Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
I... I need to watch this on Blu-Ray. What a beautiful movie.
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Blade Runner 2049 |OT| Do Androids Dream of Electric Boogaloo? [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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More_Badass
Member
This is a fantastic post. That's the beauty and horror of dystopian and other sci-fi stories. Yes, they can be horrible bleak places. Uncomfortable looks at worlds that might be disgustingly similar to our own with a few tweaks and changes, Peoples exploited and abused, lives devalued, culture and morals ripped to shreds.
But they're not asking to approve and accept these things, but rather showing what we should strive to avoid. By showing us the darkest, cruelest, most depressing and pathetic places humanity could go, these stories beg us, plead with us, to look closely, to not look away, and make sure we never bring such visions to life.
And given these times, people need to be looking very closely indeed.
(I just watched Brazil for the first time a few hours ago, so I got dystopian commentary on my mind)
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Can we talk about Joi for a second?
Maybe this is just my bizarre read on the film, but I found the relationship between K and her adorable.
He seemed fine with her status as a hologram and truly seemed to believe that any efforts towards making her more real were to satisfy her desires, as "real" as those may be perceived.
I don't know, it seems presented that he is just happy with the company, but genuinely cares about what she wants. I fucking loved this because it seemed like a reverse of the usual scifi trope. His constant awareness of her being a product while also not being able to fully suppress an attachment were super interesting.
Maybe this is just my bizarre read on the film, but I found the relationship between K and her adorable.
He seemed fine with her status as a hologram and truly seemed to believe that any efforts towards making her more real were to satisfy her desires, as "real" as those may be perceived.
I don't know, it seems presented that he is just happy with the company, but genuinely cares about what she wants. I fucking loved this because it seemed like a reverse of the usual scifi trope. His constant awareness of her being a product while also not being able to fully suppress an attachment were super interesting.
This, it's called a dystopia for a reason guys.
Trying to make it quick? The rest of the film is very considered, why would DV suddenly decide to get this part over with for the sake of it?
Anyway, the baseline test is great.
When K passes the first time, the entire sequence shows him responding without thinking. The speed and frantic nature of it seems designed to goad out emotional responses, yet here he sales through cooly.
The second time, the frantic nature of it becomes incredibly oppressive as we see K struggle to hide his new found emotional responses.
That kind of faking would take practise, the baseline tests are frequent enough to catch the early development of responses too far from the baseline. Replicants in serrvice wouldn't be able to develop the skill to hide these reponses it in between the frequent tests.
It seems like Wallace was supposed to be a parallel to Tyrell but I'm not sure they pulled it off.
I was just thinking it's weird how despite having less screen time (really just two scenes) I completely bought into Tyrell as a character in the original Bladerunner...this eccentric genius isolated from the world at the top of his giant pyramid. Roy meeting Tyrell is one of my favorite scenes in the film. I can imagine the cold lights in the elevator, "cookies and milk kept you awake, eh Sebastian?" the conversation "...Revel in your time!" the music building up to a hideous intensity after Roy does his thing. The weight of that meeting is heavy with meaning and purpose. It's fucking operatic.
And in comparison, Wallace seems tiny. He just talks and postures like a bond villain and never gets a satisfying conclusion.
I was just thinking it's weird how despite having less screen time (really just two scenes) I completely bought into Tyrell as a character in the original Bladerunner...this eccentric genius isolated from the world at the top of his giant pyramid. Roy meeting Tyrell is one of my favorite scenes in the film. I can imagine the cold lights in the elevator, "cookies and milk kept you awake, eh Sebastian?" the conversation "...Revel in your time!" the music building up to a hideous intensity after Roy does his thing. The weight of that meeting is heavy with meaning and purpose. It's fucking operatic.
And in comparison, Wallace seems tiny. He just talks and postures like a bond villain and never gets a satisfying conclusion.
More_Badass
Member
I read in an article that the book Joi picks up after he goes back to his apartment after the first baseline was Pale Fire, the book that the test prompts are from
Anyone confirm that?
And if so, was that just a little reference/easter egg or does it imply that K had been training himself to respond to the test?
Ether_Snake
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I liked the mental test, really liked the oppressiveness it carried while being in this white clean environment. Really wish the movie had spent more time on K's neutered mind state. Even him going home to a fake girl friend sort of worked with this, like a second layer of control, or a bit of subconscious desperation to make up his oppressed state of mind.
Joe Turkel nailed it, so did the writers, plus he fulfilled his narrative role properly. Blade Runner 1 excelled at making each line of dialogue count in such moments, and also when characters were silent. Like this sadly deleted scene (when he's alone in the elevator) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6deiHpQzi4 after Batty kills Tyrell. The top rated comment nails it. Hauer was perfect, especially in this scene. Says nothing except "Mom?!", yet everything is said.
Some people go by their initials. If anything, it's saying his last name that's weird. He talks about his profession when he's explaining why he isn't lonely.
