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Edge #256: Why PS4 is your next console (Shots fired, post-DRM 180)
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
You are wasting your energy thinking you will have a debate, he has a huge anti MS bias that he openly admits.
Moneyhats2k5
Member
That's exactly how I look at things. I was going to post something similar before I read your post.
I don't care who wins the launch line up list war because the launch window does not matter to me. What matters to me is what I can expect for the rest of the ~7 year life cycle of the console and Sony checked all my boxes with their PS3 exclusives.
I don't expect this to suddenly change with the PS4.
Compared to what? The XB1? I'd say that is an entirely subjective measuring stick in terms of how interested you are in the announced titles, and massively skewed in Sony's favor if you stack the pedigree of developers against one another. Claiming one lineup is better than the other simply because of the IPs involved seems like a myopic way to view software.
Except the whole AMD's own numbers thing. I'm sure that 50% GPU horsepower edge will just disappear though. Secret sauce and all that.
I didn't realize releasing the first universally day one digital, indie self publishing console was a conservative choice. Funny. I thought the entire reason MS was claiming DRM was necessary was to implement similar features to what Sony is doing while still letting us own physical discs.
Because developers proved last generation beyond a shadow of a doubt that Kinect is the way of the future right?
Sony has had camera tech with their systems for two generations now, going into their third. MS is going into their second. No one has delivered a meaningful core experience with it yet. Why continue to believe this will somehow change? And until it does I don't quite see why we should be subsidizing every unit having one, under the alleged promise that universal ownership of a peripheral results in exciting new uses for it. Go ask Nintendo how well that's worked out with the Wii U tablet.
It'd EDGE's job as an enthusiast magazine to assess what they think their customers would prefer and make the argument for it. It doesn't seem far fetched at all that the article within the magazine backs up the cover they've chosen, does it? I mean, the facts are out there to make a a pretty strong pro-PS4 argument, I'd imagine anyone can see that.
Its only sensationalism if the reporting inside doesn't corroborate their claims on the cover.
Wtf kinda comparison is that, nobody has played titanfall, it could be great or it could be crap. The level of discussion is quickly spiralling down here.
I personally care about the launch lineup because in a year's time I will almost certainly own both.
In my case one of my favorite games was infamous so I still give the nod to Sony
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Probably. I thought differently, but I guess I was wrong since Microsoft wouldn't have abandoned their new policies had they shared that opinion. There were hugely interesting things happening behind the closed doors, both at Sony and Microsoft, that we'll probably never be privy to, which is a shame.
I've never tried to hide that I much prefer Microsoft's franchises, the kinds of third party games that they managed to attract to Xbox 360, and their overall vision for the future of gaming and entertainment in general. That still holds, although there have been some reversals (XBLA was one of my favorite things last gen, and Sony seems to have taken the initiative in that segment lately), and nothing is set in stone.
I don't think that the hardcore segment doesn't matter in the grand scheme of sales, it has its importance, but it's not the be all and end all in that regard, even at launch. It's also worth noting that hardcore gamers are not a homogenous body - after all, I belong to that segment as well - and the loudest part of that group is not always the largest. If we limit ourselves on GAF, just to illustrate the point with data we're all well acquainted with, it's no secret that the popular opinion here has often been proven very wrong when it comes to gauging success of certain products, even those aimed squarely at the hardcore segment.
I fail to see how pointing out the preference shift has nothing to do with the statements on the issue's cover. They say matter-of-factly that PS4 is our only choice and that it's our next console, ignoring the fact that the increasing number of Edge's potential readers are looking elsewhere for their first next gen fix. Of course those statements are literally wrong, since not everyone was ever going to buy a PS4, but if sales of Xbox One and Xbox One core-aimed software prove to be good, the whole point Edge was trying to make (again, talking only about the cover statements) won't stand, making them look foolish.
That's not condemning Edge because they're favoring one platform over the other, but because they're making a rash decision. Still, as I said, they obviously think the increase in readership is a good tradeoff and that's fair enough.
