TheLostBigBoss
Banned
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The state of NeoGAF
- Thread starter EviLore
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It's already there, too. This site went from great to Gamefaqs in a matter of hours.
Exactly and he didn't, which made mods feel let down. A similar thing happened now. This is not a black or white situation I would agree with that. But is rather serious if you ask me. True or not, folks who have been around here for more than 15 years are leaving because of this. That is sad to watch.
Why, so he can get banned for having an opinion?
He's better off blaming Trump, GamerGate or some other phantom that doesn't exist around here.
If you'd quoted my very next sentence, you'd have your answer.
You seem to think that she wanted this big impact and reaction and deliberately withheld info for maximum effect. No. She posted a #metoo for her fb friends, and she didn't initially name names. It's other people that screenshot it and ran with it.
Countless women have posted #metoo, not for individual attention, but for solidarity and awareness. I bet there's women who are even married to their #metoo offender. Doesn't change how she felt in that moment.
It was in a Waypoint post/article. https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...ct-allegations-rocking-neogafs-last-48-hoursd
Who is talking about court? It was a #metoo. Her feelings and his jackass behavior followed by his jackass response are what's relevant. Fuck.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Its a message board with fake names, not some morning news station with your face and real name plastered everywhere.
Patrick S.
Banned
I kind of want to apply for a position as a mod, but I'm not sure if I would be up to the standard... Does anyone know if there is some kind of written guide mods have access to? I only ever was a mod in one of the largest Spanish IRC channels, and that is already... my God... almost twenty years in the past.
He would you call it if I suddenly and uninvited joined your shower?
TumblingHippo
Member
This site now feels like an Onion article: "Gamer looks forward to playing new gaming system designed to work while head is stuck underground!"
Look forward to your PewDiePie Community page and discussions on why Wolfenstein TNC goes too far politically.
Look forward to your PewDiePie Community page and discussions on why Wolfenstein TNC goes too far politically.
So hm, I honestly don't know where I stand right now. Maybe the reactions to my post will answer my questions. If I turn grey, well...bye.
Do I think that grabbing a woman's butt in a club or a failed attempt of "naked man" is a big deal? Not cool, but there are way bigger isues in this world. It just one thing that never should've happened to you, Evilore, for obvious reasons. You can't say "drinking is bad" in front of your kids while sucking on a bottle of gin and that's all there is to say.
(Oh, since no clear evidence this isn't a direct accusation).
Tyler, you have to realize that most of the people jumping on you now are the ones you've tried to protect with the censorship on this site. It's plain and simple: the experiment has failed in some parts- the utopia has turned into some kind of distopia. Not since friday btw. Echochamber is the word I keep hearing when others talk about NeoGaf.
I will use an annecdote -not to defend myself in context to what is happening to you right now- but to adress one of Gaf's biggest problems:
2 years ago at E3 there was a tree-house thread with pretty heavy traffic as usual with these kind of threads.
One of the female Treehouse presenters in the stream had a very big pair of breasts in a very tight shirt. And surprise, surprise what do you guys think happened next? What happens when you wave a steak in front of your doggo? Yeah right, animalistic instincts kick in and some male gaffers couldn't help themselves but comment on what was on display there. I chuckled, left a harmless, stupid comment myself. No harm was done.
Of course, there are parts of Gaf thinking that following your instinct is an act of babarism...no further comment. It is what it is.
A few minutes later a new thread appears "pervs in the treehouse thread". I immediately stepped into this thread to confront the catholic school boys and girls with the fact that whatever happened in the treehouse thread was not an act of perversion. Bottom line: I don't give a fuck about who was wrong or right. I got banned, of course, because I was trying to provoke the users in the reaction thread for the immature way they were dealing with this shit. My choice of words was off for Gaf-readers as the mod decided. I accepted my ban and moved on. BUT In hindsight I think the OT should've been banned, too, for comming up with such a stupid and toxic thread. Not to give justice to me, but to save your own rules from going down the drain.
Why am I writing this now: because the double standards are what hurt this site and all of our modern culture most. You can't come up with a set of rules + values and just hope for the best. History has shown many times how easily "good" values are corrupted in an instant, because no one factors in what it means to be human. Big parts of the community on Gaf have a very exaggerated and distorted ideal of mankind. Yes Tyler, you've been a very bad boy for touching a woman's butt unasked. Instead of attacking people on the inet with our keyboards, maybe we should assemble some sort of Swat-force which pays regular visits to our local clubs, so we can call out all those filthy ass-grabbing pigs directly and bring those innocent girls back to their parents.
