Eh, Haze is one of many games that bombed on much larger userbases.
GamerJM said:
Software has at least 1-2 years of lead time. I don't think you're going to see much more of Ubisoft after this year, unless it has dancing in it.
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Yves Guillemot: ZombiU Wasn't Profitable, not even close, no sequel planned
- Thread starter Saty
- Start date
Eh, Haze is one of many games that bombed on much larger userbases.
Software has at least 1-2 years of lead time. I don't think you're going to see much more of Ubisoft after this year, unless it has dancing in it.
I don't know why many company complaining about Wii U !!
Did Ubisoft forget this and how it is selling?
It's not like we got a sequel to Haze at any point or time. Also, Ubisoft is still porting games to Wii U (Assassin's Creed 4 and Watch Dogs).
The original Wii was cheap to make and used inexpensive hardware. But because of its novel motion controls, it sold very well and made Nintendo gobs of money. Viewed as a fad or a toy, this strategy is fine because fads and toys do not need to cultivate an audience nor offer long term value for money and customer satisfaction.
However, if consoles are not toys or fads, but actual consumer products along the lines of TVs, receivers, cameras, cars, etc., then they have to offer long term value for money if they want to compete. And using that criteria, the original Wii was uncompetitive, as is the Wii U.
So, the Wii U has failed as a toy/fad because the concept is boring and unappealing; and because of the Wii branding, consumers have no confidence that it will offer long term value so it has failed as a traditional consumer product as well. I do not know how they can sell it and make a profit.
I am boring, so I like what Cerny has done with the PS brand, which is set out to make a product that gives the customer value for $ and provides the developers with a great platform and give Sony a reasonable ROI. MS and Nintendo looked to have gotten greedy with their next gen strategies. I shutter to think what things would have looked like if Sony wasn't competing in the console space.
My recommendations to Nintendo, and really to any company, is to make a solid product which gives consumers long term value for their money, and don't get too greedy.
However, if consoles are not toys or fads, but actual consumer products along the lines of TVs, receivers, cameras, cars, etc., then they have to offer long term value for money if they want to compete. And using that criteria, the original Wii was uncompetitive, as is the Wii U.
So, the Wii U has failed as a toy/fad because the concept is boring and unappealing; and because of the Wii branding, consumers have no confidence that it will offer long term value so it has failed as a traditional consumer product as well. I do not know how they can sell it and make a profit.
I am boring, so I like what Cerny has done with the PS brand, which is set out to make a product that gives the customer value for $ and provides the developers with a great platform and give Sony a reasonable ROI. MS and Nintendo looked to have gotten greedy with their next gen strategies. I shutter to think what things would have looked like if Sony wasn't competing in the console space.
My recommendations to Nintendo, and really to any company, is to make a solid product which gives consumers long term value for their money, and don't get too greedy.
First off, all consoles are toys (whether we as members of GAF want to admit that or not). The word "fad" also gets thrown around rather nonchalant here.
No company is "infallible", console or otherwise. Sony's vision of this generation was atrocious at the start. It's clearly not working in the handheld space. Many gamers don't like the "cinematic" approach to much of their software. This is a demo that they've focused on since the PS1, but moreso now. The people that do are obviously eating up the software on the platform.
Microsoft had a more solid idea of this generation, but its execution was awful hardware wise. Still, they are the pioneers of "pay to play" and something that has resulted in a net negative for gamers. However they have great market for shooters and sports titles that publishers enjoy.
Nintendo has a great vision for family gaming and multiplayer party stuff, but does not offer much to the 16-30 demographic that many gamers thrive on. This will inevitably lead to subpar support from the current major publishers. Many people in this demographic don't want cartoon lands, and that also leads to a disconnect.
Lastly, I hope you're using "reasonable ROI" for Sony as a long-term prospect, because they will take a short term bath on the console to get it out at a more reasonable price than what Microsoft is offering. Not as much as the PS3 obviously, but the bath is still there.
