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[Dibbz]

That moment did nothing for me. It was pretty underwhelming even. I mean the airport scene is like another "Damn, another guys to shoot to get to my objective", and they decide to play this to make it awesome, why? It was just another "shoot enemies so you can get one step closer to your goal", it wasn't like you were achieving something big story or gameplay wise. Without the music that moment wouldn't have been remembered at all. "Tears" is a great track, don't get me wrong, it was just horribly misused.

Gotta say I agree with this. The inclusion of the track in that level is so odd. At first it's like, yeah shits gonna go down, and it does pump you up but if you step back and take a look at where you are story wise it just makes no sense. This was not some pivotal point in the game, it was just another shooting gallery for max to blow his way through. Really sums up the game pretty well though. Cinematic priority given over all else, especially when it makes no sense.

If anything it might have made a bit more sense playing the track in the police station as that level is where you first really go all out to fuck certain people up. Anyways that is beside the point.

 

[Incendiary]

I agree with a lot of what the OP says. I didn't like MP3 at all, and I was a huge fan of the first two games. I found there wasn't a whole lot of freedom, you could rarely ever get the drop on enemies as every cut-scene basically had you start out in action with enemies firing at you. Last Man Standing was also very poorly implemented and is the worst gameplay feature Rockstar added to the game.

 

[vidcons]

BUT I WANNA BE THE NEXT TOM CHICK!

tom is at least clever in masking his opinions, although he makes no mistake in proposing the idea that games journalism is nothing more than opinions -- reviews in general: lol -- so whatever.

kind of a little pissed off that everyone's opinion in here is so focused on what games should be instead of what they're capable of being. like, what fat kid sits there and tells grown men that what they're making isn't a good game by having some strict definition of what a game is when it's been a growing medium. instead of basing the mp3 off of your predefined notion of what a game should be, how about judge it based on how it functions within itself.

like, that's pretty much how most ~adult~ media critique functions

 

[Resilient]

You know your arguments can't stand on their own legs when you have to include gifs and jpgs to illustrate your point and detract from your criticisms.

 

[UrbanRats]

kind of a little pissed off that everyone's opinion in here is so focused on what games should be instead of what they're capable of being. like, what fat kid sits there and tells grown men that what they're making isn't a good game by having some strict definition of what a game is when it's been a growing medium. instead of basing the mp3 off of your predefined notion of what a game should be, how about judge it based on how it functions within itself.

like, that's pretty much how most ~adult~ media critique functions

The cutscenes break the flow too often, even if you analyse the game into a vacuum.
They're just too unnecessarily frequent and mundane in their content.
And that's the major gripe of most people.

 

[Draft]

Max Payne 3 is filled with collectibles that need to be scrounged from the large, complex battle grounds. Max Payne is frequently accompanied by an AI companion, or sometimes just his own internal monologue (!), that constantly urges, "Come on! We've got to go! Don't just stand there! Keep moving!"

What the hell :lol. I'm picturing some lead developer insisting that the collectibles must stay in the game and the rest of the team rolling their eyes at this incredibly gamey mechanic being shoehorned into a cinematic set piece delivery system. The voice overs urging the player on are a passive aggressive condemnation of the entire collectible system. Don't waste your time looking for a golden rifle stock. Move on, there are more people to shoot and cut scenes to watch!

 

[Menelaus]

See my fucking tag, OP.

 

[vidcons]

The cutscenes break the flow too often, even if you analyse the game into a vacuum.
They're just too unnecessarily frequent and mundane in their content.
And that's the major gripe of most people.

which is totally valid, but not because "WELL THAT INTERRUPTS ME"

because isn't addiction about how you have no control?

and then the game comes to an end and they actually interrupt a cutscene with a choice over whether or not you can shoot a guy. like, doesn't that kind of symbolize max's remission and some semblance of taking back a life that was out of his control?

isn't that sort of the point of the entire game?

