I've been using smartphones for years and I typed this post on a Nexus 7 and I don't want a touchscreen integrated into a traditional controller. As much as some people love it I do not want to divide my attention between the controller and TV while gaming. It's a step backwards in immersion in my eyes. Controllers should be as unobtrusive as possible.
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vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
- Thread starter Globox_82
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Fair enough, but calling everything new that's brought into play a "gimmick" doesn't make much sense.
Insane Metal
Member
I just wish Sony change the analog sticks. They absolutely suck.
runnin_blue
Banned
It's a great controller but unfortunately some people will keep on hating because Nintendo invented it.
Take away all Nintendo's "gimmicks" like the dpad, analogue stick, rumble, gyro, motion control and your left with a pretty ugly and unintuitive controller. Maybe that's what some people want.
Maybe we should play Black Ops 2 with this
That sure looks like fun...
Bingo.
MS doesn't need a screen on their controller. Just let gamers use their smartphone/tablet they already have and use smartglass. That should be enough to throw a map or HUD on a screen (revolutionary!) near the player if they want to take their eyes off their HDTV, because pressing a button to bring a map up on the tv takes 5 mins.
It's got nothing to do with Nintendo ffs, why do people like you assume everyone who has a problem with a Nintendo idea is just trolling? I would have rejected the gamepad no matter who made it and I hope Sony and MS don't copy them. Nobody is asking for other Nintendo invented features to be removed your argument is just ridiculous.It's a great controller but unfortunately some people will keep on hating because Nintendo invented it.
Take away all Nintendo's "gimmicks" like the dpad, analogue stick, rumble, gyro, motion control and your left with a pretty ugly and unintuitive controller. Maybe that's what some people want.
Maybe we should play Black Ops 2 with this
That sure looks like fun...
Gemüsepizza
Member
I doubt the controller will be similar to the WiiU gamepad. For several reasons:
- It's not as popular as the old Wii controller, which helped to sell many Wii consoles. And even while Sony copied the Wii controls, they did not support it much. So why copy now the less popular WiiU controller and make it a standard for PS4?
- This would encourage devs to port PS4 games to WiiU. Sony does not want that.
- Very expensive. Less money for powerful hardware available.
I guess a new controller could be a heavily improved version of the Move controller, similar to what we have seen in a Patent description. It would obviously look much better, maybe they can "hide" these Move orbs somehow.
I don't think Sony will only release a controller with minor or no updates, because then people would ask, why they can't use their existing PS3 controllers - but accessoires are important for Sony and Microsoft to earn additional money, because unlike Nintendo they sell their consoles probably at a not unsignificant loss.
- It's not as popular as the old Wii controller, which helped to sell many Wii consoles. And even while Sony copied the Wii controls, they did not support it much. So why copy now the less popular WiiU controller and make it a standard for PS4?
- This would encourage devs to port PS4 games to WiiU. Sony does not want that.
- Very expensive. Less money for powerful hardware available.
I guess a new controller could be a heavily improved version of the Move controller, similar to what we have seen in a Patent description. It would obviously look much better, maybe they can "hide" these Move orbs somehow.
I don't think Sony will only release a controller with minor or no updates, because then people would ask, why they can't use their existing PS3 controllers - but accessoires are important for Sony and Microsoft to earn additional money, because unlike Nintendo they sell their consoles probably at a not unsignificant loss.
Tripolygon
Banned
What people are complaining about is the "gimmick" nature of it and has nothing to do with what Nintendo "invented".
Wait, what boat? The anomaly that was the Wii? Lol, Wii U doesn't have the mainstream buzz/hype, it's not getting anywhere close to Wii's numbers. Possibly not even half that.
It's a great controller but unfortunately some people will keep on hating because Nintendo invented it.
Take away all Nintendo's "gimmicks" like the dpad, analogue stick, rumble, gyro, motion control and your left with a pretty ugly and unintuitive controller. Maybe that's what some people want.
Maybe we should play Black Ops 2 with this
That sure looks like fun...
Drop your nintendo glasses and go back when you cool off to have talk about controller design choice and actual usefulness of certain choices instead what you posted
I don't care about analog placement and I will never understand the dogged devotion some people have for one or the other. It's part of the reason nothing changes. I'm all about ergonomics and they're both lacking.
That would be nice. I'm hoping for something more like the split DS/Move that James was talking about. Also, even though Move may be packed in with every console I hope its use is optional. I still enjoy gaming while off-center and laying back in a recliner.
It's quite possible that both consoles will be shipping with significant peripherals yet they also both seem to be fairly powerful. 1313, Watch Dogs and the expectations for BF4 weren't created in a vacuum. I'm really interested to see how this will all shake out in regards to price and loss-leading.
airmangataosenai
Member
Seriously, no one denies that Nintendo came up with some very important additions to traditional controls. The problem is their arrogance when it comes to accepting ideas introduced by other people. The placement of the second analog stick on the new controller is completely absurd.
lack of second analog in 3ds is another one
runnin_blue
Banned
I disagree. I absolutely love it and find it extremely comfortable. It's one of my all time favourite controllers. Pretty much melts in my hands.