Isn't it ironic that only a week ago I would've been banned in 10 sec just for asking "why is a girl who's in a relationship hanging out with another man in a hotel room getting drunk?"
Whatever, life goes on. I enjoyed my time here and I hope you guys can sort this shit out with a fresh start.
Do I think that grabbing a woman's butt in a club or a failed attempt of "naked man" is a big deal? Not cool, but there are way bigger isues in this world. It just one thing that never should've happened to you, Evilore, for obvious reasons. You can't say "drinking is bad" in front of your kids while sucking on a bottle of gin and that's all there is to say.
(Oh, since no clear evidence this isn't a direct accusation).
Tyler, you have to realize that most of the people jumping on you now are the ones you've tried to protect with the censorship on this site. It's plain and simple: the experiment has failed in some parts- the utopia has turned into some kind of distopia. Not since friday btw. Echochamber is the word I keep hearing when others talk about NeoGaf.
I will use an annecdote -not to defend myself in context to what is happening to you right now- but to adress one of Gaf's biggest problems:
2 years ago at E3 there was a tree-house thread with pretty heavy traffic as usual with these kind of threads.
One of the female Treehouse presenters in the stream had a very big pair of breasts in a very tight shirt. And surprise, surprise what do you guys think happened next? What happens when you wave a steak in front of your doggo? Yeah right, animalistic instincts kick in and some male gaffers couldn't help themselves but comment on what was on display there. I chuckled, left a harmless, stupid comment myself. No harm was done.
Of course, there are parts of Gaf thinking that following your instinct is an act of babarism...no further comment. It is what it is.
A few minutes later a new thread appears "pervs in the treehouse thread". I immediately stepped into this thread to confront the catholic school boys and girls with the fact that whatever happened in the treehouse thread was not an act of perversion. Bottom line: I don't give a fuck about who was wrong or right. I got banned, of course, because I was trying to provoke the users in the reaction thread for the immature way they were dealing with this shit. My choice of words was off for Gaf-readers as the mod decided. I accepted my ban and moved on. BUT In hindsight I think the OT should've been banned, too, for comming up with such a stupid and toxic thread. Not to give justice to me, but to save your own rules from going down the drain.
Why am I writing this now: because the double standards are what hurt this site and all of our modern culture most. You can't come up with a set of rules + values and just hope for the best. History has shown many times how easily "good" values are corrupted in an instant, because no one factors in what it means to be human. Big parts of the community on Gaf have a very exaggerated and distorted ideal of mankind. Yes Tyler, you've been a very bad boy for touching a woman's butt unasked. Instead of attacking people on the inet with our keyboards, maybe we should assemble some sort of Swat-force which pays regular visits to our local clubs, so we can call out all those filthy ass-grabbing pigs directly and bring those innocent girls back to their parents.
Isn't it ironic that only a week ago I would've been banned in 10 sec just for asking "why is a girl who's in a relationship hanging out with another man in a hotel room getting drunk?"
Whatever, life goes on. I enjoyed my time here and I hope you guys can sort this shit out with a fresh start.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Exactly. GAF, on gaming side of off topic seems to have a hard time of meeting people in the middle these days. In gaming, all of those Switch threads where if you dare say anything negative in a positive Switch thread you're either salty or a console warrior.
In off topic, all of those threads where if you dare say anything even remotely suggesting a minutr right wing stance, you're a gamer gate sympathiser or a horrible person. It's just silly. Real, balanced discussion hasn't been a thing on GAF for some time now.
I'll say this for sure, there is definitely a double standard when you can have a thread about someone accusing a Naughty Dog employee of something but you can't have one about the founder of Neogaf. I posted above how I don't like mob culture but at the same time, freedom of speech is freedom of speech. It's not okay that the threads were closing.
PhantomThief
Banned
And later called her mentally unstable
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Well yea, there were always people who simply didn't speak out because they knew their garbage wouldn't be tolerated, which is fine by me, if you want to bitch about gamergate or how youtube personalities are unfairly criticized for saying nigger, go to r/kotakuinaction or what ever shit hole banned GAF members go when thrown out the window.