MS shuttered multiple studios last generation, didn't open any to replace them, and are now suddenly in a mad scramble to open studios and push out early XB1 titles.
Investing strongly on the doorstep of a new generation isn't a commitment to first party software. Expanding your first party studios and supporting the console you have out with major new titles through the launch of your new console is a commitment to first party software.
Case in point: I don't know who the hell even works at Black Tusk so why would I have any interest in a game they're making? I'm not eagerly anticipating the next game from Nihilistic and they've at least made something before.
Meanwhile I know what Naughty Dog brings to the table. I know what Sucker Punch brings to the table. I know what Guerrilla Games is capable of. I know that at worst Sony has damn near a dozen very strong first party studios that turn out at least "good" games, with several of them more than capable of hitting a home run every time up to the plate.
MS could have had something like that, if they gave a shit about first party development. Instead they let Bungie walk because they just wanted a Halo cow to milk (and now have one with 343 apparently). They sunk the PGR franchise by not picking up Bizarre Creations once they were outside the X360's launch window. Shut down FASA and let Weismann take the IPs with him. Doomed Crackdown to irrelevance when they chose not to sign Realtime Worlds up for a multi-game commitment. Have had a massive talent exodus from Rare because they've changed corporate culture and restricted their freedom to create. Had a similarly massive talent exodus from Lionhead while face-stabbing the Fable brand with a mediocre 3rd game followed by a shitty Kinect spin off.
I could go on. Suffice to say these are not the actions of someone looking to build a strong first party division. Lip service and random dollar amounts thrown at the problem on the cusp of a new generation isn't enough to bait me in. Show the love all generation long if you want to claim a commitment to first party software.
Manmademan
Member
It's a joke, referring back to Major Nelson saying "But have you seen TITANFALL?" in response to criticism over xbox hardware and DRM. It's practically a meme here by now.
No problem with someone believing that, it's the way some have treated it as an apparent fact that EDGE overlooked in order to favor the PS4 that gets a negative reaction.
plagiarize
Banned
Imagine if car magazines weren't allowed to recommend one car over another?
Being objective doesn't mean that you don't have an opinion, it's just that you try to make your opinion unbiased. 'Why PS4 is Your Next Console' suggests that we're going to see an article detailing why Edge believe that you should buy the PS4 over the Xbox One.
I don't see what the hell there is to get upset about.
Being objective doesn't mean that you don't have an opinion, it's just that you try to make your opinion unbiased. 'Why PS4 is Your Next Console' suggests that we're going to see an article detailing why Edge believe that you should buy the PS4 over the Xbox One.
I don't see what the hell there is to get upset about.
Of course, if you plan to get both consoles, then the launch line up should definitely be a major factor when deciding which of the two to get on day one.
Since I'm going PS4 only, I was only considering the long term plan.
Pseudo judo
Member
It's a "joke" that those who lack humor or imagination still use. It was old after a week.
travisbickle
Member
I don't think it's been published yet?
So, yeah this is a 20+ page thread about a front cover.
The mag comes out tomorrow. Presumably the idea is that people buy it, but I'm sure someone will post it up then. As you say, would be good to have in the OP.
lol. I thought there was already something substantial considering it is a 40 page thread (50 a page yo). My bad. Thanks.
Just people being mad about EDGE publishing a magazine with a cover that represents the general sentiment.
qa_engineer
Member
Because that's purely based on ones preferences and opinions. How hard is that to understand? Just because you like ryse and forza doesn't mean everyone else does. Common sense. Maybe I think infamous second son and the order 1866 will blow the doors off anything MS have to offer, what's so hard to believe about that?
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Most of which are timed =p (see: titanfall on ps4 not out of the question)
and MS's "true" exclusives are nothing to brag about
ChorusLindarr
Banned
Excellent post I must add. Very much agree.
