Support NeoGAF

[CassidyIzABeast]

90% difference.

1.84 TFLOPS (+40%)
57.6 GTex/s (+40%)
25.6 GPix/s (+90%)

170% difference

 

[tirminyl]

This narrative that the bone is a very capable machine is straight up laughable. The PS4 is mid-level GPU, pathetic CPU and 8GB of GDDR5. It is nothing to shout home about in terms of specs. The Bone is even more pathetic compared to this low standard.

Both of these machines are underpowered relative to what we could have gotten, both console makers have been far too conservative.

So what you are saying is, each company should mass produce a $900 console with an msrp of $400?

 

[diehard]

So what you are saying is, each company should mass produce a $900 console with an msrp of $400?

Honestly we got pretty spoiled from a price/specs ratio from the original xbox.

we need another company willing to take massive losses on hardware just to break into the market.

 

[artist]

Extremetech? Hruska? The one who wrote this ..

Oh, gotcha.

 

[cyberheater]

PS4 XBO Difference
Texture reads(gt/s)...........56........41.....36.59%
Vertex throughput(bn). .....1.6........1.7....-5.88%
Output(gp/s)..................25.6.......13.6....88.24%
Ops/cycle......................1152......768....50.00%
TF................................1.84......1.308...40.67%


So what does it all mean?
The Texture reads are the number of textures you can "fetch" in per second from a given source. Its exactly what it means. The PS4 can grab 36% more textures per second.

Vertex throughput - Conversely, because both are tied to there clock speed, the end result is, the XBO has an advantage on just how many things it can display on screen per second (note: I'm not saying how pretty those things are).

Output- This one is a little squishy, while the raw numbers would favor Sony, the real trick here is to try and output only what is required. The more useless information you can "kill" and not output at all, the better.
Couple together the ability to store data in a compressed format, a rather large ROP cache that allows for depth testing pre pixel shader work, and you make significant gains in output. It's really really hard to come up with any sort of meaningful conclusion on this one other than to say they both have more than enough grunt to do 1080p 60fps with well over 10 overdraw easily.

Op/s per cycle.......Now here's the one that you need to get you head around and where the famous "50%" more power tends to get bandied about. A few things you have to understand about a graphics pipeline, and that is that its entirely programmable. The length and complexity of those calculations is entirely up to the programmer running for both vertex and pixel (and others these days).

I wont get to much into but lets put it this way. If dev choose a rather lengthy complex calculation to run on a pixel shader, then this will favor the PS4. If not, then it wont affect either, except for the fact that the XBO is pushing more cycles per second.

The best way to thing of it is like lines of code, this is by no means a correct analogy, but its the best I can come up with....

If the programmer runs code on shader that's less than 768 "instructions", then it favor the XBO due to its higher clock rate.
If the code is larger than 768 "instructions" then it favors the PS4.

Here's the kicker though, because this code is running "per vertex" or "per texal" ie. per model or mesh, then your still tied to your vertex throughput or texture fetch rate.
One of these does allow for the PS4's greater lines of code, by allowing for more texture fetches, but on a vertex by vertex rate? Your still limited to clock speed.

The only conclusion I make from this is, that for most tasks, shadow mapping etc it's pretty much a wash outside of clock rate.
The PS4 allows for more complex code in terms of allowing more textures per model or mesh, and more complex and lengthier code "per model".

The end result will likely be a wash in terms of most assets used. Models, the number of models, "things going on" is identical. The actual texture resolution though, this favors the PS4, whether that be through the number of textures applied to a model, or simply higher res textures.

I cant help but think of the PS4 render pipeline architecture as a snake, whose eaten a rather large meal. He has this rather large belly in the middle of it. While its head and tail are sleek.
The issue being of course, if you use that overhead "space" or not.

Conclusion:Things aren't going to be "faster" you not going to see "more things" on the PS4 graphics. What you may see is higher res textures, or better texture effects possible on the PS4. While I expect the frame rate to be steady and the same on both. My gut feeling is, that extra "bump" in the snake is there for compute calculations.