Gaff's line packs a lot of punch, much more than it did when he actually said it, it's a really good mantra for the movie to sign off on. At least to me it doesn't feel like an auditory flashback meant to explain anything to slower viewers.
Hollyhock Manheim-Mannheim-Guerrero-Robinson-Zilberschlag-Hsung-Fonzerelli-McQuack was right. Jared Leto is the worst part of everything he's in. His acting was distracting. It almost felt like he was mocking whimsical people's speech than being the lofty genius he's supposed to be.
Well, he was, for the longest time aware he was a product too and accepted. She was a perfect example of having a really good Chinese Room. From an outsider perspective, you never know if there's an internal "understanding" happening. Is Joi just spitting out slips of paper in reaction to K's input, as her calling him Joe suggests? Or in a world where products increasingly become self-aware and give themselves agency, her love was genuine?
StrangeRoboMemory
Member
The original is one of my favorite films and I'm very skeptical of remakes and sequels of anything, so this had a long way to go to prove its worth to me. Overall, a really strong film, very intense experience. Liked it best when it did its own thing and didn't call back to the original too much. Would have really preferred a story that wasn't so deeply tied to the first one, but that's not necessarily a flaw, just personal preference. It's simply that the unique tidbits the film gives us are so good that I wanted them to stand on their own. The most interesting part of the film for me was the relationship between K and Joi, very compelling idea - a replicant/hologram love story - and executed with great effect by the actors.
Anyone get Big O vibes from this? The event that wiped out all the records, certain beats about the way that K searches for the truth about his identity...I expected Gosling to reach for a tomato at some point.
Anyone get Big O vibes from this? The event that wiped out all the records, certain beats about the way that K searches for the truth about his identity...I expected Gosling to reach for a tomato at some point.
Atraveller
Banned
I agree that Wallace was a weak link in the movie, but how well can one get out of the lines that were basically god complex manifests?
One of my favourite movies of all time. Here's a piece I wrote a few years back that might be enjoyable.
Burt had a great post on Joi a few pages back.
Another one from reddit on how each character regards love.
MotionBlue
Member
Finally got the night off and went to see it. Theatre was moderately busy. The movie ended, and not a single person moved. I haven't seen catharsis/intensity from a theatre crowd like that since LOTR.
I can't believe how good it is. Confidently I can say its better than the first in most ways. I just. I can't even put into words how the movie made me feel. It deserves awards.
Edit:
The K-Joi relationship was saddening. A "fake" lover/wife for a "fake" person. What a cruel fucking world that is.
Wallace came off more fanatical weirdo than Tyrell-genius.
I can't believe how good it is. Confidently I can say its better than the first in most ways. I just. I can't even put into words how the movie made me feel. It deserves awards.
Edit:
The K-Joi relationship was saddening. A "fake" lover/wife for a "fake" person. What a cruel fucking world that is.
Wallace came off more fanatical weirdo than Tyrell-genius.
Kurt Angle
Member
theme question, when the sewer lady says something along the lines of, you thought you were the child? we all want to the child, that's why we believe, we all want to be real. but dying for a good cause is the closest thing to being real/human.
so sacrificing himself to have harrison ford meet his daughter was his "cause," that's all he had to feel human and real. Even the fake love he had was gone, it was his self-redemption
right?
so sacrificing himself to have harrison ford meet his daughter was his "cause," that's all he had to feel human and real. Even the fake love he had was gone, it was his self-redemption
right?
Just got out of the theater, freaking amazed at the film. Aesthetically, it's perfect. 3D was made for this movie. It felt like a double feature, there was so much inside!
One question, though. Where do they ever mention "the one"? People keep referring to that phrase, but I never got the feeling that there was any 'one', just a bunch of new replicants with some/many/all featuring implanted memories.
One question, though. Where do they ever mention "the one"? People keep referring to that phrase, but I never got the feeling that there was any 'one', just a bunch of new replicants with some/many/all featuring implanted memories.
When they discover that the box of bones was from a replicant that gave birth. The plot was about finding the baby. The baby is "the one."
Ah. I knew they were referring to the replicant child in the movie (and what a switcheroo!) but the way people referred to 'the one' in comments here made me think there was some prophecy I missed.
CreepingFear
Member
Just got back. Better than the original. I am grateful that this was made. That music. Bring synth back!
I saw this movie without knowing anything about the universe or seeing the prior movie. I feel like there were a lot of times in the movie when I was kind of confused.
One lingering question I had was, when K goes to Stelline and asks if his memory is real, why does she start crying? And why did he conclude she was the only one who could have implanted that memory into him? (or was it only because she's the best, and no one else could've made one so good or something)
One lingering question I had was, when K goes to Stelline and asks if his memory is real, why does she start crying? And why did he conclude she was the only one who could have implanted that memory into him? (or was it only because she's the best, and no one else could've made one so good or something)
More_Badass
Member
1) She's crying because she realizes whose memory it was
2) It's because she uses her own memories, or parts of them, to create the best memories for replicants.