So sexy.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
AFAIK, DJmizuhara is very legitimate. He posts on GAF, he just seems like a kind of person who knows a lot and is super-nice guy. I just can't see him making something like that up for attention. Strange that there wasn't more talk around that message he made.
No it isn't, it makes more sense than any other combination with today's games.
More immersive is one reason, but the other is less on screen, less hud, less everything on screen.
Ammo count, etc could be on the gamepad screen instead of the tv. Or an always on side and rear view mirror for racing games,
Could it come off gimmicky? Maybe but could also be fun if done right.
Hell, throw in the vita's back touch pad as well for added measure. Everyone has different tastes and takes on what they would like though.
I use the 360 controller for pc games since the games have native support for it. But after long play runs, my left thumb starts to cramp up. I thought the same thing would be the case with the wii u game pad but with the wii u my thumbs are straight up not curved to the right slightly and pointing up. My issue with the 360 triggers is that it forces you to use your index fingers in the L2/R2 positions, you have to lift your fingers off to use the bumpers. with the standard placements i can keep my index fingers on the L1/L2 (bumpers) and my middle fingers on the L2/R2 (triggers) ad they never have to leave the buttons for faster response. The 360 grips are pretty much perfect, reminds me of the ps2 action controller. The start/select are also better on the 360.
pieatorium
Member
It can and has been done to have the inventory screen not pause the game which gives similar tension aspect. It would be better with double screen withou doubt but it's not something you can't do without the pad
Absolutely true, it can be done, with the last of us the items window is almost see through and I believe the game is still running while your grabbing stuff or creating items.
After playing zombiu though, I like the gamepad option better if given a choice.
yurinka
Member
Like Resident Evil 6 did?
He certainly seems like a pretty reliable guy from what I've heard of him on podcasts, so I don't doubt he believes that's true. Thing is he doesn't work for Sony, so his info would be second-hand at best, and what he posted might be the full extent of what he knows. And honestly, knowing the Dualshock is getting a major workover for the PS4 isn't a huge shock, the question is how it's changing...
Graphics Horse
Member
Here's something that was filed last year, I'm sure it must have been posted already but seems relevant.
http://www.google.com/patents/US20120268359
http://www.google.com/patents/US20120268359
I've been playing games since the sega master system and I think staggered sticks are way better than symmetrical sticks.
pieatorium
Member
pretty sure an even worse horror game also used it
Likewise except I started on the Atari 2600. I find the Dual shock design has always been uncomfortable to me.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Sony needs to throw the Dual Shock in the bin and start over.
The ergonomics are fucking awful, and that's without even starting on analogue placement, triggers etc.
The ergonomics are fucking awful, and that's without even starting on analogue placement, triggers etc.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Not sure about that if it is fact. Otherwise why PS3 still selling. Think about it more carefully, and ask yourself if you are alright.
shinra-bansho
Member
The purpose of the HUD is to have information readily available. Yes, you don't want a clusterfuck of crap on there. But removing a bunch of elements from it, solely for the sake of it defeats that purpose.
Why would one want to avert their eyes from play to see how many bullets they have left?
How is a rear view mirror in your hands more immersive, assuming one has sat in a car before or has a vague idea of the general layout?
I don't really get it.
I have a smartphone. I have no need for a touchscreen in my controller. No compelling need has been presented yet either.
And the widespread adoption of smartphones and tablets would mean that it makes more sense to integrate devices people already have with the systems.
With the amount of 360s sold it appears no one cares about good controllers.
longdi
Banned
lol try playing sports games with triggers, thats awful.
Ivan
Member
If it's anything big like Wii U controller, I'm retiring. I think I could survive a small, useful screen for keyboard and OS navigation. Anything bigger and essential to controller/console functionality would really piss me off. Or ANYTHING like that patent with huge move balls. I can't believe that's actually an option.
But I believe sony will make something elegant and functional. Or I hope....I hope...
But I believe sony will make something elegant and functional. Or I hope....I hope...
Dr.Palutena
Member
I'm not too sure where he stated what he said was fact, nor what sales has to do with the quality of controller ergonomics.While controllers are important I'm not sure anyone is buying a ps3 with the controller as their main reason of preference.
Personally I'd prefer sony and microsoft to not copy the wii u pad, i dont have the space for that in my setup and for all the travel I have to do, as humorous as it would be to see the reactions. I'd prefer the Dualshock to be altered a good bit but not in that way.
I play all games with triggers, not seeing what makes them awful.
iceatcs
Junior Member
It make sound like dualshock completely unused and broken that should be there is outrage reports but it didn't that deal. It work but everything has disadvantage, even other controllers too. I don't think it has major problem nor any report from health hazards by this Dualshock, just it is nowadays old fashion layout and quite small compare to others.
I do agree with that DS3 (& Sixaxis) may be the worst from Sony. I would like to see the change. Vita D-Pad is nice, would like to see that on DS4, with slight bigger and better triggers.
shadowsdarknes
Member
how about a touchpad on the back of a controller?
I predict that's exactly what they're going to add to Dualshock 4 (a la Vita's back touchpad)
Not sure if that would be beneficial though
funkystudent
Member
or a touchpad on the front like the Ouya controller.... for some reason.
