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[Paul Alexander]

Ok that Eurogamer review is pretty awful.

 

[Andrew.]

Wow.

I'm done with these threads.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to pick it up next week.

 

[Lime]

and both are valid. to infer that one should always score higher than the other, is to concede that scores are completely futile in the first place.

which they are. different people look to reviews for different things. this notion some of you have that reviews should all try to do the same exact 'objective' thing... kind of makes the whole point of multiple reviews existing pointless.

How did you infer that from my post? It was more of a personal description on how I consume my entertainment as a comment on why Kuchera's statement isn't necessarily a positive thing. I wasn't trying to argue that it was invalid.

 

[antitrop]

Why is it an embarrassment to games? The style of play is woefully underrepresented in modern gaming. Who will take up the mantle and give us compelling environments filled with deadly traps and puzzles? As mentioned up-thread perhaps From, but still they will keep an emphasis on combat that is beyond what traditional Tomb Raiders have been about.

I would argue Tomb Raider didn't do a good job of that in the first place.
Though I certainly wouldn't mind a sequel to this reboot in the ways that you mention, if they can match the (apparent) quality of this game.
My problem with previous Tomb Raiders is purely about the overall quality, not the details. If those Tomb Raider games were actually good, that would have been fine.

As far as I'm concerned, this is most likely the best Tomb Raider game in 15 years. So I don't give a shit if they had to deviate from the standard formula to achieve that.

 

[Seda]

The only Tomb Raider game I've played is that Guardians of Light one, so let me preface my comment with that. I don't think borrowing, even heavily, from other (successful) games is inherently a bad thing if it does it well enough. I understand that it will be a radically different game from other games in the series, but I don't think that's inherently bad either if it does what it's trying to do well. I don't need every game to try to be something never done before.

That said, I'm actually only marginally interested in this game just because it's not really my type of game, heh.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Agreed. The series released when I was 14 or 15 and even back then I found it to be boring as fuck. I mean, I totally understand the butthurt coming from the kids that used to yank their cranks to Lara spreads in old EGMs and GamePros, but that polygonal ass and tits just didn't do anything for me or my 120mhz Packard Bell.

"The only people who hated Street Fighter 4 were kids who used to jerk it to Chun Li not liking her new thighs"

 

[Andrew.]

Or, you know, the butthurt coming from mature adults that welcomed as close to Indiana Jones in a computer game that we've ever gotten...

And see, I never even saw it like that. I thought it looked horrible and played worse. The words "Indiana Jones as a woman" never even sprung to mind.

The shitty Jolie movies just made the whole thing even worse.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I was always interested in this game because it reminded me of Uncharted.
The Ausgamers review says:

It’s a better Uncharted game than Uncharted 3 was, and goes a long way towards reminding us of the value of the Triple-A blockbuster in a market where smaller indie efforts have started to get so good that we need such reminders.

Sign me the fuck up. I want in on this hype train. Where do I put my money...wait, wait? What's that other review say?

There also seems to be a constant worry that the player is not being given enough Things To Do. So meaningless tasks are offered up endlessly - Find All the Vases! Collect All the Mushrooms! Burn All the Flags! There are so many diary pages and collectable objects lying about that the island feels like a rubbish dump for a deeply dull museum.

The multitude of menus via which the objects are curated don't help, and nor do the endless onscreen messages. It's hard to get about excited about "2 OF 3 CEREMONIAL FANS FOUND!", no matter how that sentence is capitalised or punctuated. I am not ashamed to reveal that my final tally reads "0% VASES". (Although I am proud to have managed "67% KANPO HERBS".)

It's plausible there are players out there who can indeed be bothered to crack open every crate. And it is possible to complete the game while skipping the collecting business. But the sheer volume of stuff makes it hard to ignore, and so it becomes an annoying distraction.

Oh come the fuck on. I guess I'll get to this once I finish Far Cry 3. You know, that other open world game set on an island designed to torment people with OCD. I love you Lara, but I've got about 62 more idols to collect, eight more lost letters to find, seven more raido towers to climb and about 18 more outposts to liberate.

