pieatorium
Member
It really wouldn't, those games combined wouldn't have pushed an additional 2 million consoles (they are going to miss their new forecast by about .5 million aswell.)
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Media Create Sales: Week 11, 2013 (Mar 11 - Mar 17)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
It really wouldn't, those games combined wouldn't have pushed an additional 2 million consoles (they are going to miss their new forecast by about .5 million aswell.)
michaelius
Banned
As a side note Alien game cancellation probably has nothing in common with how Wii U is doing. That title was such a mess.
test_account
XP-39C²
Thanks for the infoWell on the interview they had with... Kotaku? I think? Or was it Polygon? Don't matter.
In that interview, they state that they're closely supervised by Japan, but are given freedom.
Basically there's these "Boundaries" for the characters which you cannot cross. They develop within those and try to expand those boundaries by trying things sometimes. If it's not good they're driven back on course from Japan (wether it be good or bad is a different issue).
So yes, while it's quite controlled, I do believe they have certain freedom. It's certainly not a Miyamoto developed game
I read that Miyamoto was overseeing the project, so he did have some envolvement in the game it seems. But i dont know if he made any specific decision for what was going to be developed. Sounds like a western/japanese developed game. Not that it matters much sales wise though, a good game is a good game regardless of where it is developed Hero of Legend
Member
So Sega's put up a teaser for PS3 and Vita.
I'm still scratching my head over the absolute lack of 3DS retail games from them, they're only doing 3D Classics at the moment.
I bet a Phantasy Star Portable 3rd/Victory on 3DS would be a huge hit for Sega, the MH fanbase has obviously moved to 3DS so why not have its arguably main competitor be there to reap the fanbase as it did on PSP before?
I'm still scratching my head over the absolute lack of 3DS retail games from them, they're only doing 3D Classics at the moment.
I bet a Phantasy Star Portable 3rd/Victory on 3DS would be a huge hit for Sega, the MH fanbase has obviously moved to 3DS so why not have its arguably main competitor be there to reap the fanbase as it did on PSP before?
frankie_baby
Member
Have we had new info?
michaelius
Banned
Clean state and 3 milions of really pissed of early adopters.
Hero of Legend
Member
Exterminieren
Banned
And then that turned out to be one of the top selling SKUs!
I've given up trying to figure out what Sega's doing.
michaelius
Banned
They released Sonic Racing recently and the next rumored Sonic game will be for all platforms.
Hero of Legend
Member
Sonic is (almost) always going to be on Nintendo platforms, I think the only recent ones to not were the Rivals series and '06.
But other than THAT?!
Shinobi and Crush 3D were GREAT starts western-wise, if only Griptonite were still around.
Lack of Square is moreso to me. Only had Theatrhythm, Kingdom Hearts, Bravely Default, and Dragon Quest so far.
pieatorium
Member
Square Japan haven't really released much on any platform (other than social/mobile) so thats a comparatively good list heh.
Hopefully once they get over this ff14 fixation they can get more games on anything.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
The delayed games alone weren't the issue, that's correct, and I think other problems weighed in far more (consumer confusion, bungled promotion, lack of 3rd party support outside launch, higher pricepoints vs PS360, lack of "Wii Sports", etc). I do think they'd have helped maintain more momentum coming out of 2012 though and confidence in the platform would be a whole lot better as a result.
And you think Nintendo's only going to ship 440k consoles in Q1? I'd think the US ZombiU, EU MH3U and JP DQX bundles alone would account for at least half that figure? They might miss the 4m target for sure, but I think you're also overestimating the degree here.
NCL always has oversight for all outsourced games (Japanese and western). I don't think that means they "co-developed" them though.Thanks for the info
Here a comparison with another March release that was released roughly after the same time after their respective system launched. KI:U 13 months after 3DS was launched and SS 15 months after PSVs launch.
One game part of a very popular genre multiplayer-hunting game the other a hybrid of a more niche hybrid between railshooter+action.
