Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Guys he's literally just arguing to get a reaction out of you, the only way to win is to stop responding.
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US Soccer Referee Dies After Punch
- Thread starter s7evn
- Start date
- Status
That sentence almost sounds like torture and thats a whole different can of worms. In many many cases though, an accident will be treated as such and the person won't see a lot of prison time (in comparison to average life span, I think 10 years in prison is a lot but not in that comparison). There are very few states where the law doesn't provide for these accident type situations and in most cases intent can't just be implied.
I think maybe someone on the first page said he needs a life sentence. I think the majority of posters just thinks he needs to be punished somewhat but not a life sentence. At this point, I'm not sure why there is any arguing going on. It just seems like Sorian feels the need to counter any post thus this thread keeps on trucking...
I dunno, because two of those points might be relevant towards temperance if not the smallest bit of leniency.
I know but after a while, it gets to be like arguing with youtube comments. Even the commenters knew they were being kneejerk and unreasonable and bombastic, and they don't seem to be sticking around to defend or support their stances.
This is a post from a little over an hour ago on the last page.
I don't really know why people think I am trolling. I just find it annoying when people call for this kids head for no real reason and I want to respond to that.
Space Avocat
Member
Yep. Just pointing out that a prosecutor could try to use that ambiguity in his favor. Where would you stand if the soccer player knew that he threw weak punches so he put on a pair brass knuckles? The risk of causing death increases, but it is still really low and the death is still an "accident". It becomes a policy question of where you want to draw the line and it seems like a few people in here are fine with drawing it pretty early.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
only one punch? they should have put him into boxing instead of soccer.
what it comes down to is this kid killed someone, why would anyone want to give mercy to him?
what it comes down to is this kid killed someone, why would anyone want to give mercy to him?
It's a fair point but, of course, the prosecuter is going to go far in favor of his/her direction and the attorney will go far in favor of his/her direction and hopefully they meet in the middle where the truth is. I know it was more of a rhetorical question but once you start getting in brass knuckles and other weapons then it can really start to hover away from accident because now there is more cause for concern from pre-meditation and all of that.
thatdamnmook
Member
You've obviously never seen a British University Rugby team on a night out...
I can confidently say I will never kill someone over getting called for a foul in a sport.
Its not much different in real-life.
For instance, I had this roommate a while back and he was a bit of a drunk. One night me and my girlfriend come in and he's being obnoxiously drunk and starts to talk crap to my girl right in front of me. I tell him to shut the fuck up, but he's beyond reasoning with at this point. After saying something like, "She's just your fuck for the month why do you care?" or something like that I went over and decked him. It was not my intention to cause him any severe injury nor kill him or anything like that. Not saying it was right, but its not correct to say that anytime somebody punches somebody its to try and fuck them up or something.
In this situation, anger probably just got the better of this kid. I fully expect he'll get voluntary manslaughter charges, and thats deserved, but I think a lot of people are overreacting about the severity of a punches 'intent' or 'meaning'.
heliosRAzi
Banned
No, you should be ashamed of yourself for nearly killing him. You should have went to jail for attempted murder.
Well thats kinda the point here. The way the situation turned out for me is the way it normally happens. At worst, I'd have been looking at an assault charge.
This kid really just hit the bad-luck lottery. He's still responsible, dont get me wrong, but I feel bad for him in a way, too. Somebody dying from a single punch is extremely rare and this 17 year old has gone from what is usually a minor lashing out of anger into ending somebody's life.
Its a fairly tragic situation in more ways than one.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I completely agree with you. It was just an all-around sad situation. I just find it perplexing that there are people who want to send him to prison for life or until his 40. He should be punished and he should be forced into anger management classes. What will most likely happen is that he'll plead out to a lesser charge and probably not even have to go to prison or only go for a short amount of time. It depends on how acts and the amount of work the DA wants to put into this.
Ok but isn't there a chance? Obviously the kid wasn't trying to kill anyone.
Calling a part time soccer ref an authority figure is a bit much no? Look don't get me wrong the kid should go to jail, but he was NOT intending to seriously injure or kill anyone here. He would've shot or stabbed or choked the guy, not punched him out of anger.
This is ridiculous, again punches happen all the time. I agree sucker punches are more rare, but they happen every day and not as an attempt on somebodies life. BTW sucker punches, cheap shots, etc. happen every day in sports. Do you think a batter at the plate when a pitcher is head hunting can be prepared for a 99 MPH fastball? Pedro always used to go at the head.
CornBurrito
Member
What a tragic accident.
The kid doesn't seem to have intended to kill the guy. He does need some form of anger management, or something to help him learn impulse control. I don't really think a life sentence is the best thing for society. Or even a long prison sentence, given that our prison system is terrible at actual rehabilitation.
The kid doesn't seem to have intended to kill the guy. He does need some form of anger management, or something to help him learn impulse control. I don't really think a life sentence is the best thing for society. Or even a long prison sentence, given that our prison system is terrible at actual rehabilitation.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
The kid ruined a family because he got mad.Deserves a severe punishment.
He should be, his actions killed a person. This scumbag kid can be let out of prison when the coach's family can have him back.
If you were playing catch with a friend, hit him in the head with the ball, which knocked him back into some brick landscaping and it killed him, would you think that you should be locked up for your entire life?
I'm assuming your response will be something like,
"Oh well, I had no intention of hurting him or anything, its different."
In which case, you'll just have proven that 'intent' makes a world of difference. Which is why in the US, there's a very big difference between 'manslaughter' and 'murder' charges.
Thank god people like you have no say in anything.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
Wow.
There is an incredibly lack of understanding of how the justice system works in this thread.
metalslimer
Member
smh, I'm glad people like you don't have anything to do with our legal system
heliosRAzi
Banned
What do you think he should be charged with?