Now, what Ive left out of all of this, is the extra work that either the CPU or GPU have to do on the PS4. There is no real way of conclusively discussing that as Sony hasn't been terribly forthcoming on and additional hardware specs.
But, as things stand, there's and awe-full lot the PS4 has to deal with outside of simply drawing a polygon, that will need either CPU or GPU resources, and could impact on that extra compute claculations overhead the PS4 has.

That was a very good read. Thank you.

Additional:

The 768 ops criticism is justified, its a lot more complex in real life than I explained. Because of the parallelism , in real life you really looking at this over more than simply one clock tick. I did say it was a bad analogy. Running shaders are still a serial thing, you have to calculate you vertex shaders info before you can pass it on to the pixel shader, which is reliant on the vertex shader info (even if it just screen space xyz and u.v. pass through). The whole process is going to take more than one clock tick to complete. But averaged out, its about as close as I could come up with in that analogy. I do get the feeling some on there seem to forget that these pipelines are still working on parallel data sets. We aren't simply talking "op/s" we are talking about a rather large data set of info that has to pass though the shaders, most games would pass though x,y,z,diffuse, tangent data, multiple uv data, all of this has to be swallowed, and these run though the pipeline in sets of two. You cant simply make it "go faster" by adding more ops, if you don't need those op's in whatever code your executing (a simple matrix multiplication for example).

Source here:-

http://www.psu.com/forums/showthrea...ip-Conference-XBOX-One-Silicon-(Update)/page7

 

[Codeblew]

It's amazing how some of you can truly think you know more (or better) than the people working (and engineering) for these companies. Let alone websites like ExtremeTech, that specialize in knowing about computer tech in extreme detail. The "they are absolutely wrong" statements made by some here really amuse me.

There are a lot of people on this site that understand tech as good or better than the people on these tech websites.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

This narrative that the bone is a very capable machine is straight up laughable. The PS4 is mid-level GPU, pathetic CPU and 8GB of GDDR5. It is nothing to shout home about in terms of specs. The Bone is even more pathetic compared to this low standard.

Both of these machines are underpowered relative to what we could have gotten, both console makers have been far too conservative.

How anyone can look at some of the games we've seen and suggest that the two machines are pathetic is beyond me. There's some incredible looking games on both of these consoles, and I mean incredible, and this is just what we're getting at launch. There's so much more that will be wringed out of the hardware of both machines.

Fact is these aren't PCs. Nobody wants to pay too much money for the systems. These two machines, as consoles, are extremely powerful. It really doesn't matter what kind of hardware is out there and available for pcs at this point. I think both Sony and MS have been extremely intelligent about what kinds of machines they needed to have built and ready for the next generation.

There are a lot of people on this site that understand tech as good or better than the people on these tech websites.

I disagree entirely with the use of "a lot." There's a lot of people that know how to say something, and sound like they know what they're talking about, but usually that's highly misleading, because whenever I've shown some of it to a friend in game development to have a look at it and address the validity of the argument, they just say in as polite a way as they can, that's just not accurate, and then they go into a whole explanation for why, an explanation I obviously don't fully comprehend, but it makes sense in the moment when I'm being assisted in understanding what they're talking about. So, without insulting anybody, and it isn't my intent, no, there isn't a lot of people that understand tech as much as they appear to. They're just extremely good at sounding competent and highly proficient while doing so. And, mind you, some of these posts were the ones I actually liked or agreed with, and thought were really well put.

 

[diehard]

There are a lot of people on this site that understand tech as good or better than the people on these tech websites.

anandtech is about the only site i believe has more knowledgeable people than neogaf.

 

[Codeblew]

What is hUMA and why is it so important all of a sudden?

hUMA allows CPU and GPU to address the same memory space without the need to copy it back and forth. This makes the system more efficient overall and allows developers to consider some algorithms that they wouldn't have before due to the memory copy overhead.

