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[D-e-f-]

Games like Zombi U and Pikmin seem to prove my point.

No, sorry. They don't prove anything. Both a launch titles for a new platform and based on prototypes conceived for older systems that have been reworked for a year or two on unfinished hardware. Also none of them have cinematic qualities due to their design.

You wanna compare those to a title that's showing off a brand new engine (and running on a high-end PC, not on the platform it's announced for) scalable from current gen stuff to next gen tech with a big focus on cinematic-feel.

You're just being negative is all.

 

[ColdBlooder]

Well, you said "next-gen jump", not Nintendo's own generational jump.

Otherwise, this generation's jump was pretty tiny too in your philosophy, regarding Gamecube -> Wii.

Wii was an overclocked gamecube with 3x the ram. Nothing more. The chips were the same than in the gamecube, They just made a die shrink...

Wii -> current gen, Wii U -> next gen

Generation has absolutely nothing to do with power

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Well, you said "next-gen jump", not Nintendo's own generational jump.

It's always amazing to see how many people on GAF don't understand how console generations work.

 

[Shion]

Your point being that you're obtuse? A 3rd launch title that was basically completely revamped between one E3 and the next and a game that was aimed at the Wii throughout most of its development cycle. Brilliant examples to extrapolate the long term potential of a system from.

My point had nothing to do with Wii U's horsepower.

 

[EatChildren]

"Hindsights 20/20" but damn! It's one thing to not see it yet, but if you're going consider Luigi's Mansion as a hardware defining game, but not Nintendoland, then your perspective is really warped.

Two months from launch there wasn't one person who realistically expected Wii Sports to ship 80 million copies. The game was a collection of tech demos and 2 of its 5 games weren't revealed until (respectively) this week.

I believe the bigger component of Nintendoland hasn't been revealed yet. They've mentioned Miiverse integration, but haven't detailed anything about it. I'm not totally sold on it yet, but at least, I'm waiting to see what becomes of it.

I didn't mention sales because I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about an important title built specifically around what a new generation of hardware offers, distancing itself from previous generations. Luigi's Mansion was built to showcase dual analogue gameplay, and Wii Sports speaks for itself.

The closest thing we have to such a title at launch for the Wii U is Zombi U. I'd argue P-100 might be leaning that way too. Regardless, Nintendo has yet to show anything that really sells the console as a huge leap in creativity, design and evolution of their philosophies into a new generation. That disappoints me.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

My point had nothing to do with Wii U's horsepower.

If you don't think there will be any Wii U games with production values comparable to current gen blockbusters I think you're crazy. Whether there will be enough to create a healthy ecosystem in the long term is another matter.

 

[Yagharek]

Nintendo has yet to show anything that really sells the console as a huge leap in creativity, design and evolution of their philosophies into a new generation. That disappoints me.

At this point I suspect the defining title will be a post-launch reveal. There are enough 1st party devs that havent shown anything for the system, and amongst them I expect a couple of defining games for both the core and expanded audiences. (Pretty much the same way DS fared - low key launch, big hitters a year later).

Retro's will be the core title, revealed around E3 2013 I bet.

 

[JordanN]

Since Zombi U up was brought I've been meaning to ask this.

I watched the latest buckingham palace trailer and saw something that looked next gen. I.e, the lens flare that goes along the "survival kit".

It reminds me off the effect used for the police sirens in the Unity 4 tech demo.

Also, when you go to enter the numbers, there's depth of field on your character.

It's harder to see in still.

 

[Mr Swine]

You guys know what irritates me is that when devs finally show games that look a lot better than PS3/360 games everyone will say it looks like shit. While the same people today drool over graphics like Halo 4 has, ugh

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

You guys know what irritates me is that when devs finally show games that look a lot better than PS3/360 games everyone will say it looks like shit. While the same people today drool over graphics like Halo 4 has, ugh

I look forward to at least 3 years worth of reviews that feel the need to state "It looks pretty good, for a Wii U game..."

Especially on IGN.

 

[Pineconn]

I watched the latest buckingham palace trailer and saw something that looked next gen. I.e, the lens flare that goes along the "survival kit".

GoldenEye Wii:

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Dat ZombiU trailer. So hyped.

 

[Seance]

You guys know what irritates me is that when devs finally show games that look a lot better than PS3/360 games everyone will say it looks like shit. While the same people today drool over graphics like Halo 4 has, ugh

So stupid right? It's almost as if peoples standards for graphics get higher over the years, like technology is progressing or something. So weird.