~makes ya think~

 

[Resilient]

The cut scenes are excessive but aside from that how is the entire game flawed? Everything else in the game is a design decision. Would we rather that when Max rolls into a wall he shoots up within 1 second? Not all games must play the same. MP3 has its distinct set of rules and logic that it follows religiously, rarely breaking them. If the game rectified all of the OPs "flaws" the game would very much be broken.

 

[Card Boy]

The cut scenes are excessive but aside from that how is the entire game flawed? Everything else in the game is a design decision. Would we rather that when Max rolls into a wall he shoots up within 1 second? Not all games must play the same. MP3 has its distinct set of rules and logic that it follows religiously, rarely breaking them. If the game rectified all of the OPs "flaws" the game would very much be broken.

Gameplay is fine for the most part outside afew bulletspone enemies. My issue is they shat on the legacy of Max Payne from a story, level design, cutscene and presentation point of view.

I don't understand why everything has to be a cutscenes in Max Payne 3 even something as simple as opening a door or enemies talking is a dam cutscene. I rather the story move along through a set piece than a cutscene or the Half-Life/Halo 1/Alan Wake/MP1+2 thing of story being told through the world around you.

Also whos bright idea was it to get rid of the graphic novel cutscenes? Not only would they have saved costs by going with the graphic novel style they would of being skippable and fast forward-able aswell.

 

[cuyahoga]

You guys wanna know a game with a shitty cinematic style and shitty TPS gameplay?

Kane and Lynch 2. My god, I'm trying to play it right now and it's fucking unplayable.

That's the point. It's not supposed to be a fun game, which I thought was a brilliant move on IO's part; unlike Rockstar, IO don't fetishize sociopaths shooting people and attempt to make it as unfun and monotonous as possible. Playing Max Payne 3 just made me appreciate Kane and Lynch 2's conciseness and lack of ludonarrative dissonance more.

 

[Incendiary]

Max Payne 3 is filled with collectibles that need to be scrounged from the large, complex battle grounds. Max Payne is frequently accompanied by an AI companion, or sometimes just his own internal monologue (!), that constantly urges, "Come on! We've got to go! Don't just stand there! Keep moving!"

I think the thing that drove me insane was there wasn't any indication sometimes of whether the "come on, hurry!" was just dialogue or if there was an actual timer. At one point in one of the early stages I was checking for collectibles/health/weapons and suddenly I failed the mission with absolutely no warning. There was absolutely no indication I would fail if I didn't hurry at a breakneck pace, but there it was.

 

[vidcons]

kane and lynch 2 is so fucking good, my god.

it will be the best thing hipsters ever rediscover, i swear to god

 

[Card Boy]

Kayne and Lynch 2 was good until half way, which is 2hrs in (no joke). That torture scene was really unnecessary. Shooting mechanics and cover seemed off.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

kane and lynch 2 is so fucking good, my god.

it will be the best thing hipsters ever rediscover, i swear to god

It's atrocious. Nauseating shaky cam, broken AI, uninteresting plot. It's fucking horrible.

 

[blame space]

i like the army of two games

 

[Deleted member 81567]

The first Army of Two is a good game, the second one is pretty bad.

 

[Phoenixazure]

The first Army of Two is a good game, the second one is pretty bad.

the 2nd one didn't really look that appealing. As bland as the first one looked, it was a lot of fun to play.

 

[vidcons]

Kayne and Lynch 2 was good until half way, which is 2hrs in (no joke). That torture scene was really unnecessary. Shooting mechanics and cover seemed off.

no. the torture scene is totally important because it should be highlighting how unaffected you are by it all. when james bond got tortured in casino royale everyone was all "FUCK 'EM UP, BOND." watching kane and lynch get stabbed while the innocent girl got killed was so gross. i was thinking "these fucker totally deserve it, no matter how bad it is." and then you spend an entire level running around naked and shooting everyone. then you kill a fucking army. and then you take over a helicopter and shoot up a building, kill the main guy who you've never seen before for *reasons* and then kill tons of random cops to get to the airport. the torture scene should be the turning point where you begin to realize that these two dudes are fucking terrible people.

seriously, can i just get a tag that links to Dog Days on amazon or a GAF search of "vidcons" and "Dog Days"

i pimp it too much.