In one review it sounds like a linear action adventure game and others it sounds like everything I hate about Far Cry 3. I'll probably pick it up eventually once it goes on sale I guess.

 

[Andrew.]

"The only people who hated Street Fighter 4 were kids who used to jerk it to Chun Li not liking her new thighs"

Fucking exactly =P

 

[Lime]

I disagree here. RE6 played nothing like RE5 although they shared a lot of level design similarities then it was bashed by the press. Then we have games like Far Cry 3 scoring really well.

I think that games that offers some way to get around their linearity, like the collectibles or even the same few side missions all over again are likely to score better nowdays. Simple linear design isn't gonna cut it anymore.

I don't think we disagree, we are just approaching the issue from different angles. I was talking of more of a general overview of the state of reviewers, while you seem to be talking about specific design aspects that affect the score/evaluation (which I don't disagree with).

 

[AzaK]

Nice reviews. Nintendo if you don't have a hidden announcement for this ASAP my money's going elsewhere.

Spoiler

I know the answer

 

[sublimit]

Sad day for Tomb Raider fans.

I think it's a fine day actually because this is the final nail in the coffin for long time fans so it's the best time to move on.The fanboys and the respectful "journalists" can finally have what they always wanted/cared about in this game:

Spoiler

Lara.

For the rest of us the level editor community is stronger than ever and i have a feeling that there will not be too long before a new IP comes out that embodies all the core elements of the series.
For the time being though we have games like Mirror's Edge 2 and Dark Souls 2 too look forward to.

 

[SlasherJPC]

In one review it sounds like a linear action adventure game and others it sounds like everything I hate about Far Cry 3. I'll probably pick it up eventually once it goes on sale I guess.

That's the beauty, it's both in a way and totally up to you from all I can tell. Just want the action adventure, go for it. Explore and collect. Do it.

 

[Fletcher]

I wish there were some PC vs. 360/PS3 comparisons.

Can't decide whether or not to use the CAGROCKS coupon on Amazon for Sim City & then the GMG coupon on this or the opposite. Sim City also have a $20 credit if you get the box version. Decisions, decisions.

You can only use the CAGROCKS coupon once? Damn.

 

[90TilInfinity]

Finally got around to watching Tara Long's video review for Rev3Games...shame to hear (and see) that even the depth from XP, skills etc, is tacked on (not just the multiplayer). Seeing how tiny those tombs were was very disheartening also. Very informative review all round though.

Will still get around to playing the game at some point this year.

 

[Remachinate]

Whenever I have this feeling that Kuchera describes when I'm walking out of a movie theatre, the feeling of satisfaction might be good, but it is fleeting. The experience might be adequately entertaining, but it is simply empty calories, to use the same analogy.

The good and masterful experiences are not the ones that make me feel satisfied, but the ones that stay with me, make me think and reflect on its themes, and emotionally impacts me to such a degree that my world-view is influenced by it.

Thus, I don't see how Kuchera's assessment is a good thing. It's the difference between mindless throw-away media consumption and intellectually/emotionally stimulating "art".

Thank you. I'm amazed at the extent to which substantive game design is undervalued on these boards and in general, and it's unfortunate that most reviews don't differentiate polish from narrative and mechanical depth in their assessment of quality.

 

[Nirolak]

I agree that there seems to be trend in the latter half of 2012 and forward in which reviewers were more down upon repetitious AAA sequels than earlier. Unfortunately it is still the upper echelon of the 100-scale that is being used ad nauseum for these titles, so the couple of points are not that significant in this growing trend to be more hard on sequel# 3 in the same AAA franchise. I simply attribute this tendency to be IP fatigue more than a tendency to be more critical.

I'll bet that once the new IPs land in next generation, game reviewers will return to being dazzled by production values and polish and subsequently overlook the non-obvious flaws.

Given that a lot of the review sites are American, I imagine they just inherit the grade system.

Here an A is 90-100%, a B is 80-89%, and a C is 70-79%, and anything below that is seen as pretty horrible and even a C is seen as quite questionable in most places.

