

Even if Capcom has moved on from Switch (doubt it), Monster Hunter World certainly isn't the evidence of that. The game has been in development in some form since, like, 2013.

 

[TheLegendaryN]

Ahh, the atmosphere is great here.

Spoiler

And of course everyone's talking about Capcom again

 

[Oregano]

What even is the argument here? I mean, Capcom have already released and announced more relevant titles for Switch in ~ 6 months than they did in 5 years on Vita.

Bamco are in kind of a weird place though. The market of zero-budget anime-cash ins that they thrived on for PSP/DS and still managed to make for 3DS/Vita has probably diminished with the lowest common denominator hardware increasing with Switch. That's why they're now trying out higher-budget PS4 games with simultaneous western announcements I'm guessing.

But I'd still expect them to be massive, massive Switch supporters all the same.

Capcom had UMVC3 and SF x Tekken announced for Vita pre-launch.

Also Vita is a failure of a platform and it shouldn't even be a question that support for Switch should obliterate it.

 

[cw_sasuke]

And than there are me and oregano that blame Nintendo to have pitched the console to third parties in a poor way not being able to gain any kind of confidence and consequently support for at least the first 18 months

Thats not what Todd Howard said the Switch presentation prior to launch was one of the he has ever seen. Have a hard time believing that Nintendo could convince Bethesda and 2K to have something ready for the Holiday season while Capcom is deciding against Switch for every possible/viable product they had lined up for 2017.

 

[schuelma]

And than there are me and oregano that blame Nintendo to have pitched the console to third parties in a poor way not being able to gain any kind of confidence and consequently support for at least the first 18 months

The system has been out 6 months.

Its on pace to probably double the amount of Japanese 3rd party games released in first 9-10 months.

Its received multiple announcements last 3 weeks and still 3 weeks to go until TGS.

And you're claiming there will not be any support for at least 18 months?

 

[Kyoufu]

Capcom had UMVC3 and SF x Tekken announced for Vita pre-launch.

Also Vita is a failure of a platform and it shouldn't even be a question that support for Switch should obliterate it.

What about PS4? Capcom had what, Strider in the first year for that? Switch has better support when aligned lol.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

And than there are me and oregano that blame Nintendo to have pitched the console to third parties in a poor way not being able to gain any kind of confidence and consequently support for at least the first 18 months

Some third parties obviously didn't get the Switch concept and didn't realize its potential before launch. Hardly to blame Nintendo for this but only the short sighted publisher, among many developers Switch has been hit even before launch, but publisher had been short sighted as ever when it comes to new concepts.

 

[PantsuJo]

Ahh, the atmosphere is great here.

Spoiler

And of course everyone's talking about Capcom again

I mean, I don't understand all the fuss here about Capcom lack of releases on Switch.

Switch is made of high quality first party exclusives and legions of indies.
All good/excellent productions.

The same was for WiiU, sure, but there is no danger here: Switch is selling a LOT and it doesn't need the support of 3rd party at any costs.

Any real MH fan will buy MHWorld on PS4/Xone/PC.

Switch will be a perfect secondary-console for any other cool Nintendo games, between one Rathalos and another.

 

[TheLegendaryN]

The same was for WiiU, sure, but there is no danger here: Switch is selling a LOT and it doesn't need the support of 3rd party at any costs.

A healthy system has a good balance of first-party and third-party games. If Nintendo doesn't need any third-party games, then why did the Wii U fail?

 

[LordKano]

The system has been out 6 months.

Its on pace to probably double the amount of Japanese 3rd party games released in first 9-10 months.

Its received multiple announcements last 3 weeks and still 3 weeks to go until TGS.

And you're claiming there will not be any support for at least 18 months?

is that surprising really

 

[ggx2ac]

What about PS4? Capcom had what, Strider in the first year for that? Switch has better support when aligned lol.

Deep Down... they really screwed up with the Panta Rhei engine.

 

[PantsuJo]

A healthy system has a good balance of first-party and third-party games. If Nintendo doesn't need any third-party games, then why did the Wii U fail?

1. Gimmicks.
2. Bad name.
3. Need to buy accessories to play Wii games.
4. Bad marketing (especially in Europe)

Only this. A terribile combo.

Edit: Wrong price too, honestly.

 

[Sandfox]

Also Vita is a failure of a platform and it shouldn't even be a question that support for Switch should obliterate it.

Weren't you arguing against this not too long ago?

A healthy system has a good balance of first-party and third-party games. If Nintendo doesn't need any third-party games, then why did the Wii U fail?

The Wii U had a lot of other issues lol

 

[Principate]

A healthy system has a good balance of first-party and third-party games. If Nintendo doesn't need any third-party games, then why did the Wii U fail?

Poor release strategy and unappealing product. The third parties aren't selling the switch right now, that's ridiculous. They're helping but the concept, Zelda, Mario kart and now Splatoon in Japan at least are doing the heavy lifting.

 

[Branduil]

A healthy system has a good balance of first-party and third-party games. If Nintendo doesn't need any third-party games, then why did the Wii U fail?

Nintendo was busy saving the 3DS, and the Wii U was extremely unappealing hardware with the worst marketing in history of any major console.

Also, the Switch being a portable indie machine does help, even if only a little. There was zero reason to ever buy non-exclusive indies on the Wii U.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

A healthy system has a good balance of first-party and third-party games. If Nintendo doesn't need any third-party games, then why did the Wii U fail?

Because the Wii U was a fundamentally unattractive product. The third party situation certainly didn't help, but it wasn't the primary reason for its overall performance.