It's atrocious. Nauseating shaky cam, broken AI, uninteresting plot. It's fucking horrible.

no way just no way

let me explain to you why: "I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU" *cut* man, just no justification. just murder. why? because these dudes. what dudes? these dudes! "who?" man, these dudes in videogames *slurps a bottle of jack*

 

[Deleted member 81567]

the 2nd one didn't really look that appealing. As bland as the first one looked, it was a lot of fun to play.

Yep. The third one looks like an abortion.

no. the torture scene is totally important because it should be highlighting how unaffected you are by it all. when james bond got tortured in casino royale everyone was all "FUCK 'EM UP, BOND." watching kane and lynch get stabbed while the innocent girl got killed was so gross. i was thinking "these fucker totally deserve it, no matter how bad it is." and then you spend an entire level running around naked and shooting everyone. then you kill a fucking army. and then you take over a helicopter and shoot up a building, kill the main guy who you've never seen before for *reasons* and then kill tons of random cops to get to the airport. the torture scene should be the turning point where you begin to realize that these two dudes are fucking terrible people.

seriously, can i just get a tag that links to Dog Days on amazon or a GAF search of "vidcons" and "Dog Days"

i pimp it too much.

That probably is an okay moment, but how about the actual, you know, gunplay?

 

[jet1911]

The only thing that really bothers me in Max Payne 3 is the unskippable cutscenes. It makes replaying the game a chore. The fact that Rockstar haven't said a word about fixing that is pretty sad.

 

[vidcons]

Yep. The third one looks like an abortion.



That probably is an okay moment, but how about the actual, you know, gunplay?

slippery, ridiculous, and totally passive because murder affects these guys so little. why should there be a focus on how guns function or react to the player when these dudes don't give a shit about killing?

they just kill because. why are guns important in highlighting that? guns being enjoyable would kind of detract from the dead bodies. corpses are more affecting than the guns, which is the point. you're killing [digital] people, not shooting a gun.

e: Okay, no drunk talk for a moment. By the end of the game, you should be able to identify that Kane and Lynch are awful people. What they do is wrong, they do it for wrong reasons, and that the world is shit because of them. In their fictional universe, life would be better off without them. Since there needs to be a Kane and Lynch game, there needs to be a world that is ruined by them. The whole game functions as commentary on how disgusting and gross it is that violence is glorified through patriotism and cheap, Hollywood Gotta Be's (the good guys) justification. The entire game isn't a commentary on videogame violence being wrong (like Spec Ops: The Line) but how the player is treated. Stabbing a guy's throat and watching his eye's curl into his head in Modern Warfare 2 shouldn't be EPIC. It's disgusting. People applauding the face blast at E3 during The Last of Us trailer should shock us more than the content. Dog Days doesn't signify how videogame violence is wrong or bad or just shouldn't be there, but it does make a careful assessment of the characters that commit these acts. Dog Days really isn't even about anything other than shooters that choose to situate themselves in the real world and have you kill *real* representations of ~people~.

It's just commentary on the player/contributor to the violence. That's why the camera is some shaky cam, tag along that you represent. Eventually, the game draws to the concept of the player being a participant in killing people which adds to the criticism in what the videogame industry has become. No longer is it about killing robots or attacking aliens, you're supposed to be killing humans that are against you for no other reason than your existence. K&L2 rules.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

You're giving that game too much credit. IO are like the worst candidates to construct the game you're fantasizing about.

 

[Card Boy]

The fact that Rockstar haven't said a word about fixing that is pretty sad.

I suspect either

A) The don't care
B) They are really poor programmers and every cut-scene masks loading for a new area.
C) They are so up themselves that they love it

 

[jet1911]

Probably C

 

[BadAss2961]

lol, this thread... Now there's people siding with Kane & Lynch 2 over Max Payne 3? Wow.