Since they know that's the conception everyone here has for ~10+ years of letter graded schooling, they probably try to trick to it so it's more intuitive to their readers. I mean how many times have we seen 7's and seen a response of "That is horrible how dare Edge do that!!!!". It's a reaction that comes from years upon years of institutionalized focus on what these specific number bands mean.

However, this also means that while 6 out of 100 points may be viewed as very small on an absolute scale, a lot of their audience will look at that and see the games as far apart, which still gets their original message across.

I do agree though that the generation's length is really what's causing this to happen. When everything looks the same and starts feeling the same, something that seems different (like a reboot or a more unique downloadable title) starts looking a lot more appealing than something that is a samey third sequel or (even worse) a sequel that replaces what's unique about a franchise with stuff that is found very commonly in other games in a non-interesting manner.

Once we change to shiny new games though, unless they play extremely derivative of current gen games, I expect the "newness feeling" to boost review scores a lot.

Outside of the odd bomb that should have never been released like Aliens, most major release reviews from the major videogame media like Gamespot, IGN, Game Informer consistently get around 8, give or take a degree. I don't think what you listed is much separation at all, especially when so many use 0.5 grades of scale.

Not that I'm bashing the reviewers for not being more strict, but that days of major "bomba" reviews are basically over. Games have advanced to the point where unless they're development hell and greenlighted like Aliens, they're competent on some level. Fundamentally broken games don't get released much anymore.

So that leaves you with very predictable results. The canned 8, 8.5 is commonplace this year, and all throughout last holiday with Assassins Creed, Call of Duty, Madden, etc.

Basically you don't even have to read reviews anymore, you know what they'll get for the most part, you know what genre you like, and they all boil down to "if you're a fan of this genre, you'll like this" and that's basically it.

I definitely agree with you here, but yeah, I do think that's largely an aspect of all the garbageware no longer really focusing on the platforms that get a lot of reviews.

I mean we can certainly find seas of garbage on iOS or from Ubisoft's 3DS shovelware, but since no one reads reviews for those, well, there's no incentive to actually review them.

 

[Baconsammy]

It’s a better Uncharted game than Uncharted 3 was, and goes a long way towards reminding us of the value of the Triple-A blockbuster in a market where smaller indie efforts have started to get so good that we need such reminders.

This isn't much of an achievement to me. UC3 was perhaps one of the biggest disappointments I had all gen.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Fucking exactly =P

I can't tell if you're being serious or not

My point was, that's neither a fair nor accurate assessment, and ignores the entire game portion of the equation.

 

[ezekial45]

For the sake of discussion, which features? Because honestly in my opinion DmC didn't do anything that the other games did equally, if not better.

Just the quick and easy ones (I'll leave art/level design out, even though the club stage was the best level in the entire series, IMO);

- pacing and structure; DmC always kept things interesting by offering unique levels to go through. No backtracking (save for one level) and no repeated content. The previous games were notorious for these, and DmC put more thought and design in the levels than any other game in the series.

- flexibility; for the first time in the series, the expanded platforming controls made exploring for secrets and simply moving around the environments fun. In respect to combat, I felt DmC did a much better job with having the variety and flexibility in combat. DMC4 was the only other game in the series to try the all purpose approach with Dante, but that just came off sloppy in execution. The new approach to combat with mass crowds of enemies in DmC made the all purpose design more intuitive.

I have more, but those are just the ones that'll get a discussion going. This game is about on the same level as the other games, but yes it is weaker in a few areas. After being invested in this series since the beginning, I'd rate DmC as followed.

DMC3 = DMC1>>>DmC>>>DMC4>>>DMC2

Anyone who says this game is the worst of the series is full of it. Was it the perfect DMC game? No, but neither were the other games to be totally honest with you.

 

[Andrew.]

I can't tell if you're being serious or not

My point was, that's neither a fair nor accurate assessment, and ignores the entire game portion of the equation.

I wasn't being serious, nor was I being serious with the post you commented on before, aside from the fact that I've never had an interest in this series up until this reboot.

 

[gamethriller]

This game is awesome. Trust me.

 

[Conor 419]

The story was pretty lackluster in FC3, admittedly (except for naked tribal chick), but the game was so awesome it made (to me at least) it wholly unimportant.

