You guys are forgetting ddr4....
That is what rumor to be in the x720.
If they can do it for 2GB (if they are doing it at all) then why can't they do that for 4GB GDDR5? If Asus can fit 32 chips on its special MARS line of GPU I am sure Sony will find a way to do the same on a motherboard at least 1.5-2 times larger.
It definitely won't be the full OS, there's absolutely no need for that and with that kind of overhead the system would be DOA. It's way too early to claim that it will be pretty close to it, too, although it will almost certainly be based on the same kernel.
It would be a framebuffer just like on a graphics card. And in that case you wouldn't need eDRAM. Based on what we know those first two he listed are the most logical choices (other than it being DDR4 instead of DDR3).
well the documents show the Xbox 720 as having parts 8X more powerful than the Xbox 360 but show it as only being 4 - 6X more powerful for games does that sound like a small amount of overhead?
8X from those specs was so generous. 4x game performance from 6x the raw power seems optimistic based on latest insider info.
well the documents show the Xbox 720 as having parts 8X more powerful than the Xbox 360 but show it as only being 4 - 6X more powerful for games does that sound like a small amount of overhead?
8X from those specs was so generous. 4x game performance from 6x the raw power seems optimistic based on latest insider info.
Holy Crap.
Orbis / PS4 is going to be BEAST.
Patience.
I think it's time to go looking for him.
I think he was asking why he included 2GB of GDDR5 when he had 4GB of GDDR5 on the list.
Pitchforks, bro, pitchforks.
Gemüsepizza;39348324 said:He talks about Xbox 3 here, not PS4. ^^
Gemüsepizza;39348324 said:He talks about Xbox 3 here, not PS4. ^^
If they are going Jaguar it won't be 3.2 Ghz.
It would be a framebuffer just like on a graphics card. And in that case you wouldn't need eDRAM. Based on what we know those first two he listed are the most logical choices (other than it being DDR4 instead of DDR3).
i'm saying if you're asking what's best there's no point in listing 4gb of gddr5 and 2gb of gddr5, 4gb of gddr5 in the same configuration (as seems to be implied) is clearly going to be superior barring unmentioned technical limitations.
You change your mind more than a woman. One minute Xbox 3 is a beast, next it's trash.
Anyways I see "latest info" as indicating at least 8X. For example, even only a 1TF GPU, 4X flops as Xenos, probably is 8X due to greater efficiency of modern GPU's. That's not counting the rest of the system.
We also have people trashing the docs as irrelevant/old/obviously wrong in replies to me when it fits their agenda aka no DDR4 etc, so...which is it? Besides, the docs dont say anything like that IIRC. One section says 4-6x games and another part says ~8x perf target 360, another part says 6x, with no explanation made.
The docs as written dont make any sense anyway technically. Maybe the performance targets are still valid despite the rubbish tech specs in the Doc, maybe not.
Do you guys think 1.5TFlops of power is enough to produce "true" next gen graphics?
Then what are we all complaining about?
Then what are we all complaining about?
Power. People want more power regardless of how much power it may be. That, and fanboys. You can never lose their grip, I suppose.
Anyways, next-gen games will look very spectacular.
Then what are we all complaining about?
Then what are we all complaining about?
Do you guys think 1.5TFlops of power is enough to produce "true" next gen graphics?
Then what are we all complaining about?
people just like to complain.
before all this new info was released people here was expecting a Wii like jump in power because of some rumors about PS4 & Xbox Next going low spec with motion controls packed in at a low price like the Wii. & they was calling anyone who talked about 2GB or more crazy & telling us all the reasons why it wasn't possible to get more than 2GB in a console & so on.
{fast forward}
new leaks of PS4 & Xbox Next specs come out bigger jumps than the old rumors but nothing mind blowing, but it was what people was starting to expect because of the old rumors.
{fast forward some more}
the leaks of powerful Next Gen consoles come out & now it's a fight to see which console is the most powerful & it's just back & forth & 1.5TFOPS is only good enough if the other console has 1.4TFOPS & 2GB isn't good enough against 4GB, what's that you say? it's 8GB? OMG PS4 is dead! dead I tell ya!