MS hasn't done much if anything to instil confidence in their first party efforts outside of Turn10's Forza games, and 323i's Halos. For someone not interested in Forza or Halo, MS has a lot to prove in the coming gen with its internal studios, and announcements about x number of unnamed projects (which could be Kinect crap for all we know) and nebulous claims about dollars invested doesn't suddenly mean that every one of their studios will suddenly go from never having made a meaningful game to making multimillion selling hits.
Unfortunately for MS their standard strategy of throwing money at a problem until it fixes itself won't work in games development. It isn't as easy as just gathering a bunch of people together, throwing money at them, and telling them they need to make a hit or else they're all fired. There have been countless studios this gen, whom have formed with a long list of notable big names from across the industry, and have ended up putting out steaming turkeys and getting their doors shuttered. It takes investment, time, effort, the right people, the right experience, the right management and the right culture for a studio to rise to the caliber of devs like Rockstar and Naughty Dog. Most of the biggest name devs have been running for decades. So its naive to think that some newly formed, never made a AAA game before at all, studios would suddenly start producing games that achieve >90% aggregate review scores. It's just doesn't happen that often at all.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I agree with what you are saying.
My point was that, at least for the start of the coming generation, it seems they have realized their mistake, but whether they will keep it up or not is anyone's guess.
I don't find that incompatible with what you are saying
The exclusives situation can basically be summed up as this for people that eventually plan on owning both consoles:
The exclusives (which ever system's) will ALWAYS be there throughout the gen. And as the gen goes on will become GH/PH and be available at great prices and probably in GOTY editions. Exclusives are a great reason to buy a console.
But if you are eventually going to buy both consoles regardless wouldn't it make sense to buy the less expensive and more powerful one at the start of the gen? The one where all multi-plat games will look better (whether a lot or barely at all or anything in between)? Wouldn't it make more sense to buy the more expensive and less powerful unit for exclusive down the road when both the system and those games see price drops?
And if you are planning on only buying one system for the ENTIRE generation and making that decision based on what you saw at E3 before the generation even starts... Lol. You are a fanboy. Because the only INTELLIGENT way to do that is at least a few years into the generation with software libraries and platform directions clearly established and able to be compared. Not 5 months before the systems are even released.
The exclusives (which ever system's) will ALWAYS be there throughout the gen. And as the gen goes on will become GH/PH and be available at great prices and probably in GOTY editions. Exclusives are a great reason to buy a console.
But if you are eventually going to buy both consoles regardless wouldn't it make sense to buy the less expensive and more powerful one at the start of the gen? The one where all multi-plat games will look better (whether a lot or barely at all or anything in between)? Wouldn't it make more sense to buy the more expensive and less powerful unit for exclusive down the road when both the system and those games see price drops?
And if you are planning on only buying one system for the ENTIRE generation and making that decision based on what you saw at E3 before the generation even starts... Lol. You are a fanboy. Because the only INTELLIGENT way to do that is at least a few years into the generation with software libraries and platform directions clearly established and able to be compared. Not 5 months before the systems are even released.
Ken Masters
Banned
Are they going to retract this story after MS changed it's DRM policy?
I'll be amazed if the EDGE article doesn't take this into account, just looking at Microsoft's X1 unveil and the subsequent U turn isn't looking at the bigger picture in the grand scheme of things.
The onus is on Microsoft to be the trailblazer with the interface, just like Nintendo is for their interfaces with the Wii for example and be hopeful that the third party follow in their footsteps, if the best they can come up with is voice commands, Kinect Sport and Drivatar as an example for the cloud, then what example is a third party who more often than not plays it safe going to do?
The bigger irony is that you would most likely see something inventive from an indie dev, who'd have to jump through hoops to even work on the system, plus them locking out the hobbyists on the PC shows that the potential in Kinect is getting smothered into nothingness for people who would think outside the box.
The fact this this is a POST 180 article is in the THREAD TITLE.