If Nintendo didn't receive a single third party game beyond 2017, it would still destroy Wii U's sales, because the concept of Switch is appealing to people + Nintendo will be able to support it in a much stronger way than WiI U, due to having more first party resources directed at it.

That being said, having strong third party support is obviously a huge plus.

 

[nightever]

With KT's big Switch support and Capcom dragging their feet they could really beat Capcom to the punch with Toukiden on the system. Even a port of Toukiden 2 (which is on PS4, PS3, and Vita) would be a very fitting start, giving people a legit native HD hunting game on a portable, where as XX is a 3DS port.

Bunch of late ports and no new game is not a big support. Remember KT port almost every new games to vita.

 

[Oregano]

What about PS4? Capcom had what, Strider in the first year for that? Switch has better support when aligned lol.

Fair point but Strider was at least a new game. Resident Evil Revelations released at the beginning of 2015 though and SFV was announced in late 2014. Are we going to see anything equivalent for Switch? EDIT: I forgot Deep Down was a thing too.

Weren't you arguing against this not too long ago?



The Wii U had a lot of other issues lol

What should happen=/=what does happen.

EDIT

Bunch of late ports and no new game is not a big support. Remember KT port almost every new games to vita.

Whilst their biggest gaames are skipping the platform Gust is releasing their games day-and-date(even if the ports leave a lot to be desired).

 

[Salvadora]

1. Gimmicks.
2. Bad name.
3. Need to buy accessories to play Wii games.
4. Bad marketing (especially in Europe)

Only this. A terribile combo.

Edit: Wrong price too, honestly.

Additionally, it lacked compelling Nintendo software until it was too late.

 

[Principate]

Bunch of late ports and no new game is not a big support. Remember KT port almost every new games to vita.

Fire emblem is a new game.

 

[LordKano]

Bunch of late ports and no new game is not a big support. Remember KT port almost every new games to vita.

Nights of Azure 2, the next Atelier, Fire Emblem Warriors and Nobunaga's Ambition 15 are all brand-new and there's even an exclusive. Koei Tecmo is heavily supporting the Switch.

 

[TheLegendaryN]

1. Gimmicks.
2. Bad name.
3. Need to buy accessories to play Wii games.
4. Bad marketing (especially in Europe)

Only this. A terribile combo.

Edit: Wrong price too, honestly.

1. The Switch has a gimmick, too. People just tend to like this gimmick a lot better.
2. 'Switch' also is a bad name. I mean, this is what happens if I type 'Switch' on Wikipedia and the first image I get on a Google Image search with 'Switch' is this...
3. What's worse? Buying accessoires to play or not being able to play BC games at all?

I love my Switch and this is a whole different topic. My point was that you said that the Switch doesn't need any third-party games, which is just bullshit. And I asked why the Wii U failed then, because you made the premise that a Nintendo system can succeed solely on its first-party games, which it can't, because in that case the Wii U wouldn't have failed.

 

[Oregano]

Fire emblem is a new game.

Nights of Azure 2, the next Atelier, Fire Emblem Warriors and Nobunaga's Ambition 15 are all brand-new and there's even an exclusive. Koei Tecmo is heavily supporting the Switch.

Koei Tecmo might be publishing the game in Japan but Fire Emblem Warriors is a Nintendo game. That's not really a good point.

 

[LordKano]

Koei Tecmo might be publishing the game in Japan but Fire Emblem Warriors is a Nintendo game. That's not really a good point.

That's still support from Koei Tecmo ? Nintendo is lending the IP and probably funding it but it's still developped entirely by Koei Tecmo.

 

[TheLegendaryN]

Koei Tecmo might be publishing the game in Japan but Fire Emblem Warriors is a Nintendo game. That's not really a good point.

Development houses invest into such titles themselves, too. They take part in the risk; it's not all on the publisher.

 

[Sandfox]

Koei Tecmo might be publishing the game in Japan but Fire Emblem Warriors is a Nintendo game. That's not really a good point.

KT is developing and publishing Fire Emblem Warriors.

 

[Principate]

Koei Tecmo might be publishing the game in Japan but Fire Emblem Warriors is a Nintendo game. That's not really a good point.

They pitched the game to Nintendo. Not the other way around. The only reason this game even exists is because of them. Nintendo is essentially just lending their IP. Maybe some funding of that.

 

[Branduil]

Switch is a very good name, it immediately communicates the main gimmick of the hardware. The Wii U is a nonsense name that not only fails to communicate anything about the console itself, but actively contributed to the confused idea that it was a Wii accessory.

 

[Oregano]

That's still support from Koei Tecmo ? Nintendo is lending the IP and probably funding it but it's still developped entirely by Koei Tecmo.

Development houses invest into such titles themselves, too. They take part in the risk; it's not all on the publisher.

It's a Nintendo IP, funded by Nintendo. Would Koei Tecmo be making an exclusive if it wasn't funded by Nintendo? Would it even be multiplatform for Switch if it wasn't a Nintendo IP?

It's not really third party support because Nintendo is taking all of the risk.

EDIT:

KT is developing and publishing Fire Emblem Warriors.

Publishing in Japan and they're not funding it.

They pitched the game to Nintendo. Not the other way around. The only reason this game even exists is because of them.

Okay and who's paying for it?

That just shows they're willing to ask Nintendo for money, which isn't anything new.

 

[nightever]

KT is developing and publishing Fire Emblem Warriors.

They developed and published an exclusive Warriors game with Nintendo IP on WiiU, too. Sure they give WiiU a lot of support.