Ragnarsson
Member
I will keep it civil, like I always tried to do since I became a member. This forum no longer makes sense to me. It's not just about the allegations, though they are undoubtedly highly relevant and should be taken very seriously - a forum which prides itself in defending progressive ideals and doesn't take the allegations in a serious manner is hipocritical and should reevaluate its priorities and values. It's about a pattern on dealing with this kind of drama - a few months ago, the whole Amirox ordeal, now this. In both instances, the administration failed to tackle the drama in a transparent and adequate manner. Closing threads, banning inquisitive voices, shutting the forum down... those aren't answers. They're pretty much gag orders. I didn't even realize the whole extent of the Amirox case, because I wasn't around much during those weeks. I only knew that Amirox was arrested for child pornography, and that he had been a moderator a few years before. Only now have I learned about the famous 2012 Spain posts. A forum that openly criticized echo chambers is rapidly and dangerously delving into one, and I don't want to be a part of that. I was really enjoying talking about The Last Night with people who had disagreeing views on the issue. I shouldn't be afraid that those people are banned just because of a faux-pas or a moment of fleeting rage, while people with similar views to mine but who also commit the same kinds of rhetorical mistakes in the heat of the moment are usually unpunished.
A forum is not its administrator, but an administrator is an important part of a forum. Clearly, prized members of the community have left. There is a lack of confidence in the admin. He should step down, and let the whole thing be dealt with in a more serious manner.
I don't engage much with users outside the forum - I don't even know what a Discord is, though I would love to know more about it and talk to people I miss from over here. I will be moving to where the community is - hopefully something like ResetEra, if I manage to get an invitation. It's clearly not this forum.
A forum is not its administrator, but an administrator is an important part of a forum. Clearly, prized members of the community have left. There is a lack of confidence in the admin. He should step down, and let the whole thing be dealt with in a more serious manner.
I don't engage much with users outside the forum - I don't even know what a Discord is, though I would love to know more about it and talk to people I miss from over here. I will be moving to where the community is - hopefully something like ResetEra, if I manage to get an invitation. It's clearly not this forum.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
I've always voiced my own opinion and have never been banned for it. I got into arguments with many regulars and mods even, but because my position was backed by explanations and sources, I was never banned.
Communicate intelligently. Don't be a coward. Post what you feel.
This is my exact problem. What the fuck happened to people being people? Human beings are inherently complicated and can have more than one opinion.
MangoMoustache
Member
An unwanted sexual advance, when the victim was particularly vulnerable due to being sick and vomiting isn't serious? What if this was your mother? Your sister? Your friend?
Would you tell them their traumatic experience wasn't serious?
If you really want to break things down, the victim had a boyfriend and made no indication of interest towards Malka. Malka then, without warning, exposes himself to the victim while they were in a vulnerable state.
Did he try to force her into a "physical act," no. Did he indecently expose himself in an attempt to start a "physical act" that the victim did not consent to, yes.
Women have to put up with this at every turn. The reason they don't talk about it is because it's downplayed the second it's brought up.
Your statement is a literal textbook example for why #metoo started trending.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
This post should have just been called: Boys will be Boys
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
This too.
This entire incident is so benign compared to the sexual assault cases in the news that he could have said,
"The incident she accounted was mainly accurate, I was rejected after making a drunk move at a horrible time and while she was in a relationship, I didn't push it further when she said no".
Wow, so hard to just admit that your nice guy facade failed that you had to smear her and say she was mentally unstable!
I don't think there are any victors in this situation. Everyone loses. Like I've been saying, there's not going to be an old NeoGAF. And likely there won't be an heir to NeoGAF either. At least in the way that everyone's thinking. At best we'll get a bunch of different communities that have overlapping members but likely nothing as big. And that's really the sad part about all of this. Regardless of what any of us do, we're still all being broken apart in the end.
Here you go:
I guess "important" threads is pretty vague...but yeah, I, too, had several interesting threads bookmarked.
Good. I'll keep a lookout then.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Never has there been a more appropriate thread for the good 'ol "shooting yourself in the foot" meme.
People want to escalate and be loud on the internet. A lot of the departed being the most problematic in that regard.
He allegedly made an uncalled advance and she declined. He then left her in the shower.
Not rape , not sexual assault. At most harassment, though it wasn't repeated.
I think people forget what a little bit of alcohol and feelings can make people do. Evilore would have been wiser to just admit it and express profound regret. Unless it really has no basis in truth.
Alas the accused is MIA.
Still: Evilore bring back OT ASAP, and make the forum normal again. Best course of action imo. Ban people for bringing it up outside of designated threads. It's just come across as Orwellian to remove OT though. Just appointment new mods, with similiar high standards. Proceed as prior. Maybe learn the lesson of allowing witch hunts on your forums on the basis of allegations
TarpitCarnivore
Member
What in the actual hell?