It's my belief that the justice system is a joke as it is.
CornBurrito
Member
The point of a life sentence, in my opinion, is an alternative to the death penalty. To remove people who cannot be rehabilitated.
It is clear you disagree and think the main role of the justice system should be to dole out punishment and slake our bloodlusts.
Indeed. The justice system right now is a joke, at least in the US.
We focus too much on punishment, rather than rehabilitation. And our recidivism rates are fuck awful because of it.
The Nordic countries are far better.
You sure that was supposed to be addressed to me?
Manslaughter is basically 'accidental death'.
There's involuntary manslaughter, which is completely accidental and zero intent to harm. For example, a car accident that results in somebody's death.
And then there's voluntary manslaughter, which involves an intent to harm, but not to kill. The end result of a death is ultimately an accident. Thats what this situation involves.
Murder charges involve intent to kill. Are you sure you know what you're talking about?
We don't focus enough on punishment. We let the worst criminals go free all the time. Murderers and Rapists should never, ever be released back into society. The only people that deserve to be rehabilitated are those that didn't ruin people's lives.
What a vague statement.
Ok saw your edit - this isn't a murderer, so yea, that doesn't apply.
He killed a person. He's a murderer as far as I'm concerned.
CornBurrito
Member
I'm interested in what is best for society, rather than what is best for slaking my own desire for revenge.
Punishment satisfies our desire for revenge, while rehabilitation is far more beneficial for society. The US takes prisoners and turns them into barely functional subhumans who are likely to commit crime once again. The Nordic countries treat their prisoners as humans and focus on rehabilitation, and turn criminals into functioning and productive members of society.
I know my preference, from a utilitarian standpoint.
The problem is we release those subhumans back into society. Simply don't release them and the system is fine. Someone who's done something terrible shouldn't be released anyway.
CornBurrito
Member
Why are Nordic countries doing so well then? Their recidivism rates are low, and they release these people back into society.
And the kid is not subhuman. He accidentally killed someone. He had no intent of killing.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I agree with all of this.
You are the most short-sighted person I have seen in this thread, congratulations. At the end of the day, the kid still isn't a murderer or a killer. Accidents happen and this was one of them. The point of the justice system isn't too appease the family or anyone else involved in the crime. It is to dole out an appropriate punishment for what occured. This was someone who had intent to harm but not to kill who did something that 99% of the time does harm and not death. This is voluntary manslaughter, not a life sentence, not a death penalty, and not whatever otehr bullshit you want to spout.
CornBurrito
Member
By the way Valnen, the prison system in the US makes even petty criminals more likely to repeat crime, or move to worse crimes. Would you advocate a life sentence for ALL crimes? You think that would be the best solution for the prison system?
EleventhDoctor
Banned
Sure I concur. But I think people are being sympathetic towards the kid because somehow they identify with having a temper and wanting to act out on it. There is a victim involved here, and a family that is now suffering both emotionally and most likely financially because of the rage of a young man. His family I would assume takes little solace in the fact that "most punches don't kill people". Their pain must be incredible right now, and people bending over backwards to lessen the impact of this CRIME is really astounding to me. Sadly tragedies like these happen everyday across the world, and aren't being scrutinized to a level like this one is. This is unfortanately something that bothers me in the legal system. We spend so much time, money and effort to try to rehabilitate the criminals and wrong doers-and the victims are often marginalized. Sorry, but I emphasize with the family way too much here. Maybe I'm older than most of the GAFfers here, but I identify with the coach here-I try to imagine my wife and daughter trying to come to terms with my senseless death and trying to deal with the ramifications of that-while at the same time, the individual that in a rage, stripped that child's father from her, for the rest of their life...is somehow being protected, and their actions somewhat justified ("he's young, he didn't intend to kill him, just severely hurt him"). Those rationalizations would make the victims family suffer more than they already are. They deserve justice, period. It won't bring the father back-but the fact that justice was served could at least ease their minds a bit more.
heliosRAzi
Banned
So to hell with the 8th Amendment, right?
Corn, I heard you have a parking ticket. I hate to do this but I'm gonna have to lock you away forever. At this point, you are subhuman.
No one is defending anything. I doubt anyone cares about this kid in particular - athlete or not. Simply, people disagree that he deserves life for unintentionally killing a man.
metalslimer
Member
Jesus.... might as well kill them while we're at it. Eye for an eye and all. I mean if they aren't going to be released why even burden ourselves with the costs amirite?
CornBurrito
Member
I disagree. I think society benefits far more from rehabilitating criminals.
Letting the victims decide the punishment is awful. A life sentence or a sentence to the guillotines won't bring the dead back. At best it allows for barbarism to enter our justice system.
It is far more moral and beneficial for society to turn a criminal into a productive member of society. You're not going to bring back the dead, and you're only going to ruin another life by introducing life sentences for manslaughter cases.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
I think a good punishment would be to have him serve 5-10 years in jail and pay the victims family $1000 a month for the rest of his life.
All kinds out today on GAF lol
EleventhDoctor
Banned
A "Life sentence" is around 20-25 years in the US. There are some people suggesting he should serve a year or two and attend anger management counseling at the most.
He's about as much of a killer or murderer as a DUI w/ serious bodily injury that results in a death. In Florida, you'd get about 4 years for something like that. Is that fair to you?
Yes, let's cripple this kid's life more than it already is over an accident. He's already going to have no luck finding work once all this is over since he will always have a felony.
CornBurrito
Member
If you spend 20-25 years in prison you're not functioning in regular society after you get out.
metalslimer
Member
He won't be able to get a good job after this. He won't be able to pay that fine. He'll likely turn to crime to try and pay that or just end up back in jail for not being able to.
The latter is a lot more reasonable than the former I'm sorry.
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