Kid Icarus: Uprising
1.week KI:U 132.526 / 132.526
3DS 94.011 | prelaunch 64.017
2nd week KI:U 47.179 / 179.705 (KH release)
3DS 121.921 | 94.011
3rd week KI:U 25.710 / 205.415
3DS 72.115 | 121.921
4th week KI:U 15.228 / 220.643
3DS 63.796 | 72.115
Soul Sacrifice
1st week SS (92.396 / 92.396) + (22.050 / 22.050)
63.581 | prelaunch(pricedrop) 62.543
2nd week SS 29.121 / 121.517 + 22.050+<5.000
36.028 | 63.581
One game part of a very popular genre multiplayer-hunting game the other a hybrid of a more niche hybrid between railshooter+action.
Kid Icarus: Uprising
1.week KI:U 132.526 / 132.526
3DS 94.011 | prelaunch 64.017
2nd week KI:U 47.179 / 179.705 (KH release)
3DS 121.921 | 94.011
3rd week KI:U 25.710 / 205.415
3DS 72.115 | 121.921
4th week KI:U 15.228 / 220.643
3DS 63.796 | 72.115
Soul Sacrifice
1st week SS (92.396 / 92.396) + (22.050 / 22.050)
63.581 | prelaunch(pricedrop) 62.543
2nd week SS 29.121 / 121.517 + 22.050+<5.000
36.028 | 63.581
Screamapillar
Member
I may overestimate the effect those games would have had on hardware sales, but I think you are underestimating. I'll meet you in the middle and say that those software releases would have allowed Wii U to beat the revised projection of 4 million Wii U's sold by about half a million.
Actually, up to now, Square Enix support has been pretty big on 3DS, with a FF and a DQ spinoffs, a main KH, two remakes of Dragon Quest (one of them being high budget), a brand new core IP. I mean, saying those brands and saying "only" is a little reductive to the support XD
It's true that now the only future release is Gyrozetter RPG, though I'm pretty sure there will be other titles coming from them on the platform soon (we know BD2 is basically confirmed, then other DQ titles will come, but I'm expecting something related to FF too).
About Sega, I'm expecting Sonic again and again this year: the classic Rush SKU of the heavily rumoured main title and the Mario&Sonic title. I don't know what else, they've also heavily reduced their retail output while increasing massively their digital one (and this is why we're seeing those 3DS Classics from them), but I hope they announce some other titles for the platform since 3DS deserve more support from them surely.
but how long? 2 more weeks? three?
Magicpaint
Member
That is a pretty good list?
Fixed.
Hero of Legend
Member
But they're releasing quite a few Vita retail games in JP, Miku, PSO2, this one (likely retail), and I must be forgetting one or two.
I wouldn't complain if we knew of some 3DS retail games from Sega that's not Sonic. Also sadly SASRT 3DS is dung.
The demo was okay but graphics were definitely missing polish.Screamapillar
Member
But they're releasing quite a few Vita retail games in JP, Miku, PSO2, this one (likely retail), and I must be forgetting one or two.
I wouldn't complain if we knew of some 3DS retail games from Sega that's not Sonic. Also sadly SASRT 3DS is dung.
edits: oops nvm
michaelius
Banned
What was sega releasing for NDS ? Because their Vita support looks like continuation of PSP titles.
Screamapillar
Member
Square and Sony are still buddy-buddy, but there's no denying that certain Square Enix properties sell extremely well on Nintendo handhelds, so 3DS is getting some love from them. An original Kingdom Hearts, Heroes of Ruin (I think Square published), major DQ releases, etc.
Sammy Samusu
Member
You did not.
How do you determine whether a platform 'deserves' support?
GhostTrick
Banned
Based on sales + the plateform itself. And considering how good 3DS is doing in Japan, it should get more support.
Same way other determine a console maker/publisher 'deserves' to fail?
