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[HocusPocus]

That's actually what I meant to say. If they won't make money they might abandon the console business.

Can the modern console gaming industry survive without Microsoft's money? I think you'll see a tremendous amount of unemployed folks in this industry if they did pull out. I couldn't blame them if they did. They have only received venom from a lot of folks since they first announced the original Xbox for various reasons. Their biggest mistake originally was not being part of something larger and having another company with their name on the box that was less abrasive.

 

[benny_a]

deal with it

What kind of crap response is that?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Microsoft thought they could skate by with their precious brand loyalty. Definitely blowing up their faces now.



That market is too competitive.. or rather, oversaturated

You have:
Roku
Apple TV
Netgear
WD Live TV
Boxee TV
Google TV
Blu-ray Players
Smart TV's
and a ton of others I'm not aware of..

All a quarter of the price (or less actually) than of the MSRP of the Xbone. If they lose their base audience they have nothing. That's also not counting the PS4 with similar features but weighing in at a cheaper price.

Yeah I think the whole "all in one" entertainment device is a huge gamble that will not pay off.

I don't think there are many people that have subscriptions to Hulu, TV, Netflix, etc. all concurrently. And especially with the TV integration, it doesn't replace a DVR or cable box, so its value is limited.

The markets are just too fragmented. PS4 isn't missing out on anything because it doesn't have HDMI in. People will still need a separate cable box, and it's not that difficult to switch from "Input One" to "Input Two".

Edge made a good point, which is something I've stated ever since before the Xbox One reveal; Microsoft is trying to solve a problem that nobody has.

 

[Amir0x]

Can the modern console gaming industry survive without Microsoft's money? I think you'll see a tremendous amount of unemployed folks in this industry if they did pull out. I couldn't blame them if they did. They have only received venom from a lot of folks since they first announced the original Xbox for various reasons. Their biggest mistake originally was not being part of something larger and having another company with their name on the box that was less abrasive.

Yeah, everyone was always such meanies to the Xbox brand, what are they in this poo industry for anyway? People always picking on the giant faceless corporations that have actively attempted to destroy basic consumer rights *mumble*

I couldn't blame them either if they left. The industry doesn't deserve Microsoft.

 

[old]

I like their reasoning. I don't want gimmicks. I want great gaming. I want a gaming console that's just trying to be a great gaming console. I don't want a console that's trying to reinvent gaming. I don't want Wii U's weak specs and tablet controllers. I don't want Xone's kinect, tv features and hundred dollar extra price tag.

I just want a console with great specs, great games, a standard controller and at a great price. Right now Sony has convinced me that's the PS4.

 

[Gestault]

So if XBO fails, and the investment is not properly recouped and therefore the profits remain limited or nonexistent, there is no reason to think Microsoft will keep repeating the pattern. They have the MONEY to, but would it make business sense?

So your take is that the combined customer base of videogames, music, movies and subscription-based TV isn't a source of profit that makes business-sense? The jump in reasoning from seeing a large investment to the assumption that the investments will fail to a point where there's no choice but to abandon the brand and division would apply to effectively every company ever. It's predicated so strongly on a series of events completely unlike the whole history of that product that the reasoning is half-baked, to put it lightly. I had to have this same conversation when people were saying the Playstation brand was "done" when the PS3 had a limited library and rough sales at the same time the PSP was losing developers and software support. The broader gaming community was brutally opposed to the Playstation brand. "The End of Playstation" was the sort of rubbish I had to react to, and unlike this situation, there were financial realities and rumblings from within Sony to lend it some credence, but again, it relied on weak reasoning and wishful thinking that things would play out that way.

Let's look at the last ten years: has Microsoft benefited from its investments in their entertainment division? I think it makes sense they'll continue those efforts. It would take a dramatic series of events to undermine the profitability of Microsoft's model, especially if we're looking at this beyond the XB1, and those disruptions would necessarily effect other players in the market.

 

[robertsan21]

Yeah, this is potentially true. But, I don't think people consider the flip side here, that being, that the Xbox One is hands-down the strongest home entertainment box we've ever seen, in terms of movies, music, and TV. If they lose the gamers, they'll potentially achieve success through this.

The xboned wont succed within that area. It has nothing going for it that people are interested in and that other competitors aren't already doing, paying 499 for it aswell doesn't help. Stick to gaming ms and hope that you can pull through, however I hope xboned fails miserably. MS deserves it for what they tried to pull on us!