I think this post on Reddit put it in laymans terms pretty well: http://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/1l750v/playstation_4_includes_huma_technologyvg_leaks/cbwid8q

Unified memory means they use the same physical pool of memory.
hUMA means they use the same physical pool of memory, but they also use the same address space for that memory.
So in a non hUMA situation: The CPU knows a bit of data named 'Peter' and knows he lives on Pine Street. The CPU wants to introduce 'Peter' to the GPU, but the GPU can't go to Pine Street. So 'Peter' has to move to Willow Avenue, where GPU can go. Now when CPU needs 'Peter' to help him install his new car stereo, 'Peter' has to move back to Pine Street because the CPU can't go to Willow Avenue.
In a hUMA situation, if CPU wants to introduce 'Peter' to GPU, the GPU just goes to Pine Street.

 

[astraycat]

That was a very good read. Thank you.

Additional:

The 768 ops criticism is justified, its a lot more complex in real life than I explained. Because of the parallelism , in real life you really looking at this over more than simply one clock tick. I did say it was a bad analogy. Running shaders are still a serial thing, you have to calculate you vertex shaders info before you can pass it on to the pixel shader, which is reliant on the vertex shader info (even if it just screen space xyz and u.v. pass through). The whole process is going to take more than one clock tick to complete. But averaged out, its about as close as I could come up with in that analogy. I do get the feeling some on there seem to forget that these pipelines are still working on parallel data sets. We aren't simply talking "op/s" we are talking about a rather large data set of info that has to pass though the shaders, most games would pass though x,y,z,diffuse, tangent data, multiple uv data, all of this has to be swallowed, and these run though the pipeline in sets of two. You cant simply make it "go faster" by adding more ops, if you don't need those op's in whatever code your executing (a simple matrix multiplication for example).

Ugh. I'm not even sure what he's getting at now. Things don't "run through the pipeline in sets of two." You can simply make it "go faster" by adding more parallel ops, so long as there is enough work to do. Sure, maybe you only do a simple matrix multiply, but as soon as you get to more than vertices than the number of ops/c things will simply "go faster" because it's now taking less cycles to run through all the vertices.

But that's really beside the point. Vertex processing tends not to be the bottleneck in modern games. Pixel shading is where the majority of the time is spent, and there are plenty of pixel wavefronts to go around; more than enough to saturate either the XB1 or the PS4 GPU. As soon as you have enough wavefronts in flight, the CU count (and thus total number of ops/c count) begins to matter.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

anandtech is about the only site i believe has more knowledgeable people than neogaf.

My favorite tech site right there.

 

[ElTorro]

I'm not even sure what he's getting at now.

I think he misunderstand how SIMD works and thinks that every ALU executes a different instruction in parallel. He confuses data parallelism with instruction parallelism (which wouldn't work anyway). At least that is my interpretation, many parts of the original post didn't make sense.

 

[coldfoot]

That "mynd" guy he's quoting knows jack shit about GPU's and also a certified console warrior. I'd steer clear of quoting anything he says.
http://n4g.com/user/comments/mynd/all/1

 

[artist]

If the programmer runs code on shader that's less than 768 "instructions", then it favor the XBO due to its higher clock rate.
If the code is larger than 768 "instructions" then it favors the PS4.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

That "mynd" guy he's quoting knows jack shit about GPU's and also a certified console warrior. I'd steer clear of quoting anything he says.

I clearly must not have read as many of his posts as you have, but the guy seems pretty damn neutral. Got any examples?

 

[Flatline]

1.84 TFLOPS (+40%)
57.6 GTex/s (+40%)
25.6 GPix/s (+90%)

170% difference

Microsoft would agree with this. Looks like the math they do when they're calculating RAM bandwidth.

 

[TheCloser]

That was a very good read. Thank you.

Additional:



Source here:-

http://www.psu.com/forums/showthrea...ip-Conference-XBOX-One-Silicon-(Update)/page7

Theres a lot of rubbish in here. Lots of rubbish.