The controllers vibrate and everything.
fart town usa
Gold Member
I know the story behind Haze, sheesh. I'm laughing because it was a funny post, lighten up.
Force feedback is so last gen
lol sorry, sometimes the sarcasm detector is broken on internet forums
diddybeats
Member
Does anyone have any reasonable estimates as to what other software sold like?
From the investors meeting I think Nintendo said to March there was 13.42 million software units sold on Wii U. Im not sure if this includes VC and indie games but I imagine so. NSMBU was at 2.15 million and Nintendoland 2.60 million so after that the next highest game is ~150k? What makes up the other 8.67 million units then?
From the investors meeting I think Nintendo said to March there was 13.42 million software units sold on Wii U. Im not sure if this includes VC and indie games but I imagine so. NSMBU was at 2.15 million and Nintendoland 2.60 million so after that the next highest game is ~150k? What makes up the other 8.67 million units then?
while all the criticism to how nintendo has handled the wiiU is valid and on point, i do wonder why there are always 3 times more people in a "bad nintendo news" thread then there are in a "positive nintendo news" thread.
no doubt there are handfuls of people having actual intelligent discussions, but then theres also everybody else.
it seems people really do want this company to fall and not get up, and i can't think of a reason why anyone would want this other than some sort of personal satisfaction and 'moral victory'.
no doubt there are handfuls of people having actual intelligent discussions, but then theres also everybody else.
it seems people really do want this company to fall and not get up, and i can't think of a reason why anyone would want this other than some sort of personal satisfaction and 'moral victory'.
Depends on your definition of toy, of course. I put consoles in the same category as I do blu ray players, speakers, receivers, televisions, sports cars, etc: unnecessary consumer luxury items designed primarily for entertainment. Those products, even though luxeries, still require manufacturers to deliver value for money and to care about their brand.
Toys are things that do not require brand development, nor do they have to deliver long term value for money. ymmv.
defintion: noun
an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived; a craze:
Sounds a lot like Wii motion gaming. ymmv
Anyone say otherwise? Right now, July 2013, Cerny is making the decisions on what the PS4 is as a piece of hardware, and imo, is doing a good job.
When I buy a product, I care about quality and long term value for money. Consoles to me are just consumer products and not an entry point into a vision.
Can you give us a source for that?
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I don't know why many company complaining about Wii U !!
Did Ubisoft forget this and how it is selling?
It's different when a poorly reviewed piece of shit game doesn't sell. Or maybe you just think its UbiSoft picking on poor Nintendo?
Bruno MB
Member
That 150k figure is just for the US market. And don't forget that the software sales data that Nintendo provides are shipped numbers. A good amount of those 13.42 million of units are still on shelves.
Castef
Banned
"You, Zombie"
JordoftheDead
Member
That's bad news, I enjoyed that game. It's also more bad news for the WiiU.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
That number seems awfully high. No doubt they're counting Nintendoland which comes with the hardware. I'd also bet each Club Nintendo VC game offer counts as a "sale" as well.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
That bizarre potshot at Haze doesn't even make sense considering Ubi's still supporting the Wii U a lot better than other 3rd parties are.
pieatorium
Member
Also it bombed and didn't get a sequel, if there was a Haze 2 in the works maybe there might be some point. They even cancelled the ports to other systems for it.
BlackLagoon
Member
Zombi U was developed as a launch title as part of Ubisoft's significant contentment to the platform. Haze was a troubled PC/360 title that got slapped onto the PS3 in the hopes that the increased profile from exclusivity and PR/marketing support from Sony would help it overcome its failings.
Neuro
Member
Huh, between 18th May 2013 and 8th July 2013, things have changed a lot at Ubisoft it seems
"When approached by GamesIndustry International about whether the company may reevaluate its stance on devoting resources to a struggling platform, a spokesperson told us, "As with any new console, it takes some time to grow an established base. Ubisoft has a varied and high-quality line-up for Wii U, with more big titles on the way including Rayman Legends, Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag and Splinter Cell Blacklist. We're confident that this will help in continuing to attract gamers to the Wii U system and that Nintendo will take steps to ensure that the Wii U is successful in the market.""
