I never said that. Neither did i imply or meant to say that. But the argument that WiiU is only as powerful as PS360 because launch ports of games that were made after 6 years of development expertise on that specific hardware, don't look any better (generally on par with PS3 ports since 360 is usually lead platform) or slightly worse, is asinine. I'm not even arguing that the WiiU is all that much more powerful. But these techniques alone don't account for the massive jump from Perfect Dark Zero, to Halo 4.
Mass Effect 3 wasn't that far off of the 360 version and already better than the PS3 version. The same team is supposedly working on two other WiiU games. One being an exclusive. Let's see if we can notice improvements due to experience of working on ME3.
To put it more clearly, so that Log4Girlz can actually wrap his head around it: how well would ME3, AC3, Batman etc... have looked or ran on PS3, had those developers not have 6 years experience on that hardware, nor have been able to borrow info other than what was known about the platform 6 years ago and working under the same conditions as the studio's porting WiiU games. I wonder if Mass Effect 3 would reach 10 FPS.
~400 on the low end, ~580 on the higher end.
Some people (Thraktor) much smarter than I about this stuff expect about 440 shaders, so that would be 484Gflops, BG assumed 480 shaders, so it would be 528.
lightchris Whether it's R700 or even R900(northern islands/HD 6000) the efficiency per watt wouldn't change, both are around 12GFLOPs/Watt @ 40nm, but given that includes GDDR5, and desktop GPUs being designed with other things beyond power saving in mind, you'd see that number increase. If BG or the other highly intelligent NeoGAF poster (Thraktor) is right (given the actual size of the GPU 120mm^2+ for gpu silicon, it's likely they are) Then Wii U's GPU reaches ~16GFLOPs/Watt or in BG's case, ~17.5GFLOPs/Watt. Both of these numbers are less efficient than R700 mobile parts, so they are very realistic considering the maturity of 40nm and Wii U's customizations.
I can't believe people are still 'debating' whether or not the power is disappointing.The denial in this thread would be comical if it weren't so sad.
I can't believe people are still 'debating' whether or not the power is disappointing.
I can't believe people are still 'debating' whether or not the power is disappointing.
I can't believe people are still 'debating' whether or not the power is disappointing.
Why would you debate an opinion? You can debate whether you think games could be ported, but whether or not it's disappointing is a different thing.
The amount of vitriol in this thread is amazing. I'm actually kind of surprised that a mod hasn't made into some sort of mass graveyard in the last week.
There is nothing wrong about what is being posted in this thread. Mods are not here to encourage hivemind posts and censor shit you don't like. There not all Nintendo stockholders like you are.
Considering that ports from the end of last gen are looking identical on Wii U (CoD blops2) but running a bit worse, does leave me to assume that Wii U will have a fair amount of games that look better than last gen efforts. Just moving up to the more modern GPU should make games that look better than Last of Us possible.
That is to say stuff like Tessellation to smooth out objects and give more realistic environments/skin, would be nice.
Also moving physics to the GPU would give some cool effects not seen last gen. (think physX enabled games)
As for ports from other future consoles, I have no idea if publishers will be interested in Wii U, but it's much easier to port games to a console using the same "language" (for lack of a better word) than trying to put DX9 games onto hardware that barely understands DX7 level effects (Wii)
I expect ports from other future consoles to look like last gen 360 games on Wii U with some added effects thanks to the modern GPU.
Right, I don't think that Wii U is much more powerful than 360, I'm saying that even if it was just a 360 with a modern GPU would still fit with exactly what I had said...Come on, they looks "identical" because devs have learned a lot of techniques in current gen. Xbox 360 ports from Xbox wasn't "identical" to original versions, they was better than original versions, higher resoution, antialiasing, better textures in some cases, etc.
Right, they ported 360 games to the Wii U, not the PC versions, DF's review of CoDbo2 says as much, since the games use exactly the same visuals and even AA.Tessellation and other "modern" techniques are on PC multplat versions, why they ported DX9 versions?
Right, but Wii U has more GPU power than 360 from all accounts, so using the extra flops to render physics and maybe even AI and of course hopefully hitting 720p rather than sub HD like a lot of high fidelity last gen games, should be possible on Wii UAnd moving physics to the GPU will "steal" some power to GPU, what will happen to graphics if you are using GPU power for physics?
It will depend on how many resources will use the next gen game. If 720/PS4 are consoles with 6GB~8GB ram, APU + GPU, I really doubt Wii U will get ports.
I wouldn't waste anymore time trying to have a civil discussion with the troop of Nintendo haters that have flooded and ruined this thread since the Ram speeds were announced mate.