 

[Codeblew]

I disagree entirely with the use of "a lot." There's a lot of people that know how to say something, and sound like they know what they're talking about, but usually that's highly misleading, because whenever I've shown some of it to a friend in game development to have a look at it and address the validity of the argument, they just say in as polite a way as they can, that's just not accurate, and then they go into a whole explanation for why, an explanation I obviously don't fully comprehend, but it makes sense in the moment when I'm being assisted in understanding what they're talking about. So, without insulting anybody, and it isn't my intent, no, there isn't a lot of people that understand tech as much as they appear to. They're just extremely good at sounding competent and highly proficient while doing so. And, mind you, some of these posts were the ones I actually liked or agreed with, and thought were really well put.

Well, you have to be somewhat technical to figure out which people make sense and which people don't. I should also point out that just because you are a game developer, doesn't mean you understand the hardware. If the guys coding the API did a good job, developers don't have to know much about the hardware. However, it definitely helps to understand the hardware and how the API/OS interacts with it in order to make intelligent design decisions in your code.

I agree, maybe 'a lot' was the wrong term.

 

[TheCloser]

I clearly must not have read as many of his posts as you have, but the guy seems pretty damn neutral. Got any examples?

Just because someone writes a whole bunch of technical jargon you don't understand doesn't it make it correct. Go do some research if you want to truly understand it for yourself.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Well, you have to be somewhat technical to figure out which people make sense and which people don't. I should also point out that just because you are a game developer, doesn't mean you understand the hardware. If the guys coding the API did a good job, developers don't have to know much about the hardware. However, it definitely helps to understand the hardware and how the API/OS interacts with it in order to make intelligent design decisions in your code.

I agree, maybe 'a lot' was the wrong term.

Developer I'm referring to is a programmer for a first party development studio working on Xbox One.

Posts I showed them were some general GPU related stuff and stuff specific to the Xbox One, and a surprising number of those posts, some I thought made sense, were stated to be inaccurate, in some instances, wildly inaccurate, but it looked impressive enough on delivery. So, it's hard to say sometimes. But yea, ' a lot' is def not term I'd use

 

[timlot]

Whenever I see these technical threads where the XBone is just getting bashed with all this technomombojombo I think, "well what does this mean for actually games".

Then I'm reminded...

 

[nib95]

Well, you have to be somewhat technical to figure out which people make sense and which people don't. I should also point out that just because you are a game developer, doesn't mean you understand the hardware. If the guys coding the API did a good job, developers don't have to know much about the hardware. However, it definitely helps to understand the hardware and how the API/OS interacts with it in order to make intelligent design decisions in your code.

I agree, maybe 'a lot' was the wrong term.

This is SenjutsuSage you're talking about.. Do not take anything he says or posts with more than a grain of salt. We're on secret sauce mk XV at this point.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

This is SenjutsuSage you're talking about.. Do not take anything he says or posts with more than a grain of salt. We're on secret sauce mk XV at this point.

That's funny coming from you, but I digress.

 

[Chobel]

Just because someone writes a whole bunch of technical jargon you don't understand doesn't it make it correct. Go do some research if you want to truly understand it for yourself.

^This.

[offtopic] Da fuck man.I stole that picture first =P[/offtopic]

 

[USC-fan]

That "mynd" guy he's quoting knows jack shit about GPU's and also a certified console warrior. I'd steer clear of quoting anything he says.
http://n4g.com/user/comments/mynd/all/1

Isnt that guy deadmeat? Someone was saying that who that guy is from a thread where his post turned up couple month ago on b3d... If true no one should be quoting that guy. How is that guy a mod on Playstation site? lol

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=53626257&postcount=1926

Wow craziness

 

[nib95]

That's funny coming from you, but I digress.

I pretty much never post random unsubstantiated fluff posts and pieces from random corners of the internet and forums from known warriors to try and constantly buff up a particular team, you on the other hand have done exactly that countless times.