 

[ERC198X]

What kind of crap response is that?

it aint

just that the poster who qouted me felt that i shouldn't have that kind of reaction.

who is he to say what kind of reaction i should or shouldn't have

very egotistical mindset to have

 

[Macho Madness]

Reasoning didn't justify that cover if you ask me. Sure, they made some good points with the Indie thing and the PR mishaps, but they'll probably rectify the former and the latter will be more and more forgotten as the months go by.

They also seemed to ignore the non-indie games coming to Xbox One and PS4, which should be the focus these days.

 

[Steroyd]

Yeah, this is potentially true. But, I don't think people consider the flip side here, that being, that the Xbox One is hands-down the strongest home entertainment box we've ever seen, in terms of movies, music, and TV. If they lose the gamers, they'll potentially achieve success through this.

Depends how much MS is planning to put behind a paywall, Despite the PS3 being more expensive and Microsoft sprinting ahead earlier on with a bigger install base, the PS3 is the console that most people are doing their non-gaming business via Netflix.

Reasoning didn't justify that cover if you ask me. Sure, they made some good points with the Indie thing and the PR mishaps, but they'll probably rectify the former and the latter will be more and more forgotten as the months go by.

They also seemed to ignore the non-indie games coming to Xbox One and PS4, which should be the focus these days.

I don't know about that, we all know what to expect from Collardoody, BF, AssCreed etc etc. And franchise fatigue is a real possibility, the freshness from indies should be more welcomed especially the breaking down of barriers.

 

[Amir0x]

So your take is that the combined customer base of videogames, music, movies and subscription-based TV isn't a source of profit that makes business-sense?

No. The comment is specifically talking about a scenario in which XBO bombs and thus the massive investment in it from Microsoft remains unreturned. In such a scenario, given we already know that they have no intention to keep losing money indefinitely, there's no reason to think they won't pull out. One of the internal switches in strategy that has been discussed from GAF insiders has been to try to move the Xbox division from one which has pretty much net Microsoft few if any profits since the first of their consoles have launched, to one which nets them a permanent and reliable revenue stream. They don't WANT to lose another 2 billion dollars or whatever.

The jump in reasoning from seeing a large investment to the assumption that the investments will fail to a point where there's no choice but to abandon the brand and division would apply to effectively every company ever.

It absolutely DOES apply to effectively every company ever. The only difference is when each of these individual companies might decide enough losses are enough. Despite Microsoft having a huge money advantage, they do not have the desire to continually lose money for eternity. I assume were PS4 to bomb dramatically, alongside the Vita bomb and the PS3 difficulties (PS3 cost them every single penny of profit Sony earned from PS/PSP/PS2), Sony too would have to consider their options.

I don't know what world you live in where these aren't stark realities these companies are going to be dealing with, but it is what it is.

Let's look at the last ten years: has Microsoft benefited from its investments in their entertainment division? I think it makes sense they'll continue those efforts. It would take a dramatic series of events to undermine the profitability of Microsoft's model, especially if we're looking at this beyond the XB1, and those disruptions would necessarily effect other players in the market.

Heh, exactly how much do you think Microsoft has benefited from their Xbox division since the Xbox 1 launched? Go ahead, look up the sum total of the profits they have brought in since they entered the game market. I'll be sitting over here with a smile on my face

 

[JDdelphin]

I can't believe people think this is a ballsy move. Edge is a gamer's magazine for dedicated gamers (I won't use the term "hardcore"). The vast majority of those dedicated gamers are ecstatic about Sony's approach and frothing at the mouth about Microsoft's blunders.

They're preaching to the choir. How is this a gutsy play on their part? If anything, it seems like they're riding on the coattails of the groundswell of anti-MS/pro-Sony energy.

What's the worst that can happen? They get spurned by Microsoft? What catastrophe would that entail? They have trouble covering the less than 1% of all games that are MS exclusives?

 

[Chrisness]

The success of the box expanded the audience and killed it. If the bone stays niche it might just be a nice place to game actually, like the old xb days.

You think better games will be released if the console sells less? That makes no sense.

 

[Wickerbasket]

You think better games will be released if the console sells less? That makes no sense.

He's saying the community might be better if the console sells less.

I don't really see the correlation between small user base and friendly community though.

 

[mrklaw]

Have you noticed this?

I think you already know the answer to that.