Nappuccino
Member
It was her memory.
She's crying because it's her memory. That's how she knows it's real. K puts it together when he finds out he's not Deckard's child.
Also: Watch Blade Runner.
So was she in on the plot to muddle the waters on who the replicant child was, she intentionally put her own memory into K with the intention of throwing others like Luv off her track? And she went through the orphanage and everything? For some reason, I never picked up on the fact she might've known everything that was going on, I just thought she also didn't know.
Haha, on my list. Meant to watch it before but made an impulsive decision to go to the movies.
Sparrowhawk
Member
Finally saw it today and was worried it would feel long and drawn out but I honestly enjoyed every minute of it. I wish we'd get more background on Wallace, honestly.
More_Badass
Member
No, she's not involved at all. She just makes memories, and the reason she's the best is because she uses actual memories.
Many replicants have that memory, not just K
She's no secret. It's probably like looking up the lead writer or the level designer of a video game company.
Sectorseven
Member
Why didn't they just shoot K at the hotel?
I imagine Tom Hardy would make them 2049x better.
She's a well-known subcontractor to Wallace Industries. Only her past is a secret.
balgajo
Member
Second test scene is one of my favorites.
That I understand, but how did K specifically know who works for Wallace (and I imagine a subcontractor would even more difficult to find)? Just seemed like a bit of a plot hole to me, which could have been patched with just a tad more exposition. *Loved* the movie but when this scene started, I just kind of went "what, how did he end up here?"
More_Badass
Member
He works for the LAPD
It's referenced as being an 'upgrade shop' and Stelline is noted for being one of the best. It makes sense for him to go there if he has an extremely vivid memory that he wants examined.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Why didn't who shoot K when?
That sounds like an extraordinarily bad idea if these leads work on video games with a known history of running away and seeking revenge on their developers.
Sectorseven
Member
They bomb the room and just sort of ignore his body. They know he's a replicant, they should make sure he's dead. Or that one guy who sneaks up behind K like he's going to make him surrender. Just shoot him.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I don't think she's the best because she uses her actual memories. I think it's somewhat implied because she was put into seclusion at such a young age, she's developed a deep imagination and attention to detail to replace the actual sights and sounds she can't see with her own eyes anymore. I think it's also unclear whether that memory was implanted into more than just K, although it would be silly if each replicant required their own unique memory, so it probably was
I think you're confusing Tyrell and Wallace. The only reason Wallace was able to start replicant manufacturing again was because his replicants were said to be 100% compliant. I don't think it's even public knowledge that the blackout was caused by rogue replicants.
I'm just gonna be that person and ask you all this: Is Deckard just chill with a dying android outside of his long lost daughter's place? I mean Deckard seemed to care about Joe/K somewhat. It's gonna awkward as hell when he comes back out and sees Joe dead on the stairs lol.
I really expected a twist where wallace was a cloned Tyrell, especially because of his eyes. At least thats where my mind went evertime I saw him on screen.
I think K hid the severity of his injuries.
BigGreenMat
Member
Because he is just a replicant detective to her, but also somewhat a kin. She sees some of herself in him and has been following and helping him. I think she feels some bit of protectiveness, like a dog maybe.
He's just taking a rest until the next stanza. C# Major Augmented? There's gotta be a music theory joke in here somewhere. He reclined on a musical staff.
Atraveller
Banned
I want to know what did you guys think of K's "you don't have to say that"?
Wallace certainly should know better. Even in the most controlled environment, his replicants need to be tested daily and it only takes one runaway for the whole thing to go to shit.
And then there are all the older models who might one day decide to complicate the manufacturing process.
Heckler456
Banned
Allow me to cut right to the chase here: Are you trying to say that they shouldn't have depicted Joi they way that they did? Should they have depicted her as an "independent" woman, or someone with agency?
I mean, he presumably bought her at some point, right? I think he's at least partially aware of the nature of their relationship, and perhaps her choice in the matter. I think it's just pointing to that.
Secret Fawful
Member
The original is one of my favorite films and I'm very skeptical of remakes and sequels of anything, so this had a long way to go to prove its worth to me. Overall, a really strong film, very intense experience. Liked it best when it did its own thing and didn't call back to the original too much. Would have really preferred a story that wasn't so deeply tied to the first one, but that's not necessarily a flaw, just personal preference. It's simply that the unique tidbits the film gives us are so good that I wanted them to stand on their own. The most interesting part of the film for me was the relationship between K and Joi, very compelling idea - a replicant/hologram love story - and executed with great effect by the actors.
Anyone get Big O vibes from this? The event that wiped out all the records, certain beats about the way that K searches for the truth about his identity...I expected Gosling to reach for a tomato at some point.
Yooo I made the EXACT SAME connection. I kept waiting for the Big O soundtrack to kick in at points. Bebop moreso, though.
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