 

[JordanN]

GoldenEye Wii:

Interesting. Although I wonder if that's just a texture.

In Zombi U, the flare gets brighter when it's not being obstructed whereas in goldeneye, it looks the same no matter which angle you look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oX8sZdhfIn0#t=186s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B7oz68AAn5w#t=67s

 

[Barack Lesnar]

If you find out how small the next gen jump will truly be!

People are still touting this? :lol

do you know something? because people who know things have stated this not to be the case at all.

Of course he doesn't, that's why he ignored your post.

Generation has absolutely nothing to do with power

The Webster's English Dictionary definition might not but just like many other words there's more to it than just the literal definition. It's widely viewed that significant advancements in tech and other features are part of a next-gen electronic product.

Im going Wii U/PC only next gen and am not intending on ever getting a xbox720/PS4

You are coming off as an enormous Nintendude with statements like this, like you're saying it out of pure spite and anger.

So stupid right? It's almost as if peoples standards for graphics get higher over the years, like technology is progressing or something. So weird.

Lol

 

[Boogybro]

GoldenEye Wii:

They're making a new Goldeneye!!!!!!!?

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

So stupid right? It's almost as if peoples standards for graphics get higher over the years, like technology is progressing or something. So weird.

Actually, it is kinda weird. Consumers are just conditioned to think it isn't. Personally, I'm fatigued with having to give a shit whether a texture pops in 100 feet away from my character or whether I can kinda sorta make out the geometry on a character's shoe if I decide to analyze it. We're at a point where games present a fairly convincing illusion, even if it's not technically photo real. And while I think it's good for technology to continue to progress, people's fickle standards strike me as stupid and short sighted. In the end consistency and cohesion mean much more to me than fidelity for fidelity's sake. It's the reason why I still find, say, Yoshi's Island more visually appealing than 90% of my current gen games.

 

[EatChildren]

Zombi U lens flairs are unrelated to anything 'next generation'. It's been a staple of Mass Effect since the first.

 

[tkscz]

They're making a new Goldeneye!!!!!!!?

You're kidding right? This came out on the Wii nearly 2 years ago. I have it, very fun and great online play.

 

[D-e-f-]

They're making a new Goldeneye!!!!!!!?

That supposed to be a joke or did you really miss the Goldeneye Wii remake 2 years ago which even got a HD port last year as Goldeneye Reloaded?

 

[Boogybro]

But look at that lens flare!

 

[D-e-f-]

Zombi U lens flairs are unrelated to anything 'next generation'. It's been a staple of Mass Effect since the first.

Lens flares and god rays were the defining identifiers for the current gen. In cases when someone didn't know they played a PS3 game, you show god rays or a lens flare and suddenly it became clear

For next gen this time it's particle effect overkill.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Zombi U lens flairs are unrelated to anything 'next generation'. It's been a staple of Mass Effect since the first.

The lighting and shadows on ZU are clearly a bump above from what's seen on current gen consoles. ~Fin.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Lens flares and god rays were the defining identifiers for the current gen. In cases when someone didn't know they played a PS3 game, you show god rays or a lens flare and suddenly it became clear

For next gen this time it's particle effect overkill.

I think the awesome DoF we're seeing in some of these games like Watch_Dogs is another one

The lighting and shadows on ZU are clearly a bump above from what's seen on current gen consoles. ~Fin.

I doubt that's true.

 

[JordanN]

Zombi U lens flairs are unrelated to anything 'next generation'. It's been a staple of Mass Effect since the first.

So why does UE4 make a big deal out of it?

 

[Boogybro]

I think the awesome DoF we're seeing in some of these games like Watch_Dogs is another one

Bokeh is definitely next gen.

 

[EatChildren]

The lighting and shadows on ZU are clearly a bump above from what's seen on current gen consoles. ~Fin.

Disagree it's as cut and dry as that, but I'll let those who believe it keep thinking that because I'm not really interested in debating the matter.

So why does UE4 make a big deal out of it?

It doesn't? The tech videos for UE4 focus on much more than that. From memory, what they mentioned was pixel accurate real time lens flairs, briefly, while talking about a number of other lighting advantages. Numerous current generation titles have used the exact same lens effect as seen in that Zombi U footage. It's cool, but it's nothing particularly hardware intensive or ground breaking.

That lens effect is actually pretty significant in defining the entire art style for Mass Effect.