 

[mrklaw]

That's not how it works. Microsoft is not in this business for charity. They are here to make money. And if they don't make money with a product, they abandon it. The Xbox One clearly shows that Microsoft was looking for a way to increase the reach of the Xbox, to expand the brand beyond games. Now it seems that this strategy failed horribly, because their already established consumer base is fleeing. What does it mean for the future of Xbox, if the X1 will fail? Microsoft made big investments, the APU tech project was at $3 billion according to a linkedin entry, and they invested another few billions. If this doesn't work, they might abandon the Xbox completely.

If Xbox one does badly with gamers..

Good option - MS invests heavily in first part content so it becomes a must-own box, regardless of its TV features or lack of power

Bad option - MS abandons gamers and focuses on it being an entertainment box and pushes the windows 8 app side of things. Over time MS gets the size and cost of the APU down and it becomes strong competition for Apple TV (frankly I'm sure Ms would be happy with that)




I think eventually it will I terrace more deeply with DVRs, it is just a software solution,the hardware is capable of it already, with HDMI passthrough and LAN based remote control

 

[Wickerbasket]

Thanks EDGE, but I think I'll wait this one out.

That cover is from Feb 2006; before all of Sony's PR blunders and E3 2006 with the price announcement.

Everyone assumed the PS3 was going to continue to dominate coming after the PS2 then E3 2006 happened.

 

[Gestault]

[Quote in which I woosh and undermine my point redacted, God rest my soul.]

I misunderstood the meaning of operating income looking at some data, and posted redundant info which I applied completely wrong.

 

[mrklaw]

There is enough profit in 360 now. But it looks like MS got greedy and just figures it can hoover up all digital entertainment spending in the household. If gaming income crashes, there could easily be no money in it for MS to continue.

 

[Majmun]

they won't go like Sega. Sega didn't have the kind of money ms has.

But MS has had a lot of failed products. How could that happen with all that dough???

 

[Metalmurphy]

also on a side note deck out your ps3 with this awesome ps4 dynamic theme: http://www.ps3-themes.com/gaming/ps-4-real.html

Huh, I had no idea people could make dynamic themes. When did this happen?

 

[cchum]

Are you referring to this chart?



Since we can easily discredit it by looking at the FY figures for the companies in question, I'll just highlight the last two full fiscal years from Microsoft for their pertinent divisions. Some of these numbers (in the above chart) are close, but let's just look at 2011 and 2012:

Taking this data into account, I think we can safely assume there's profit enough to justify Microsoft's attention. Even if we assume every other figure in that chart is accurate, which I do question having looked up the data, but even assuming those, the last two full fiscal years already make the Xbox project profitable for Microsoft, even taking into account it's pairing with Microsoft's failed ventures like Zune, Windows Phone, and the 8 billion investment into Skype. This is also ignoring the profit (and investments) in the current year.

Whoa.....what? That is NOT how you calculate profit. Operating Income "The amount of profit realized from a business's operations after taking out operating expenses - such as cost of goods sold (COGS) or wages - and depreciation"
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/operatingincome.asp
The loss in parenthesis is to signify/distinguish a loss from a gain a.k.a 7400=profit (7400)=loss

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Depends how much MS is planning to put behind a paywall, Despite the PS3 being more expensive and Microsoft sprinting ahead earlier on with a bigger install base, the PS3 is the console that most people are doing their non-gaming business via Netflix.

iTunes is the leader in digital distribution of movies and music in the US. The paywall isn't relevant. Gaming digital services from Xbox and PS are also-rans.

 

[DieH@rd]

Thanks EDGE, but I think I'll wait this one out.

First off, remember history.

That's Edge cover is from Feb 2006 when X360 was strugling with crappy launch lineup and hardware failures of epic scale [Oblivion came out in late March], four months before E3 where Sony unveiled PS3 pricing plans.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Are you referring to this chart?



Since we can easily discredit it by looking at the FY figures for the companies in question, I'll just highlight the last two full fiscal years from Microsoft for their pertinent divisions. Some of these numbers (in the above chart) are close, but let's just look at 2011 and 2012:

Taking this data into account, I think we can safely assume there's profit enough to justify Microsoft's attention. Even if we assume every other figure in that chart is accurate, which I do question having looked up the data, but even assuming those, the last two full fiscal years already make the Xbox project profitable for Microsoft, even taking into account it's pairing with Microsoft's failed ventures like Zune, Windows Phone, and the 8 billion investment into Skype. This is also ignoring the profit (and investments) in the current year.