You dont have to act on your instincts. Keep shit to yourself
Just because the situation didnt end up in rape doesnt make it any less traumatic for the person involved.
digoutyoursoul
Member
The shills need to go otherwise nothing has changed. I'm also getting tired of the PlayStation hive mind around here, hey I'm even a fan and it's embarrassing some of the shit that is given a free pass on here compared to fans who play on other platforms. It's not right and it's disingenuous. The dog piling is embarrassing too, to anyone who speaks out on this shit. It's there for all to see. Sort it out otherwise it's just business as usual.
-Mutsukki-
Member
Woah that's really really bad and her response to it was exactly what I thought (which, if anything, shows she's pretty sensible). While he didn't do anything physical this whole situation and his comments stink even worse than just this thread, holy crap. Even if I'm glad the mod culture and people with snarky hot takes are probably gone, I don't think I wanna support this if it's true.
Yeah gonna go take a step back, thanks for the link.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
He allegedly made an uncalled advance and she declined. He then left her in the shower.
Not rape , not sexual assault. At most harassment, though it wasn't repeated.
I think people forget what a little bit of alcohol and feelings can make people do.
Alas the accused is MIA.
Still: Evilore bring back OT ASAP, and make the forum normal again. Best course of action imo. Ban people for bringing it up outside of designated threads. It's just come across as Orwellian to remove OT though. Just appointment new mods, with similiar high standards. Proceed as prior. Maybe learn the lesson of allowing witch hunts on your forums on the basis of allegations
Oh right the good ole alcohol excuse. I forgot when you get drunk all rules are off amirite?
PanicFreak
Member
So no more OT? Welp, see ya photoGAF and NFLGAF. It was fun while it lasted.
How do you know she made no indication of interest? Were you there?
Why is everyone taking her statement as fact? Is it out of the realms of reality that she is a bitter ex girlfriend trying to get "revenge"?
Believe it or not but that shit happens too you know.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Hell yes, they do have an obligation to respect you, and to respect that there are two sides to every story and that this could have happened to anyone.
nature boy
Member
Agreed, but I don't think the mods could've kept the forum under control, especially if most of them were quitting. Wasn't here when it happened, but it seemed it got out of control. Should've made it read-only, let people cool down a bit, reopen and let people commit account suicide if they wanted no part.
Administration clearly didn't have the community's best interests at hand, IMO. And yes, it's not the first time either.
Revenge as in that time Evilore posted revenge porn with name details on an ex-gf?
i think the idea is to get identity politics out of the way, not broad "political discussion". i'm not sure how that would be meted out exactly, but i think the crux of the matter is every other thread has become a minefield/graveyard and it's a little stressful for a ... gaming forum, of all things
i know it's kind of blithe "but it's all about the games!" but there's just so many other places to go to hash out ideology
Elfotografoalocado
Banned
I love how people gloss over this. His taking a fit and nuking threads and accounts left and right while smearing the victim is what proved he's a manchild who didn't learn after hurting that person and who knows how many others.
Officerrob
Banned
OT will be back, the vast majority of NFLGAF will not be. No idea about photoGAF
psychowave
Member
Is there anywhere I can read about this?
Subpar Scrub
Banned
Intoxication isn't a valid legal or moral defense if becoming stupified is self-induced.
Serpens007
Member
Well, I'm glad GAF is back. I mean, all of this is just sad, I hope it gets clarified and truth prevails, whatever it is. I think GAF is more than just one person, but of course it tackles us all.
In any case, I think all of this could have been handled better, to say the least. Just like JonTron's scandals.
Stay strong GAF users.
In any case, I think all of this could have been handled better, to say the least. Just like JonTron's scandals.
Stay strong GAF users.
PhantomThief
Banned
Exactly. If he said exactly that it would be good enough for me.
Saying she js mentally unstable is like a weird admission of guilt to me.
Google: "evilore opa age"
beato_angelico
Member
I agree with most of the post though I would say that if this place is going to survive there have to be much more proactive words and action from Evilore, not just better/more balanced moderation. There has to be some serious soul-searching.
You can't eliminate political and social discussion now, after the place became so famous/notorious for its political leanings. It just came off as weak and muddy at best. Politics would just spill over to every other topic just in a much more toxic way.
You can't say that moderation became too difficult because Trump. Things started way back and Evilore has direct responsibilities. If he want this place to be something more than a sad remnant he needs to listen carefully to us who have not fled yet (the zealots aren't coming back, the "general public" will stay the hell away from this at least now)
No. But it is a factor.
You are comparing rape to an alleged case of sexual harrasment by someone who actually had a sexual relationship with her AFTER the incident happened.
For her this was clearly less traumatic than rape.
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