Screamapillar
Member
3DS routinely makes up more than half of the entire Japanese game market on any given week. Only seems to make business sense to put your games on the most popular platform in Japan if you're a Japanese game developer.
pieatorium
Member
Japan LTD 820k (2 more weeks till end of reporting period)
US LTD 1008k (4 more weeks till end of reporting period)
EU 2012 430k (12 weeks till end of reporting period)
thats what we have as accountable sales
2.258 million
It's highly unlikely that EU sales are even close to US or Japan but lets be extremely generous and give the WiiU 170k for those 12 weeks and put the EU total at 600k. Lets be extremely generous again for japan and give them 60k for the last 2 weeks putting them at 880k. Again a generous US number of 80k for those last 4 weeks for a total of 1088k.
600
880
1088
=2568k units sold to consumers at fy end.
over 400k less units sold than their shipments at the end of December, who exactly is going to be accepting more shipments?
How many 'sales' before a platform qualifies as deserving support? What about new platforms? What if the demographic that is responsible for most of these 'sales' isn't the demographic you're targeting?
What does 'the platform itself' mean? Surely the 3DS platform is the least appealing platform on the market, unless your game idea specifically needs two screens?
I don't see how any platform inherently 'deserves' support over any other.
If everyone did that, the competition would be extremely high and many titles would go unnoticed. It also doesn't sound like a healthy environment for new platforms.
GhostTrick
Banned
I dont remember someone saying it deserves more support than any other plateform. This is just pure defensive attitude.
We just said it deserve more support from SEGA than they're giving it, considering it's an healthy plateform.
Also, about demographics, I think they're nearly all on 3DS. Except if you're implying "only kids", then you're totally wrong.
Also, you can't call 3DS the least appealing plateform in the market when it sold more than 10M in 2 years in Japan.
Also, the plateform itself means 3DS is competent enough to make games SEGA would want to do.
Which lead to me asking how one determines which platforms 'deserve' support.
If I was making a game targeting boob lovers, would I put it on 3DS or Vita?
Edit: PS4 is the correct answer. Photorealistic boobs.
That doesn't necessarily make it attractive to develop games on. See the Wii for another example.
GhostTrick
Banned
ragincajun77
Banned
Didn't KI:U launch worldwide, while SS has only been released in Japan? Or, are those just Japan numbers?
Even if it effects the artistic integrity of the dev's, the wallet comes first for most. That's the way it goes. Gamers seem to treat the game industry differently to others. I'm not point to you, just in general. They make all of this stuff to make money.
A bigger user-base can help, but isn't definitive. It can have a bad effect as well, such as having to compete with Nintendo's own titles, which own every other game in the entire industry combined in sales pretty much. Its all a bit shaky depending on a lot of factors such as region, developer, budget, demographic, user base etc.
These are Media Create (Japan only) numbers.
It isn't that simple though. If it was, everyone would develop solely for smartphones and PCs.
Precisely. It comes down to a combination of factors and the goal is always to make money. The 3DS might seem like a no-brainer, but in reality that isn't necessarily the case. There will be a method to SEGAs apparent madness.
If you're comparing the 3DS to the Wii in terms of demographics, you're entirely delusional, my friend. The 3DS is much more similar to the DS in that regard, with a slightly more "hardcore" skew.
Somewhere halfway between a DS and a PSP, I think.
shinra-bansho
Member
Not remotely plausible.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Launch aligned for ~25 months:
Nintendo DS
-Feel the Magic XY-XX
-Puyo Puyo Fever!
-The Rub Rabbits
-Sonic Rush
-Kouchuu Ouja Mushi King: Greatest Champion e no Michi DS
-Super Monkey Ball: Touch & Roll
-Puyo Puyo Fever! 2
-Sega Casino
-Bleach! The Blade of Fate
-Doraemon: Nobita no Kyouryuu 2006 DS
-Jissen Pachi-Slot Hisshouhou! DS: Aladdin II Evolution
-Kouchuu Ouja Mushi King: Greatest Champion e no Michi 2
-Jissen Pachi-Slot Hisshouhou! Hokuto no Ken SE DS
-Mind Quiz: Your Brain Coach
-Charlotte's Web
-Oshare Majo Love and Berry: DS Collection
-Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer
-Puyo Puyo!! 15th Anniversary
Nintendo 3DS
-Super Monkey Ball 3D
-Thor: God of Thunder
-Captain America: Super Soldier
-Shinobi
-Sonic Generations
-Puyo Puyo!! 20th Anniversary
-Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games
-Crush3D
-Rhythm Thief and the Emperor's Treasure
-Hatsune Miku & Future Stars: Project Mirai
-3D Space Harrier
-Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
-3D Super Hang-On
Launch aligned for ~15 months:
PSP
-Puyo Puyo Fever!