You really think that Xbox made 9.23 Billion in profits last year? You might want to recheck that math...

The entire company made 16.98 Billion in 2012.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

Since we can easily discredit it by looking at the FY figures for the companies in question, I'll just highlight the last two full fiscal years from Microsoft for their pertinent divisions. Some of these numbers (in the above chart) are close, but let's just look at 2011 and 2012:

Taking this data into account, I think we can safely assume there's profit enough to justify Microsoft's attention.

Uh, that shows that MS's Entertainment and Devices division is basically irrelevant to MS's profits despite having decent revenue. I'm not sure which side you are trying to argue here.

 

[professor_t]

deal with it

LOL. I'm not upset by what they said. I think it might be a bit premature, but it doesn't have any bearing on my subjective well-being, and it certainly won't influence my enjoyment of games.

And I'm not saying it isn't warranted. I just don't think Edge necessarily deserves a purple heart for writing a cover story that will make 90% of its readership stand up and applaud. Or, more appropriately, it will *keep* them on their feet, because it seems like just about everyone has been standing in opposition to Microsoft since the bottom fell out.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Ballsy, awesome to see that they have a pair.

 

[jryi]

Bad option - MS abandons gamers and focuses on it being an entertainment box and pushes the windows 8 app side of things. Over time MS gets the size and cost of the APU down and it becomes strong competition for Apple TV (frankly I'm sure Ms would be happy with that)

I don't know if MS could ever push the BOM of Xbone to such level that they could compete pricewise against Apple TV. And you'd always have to take into account Live Gold, which is an essential revenue generator for MS. Who in their right minds would buy a box for $150 and then pay a yearly service fee, if not for gaming?

There's one more thing to consider, when thinking about what Microsoft will do with their entertainment division in the future. For larger corporations simply being profitable is not enough. They will happily scrap a product line, if they think that return on investment would be larger somewhere else. Microsoft probably has their sights set on a bigger end game than just dominating video gaming industry, which is why they've been able to absorb quite significant losses. But they are not in the business for the love of the art: they want to eventually make shit loads of money (and I'm not blaming them, they are a corporation, after all).

 

[Toma]

How was the articles of the magazine? Worth spending 5 bucks on?

 

[dose]

also on a side note deck out your ps3 with this awesome ps4 dynamic theme:

That looks fucking awful, no thanks.

 

[Applecot]

can we play that console? i mean cover?

 

[El_Mau]

The entire company made 16.98 Billion in 2012.

16.98 Billion just in Q4

"For Microsoft’s fiscal year 2012, the company’s revenue, operating income, and earnings per share were $73.72 billion, $21.76 billion, and $2.00 per share."

Source

 

[toff74]

Remember how they dedicated an issue to Rise of the Robots??

And we all know how that ended up!

Just sayin.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

[Quote in which I woosh and undermine my point redacted, God rest my soul.]

I misunderstood the meaning of operating income looking at some data, and posted redundant info which I applied completely wrong.

Operating income and revenue both

 

[cchum]

Jeez Louise!
Revenue does not equal operating income does not equal net income. Last year:

Revenue $73.72 billion,
Operating Income $21.76 billion
Net Income 16.98 billion

Revenue-Operating expenses=Operating Income -(taxes, investment and other expenses)=net income

Edit: Gestault: No worries man. It happens.

 

[badb0y]

16.98 Billion just in Q4

"For Microsoft’s fiscal year 2012, the company’s revenue, operating income, and earnings per share were $73.72 billion, $21.76 billion, and $2.00 per share."

Source

Stop mixing up revenue and profit.

Profit = Revenue - Cost

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Fuck it, EDGE is available with a 30 days free trial on Google Play Magazines. I'll read this issue just to see what the fuss is about. It's kind of cool being outside the UK and being able to read a magazine digitally anywhere in the world. I haven't picked up or read a print gaming rag in at least a decade, so it will be kind of like reliving my teenage years, except I'll be sitting on my couch using a tablet instead of sitting in a bookstore.

 

[Visualante2]

tbh I was pretty disappointed with the previews. I'd rather have an in depth thing than a 2 sentence recap. Reminds me of when IGN tries to cover every release. Some of these previews could literally have been tweets they're so short.

Plants vs. Zombies 2 puts critics in a very uncomfortable position because of how easy it is to manipulate the economy post release. Developers get a freebie first time around but if they make critics look like chumps for giving out 9s they're going to lose the benefit of the doubt next time.