{next day}
"Microsoft did what? .... they ordered some DDR3 ram from Newegg? what the hell is MS up to?"
(week or so later} Jeff unloads the Xbox 720 documents people see that games are only going to be 4 - 6X the specs of Xbox 360 games & even though they haven't seen what games look like 6X the Xbox 360 they feel it's not good enough because the PS4 leaks said 10X the PS3 even with the 2GB of ram.
& there is other rumors that say Xbox 720 is more powerful so it's just a bunch of back & forth & no matter how powerful these consoles are if the other console is better in some kind of way that means it's not good enough.
that's pretty much what we are dealing with here.
Do you guys think 1.5TFlops of power is enough to produce "true" next gen graphics?
Also, is DDR4 even in production?
What are the timelines and productions values in comparison to other.. *cough* memory types?
It's starting production at the end of this year at the breathtaking speed of...DDR3-2133.
Oh wow, not even worth it. Prices will still be expensive but with practically no improvement this early in the stage...
Good summary but I think we are all, at the same time assuming too much from and missing what the Xbox 720 documents were being used to sell to non-technical types. In order:people just like to complain.
before all this new info was released people here was expecting a Wii like jump in power because of some rumors about PS4 & Xbox Next going low spec with motion controls packed in at a low price like the Wii. & they was calling anyone who talked about 2GB or more crazy & telling us all the reasons why it wasn't possible to get more than 2GB in a console & so on.
{fast forward}
new leaks of PS4 & Xbox Next specs come out bigger jumps than the old rumors but nothing mind blowing, but it was what people was starting to expect because of the old rumors.
{fast forward some more}
the leaks of powerful Next Gen consoles come out & now it's a fight to see which console is the most powerful & it's just back & forth & 1.5TFOPS is only good enough if the other console has 1.4TFOPS & 2GB isn't good enough against 4GB, what's that you say? it's 8GB? OMG PS4 is dead! dead I tell ya!
{next day}
"Microsoft did what? .... they ordered some DDR3 ram from Newegg? what the hell is MS up to?"
(week or so later} Jeff unloads the Xbox 720 documents people see that games are only going to be 4 - 6X the specs of Xbox 360 games & even though they haven't seen what games look like 6X the Xbox 360 they feel it's not good enough because the PS4 leaks said 10X the PS3 even with the 2GB of ram.
& there is other rumors that say Xbox 720 is more powerful so it's just a bunch of back & forth & no matter how powerful these consoles are if the other console is better in some kind of way that means it's not good enough.
that's pretty much what we are dealing with here.
And thats' why I look for more than one source. Ask Raistlin, the Xbox 361 SOC is going to be used in multiple Microsoft projects and they appear to be more aggressive in finding new markets. Comcast cable company for instance is source for Xbox project 10 and Xbox Infinity (Xfinity) rumors.I think he's trying to point out that you never considered that the source was fraudulent. If someone blows a huge thing like "MS announcing a new SKU at CES / E3 to launch fall 2012" you would think they would lose credibility, not that people would re-interpret their posts to fit into an established narrative.
And thats' why I look for more than one source. Ask Raistlin, the Xbox 361 SOC is going to be used in multiple Microsoft projects and they appear to be more aggressive in finding new markets. Comcast cable company for instance is source for Xbox project 10 and Xbox Infinity (Xfinity) rumors.
The Xbox 365 (Xbox361 XTV with HDMI pass-thru) and PS3.5 (XTV with HDMI pass-thru) are HUGE for both Sony and Microsoft. Both are going to have Kinect interface, both are going to support voice and gesture recognition, both are going to support HTML5 apps with browser desktop, both are going to support Skype.
Both are going to use Playready DRM, both are going to have a secure trustzone. Both are going to support Augmented Reality, both are going to support an ecosystem by serving and interfacing with Handhelds, both might re-serve media with DRM outside the home and for sure inside the home as at least Sony has DTCP-IP since just after Firmware 3.00 but planned before the release of firmware 3.0.