-Virtua Tennis: World Tour
-Mind Quiz
-Puyo Puyo Fever! 2
-Initial D: Street Stage
-Sakura Taisen 1 & 2
-Jissen Pachi-Slot Hisshouhou! Portable: Aladdin II Evolution
PS Vita
-Virtua Tennis 4: World Tour Edition
-Samurai & Dragons
-Super Monkey Ball: Banana Splitz
-Hatsune Miku: Project Diva f
-Jet Set Radio
-Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
-Phantasy Star Online 2
Launch aligned for ~5 months:
Wii
-Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz
-Bleach! Shattered Blade
-Sonic & the Secret Rings
Wii U
-Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
-The Cave
You implied third party software on 3DS might not perform well, as was often the case on the Wii. No triggers to speak of, simply calling out an obvious falsehood. They are very different platforms.
Remember, we're still talking about why SEGA hasn't supported 3DS very strongly. It's not a question of being unable to develop software which will be successful on this platform, but rather an unwillingness on their part to do so.
I mentioned the Wii because it's another piece of hardware that had a clear lead in terms of install base over its competitors. A lead so large that one would expect 'most' third party development to target that platform if install base was the deciding factor in gaining support.
They've supported it fairly well so far, going by the list above. That said, my objection was to the notion that SEGA were somehow 'obligated' to support the platform just because it has a large install base. That just isn't how it works.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Shipped =/= Sold
I think you shouldn't hold so close to sellthrough; channel inventories, restocks and logistics almost always run anywhere from 500k to 2m over that for hardware. The only time it doesn't is when a platform is supply constrained. And also, I think it's clear Nintendo's been introducing early bundles to help push extra shipments. I doubt the US ZombiU bundle would've happened if not for Wii U falling off a cliff in January for example.
To draw a comparison, PS3 had 700k in unsold stock between the US and Japan at the end of Q1 2007 iirc (up from 500k unsold stock at the end of 2006). Nintendo's definitely had a rougher time with Q1 momentum than PS3 comparatively, but their Q1 target is also much lower than what PS3 moved it's Q1 (940k to 1.56m). And while I don't think they'll necessairly hit that, I also don't expect them to do less than half of the projection.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Thanks for that. Would be nice if one of them had ~90% of the market covered like gfk. Don't really know which tracker to trust when discrepancies are that high. The DS is just as old as the PSP and the difference between the two trackers on it is pretty negligible. So I guess we can, eventually, expect these numbers to be more in line with each other?
Father_Brain
Banned
Tangent from the Sega question, but:
Installed base tends not to be the deciding factor, so much as expected installed base.
Third parties incorrectly expected PS3 to be the leading platform this gen, correctly expected 3DS to be the dominant handheld, and currently expect (almost certainly correctly) PS4/Durango to be the market-leading platforms this gen, all of which is or will be reflected in the support announced for those platforms before launch.
shinra-bansho
Member
The Zombi U bundle sold 7K units in February. I wouldn't count on that pushing up shipments whatsoever.
That being said, at the current rate of sales, the whole of Japan and the US could receive enough supply through to May on a couple hundred thousand units. And retailer confidence is presumably low.
I have little doubt they'll miss their 4M target. They'll still probably hit about 3.5M at least.
Some retailers are bound to have needed some more stock during the past 3 months, albeit in small quantities, even if others are presumably sitting on plentiful supply that they can't get rid of.
That being said, at the current rate of sales, the whole of Japan and the US could receive enough supply through to May on a couple hundred thousand units. And retailer confidence is presumably low.
I have little doubt they'll miss their 4M target. They'll still probably hit about 3.5M at least.