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-18-ubisoft-reaffirms-its-faith-in-nintendo
"When approached by GamesIndustry International about whether the company may reevaluate its stance on devoting resources to a struggling platform, a spokesperson told us, "As with any new console, it takes some time to grow an established base. Ubisoft has a varied and high-quality line-up for Wii U, with more big titles on the way including Rayman Legends, Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag and Splinter Cell Blacklist. We're confident that this will help in continuing to attract gamers to the Wii U system and that Nintendo will take steps to ensure that the Wii U is successful in the market.""
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-18-ubisoft-reaffirms-its-faith-in-nintendo
diddybeats
Member
Ah ok makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification.
PR mouthpieces never say anything of substance. CEOs on the other hand...
Neuro
Member
I don't know why many company complaining about Wii U !!
Did Ubisoft forget this and how it is selling?
You know a few years from now, where we are all hooked up to our holodecks playing Half Life 3, this game will be worth a couple of thousand dollars...
Well, that's interesting.
This is kind of sadly ironic given how often people here on GAF would reference these supposed hints of a ZombiU sequel.
And yeah, W101 is toast.
Bayonetta 2 is toast. Poor PG :'(
The Wii U has failed so far because it has no games. There has been nothing of note between launch and now.
If the holiday titles don't give the machine a boost then yes, we can say that the console simply isn't appealing but Nintendo's marketing and release scheduling has been so bad we can't judge that yet. Most people don't even know the Wii U exists, so they can't even consider purchasing one in the first place.
Gormless Noodle
Member
I fail to see how this is in any way removed from the Wii. In fact, every single one of your points can be brought back to business decisions made due to the Wii's performance.
- Why did Nintendo fuck up the launch?
Because Nintendo believed that they didn't need to focus on the power of the hardware at all. Why? Because of the Wii. What about the games they launched with? Why did they create Nintendo Land and New Super Mario Bros U as launch titles? Because they wanted to make a new Wii Sports phenomenon occur, this time however, infused with Nintendo IP's as to position those well into the minds of people for when they were going to release separate games for those IPs. NSMB U was one of the best selling games of the Wii, so it made sense for them to bring that out first. All because of the prior performance of the Wii.
Why make a karaoke/dance game as a launch title? Because Just Dance (also a title on which they put extra emphasis on getting to their system as a launch title) and several like it, did so well on the Wii. They stated this in their research reports as to what people were buying mostly on the Wii and other consoles.
- Why was the reveal a mess? From Nintendo's standpoint it made sense. Focus on the controller, just like, you guessed it, they did for the Wii at TGS. Why were all their E3 conferences a mess? They focused on games that did well for the Wii and looked at what the Wii lacked this generation i.e HD games like Call of Duty and an online infrastructure that allows the accompanying DLC to be available for the platform.
- The lack of build up was because the technology just isn't exciting. Because the games aren't exciting. Because the console, displays visuals on par or in some cases, slightly inferior to what people have seen for the last 8 years on Xbox 360 and PS3. Again, all due to the Wii as pointed out previously.
- Why no steady stream of strong software? Well, you can look at the opening post for one answer to that as far as 3rd parties are concerned. And as for Nintendo themselves not having games ready, well they weren't prepared for HD development apparently due to them living in their SD Wii bubble.
- Price is too high. I wonder why, maybe it's the inclusion of that giant tablet controller they were trying to sell to people as the second coming of the Wii remote. They needed a unique angle after all since it worked so well with the Wii.
- A confusing name. Why did Nintendo not see this? They pay people out the ass to think this stuff up and yet they still went with it. Well, perhaps because they thought it was just something to get used to and would garner the same response as the Wii name got with its original unveiling. See Reggie's talk regarding that at the E3 they revealed the console and name.