 

[Derrick01]

Kane and Lynch 2 was so horrible and trashy that it's one of the few games I ever said "this is so fucking horrible I'm not even going to finish it" despite it being only 4-6 hours apparently. My friend agreed when we were playing co-op and we've never been back since. If I get bored enough I might try to go through it again.

 

[zkylon]

You're giving that game too much credit. IO are like the worst candidates to construct the game you're fantasizing about.

He's trolling, it's what he does.

 

[Card Boy]

lol, this thread... Now there's people siding with Kane & Lynch 2 over Max Payne 3? Wow.

At least Kane and Lynch 2 is true to Kane & Lynch 1

Spoiler

(they both suck)

 

[White Man]

Is Kane and Lynch more or less awful than the new Hitman?

 

[zkylon]

Is Kane and Lynch more or less awful than the new Hitman?

I haven't played the new Hitman game, but I imagine it's hard to find a game more awful than the second Kane & Lynch.

I liked the first one, though, at least in that one Kane and Lynch had a semblance of villianesque charm about them. But GFWL, so still shit.

 

[Derrick01]

Is Kane and Lynch more or less awful than the new Hitman?

Hitman at least still has moments of awesome in it with the traditional levels. K&L2 is just a boring linear 3rd person shooter that doesn't really do anything well in its respective genre.

 

[vidcons]

You're giving that game too much credit. IO are like the worst candidates to construct the game you're fantasizing about.

nah man, get to the train station, beat it, and be like "WHAAAAAT"

Is Kane and Lynch more or less awful than the new Hitman?

Hitman is pulp. Dog Days is smarter and stronger than Spec Ops.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Kane and Lynch 2 was so horrible and trashy that it's one of the few games I ever said "this is so fucking horrible I'm not even going to finish it" despite it being only 4-6 hours apparently. My friend agreed when we were playing co-op and we've never been back since. If I get bored enough I might try to go through it again.

I wouldn't even return to that shit even if you paid me. It made me physically sick.

 

[MG310]

Agreed with the OP. I wish they had developed the diving into stuff a little better - maybe have Max turn so he slams into a wall back first and is immediately in cover. They definitely couldn't just leave it so that you just finish the entire animation while grinding up against a wall.

I really couldn't have cared less about the big reveal of what the villains were doing. How can I care about anyone in this game world when they have shown that every single person in it is shit save for one?

Also, after this game I am adhering to a strict "No Favela levels ever" policy.

 

[zkylon]

K&L2 does have a pretty effortlessly cool main menu

 

[cuyahoga]

lol, this thread... Now there's people siding with Kane & Lynch 2 over Max Payne 3? Wow.

This was clear-cut the first hour I played MP3, and I've probably posted about my preferences here numerous times. Kane & Lynch 2 is a memorable and haunting deconstruction of shooters; Max Payne 3 is a turgid and banal AAA game that wastes a good setting.

I'd much rather have more games like Kane & Lynch 2 that are divisive by design and eschew the by-committee, focus group-driven trends that dominate modern gaming in favor of actual vision. Deadly Premonition is the only retail game I've played since that I would throw in this category.

 

[Stallion Free]

I see this a lot around here (and in the press to be fair) - where people don't seem to be playing the game in front of them on its own merits, but the game they have imagined in their head, and when the two disagree that becomes a failure of the game. Yes, this is still a Max Payne game, and it still has Max Payne trappings and mechanics, but this one has its own identity separate from the two games that came before.

Very nicely said. I think it's something that everyone can be guilty of at times, but some people are almost consistent.

 

[UrbanRats]

Is Kane and Lynch more or less awful than the new Hitman?

I haven't played the new Hitman game, but I imagine it's hard to find a game more awful than the second Kane & Lynch.

I liked the first one, though, at least in that one Kane and Lynch had a semblance of villianesque charm about them. But GFWL, so still shit.

Kane & Lynch 1 had the awful part in Cuba though.
I like K&L2 better, infact i think it captures Shanghai in a very special manner, i really love the visual style and narration they've gone for.
The game mechanics though are really as mundane as they come and they don't even work that well, it's a shitty game in a very nice wrap, as far as i'm concerned.