 

[travisbickle]

1.84 TFLOPS (+40%)
57.6 GTex/s (+40%)
25.6 GPix/s (+90%)

170% difference

Don't joke about it. That's how SenjutsuSage worked out the XOne's RAM bandwith.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I pretty much never post random unsubstantiated fluff posts and pieces from random corners of the internet and forums from known warriors to try and constantly buff up a particular team, you on the other hand have done exactly that countless times.

First of all, it wasn't I who went ahead and posted any of that guy's stuff to somehow prove a point. Someone else did, seeming to pass it off as their own, without sourcing where it came from, and I simply pointed people to where I know that's coming from, because I remember reading it.

Separately, if by fluff posts you mean some of the stuff I've posted from people on beyond3D, then you really do have no idea what you're talking about, because some of the stuff I've posted has either come from someone that actually worked on the Xbox One audio chip personally, or I've posted stuff from a Sony First Party developer, or confirmed game developers that have actually coded for and shipped Xbox 360 or PS3 titles. I don't see where the 'fluff' is in that. And if by fluff 'piece', you mean articles from websites such as Eurogamer or Anandtech with proven track records, especially when some of that stuff has been confirmed to be accurate in one form or another, then all I can do is laugh at the fact that this bothers you.

Outside of that, I hardly ever post anything from some random corner of the internet, so I don't know who you think you're confusing me with.

And, whether you like it or not, just know that when you go around making your console warrior accusations while pretending you yourself are nothing of the sort, or somehow more knowledgeable or qualified to speak about the things that I've posted from people who are either directly hands on with the actual hardware in question, or at least have confirmed contact with people who do, just know that I'm not the person with the mentality of a warrior, it is you. Exactly as others have said, there's this amazing degree of hutzpah where people like to pretend as if they somehow know more and can speak about what's going on in these machines with greater understanding than people who are actually qualified (not saying I'm one such individual, because I'm not. Some won't even admit that much.) to do so. These folks aren't disregarding the views of armchair, wannabe engineers, nope. In many cases, actual engineers somehow don't know what they're talking about if they aren't saying what you wish to hear. Not armchair programmers, but in many cases, actual game programmers that have years of experience making videogames, and who have recent and current experience developing games, but whose opinions you classify as 'fluff.' Come on, buddy, give me a break.

Only someone such as yourself can look at some of these people, which I'm quite sure you're not entirely ignorant of, and just shrug them off as somehow not knowing what they're talking about. Hell, I've even posted stuff from Dave Baumann, of all people, that folks on here have outright suggested is meaningless or makes no sense, like the man wouldn't know what he's talking about regarding, of all things, AMD Graphics hardware. Next time look before you jump off that bridge.

 

[FourMyle]

Damn... I can't wait until these systems are released. Those Digital Foundry Vs threads will be glorious.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Damn... I can't wait until these systems are released. Those Digital Foundry Vs threads will be glorious.

For the wrong reasons, I'm sure.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Whenever I see these technical threads where the XBone is just getting bashed with all this technomombojombo I think, "well what does this mean for actually games".

Then I'm reminded...

What does that have to do with hardware? Jesus, some of you...

 

[Surface of Me]

Damn... I can't wait until these systems are released. Those Digital Foundry Vs threads will be glorious.

Wont PS4 just win everytime?

 

[MoneyHats]

Wrong.

The performance difference will actually be greater than 40%.

Not sure if serious....

Its actually a fact that performance on paper does not reflect 1:1 with actual games.

Its ok though, games like Watch Dogs and BF4 will give us a clear idea on what the difference really means in real world situations. This time there will be no common denominator effect if the PC version is the lead and is in fact the superior version, and with PS4 having the easiest architecture with no BS eSram and complicated move engines to reach theoretical bandwidth, there will be no excuse if PS4 games aren't showing a 40% advantage. But if they do and PS4 versions are running 60fps vs 30 for Xbone or a significant difference in visuals, the I'll be eating crow, but I'm pretty confident that I'll be feeding it instead lol.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Wont PS4 just win everytime?

Article will start out.. like "DOWN GOES FRASIER, DOWN GOES FRAZIER, DOWN GOES FRAZIER. PS4 wins!"