Ken Masters
Banned
oops, dumb me
Buying consoles based off exclusives launch titles isn't an issue if you are indeed planning on buying both consoles anyways. But at this point, it seems like Sony is prepared to wipe the floor with exclsuives, espeically since:
1) Both consoles are launching at the same time now
2) The first party have had the advantage in terms of development time and the PS4 is more flexible snd easy to develop compared to the PS3
3) Most of Sony's big first party studios have grown to two development teams and they are pumping out great ganes
If you are more likely to roll with one console for this gen and buying a 2nd console is a maybe, then by far the PS4 is the one to roll with. We've seen history with what happened with the PS2 and PS3.. Are you really going to just ignore that and just have game envy the rest of the gen?
I mean seriously people, I've said this many times in past posts, but do you understand how stupid it is to pick your potential console for the gen based off of launch titles? Think about that for a minute..
Microsoft needs a few fresh new, quality exclusives to show gamers why it's worth it not to miss out. Kinect and TV features aren't enough to do it.
1) Both consoles are launching at the same time now
2) The first party have had the advantage in terms of development time and the PS4 is more flexible snd easy to develop compared to the PS3
3) Most of Sony's big first party studios have grown to two development teams and they are pumping out great ganes
If you are more likely to roll with one console for this gen and buying a 2nd console is a maybe, then by far the PS4 is the one to roll with. We've seen history with what happened with the PS2 and PS3.. Are you really going to just ignore that and just have game envy the rest of the gen?
I mean seriously people, I've said this many times in past posts, but do you understand how stupid it is to pick your potential console for the gen based off of launch titles? Think about that for a minute..
Microsoft needs a few fresh new, quality exclusives to show gamers why it's worth it not to miss out. Kinect and TV features aren't enough to do it.
Because we know so very little about their timing to use them as reasons to buy the Xbox One at launch. We know for instance the PlayStation 4 will launch with Knack, Killzone and Drive CLub with the possible addition of DC Universe Online and PlanetSide 2. Microsoft has only confirmed Dead Rising 3 and Forza with the possibility of Ryse as a third game.
You are only partially correct. Usually with new technologies the manufacturer will be the trailblazer, but with working side by side with a third party. Think Dance Central for Kinect or Nintendo in the early days of the Wii. It really isn't a good investment for EITHER company to take on the financial investment alone.
The problem today is that virtually all games MUST be multi-platform to recoup costs. This means it is near impossible to put an amazing Kinect or Gamepad feature in a game that changes the game fundamentally while having to compensate on other platforms.
A great example of this is Resident Evil 4. Truly a masterpiece. And the Wii version I would argue was revolutionary for consoles. But with all things bein equal, because the gameplay was not designed for the Wii from the ground up, difficulty by default dropped and some truly challenging areas of the game became trivial.
So that is the Kinect/Gamepad/Move problem. With tight integration for core gameplay, you stand the likely chance of imbalance or serious deficiencies. And with platform exclusive games, it's not feasible for either party to take on the cost and development themselves for new ways to integrate the technology. It will always be partnerships.. Like again Dance Central and stuff.
The problem today is that virtually all games MUST be multi-platform to recoup costs. This means it is near impossible to put an amazing Kinect or Gamepad feature in a game that changes the game fundamentally while having to compensate on other platforms.
A great example of this is Resident Evil 4. Truly a masterpiece. And the Wii version I would argue was revolutionary for consoles. But with all things bein equal, because the gameplay was not designed for the Wii from the ground up, difficulty by default dropped and some truly challenging areas of the game became trivial.
So that is the Kinect/Gamepad/Move problem. With tight integration for core gameplay, you stand the likely chance of imbalance or serious deficiencies. And with platform exclusive games, it's not feasible for either party to take on the cost and development themselves for new ways to integrate the technology. It will always be partnerships.. Like again Dance Central and stuff.
Ubisoft used to do this brilliantly with Splinter Cell, okay granted it was Xbox exclusive for 6 months or a year or something but the Gamecube version made use of having the Gameboy as a pretty nifty radar with some remote controlled gadgets.