Come early next year we will be playing exclusive games like Pikmin 3, Rayman Legends, Wonderful 101, Lego City Undercover, Wario Ware, Monster Hunter Ultimate, Bayonetta 2, along with multi platform games that look and run better than the PS360 versions and in Oct / Nov two massive first party exclusives that really show off the power of the WiiU, while they are busy arguing amongst themselves about which version of MW4 has less jaggies, PS4 or the 720...
This is a forum for hardcore gamers. Of course they are going to be miffed that the first new console in 7years is underpowered, and take great interst in its internals.
I don't see why. If they really care they would have PC's not consoles. The "new" batch will always be old hat when compared to PCs anyway.
Nintendo doesn't owe gamers anything, they are a business. This is how they feel they can make a profit and stay in business.y
Caring about tech in a console doesn't mean you care about it exclusively. Nintendo doesn't make PC games.
There is great tech in the Wii U, it's just ultra efficient. Obviously not to everyones taste, but probably more attractive for the Japanese market. I think Nintendo is trying to dominate there.
I was pretty skeptical about the machine when it was announced, but I'm pretty much sold on it now, the power consumption is a feature AFAIC.
The Japanese market for consoles should only expand this generation!
How long will you be enjoying those multi-platform games? How long before the well dries up?
How long will you be enjoying those multi-platform games? How long before the well dries up?
The next Xbox and PlayStation are not "GPU-centric." There are pretty significant things happening with their processor architectures. And at least for Durango, it's not using off the shelf kit, contrary to what many GAF posters have insisted. Even more troublesome for the Wii U, they have much more dedicated GPGPU capabilities which aren't happening on the dedicated GPUs they're packing.
The simple idea of debating whether the WiiU will end up chewing more than the PS3 and 360 have ever done is truly depressing. What is the point, when Orbis-Durango are around the corner, I ask. The whole idea, at least the way I envisaged things, was to provide a plateform powerful enough to host next gen multi titles...with concessions, but still, capable of running them decently. This project does not seem as feasible right now. I don't understand Nintendo, really. They have deep pockets, and they used to propose beautifully designed consoles...LE SIGH...
It is just amusing to me that the standard hardcore response to Nintendo remains: "Nintendo so cray cray they do nothing logically". This is asinine. They do make sense, which isn't the same as always making the ideal decision. But they don't service a specific, particular audience exclusively, that apparently has a very narrow field of perception.
What do you guys think about this? Seems to have gone kinda under the radar, but it destroys much of the speculation in these threads and is from a real, legitimate source. Sounds like many of you were wrong.
What do you guys think about this? Seems to have gone kinda under the radar, but it destroys much of the speculation in these threads and is from a real, legitimate source. Sounds like many of you were wrong.
That post is very relevant to the discussion. Why is it when someone goes back and calls out all the wrong predictions and rumors, they're "rubbing it in" or have malicious intent.When you post things like this, what is your intent. It seems you appear here only to rub the noses of everyone rather than picking out people who made basic statements. Do you think this facilitates good discussion?
Who are the many, specifically?
Where is this from, I'm trying to make sense of it and having little luck. What is the context?
That post is very relevant to the discussion. Why is it when someone goes back and calls out all the wrong predictions and rumors, they're "rubbing it in" or have malicious intent.
People shouldn't be able to just go around spreading information/rumors/sources without any kind of review after the fact, so when it turns out they're wrong we're just supposed to forget they ever said anything. It's not rubbing it in.
Overly optimistic? They were dead wrong even when it wasn't an optimistic prediction. And that post is mainly about Durango and PS4 in relation to Wii U. There have been an abundance of posts in these WUST threads claiming 720/PS4 wouldn't be that big of a leap like this past gen was, that the CPUs for them weren't gonna be anything special, just generic Jaguar cores. These weren't people who were happy-go-lucky optimistic for Nintendo, they were downplaying the next-gen systems. That post, from a real source, refutes those claims. Destroys them. In my opinion, this should be pointed out. If that's rubbing it in, so be it. To me, calling it "rubbing it in" sounds like a cheap excuse to avoid the fallout.There were some people in the thread who were overly optimistic about the hardware power of WiiU. Heavy has made it his personal agenda to rub their noses in their supposed piddle spots of exuberant hope.
Problem is he doesn't point to specific people, but wants to shame everyone in this thread. Which is odd since the majority of people who posted in here were tech enthusiasts or people who knew Nintendo's history and were just curious what the specs were going to be.
So instead of PMing the overly optimistic he does these wild west shootout challenges. To me it comes across like this: "Come out here you people who were overly optimistic, I'm going to make sure you know what a loser you were."
Maybe I'm wrong and he just wants to give them all hugs.
They didn't. But this isn't about imagination. It's simply impossible to tell how something was done just by looking at the results.Did they say what features? I'm assuming graphical. I can't imagine anything behind the "smoke and mirrors" that the 360/PS3 can't do.