 

[MadeInBeats]

I think the awesome DoF we're seeing in some of these games like Watch_Dogs is another one


I doubt that's true.

Hahaha, now who sounds bitter and defensive? Not even entering into a discussion with anyone who refutes it. Clearly a case of rose tinted glasses when you can watch a multitude of ZU videos and it's there plain as day. Oh dear.

Disagree it's as cut and dry as that, but I'll let those who believe it keep thinking that because I'm not really interested in debating the matter.

Same, it's just not up for debate.

 

[DragonSworne]

I think the awesome DoF we're seeing in some of these games like Watch_Dogs is another one


I doubt that's true.

So effects that takes years and millions of dollars to achieve and a few games have it are the defining effects for this gen?

Bump mapping and normal defined this gen.

ZombiU is achieving effects that took years to nail properly for current gen, all within a couple months. This is thanks to the extra hardware power. It makes doing things easier than it is for current gen titles. The question is will companies bother doing more with it?

 

[EatChildren]

Same, it's just not up for debate.

Whatever helps get you through these threads, MadeInBeats.

 

[D-e-f-]

So why does UE4 make a big deal out of it?

UE4 makes a big deal out of light bouncing off of all surfaces realistically and stuff like that (global illumination or whatever that was called). Lens flares are hardly anything new.

 

[JordanN]

UE4 makes a big deal out of light bouncing off of all surfaces realistically and stuff like that (global illumination or whatever that was called). Lens flares are hardly anything new.

I'm not saying it's new, only that ZombiU/UE4 looks to have a more impressive version of that (compared to current gen).

 

[ScreenSplitter]

But ZombiU looks like, fun to play... that's important too right guys? ...guys?

 

[wsippel]

Bokeh is definitely next gen.

Bokeh is perfectly possible on a DX10 level GPU - DX9 if you have sufficient memory and bandwidth.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Whatever helps get you through these threads, MadeInBeats.

Tell us a joke EC, make us laugh.

 

[AOC83]

But ZombiU looks like, fun to play... that's important too right guys? ...guys?

Does it?

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Does it?

Yes, it certainly does.

 

[AOC83]

Yes, it certainly does.

Didn´t see anything from ZombiU that made me even the least bit excited yet, so i think this is debatable.

 

[EatChildren]

Didn´t see anything from ZombiU that made me even the least bit excited yet, so i think this is debatable.

I don't think opinions of taste and enjoyment are 'debatable'.

 

[AOC83]

I don't think opinions of taste and enjoyment are 'debatable'.

But isn´t that what we do here all the time? ;-)

 

[ColdBlooder]

I don't think opinions of taste and enjoyment are 'debatable'.

Have you forgotten where we are?

On NeoGAF everything is up for a heated debate... "My grass is greener than yours!!" etc...

 

[ScreenSplitter]

I don't think opinions of taste and enjoyment are 'debatable'.

No it's okay, I'll just cancel my preorder, the man's clearly right...

 

[Aostia]

I didn't mention sales because I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about an important title built specifically around what a new generation of hardware offers, distancing itself from previous generations. Luigi's Mansion was built to showcase dual analogue gameplay, and Wii Sports speaks for itself.

The closest thing we have to such a title at launch for the Wii U is Zombi U. I'd argue P-100 might be leaning that way too. Regardless, Nintendo has yet to show anything that really sells the console as a huge leap in creativity, design and evolution of their philosophies into a new generation. That disappoints me.

Well, actually two of the main selling points (not related to "sales age" but in terms of what Wii U should be able to offer) are:

Off-tv gameplay
Asymmetric multiplayer

THe first aspect is heavily marketed by New Mario (do you remember also the very first look they gave us of the Wii U at E3 2011?) while the second is heavily focused by NintendoLand.

Probably, while the remote had one major aspect to be presented (motion sensor = Wii Sport) Wii U has various different aspects (such as the two discussed, plus the Miiverse - once again presented by New Mario - plus the second window on the game universe - presented by Zombi - and so on) so we don't have just one game that becomes the icon of the console itself, but different games each and every one focused on some of the new features of the console

That said, probably none of those aspect is so strong as the motion sensor of Wiisport, but I have to admit that back in the days a lot of gamers were very suspicious about Wiisport if not worst, so the actual disinterest of gamers in those iconic games doesn't surprise me. Also back in the days thare was more interest in Galaxy (because it looked great, not because of wii-speficic elements), so I think that the disappointment we feel is because of the lack of a brand new game "for us". Gamepad or not.