K&L1 is still a shitty game, but in a less interesting wrap.

But when the best part of a game is the main menu screen, there's something off.

 

[moneyman232]

meh, outside of the unskippable cutscenes, i really loved MP3, and yes I'm a fan of the first 2. Though story holds weight, i play games to have fun and this was among the most fun i've ever had playing a TPS.

Gunplay is a fantastic ode to the Heroic Bloodshed genre, you don't see the action heroes flubbing dives by crashing into objects around the environment, and i expect the same with a game like this. The game is really rewarding once you've learned how to balance the tools you're given. There's something immensely satisfying about taking a quick breather behind cover, rolling out and unleashing a planned and effortlessly executed slow-motion rampage.

Though the story wasn't without issues, i thought it did a good job,was surprising and took the series to some different places. All in all i thought it was excellent, and my personal pick for GOTY.

 

[Polishin8r]

i like MP3 it was unique experience and tightest 3rd person shooting mechanics ever, if they took only was more open it be GOTY and skippable cutsceans

 

[Card Boy]

I beat it, I would say that .5 hrs is properly stuffing around in multilayer 10 minutes of which was waiting for a game. I can't believe they where asking $50/60 for this.

 

[Sojgat]

You're all just blind to the metatextual glory that is Kane and Lynch 2. IO discovered that if you invest meaning into something, it doesn't matter how crap the end product is, because it's art... and stuff. It makes shitting out bad sequels much easier.

Of course it's possible somebody could seriously believe such hidden depths reside within such an awful game. Making every thread somehow about Kane and Lynch 2 isn't a schtick at all.

 

[BadAss2961]

This was clear-cut the first hour I played MP3, and I've probably posted about my preferences here numerous times. Kane & Lynch 2 is a memorable and haunting deconstruction of shooters; Max Payne 3 is a turgid and banal AAA game that wastes a good setting.

Seriously dude, MP3 blows away K&L2. It's not even worth arguing.

And I liked K&L2.

 

[White Man]

I didn't get to play much of the new Hitman, but the way the game controlled (I recall some sort of weird smoothness of camera\targeting) reminded me of the 30 or so seconds I played of K&L. Hmm, I think I might own an unopened copy of K&L2. I might be able to have a really unpleasant Saturday night.

 

[MG310]

Only thing I really appreciated about K&L2 was that once it got going it never let up.

 

[vidcons]

You're all just blind to the metatextual glory that is Kane and Lynch 2. IO discovered that if you invest meaning into something, it doesn't matter how crap the end product is, because it's art... and stuff. It makes shitting out bad sequels much easier.

Of course it's possible somebody could seriously believe such hidden depths reside within such an awful game. Making every thread somehow about Kane and Lynch 2 isn't a schtick at all.

when all games are shooters, all threads should be abotu Dog Days

 

[LTWood12]

Played through it on hard. Don't think it's quite as broken as the OP states, but I will say its the game I had the least fun playing this year. I mean, I almost broke my controller countless times on the airport conveyor belt level.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

May as well move all this to the next page. I had to cut stuff out of it to meet the post limit; quotes were shortened, not cherry-picked.

 

[zkylon]

^ not at all related with your opinion, just the formatting but the above post must be the most hideous thing ever

Also I find the comparison of "shooters" to guns to be totally ridiculous. Games are not a tool, they tell stories and they engage people in different ways, certainly capable of being more profound than a gun...

Kane & Lynch 1 had the awful part in Cuba though.
I like K&L2 better, infact i think it captures Shanghai in a very special manner, i really love the visual style and narration they've gone for.
The game mechanics though are really as mundane as they come and they don't even work that well, it's a shitty game in a very nice wrap, as far as i'm concerned.

K&L1 is still a shitty game, but in a less interesting wrap.

But when the best part of a game is the main menu screen, there's something off.

Yeah, Cuba's pretty terrible, but I kinda liked the choices at the end, so there's that.

And yeah, the main menu is awesome.