In consequence it left people confused, sure. But all of this stems from their experiences with the Wii. It certainly doesn't come from nowhere or live in some vacuum. Just like for instance, Xbox One. Microsoft focused on TV at their reveal because of what they saw happening on the Xbox 360, again these are not ideas that come out of nowhere.
tl;dr They dun fucked up cus of their previous experiences with the Wii
People do not buy consoles to open them up and stare at the motherboard. They buy them to play games. Nintendo has only now, 9 months after launch, begun to release more first party software. That is why the console is failing. The console could be the most powerful of all time, with the software slate it's had it would make no difference.
Look at the Vita. It's powerful but nobody wants one because it doesn't have the software. Software sells hardware is the absolute golden rule of the videogames business but NIntendo seemed to forget that with both the 3DS and Wii U.
Gormless Noodle
Member
I did mention the games part in the very same post (although it got a bit long there), I'm just summing up the parts that I feel were important in the Wii U's failing and horsepower is certainly one of them, but not the only one of course.
While Zombi U was not a great game by any stretch of the imagination, it was a good game with solid foundations, i think many felt that with a sequel they could iron some of the issues, offer more depth with the combat system, then it could become a truly great game.
It could almost be compared to the original Assassins Creed, not in the way it played or even genre, but in how it was a good concept that just needed that sequel to propel it to greater heights.
However the difference is that AC1 sold a truckload, and this did not.
It could almost be compared to the original Assassins Creed, not in the way it played or even genre, but in how it was a good concept that just needed that sequel to propel it to greater heights.
However the difference is that AC1 sold a truckload, and this did not.
gamergirly
Member
Whether a 3rd party game is good or not, its sales will always be dependent on the hardware(Wii U) its supposed to run on. Wii U has a small userbase, go figure lol
The only 1st party game that had the potential to sell hardware was NSMBU.
A problem I personally see that feeds into this situation with 3rd party providers, is that it seems that growth of the Nintendo faithful (i.e. core) population appears to be flat-lining or even contracting with each home console they put out. (will note that handhelds appear a bit more immune to that trend). It's something I would guess as relating to Ninty seemingly being more conservative with their IP and hardware (re)releases each time around.
For every 4 gamers eagerly awaiting that new mario experience again, there seems one or two that walk away without looking back because the next big release has a massive chance of it "just being yet another mario game" again rather than a new IP. Something that feels fresh (and indeed could even be the next Mario). All first parties are guilty of bringing on franchise fatigue, but this is a particularly large problem for Nintendo with this rapidly deteriorating 3rd party situation, whose variety of titles do much to mitigate such things. It just accelerates the diminishing returns of the nostalgia effect on significant section of their fanbase who would like to see those oh so talented studios release something that looks and feels like a new direction, rather than that recurring sensation (subjectively) of just feeling all too familiar after 20 odd years.
It's a fine balance, as they would admittedly be lynched by those the keep returning to Nintendo for those very same recurring titles. Personally I hope they manage it, I just think without losing this increasingly conservative trajectory, that they will really struggle to return to a level of the relevance they used to have in previous generations.
For every 4 gamers eagerly awaiting that new mario experience again, there seems one or two that walk away without looking back because the next big release has a massive chance of it "just being yet another mario game" again rather than a new IP. Something that feels fresh (and indeed could even be the next Mario). All first parties are guilty of bringing on franchise fatigue, but this is a particularly large problem for Nintendo with this rapidly deteriorating 3rd party situation, whose variety of titles do much to mitigate such things. It just accelerates the diminishing returns of the nostalgia effect on significant section of their fanbase who would like to see those oh so talented studios release something that looks and feels like a new direction, rather than that recurring sensation (subjectively) of just feeling all too familiar after 20 odd years.
It's a fine balance, as they would admittedly be lynched by those the keep returning to Nintendo for those very same recurring titles. Personally I hope they manage it, I just think without losing this increasingly conservative trajectory, that they will really struggle to return to a level of the relevance they used to have in previous generations.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Well if you look at the quote is it not what is happening? Ubisoft is still bringing those games to the console are they not? The only part that isn't happening is what Nintendo should be doing in that quote. So nothing has really changed other then Nintendo has seemingly refused to do what it needs to do to make the console a success. Hence Ubisoft has gotten more negative on the console like most people have.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Right, given the fact that people buy consoles to play games, what reason is there to buy the console that's missing out on virtually every big franchise game?