=|

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

I think it's a fine day actually because this is the final nail in the coffin for long time fans so it's the best time to move on.The fanboys and the respectful "journalists" can finally have what they always wanted/cared about in this game:

Spoiler

Lara.

For the rest of us the level editor community is stronger than ever and i have a feeling that there will not be too long before a new IP comes out that embodies all the core elements of the series.
For the time being though we have games like Mirror's Edge 2 and Dark Souls 2 too look forward to.

This. By god, i hope for this!
Now Lara has gone the way is clear for a new studio and IP to fill the vacuum left and give us TR fans some great exploration and environmental Tomb Raiding puzzles.

I suppose that's one good thing about the reboot. Thanks, CD!

 

[Nemesis_]

Has it been discussed why Videogamer aren't putting up their review early? They said they didn't agree to some of the NDA so they refused to sign it, hence losing opportunity for review code.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I hope I enjoy this when I pick it up next week.

 

[Jac_Solar]

Whenever I have this feeling that Kuchera describes when I'm walking out of a movie theatre, the feeling of satisfaction might be good, but it is fleeting. The experience might be adequately entertaining, but it is simply empty calories, to use the same analogy.

The good and masterful experiences are not the ones that make me feel satisfied, but the ones that stay with me, make me think and reflect on its themes, and emotionally impacts me to such a degree that my world-view is influenced by it.

Thus, I don't see how Kuchera's assessment is a good thing. It's the difference between mindless throw-away media consumption and intellectually/emotionally stimulating "art".

Popcorn; it's more about the act/having something somewhat enjoyable to eat, but it feels empty, and does not satiate your hunger in the slightest -- it's an empty meal, but it's slightly enjoyable.

Well, that's what I thought the term "popcorn movie" meant.

 

[daninthemix]

Sounds like it isn't for me as combat is now the dominant gameplay component. I felt the Uncharted games had too much combat, and in fact could've done with none at all.

 

[Coolwhip]

Just watched the rev3 review and I was already bored of the game halfway through the video. Now I guess this just means these types of games are not for me, but I am curious what makes it appealing to others. What is fun about games like this and Uncharted?

 

[Prine]

I think it's a fine day actually because this is the final nail in the coffin for long time fans so it's the best time to move on.

It really is - there's nothing else to said really. Well done CD!

I'll pick it up soon.

 

[stufte]

Just watched the rev3 review and I was already bored of the game halfway through the video. Now I guess this just means these types of games are not for me, but I am curious what makes it appealing to others. What is fun about games like this and Uncharted?

Actually playing them.

 

[sublimit]

This. By god, i hope for this!
Now Lara has gone the way is clear for a new studio and IP to fill the vacuum left and give us TR fans some great exploration and environmental Tomb Raiding puzzles.

I suppose that's one good thing about the reboot. Thanks, CD!

It will happen one day i'm sure about it.I only hope for that game to be also good enough (beside having the core TR elements) to make an impact.

It really is - there's nothing else to said really. Well done CD!

I'll pick it up soon.

I'll pick it up too.I like watching hollywood movies.

 

[ii Stryker]

Out of all the reviews the Rev3games review seems like its the most honest.

With Bioshock Infinite right around the corner I'll buy TR when it receives a significant price drop.

 

[RoKKeR]

that is not correct and Uncharted didn't define a genre or something.. Why do people keep bringing that series on this thread?

Alright, I was a bit overstated there, but you simply can't deny the parallels between this game and that game.

 

[Snkfanatic]

Sounds like it isn't for me as combat is now the dominant gameplay component. I felt the Uncharted games had too much combat, and in fact could've done with none at all.

That sounds incredibly boring to me....

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Just watched the rev3 review and I was already bored of the game halfway through the video. Now I guess this just means these types of games are not for me, but I am curious what makes it appealing to others. What is fun about games like this and Uncharted?

Uncharted? I like the gunplay (it's way more open than some people give it credit for), the characters, the feeling of playing a great action movie, the humour and the MP. It looks pretty as well. Not sure about TR yet and I don't see myself buying it anytime soon. Busy with Fez and Metal Gear Rising at the moment.