Overly optimistic? They were dead wrong even when it wasn't an optimistic prediction. And that post is mainly about Durango and PS4 in relation to Wii U. There have been an abundance of posts in these WUST threads claiming 720/PS4 wouldn't be that big of a leap like this past gen was, that the CPUs for them weren't gonna be anything special, just generic Jaguar cores. These weren't people who were happy-go-lucky optimistic for Nintendo, they were downplaying the next-gen systems. That post, from a real source, refutes those claims. Destroys them. In my opinion, this should be pointed out. If that's rubbing it in, so be it. To me, calling it "rubbing it in" sounds like a cheap excuse to avoid the fallout.
Harping on a word choice... that's your response? Fallout, consequences, results, conclusions, review, whatever, you get the point.
My point is there is no fallout. It's meaningless speculation on the internet. If they were right it doesn't matter. If they were wrong it doesn't matter. Do you feel these people need to be taught a lesson? Do you have your newspaper rolled up and ready to go?
What the fuck are you adding. Besides some sort of meta debate wankery?
This is a discussion forum, where people discuss and debate things. What do you expect?
Anyways. Its pretty clear heavy was right. wiiu is weak.
Why do you think that?
My point is there is no fallout. It's meaningless speculation on the internet. If they were right it doesn't matter. If they were wrong it doesn't matter. Do you feel these people need to be taught a lesson? Do you have your newspaper rolled up and ready to go?
"meta debate wankery"... I'll have to remember that :lolWhat the fuck are you adding. Besides some sort of meta debate wankery?
This is a discussion forum, where people discuss and debate things. What do you expect?
Anyways. Its pretty clear heavy was right. wiiu is weak.
This is still unknown. The system seems to have trouble with the full-screen transparencies in Black Ops 2 which points to some possible issues.I couldn't care less about multi platform games on WiiU tbh, i will continue to play them on my PS3 or 360 (unless they improve on WiiU) and then on my PS4 or 720.
My WiiU was and still is for exclusives only at this time.
If you want powerful new tech then by all means wait for a PS4 / 720, i just don't see why you waste your time arguing about WiiU hardware, day in, day out.
Did you really expect a powerhouse console after DS, Wii and 3DS, if you did your a fool.
Coming into this thread trying to make out we are all stupid because we talked about the possibility of an ~1TF GPU over a year ago in the WUST just makes you look like the troll you are.
As soon as we saw the power brick at E3 everyone expected exactly what we got (A slower clocked Tri Core CPU, 2GB's of Ram and a GPU at least twice as powerful as the 360's).
What you are doing is trolling, plain and simple and i don't know why you are allowed to get away with it.
If you want to discuss the hardware, why they chose that setup, what could be possible on it ect then cool but this constant 'haha, you fools' attitude is really destroying what was a really interesting thread.
There are plenty of other WiiU threads you can troll in, if that's what you want to do with your time.
This thread should be killed with fire imo, there are now 3 WiiU hardware threads, two of them have far more up to date info in their OP's and are from info based on actual tear downs / hacks.
It's always hard to determine hardware features from software, but the fact that they aren't running ported 360 games at higher res say to me that WiiU probably has similar fillrate and probably 8 rops, or the bandwidth to EDRAM isn't spectacular
That was a pretty good read, its refreshing to hear someone just outright say "we dont know".So many GAFers need to read this...:
Baptism of fire: the knives come out for Wii U
"And so on, and so forth. You don't have to look very far across the games media to find analysis of the business and market cases for Wii U; some of it interesting, although sadly, the vast bulk of it written with all the business and market understanding of a socially ill-adjusted 15 year old who still hasn't quite grasped that his worldview is only one worldview among 7 billion, and that people who like other music, movies, games or hobbies are not necessarily the result of some terrible brain-damaging accident or a widespread failure of abortion policy.
We live in a bit of a bubble in the games media; read enough sparkling repartee about the Wii in your comment threads ("ffs more waggle crap, nintendo sux", et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum) and it's easy to forget the sheer mass of people who bought a Wii and both used and enjoyed it just as much as they expected - a few hours of entertainment here and there, brought out at Christmas or birthdays to keep the family from one another's throats, treated as a light exercise device or a surrogate baby-sitter or a catalyst for drunken dancing.
"
That was a pretty good read, its refreshing to hear someone just outright say "we dont know".
Actually, I don't think this is necessarily proof. I replayed Sunshine today and I noticed there where many spots where Mario's shadow overlapped another objects shadow. Also, how did I know it's not prebaked? Some shadows were blatantly low res and unaffected by aliasing.That's what shadow mapping does. And I think TW101 doesn't even use shadow mapping a lot of it seems pre-baked, which only makes sense with the fixed perspective and 60 fps.
^ see the shadows overlapping