 

[Blades64]

Oh gosh. The last 10 pages have been pure arguing from people on both sides of the fence. I thought this was the Wii U thread, you know...where the hype train was just last week? Seems like that train got derailed.

As for MG:GZ, I think it's an impressive game graphically (especially if they can create that level of visual fidelity on a PS3), but the 20 seconds of gameplay did nothing for me. Granted it's just 20 seconds so that's nothing to judge if I'll like it or not.

 

[ColdBlooder]

Oh gosh. The last 10 pages have been pure arguing from people on both sides of the fence. I thought this was the Wii U thread, you know...where the hype train was just last week? Seems like that train got derailed.

Thats what we get for puttinng it back in gaming. I didn´t want this thread here but NOOO....

The community thread was much more enjoyable than this ugly mess.

I hope we will see something new from Lego City Undercover on the 13th.

 

[Luigiv]

Bokeh is definitely next gen.

It's really not. Some current gen games already do it, including Skyward Sword.

 

[Daschysta]

Well, actually two of the main selling points (not related to "sales age" but in terms of what Wii U should be able to offer) are:

Off-tv gameplay
Asymmetric multiplayer

THe first aspect is heavily marketed by New Mario (do you remember also the very first look they gave us of the Wii U at E3 2011?) while the second is heavily focused by NintendoLand.

Probably, while the remote had one major aspect to be presented (motion sensor = Wii Sport) Wii U has various different aspects (such as the two discussed, plus the Miiverse - once again presented by New Mario - plus the second window on the game universe - presented by Zombi - and so on) so we don't have just one game that becomes the icon of the console itself, but different games each and every one focused on some of the new features of the console

That said, probably none of those aspect is so strong as the motion sensor of Wiisport, but I have to admit that back in the days a lot of gamers were very suspicious about Wiisport if not worst, so the actual disinterest of gamers in those iconic games doesn't surprise me. Also back in the days thare was more interest in Galaxy (because it looked great, not because of wii-speficic elements), so I think that the disappointment we feel is because of the lack of a brand new game "for us". Gamepad or not.

I'm a huge gamer, I own a gaming PC, PS3 and a 360 in addition to a Wii and NSMB has huge appeal for me, NSMB Wii was one of the best Mario platformers, speak for yourself when using terminology such as "us".

Since when is Pikmin 3 not a gamers game?

Also its Nintendo, there is a 100 percent chance there will be their usual "core" games on the Wii-U, I mean being cold on the system at launch is one thing, but if you are going to justify dissapointment as a non-finite thing in the entire platform on the basis of no core nintendo games it simply reaks of impatience.

 

[D-e-f-]

Didn´t see anything from ZombiU that made me even the least bit excited yet, so i think this is debatable.

So generally, do you enjoy slower paced games, possible of the horror genre with a strong survival focus? Or do you prefer more actiony, fluid or narrative focused stuff?

As for MG:GZ, I think it's an impressive game graphically (especially if they can create that level of visual fidelity on a PS3), but the 20 seconds of gameplay did nothing for me. Granted it's just 20 seconds so that's nothing to judge if I'll like it or not.

I think it's not just graphically impressive. The stuff Kojima said is arguably even more impressive. You've got the first completely open-world MGS game in which open world supposedly means THE WHOLE WORLD (though that sounds mire like a fancy marketing way of saying "huge open areas all over the world that you can travel to at any time but it's still quite impressive") as you can call in a helicopter at any point to take you to a different mission on another continent.

Since when is Pikmin 3 not a gamers game?

It does not has Teh Bl00d or Teh Sh00ting and it's totally for babies because it's cute and colorful. Obviously not for da real hardcore gamers, yo! Grab your nuts and pull the trigger, let's fuck some shit up, woohoo!!

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Oh gosh. The last 10 pages have been pure arguing from people on both sides of the fence. I thought this was the Wii U thread, you know...where the hype train was just last week? Seems like that train got derailed.

The thread has gone from people who want the WiiU ---> people who want to argue about the WiiU.

 

[Boogybro]

Bokeh is perfectly possible on a DX10 level GPU - DX9 if you have sufficient memory and bandwidth.

So not at all applicable to this gen.

It's really not. Some current gen games already do it, including Skyward Sword.

That's true actually. I'd be interested to know how Nintendo achieved that sort of effect in SS.