 

[Dead]

Wow, stunning amount of great reviews. Can't wait to buy the game next week.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I always expected this game to be good for what it was.

The whole hoopla caused by a few bad PR statements was completely childish and blown incredibly far out of proportion. People decided right then and there to shit on the game from a great height, no matter how it actually looked or played.

Glad it's getting amazing reviews, must feel rather good to be a Crystal Dynamics employee right now.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I wasn't being serious, nor was I being serious with the post you commented on before, aside from the fact that I've never had an interest in this series up until this reboot.

I must apologize for my brain. Like Tomb Raider, it's not what it used to be.

 

[Revven]

Just watched the rev3 review and I was already bored of the game halfway through the video. Now I guess this just means these types of games are not for me, but I am curious what makes it appealing to others. What is fun about games like this and Uncharted?

For Uncharted, it's the experience/story (the story in UC1 and UC2 are excellent) and tight controls (you have a lot of freedom with Drake despite the linear levels). The puzzles are lite and easy but still kind of enjoyable. You really play it just for Drake and his story; gameplay just supports it and makes it fun to go through. It's pure fun, it knows what kind of game it is.

I can't speak for Tomb Raider though. Honestly, TR follows more along what other games are doing, not Uncharted specifically. It's a "checking boxes" game while Uncharted just did what it was known for since its inception: capturing the cinematic experience in a video game with enjoyable/solid gameplay and a nice story with great characters.

Uncharted at least deserves a try. I wouldn't suggest other games that bloat themselves with all these extraneous and arbitrary features. It really clouds or fogs up what's good about the game or for that matter, its identity.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Interesting. DmC also got surprisingly good scores and I enjoyed that game, might have to take some of these reviewes to heart and try it out.

 

[ASIS]

NIICE!!!!

Haters can eat their crow now

 

[daninthemix]

That sounds incredibly boring to me....

More boring than the endless waves of bad guys in Uncharted? I doubt it...

 

[teraMEL0S]

Yes! I am glad this turned out good. Very excited.

 

[antitrop]

More boring than the endless waves of bad guys in Uncharted? I doubt it...

What would you rather do instead of shoot them, then?

How do you create tension in Uncharted without well-armed, plentiful adversaries? It would have to be a completely different game.

 

[derFeef]

More boring than the endless waves of bad guys in Uncharted? I doubt it...

There is room for middle-ground.

 

[Knux-Future]

I think it's a fine day actually because this is the final nail in the coffin for long time fans so it's the best time to move on.The fanboys and the respectful "journalists" can finally have what they always wanted/cared about in this game:

Spoiler

Lara.

For the rest of us the level editor community is stronger than ever and i have a feeling that there will not be too long before a new IP comes out that embodies all the core elements of the series.
For the time being though we have games like Mirror's Edge 2 and Dark Souls 2 too look forward to.

I'm sorry but this makes you sound really pretentious.

I know it's not your intention but it reads like "let them have their shitty casual garbage, I'LL be playing real games"

Like why do you have to make it so you are superior? People have different tastes. Different needs and wants from their games. No need to put them down because they differ from you.

I know that's not what you meant but posts like this read really poorly.

.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

So did multiplayer hurt or help? I think it did neither, but I wonder if multiplayer was really good we'd see those 8 scores turn into 9s instead?

I had confidence it'd be really good. Probably could be my favorite single player of this gen. Better than Uncharted 3's single player and maybe on par with Uncharted 2.

Only CVG mentions the game length. Did any other review mention the game's length? I'm looking through them but I didn't see it.

 

[RoKKeR]

NIICE!!!!

Haters can eat their crow now

Review scores are just the beginning. Of course overall they help consumers judge the quality of a game, but the actual fan reaction can always be interesting and in quite a few cases, quite polarizing. (see above)

I'm not saying TR is a bad game by any stretch of the imagination, (how would I know?) but just because it gets great reviews doesn't mean it's a done deal.

 

[mxgt]

More boring than the endless waves of bad guys in Uncharted? I doubt it...

Well the automatic platforming and easy puzzles were boring as well

Uncharted games should have just been movies instead as the characters are the only enjoyable things about them.