Consumers know Playstation and Xbox deliver all of the hottest releases, so why even consider Nintendo? What reason is there to blow $350 on a system that's been a disappointment since launch?
TheRedSnifit
Member
Okay.
1) RE was not unique or original. Alone in the Dark had already done the pre-renders/3D characters/fetch quest formula three times before RE came out.
2) RE is the exception, not the rule. Silent Hill sold poorly, and its sales have just gotten worse. Every FF game bombed, as did Parasite Eve. In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to find any financially successful survival horror series besides RE. It simply isn't a popular genre.
3) Many games did try and emulate RE. Most of those games bombed.
Natureboy99
Banned
Dear Nintendo,
Its time to let upper management go.
Its time to let upper management go.
Gormless Noodle
Member
I consider myself one of those that walked away and I used to be really huge on Nintendo stuff. I do still keep a very close eye on them though and the main problems as I see them, are being caused mainly by Iwata and Miyamoto.
Iwata thinks that his Wii/DS strategy of making unique hardware is the solution to everything. While Miyamoto says things like "It's not about making new characters, it's about making new experiences", he also says that story elements for instance are not important in games and is, I think at least, responsible for keeping their games from evolving any longer.
So, that results in Iwata's case in making "innovative" hardware for the sake of being unique, result: Wii U and 3DS (I know fans like to parade the 3DS as a victory, but it really isn't if you see sales results from the West)
In Miyamoto's case it results in: No big new franchises (save for the Wii Fits/Sports etc, but those don't really have characters to begin with), Zelda not even having any voice acting or anything else more modern, Paper Mario not having a story which made the entire game lose it's charm etc etc etc etc.
These two guys right there, they'll be the downfall of this company. I wish Yamauchi was young enough to do something against it, but I think this is it for Nintendo unless management changes REALLY fast. Japanese traditionalism in the business sense, has to be one of the most retarded things I have ever seen.
It's not a fad if people were still doing interesting things with it. ZombiU would be one of those interesting things.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Why do people keep saying this? Do you think firing Iwata is going to magically make their problems go away?
It certainly allows them to hire people who know how to solve such problems. Though I'm not too confident that they would hire those.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I don't know why many company complaining about Wii U !!
Did Ubisoft forget this and how it is selling?
1) Haze sold twice as well as ZombiU in US (NPD), so great job with the comparison
2) Ubisoft didn't make Haze, Ubisoft did make ZombiU.
3) Haze is an acknowledged piece of shit that led pretty directly to the company that made it getting shut down after it did not perform well enough.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Nintendo is an old Japanese business, they aren't going to just hire some new dude with radically different ideas. Even if Iwata was let go somebody internal with the same philosophy would be promoted. To really see change the whole upper management would have to be scrapped and that just 'aint happening. Westerners don't really have a good grasp on how the Japanese handle management. Not saying I'm an expert but I've learned a few things.
Neff
Member
I wouldn't write the possibility of a sequel off yet. For one, the Wii U hasn't really shown us what it can do commercially. For another, ZombiU is arguably one of the best games on the system and the only one thus far to make the Gamepad a seamless, integral extension of its host game. When there are more Wii Us out there (read: after the holiday and 2014 spring onslaught), expect the ZombiU love to spread a little more and hopefully rekindle some sequel interest.
I agree. Both Wii U and 3DS simply show that they don't do market research and don't care about their customers' and the market's needs or interests. To change things, the inept NCL management needs replacement, which simply won't happen.
Not sure how to get people who understand the today's videogame and consumer technology industry into the management at Nintendo. Simply promoting some developer or producer won't be too helpful if they also don't know how to run a businnes successfully and efficiently.