 

[swordsman720]

Edge is trash for me anyway, since the ipad version. I want to quit my subscription.

I hope some top of MS read this. Please low your price NOW!! and please include the fucking headset.

I read Sony mentioned that have never in their intention to blocks/or DRM to their games. If you belive this then you are mad.
Look at their patents etc...

Can mod do someting about the peopels whose uses the word Xb***??

 

[pelican]

Edge is trash for me anyway, since the ipad version. I want to quit my subscription.

I hope some top of MS read this. Please low your price NOW!! and please include the fucking headset.

I read Sony mentioned that have never in their intention to blocks/or DRM to their games. If you belive this then you are mad.
Look at their patents etc...

Can mod do someting about the peopels whose uses the word Xb***??

So basically you don't like EDGE due to their opinion of the xbone?

And why should mods deal with people using xbone? Because you don't like it?

 

[Ushae]

Just got my copy and read the article. I'm a subscriber for quite some years now but damn...I had to read twice and read out loud for the third time ( English is not my native language ) to convince myself what I was reading. I never, ever remember EDGE to have written such a ballsy statement regarding the future off a gamesconsole. Article is very well written btw. Guess it's far too early to conclude things, but I hope that MS will manage to 'survive' this storm...don't want them to go down the same road as SEGA.

Edge is a magazine looking for hits, it's natural and actually pretty smart of them to tap the pro-sony energy that is going around while it's stilll there.

Yeah, this is potentially true. But, I don't think people consider the flip side here, that being, that the Xbox One is hands-down the strongest home entertainment box we've ever seen, in terms of movies, music, and TV. If they lose the gamers, they'll potentially achieve success through this.

I agree, a lof of people will look at the X1 for it's entertainment value. Both my brother, sister and brother in law have all said the exact saem thing to me 'But what else does the PS4 do?' .. I was a bit shocked, but then again it's not their fault, they're mainstream buyers.

If Xbox one does badly with gamers..

Good option - MS invests heavily in first part content so it becomes a must-own box, regardless of its TV features or lack of power

Bad option - MS abandons gamers and focuses on it being an entertainment box and pushes the windows 8 app side of things. Over time MS gets the size and cost of the APU down and it becomes strong competition for Apple TV (frankly I'm sure Ms would be happy with that)




I think eventually it will I terrace more deeply with DVRs, it is just a software solution,the hardware is capable of it already, with HDMI passthrough and LAN based remote control

Honestly I can see MS taking on both routes if they play their cards smart. They must output both a high quality and quantity of first party exclusives. It's the defining feature every core gamer wants. If it has the games, gamers will want to buy it. (At the right price of course). Most of this will depend on who gets elected as the new head of Xbox Division.

I personally don't want to see Nintendo, Sony or MS get pushed out of the market. Our games are as good as they are due to competition from these three.

 

[Creaking]

Edge is trash for me anyway, since the ipad version. I want to quit my subscription.

I hope some top of MS read this. Please low your price NOW!! and please include the fucking headset.

I read Sony mentioned that have never in their intention to blocks/or DRM to their games. If you belive this then you are mad.
Look at their patents etc...

Can mod do someting about the peopels whose uses the word Xb***??

Oh dear me. Dear you.

 

[LTWheels]

Edge's next issue:

 

[Katana_Strikes]

.

Can mod do someting about the peopels whose uses the word Xb***??

And while the mods are on I hope they do something about the peopels whose uses the word PSone... Wut?!

 

[Creaking]

And while the mods are on I hope they do something about the peopels whose uses the word PSone... Wut?!

Personally, I wish they'd do something about that PSX rubbish. PSX was a DVR with an integrated PS2, not Sony's first console. The insanity.

 

[Slair]

And while the mods are on I hope they do something about the peopels whose uses the word PS***... Wut?!

Woah, hey now, I'll censor that for ya

 

[Toma]

Can mod do someting about the peopels whose uses the word Xb***??

Xbone, Xboned, Xboner, Xbone-ification.

 

[benny_a]

 

[bishopcruz]

Personally, I wish they'd do something about that PSX rubbish. PSX was a DVR with an integrated PS2, not Sony's first console. The insanity.

Actually Playstation X was the original codename for the Playstation we know and love. The reason for it being was that the Play Station was also the name for the aborted SNES CD add on/console by Sony.

So know yo shit.