It's a shame that ubisoft aren't quite at that level again, but they do occasionally throw a bone like having Assassin's Creed III content unlocked for playing AssCreed Liberation on the Vita.
Nothing. Everyone knows that bias comes and goes even on a weekly schedule. A magazine or website can have a 'well known bias' one week that turns into 'obvious accuracy' the next week if they print good stories about your fave. Also bias and accuracy are non-commutative: you can add together bias over time to paint a picture of extreme bias, but you can't include counter-evidence in that to balance the picture out.
Good post buddy, with very valid points. MS has a lot to prove in the coming generation. Something I'm sure is a possibility depending on their leadership and priorities. Sony made a huge turnaround since launching the PS3, it's been done before. With what we've heard there are many games in the pipeline so we could be facing the first generation where Sony and MS are even in first party quality. But as it stands Sony is the clear winner, by a fair distance too.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
They are arguing that EDGE used to be biased towards the PS3. It's no that difficult to understand really. This is what makes the EDGE cover remarkable.
Used to be, right!
Now that they've done something pro-Sony they are no longer biased.
Gotcha!
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Who even says EDGE is biased?
Does this work in this manner when a sports magazine criticizes a rival team?
EDGE has earned a reputable image for a reason.
If it doesn't vibe with yours then too bad.
hokagespit
Member
Great post, and that's precisely the reason why I won't bite this time around. They have this whole generation to make me a believer, but they won't fool me with beginning of a generation fireworks.
makingmusic476
Member
So much THIS.
I'd never had much interest in owning an Xbox console, but Microsoft was seriously drawing me in around 2007-2008. They had the deal with Mistwalker, and Banjo & Kazooie looked like a whole heap of fun. The thought of some of my favorite PC developers (Ensemble and FASA) working on the console was also very attractive.
Microsoft's decisions since then have done nothing but turn me off, with this whole PR debacle being the icing on the cake. Ensemble and FASA dead, Mistwalker working with Nintendo, and Rare working solely with Kinect have made me lose interest in their line up, and all these new studios with unannounced IPs obviously don't make up for that.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
A bias isn't an all or nothing situation, it's just an imbalance of views over a given time. You could be right in that this may just be the small percent of none biased that emerges occasionally, BUT the cover is extraordinary nevertheless. It is the same as Polygon (you know, the site that gave TLOU 7.5), when they were less than kind about MSs DRM.
What makes this so remarkable is that it's laying out their stalls very early. We could be looking at a change of bias in favour of Sony (as opposed to not 'for' Sony). That's not the same as a biased towards another console by the way. That would be fanboyism. Just because you love something doesn't mean you automatically have to hate something else and visa versa.
demosthenes
Member
Wrapped up a lot of what I was feeling in a great post.
But the cover doesn't criticize a rival team. What it does is overly promoting one team.
To me this comes of as fanboyish.
CouldBeWorse
Member
I'm not sure if they closed as many studios as Sony did. Everyone was hit hard
I completely agree. I hope that this investment is an investment that keeps giving instead of a one-time investment.
I didn't know what Rocksteady brought to the table before Arkham. Naughty Dog made really shitty 3DO games before Crash. Past history or lack of history doesn't always directly correlate with future quality. Insomniac made All 4 One and Fuse. I could go on and on and on...
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Well said. I don't think I ever stopped to realize all this has happened in just one gen.
Microsoft seems to think that 3rd party games are really all they need, because they can put exclusives on them (mostly timed ones) and they think that's enough.
I think Nintendo specifically has proven that you must have strong first-party development to succeed long term in videogames as a console provider. Sony a little less so, but definitely they have learned from Nintendo too.
Microsoft is going to find out now whether they can get by without a lot of in house game development. I think they can't, but time will tell.
I think Nintendo specifically has proven that you must have strong first-party development to succeed long term in videogames as a console provider. Sony a little less so, but definitely they have learned from Nintendo too.
Microsoft is going to find out now whether they can get by without a lot of in house game development. I think they can't, but time will tell.