Really excited if they do go back to the drawing board with the next dualshock. The current design has been good for this long but taking a fresh look at the controller might be for the best.
Once they dont completely casualize it I am ok with changing things up. And hey if the ps4 has bluetooth we will still probably be able to use old DS3's.
I hope its the old break apart controller though. Just give each part a stick so we dont have to point at the screen to do everything.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Hope the new ps4 pad uses the vita dpad and buttons, super responsive
MS wants to use Kinect to enforce DRM, you bet it will be built in.
dr_rus
Member
The main problem of a touch screen on a controller is it's size. And a screen with no touch controls is just pointless. I think Sony should just do a DS4 as an improved DS3 (buttons, triggers, sticks etc.) and use their BT/WiFi connectivity to add touch screen features in games via generic iOS/Android phones/tablets (make that a part of PS4 SDK with Sony's own phones/tablets serving as a reference devices). People will buy those anyway - why take an additional cost on the controller instead of just using what people already have?
So how is that DRM supposed to work if people choose to place their system in a cabinet behind closed doors? Or in a position where it's not facing the player?
It won't be built-in. Packed in? Sure.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I want a touch screen for menu navigation, and typing instead of having to use the stupid PS3 typing system. I don´t want games on the screen just menu navigation and touch typing.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
The more I think of it, the best possible controller would basically be two nunchuck move controllers that attach and break apart from a central touch screen (with back touchpad).
-Same functionality as the Wii U (I.e., play PS4 games on screen only if desired, no lag, or used in conjunction with TV.
-Better design than the Wii U (break apart nunchucks allowing for motion control integrated already rather than being entirely separate), not nearly as bulky - size would be about the same as a Vita screen.
-Ability to download and play Vita games on PS4, have them stream from PS4 console to controller. Effectively this puts a Vita inside of every PS4 sold, allowing Vita games to be sold to a potentially much larger market, and Sony isnt tethering the Vita's success to just one device. Obviously this wouldn't work outside of your own home, but lets be honest here -- most people play their Vitas at home (in western markets at least). This would be a brilliant business move for the Playstation ecosystem and would ensure support for Sony's handheld system for the life of the PS4.
If Sony doesn't make this vision a reality then they are missing a huge opportunity.
-Same functionality as the Wii U (I.e., play PS4 games on screen only if desired, no lag, or used in conjunction with TV.
-Better design than the Wii U (break apart nunchucks allowing for motion control integrated already rather than being entirely separate), not nearly as bulky - size would be about the same as a Vita screen.
-Ability to download and play Vita games on PS4, have them stream from PS4 console to controller. Effectively this puts a Vita inside of every PS4 sold, allowing Vita games to be sold to a potentially much larger market, and Sony isnt tethering the Vita's success to just one device. Obviously this wouldn't work outside of your own home, but lets be honest here -- most people play their Vitas at home (in western markets at least). This would be a brilliant business move for the Playstation ecosystem and would ensure support for Sony's handheld system for the life of the PS4.
If Sony doesn't make this vision a reality then they are missing a huge opportunity.
Sony could do off-TV play with mandatory remote play for vita, which would also encourage sales of vita for those that find off-TV valuable.
ZombiU could completely be done on a single screen without much change. You could keep the real time aspect and just have the camera looking down into your bag and only a peripheral view of your surroundings so you can see movement etc. for keypads you could have a 'glance behind you' button.
It wouldn't be the same, but it'd be close enough to not be a game breaker in any way.
I don't want a bulky screen sucking up my battery and costing Sony money that they should be spending on the guys of he machine.
Just give me a dual shock with concave secondary triggers (perhaps shifted down a bit), with upgraded motion sensors like move/vita so I can have motion assisted aiming like uncharted (zelda in Nintendoland also nicely shows the improvd motion tracking), and *maybe* if you have to, some move/eye toy packed in, but not if it doesn't cost you too much. POWAH first please.
Noo, I hate the vita rear touch pad, and have yet to find anything that uses it well - it just gets in the way with too many false positives
Edit: I'll take what Sawyer is saying, but without the 'central display with touch' - that can be a vita for those that want streaming
ZombiU could completely be done on a single screen without much change. You could keep the real time aspect and just have the camera looking down into your bag and only a peripheral view of your surroundings so you can see movement etc. for keypads you could have a 'glance behind you' button.
It wouldn't be the same, but it'd be close enough to not be a game breaker in any way.
I don't want a bulky screen sucking up my battery and costing Sony money that they should be spending on the guys of he machine.
Just give me a dual shock with concave secondary triggers (perhaps shifted down a bit), with upgraded motion sensors like move/vita so I can have motion assisted aiming like uncharted (zelda in Nintendoland also nicely shows the improvd motion tracking), and *maybe* if you have to, some move/eye toy packed in, but not if it doesn't cost you too much. POWAH first please.
Noo, I hate the vita rear touch pad, and have yet to find anything that uses it well - it just gets in the way with too many false positives
Edit: I'll take what Sawyer is saying, but without the 'central display with touch' - that can be a vita for those that want streaming