8X from those specs was so generous. 4x game performance from 6x the raw power seems optimistic based on latest insider info.
Straight up- which is more powerful as of now - Orbis or Durango? ...And - by how much?
Then what are we all complaining about?
Xbox 361 and PS3.5 @ $199 including Kinect and PS4 and Xbox 720 at $ 399 or more. Only AAA Gamers will buy the more expensive more powerful next generation but nearly everyone can use the PS3.5 and Xbox 361. They will have a much longer than 1 year life and act as a bridge for many to migrate up to PS4.DRM, probably no MKV support, Cinavia, nearly no content in Europe, ...
Don't see how that will be such a big hit compared to Apple products, Google Q and other existing solutions. So I don't see how MS/Sony will invest so much time, effort and money for a product with a 1 year life cycle.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1653503&postcount=31 said:No clue still whether a shrink or integration of Cell/RSX is due but at least two hints in firmware v4.20 that a new console design is imminent:
[Eject Disc] has been renamed [Remove Disc]. This points at a top loader (like PS2 Slim) as opposed to the current slot loader of PS3 fat and slim.
[Hard Disk] has been renamed [System Storage] — a strong suggestion that (some versions of) the next PS3 will use solid state storage instead of an HDD
http://bit.ly/NHxOZE
lol wow. hopefully sarcasm?2GB memory is just not enough! If Sony does this, they are screwed. This will be the end of PlayStation brand! Dreamcast all over again!
lol wow. hopefully sarcasm?
All this stuff is interesting but I don't believe the Xbox361/PS3.5 thing. I don't know why - I just don't believe it.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1653503&postcount=31 said:No clue still whether a shrink or integration of Cell/RSX is due but at least two hints in firmware v4.20 that a new console design is imminent:
[Eject Disc] has been renamed [Remove Disc]. This points at a top loader (like PS2 Slim) as opposed to the current slot loader of PS3 fat and slim.
[Hard Disk] has been renamed [System Storage] — a strong suggestion that (some versions of) the next PS3 will use solid state storage instead of an HDD
http://bit.ly/NHxOZE
PS3 System Software update version 4.20 contains at least two hints that a new form factor PlayStation 3 console is imminent, and seems to confirm two spec points we’ve forecast earlier (here and here, respectively). Both are elements in the XMB Cross Media Bar:
[Eject Disc] has been renamed [Remove Disc]. This points at a top loader (like PS2 Slim) as opposed to the current slot loader of PS3 fat and slim (or a tray loader like the original PS2 for that matter).
[Hard Disk] has been renamed [System Storage] — a clear indication (some versions of) the next PS3 will use solid state storage instead of a hard disk drive; an SSD in place of a HDD if you will.
We’re betting on GamesCon 2012 as the venue where the new design will surface. Please post here if you’ve spotted any other clues.
but if a 20GB or 40GB model is going to be in the range that could actually help further reduce the entry-level price for the console, beyond what Cell/RSX shrink and integration and other cost savings will achieve. To be fully cost-effective, that may not be in the form of a full-fledged SSD drive with encasing, SATA interface etc. but instead be a peak-optimized custom PCB with flash memory on it, or even more likely a part of a new, smaller motherboard.
Such a unit could be cheaper, smaller, consuming less power, be fanless and thus even quieter (the absence of a spinning hard disk would already make a difference). But it would be the bottom of the range. At the top of the new range we’ll probably see increased capacity with a 400, 500 or 640 GB Hard Disk Drive.
From BY3D and very good find:
two hints in firmware v4.20 that a new console design is imminent: Not in it'self proof but add it to my speculation.
Straight up- which is more powerful as of now - Orbis or Durango? ...And - by how much?
All this stuff is interesting but I don't believe the Xbox361/PS3.5 thing. I don't know why - I just don't believe it.
Yeah. I find that a lot easier to buy than a complete reworking from Microsoft on the 360, which is also rumored.I can believe Sony are working on a super slim PS3 with small ssd. No problems there.
How can anyone answer this when we don't know anything concrete about either console?