 

[TheD]

I don't understand why they bring up comparisons to the Intel x79 platform.

Not only is the bandwidth on the x79 not shared with the GPU (unlike in the XB1), but they also compare it to a x79 running DDR3-1600 in quad channel mode, bar the fact that the XB1 is using higher clocked RAM and thus they should not be using DDR3-1600 for their comparison.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I don't understand why they bring up comparisons to the Intel x79 platform.

Not only is the bandwidth on the x79 not shared with the GPU (unlike in the XB1), but they also compare it to a x79 running DDR3-1600 in quad channel mode, bar the fact that the XB1 is using higher clocked RAM and thus they should not be using DRR3-1600 for their comparison.

It seems ridiculous on it's face, but it's largely a very purposeful and out of context comparison designed to make a larger point of the kind of differing goals or considerations that went into the design of the hardware. And, in that sense, mission accomplished. I'm quite sure a site such as that understands the significance of the comparison they made.

 

[The Flash]

"Hmm, time to see if I got any replies in this thread..."

 

[SniperHunter]

That "mynd" guy he's quoting knows jack shit about GPU's and also a certified console warrior. I'd steer clear of quoting anything he says.
http://n4g.com/user/comments/mynd/all/1

Xbox fans gasping at straws...scouring obscure message boards for a positive spin on xbox tech.

 

[FourMyle]

Isnt that guy deadmeat? Someone was saying that who that guy is from a thread where his post turned up couple month ago on b3d... If true no one should be quoting that guy. How is that guy a mod on Playstation site? lol

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=53626257&postcount=1926

Wow craziness

That "mynd" guy he's quoting knows jack shit about GPU's and also a certified console warrior. I'd steer clear of quoting anything he says.
http://n4g.com/user/comments/mynd/all/1

lmao

Wont PS4 just win everytime?

Even if that is the case, it won't stop people from deluding themselves into thinking the XBONE is just as powerful as the PS4!

 

[Norse]

So Xbox One more efficient than we thought. But its still less powerful than a PS4?

Did the difference in ps3 vs xbox 360 power mean anything in the end? I didnt see any diference and depending on who you asked, one system was supposedly way more powerful than the other if I recall.

 

[TheD]

It seems ridiculous on it's face, but it's largely a very purposeful and out of context comparison designed to make a larger point of the kind of differing goals or considerations that went into the design of the hardware. And, in that sense, mission accomplished. I'm quite sure a site such as that understands the significance of the comparison they made.

No, it is just objectively wrong.
The fact that they state "68GB/s of bandwidth devoted to Jaguar " means that who ever wrote the article is a moron that does not understand what they are talking about.

 

[coldfoot]

I clearly must not have read as many of his posts as you have, but the guy seems pretty damn neutral. Got any examples?

I know he probably sounds neutral to you, but here goes one example:
http://n4g.com/news/650077/ign-bioshock-infinite-will-rock-on-the-ps3#c-4569828
And before you ask, yes it's the same guy from the psu forum.

 

[fritolay]

Did the difference in ps3 vs xbox 360 power mean anything in the end? I didnt see any diference and depending on who you asked, one system was supposedly way more powerful than the other if I recall.

Yeah but repeated over and over what will be easier to program for with less effort will drive dev costs and end product

 

[Surface of Me]

Did the difference in ps3 vs xbox 360 power mean anything in the end? I didnt see any diference and depending on who you asked, one system was supposedly way more powerful than the other if I recall.

Difference wasn't near as much or as obvious, considering 360 and PS3 had such different architectures. I don't think there has ever been a difference this great between competitors, aside from the Wii/Wii U, but that's a bit different.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I know he probably sounds neutral to you, but here goes one example:
http://n4g.com/news/650077/ign-bioshock-infinite-will-rock-on-the-ps3#c-4569828
And before you ask, yes it's the same guy from the psu forum.

Well, now I know to ignore future stuff from him then. I especially hate seeing that one platform being held back by the other excuse, because I really don't think it works that way. Sure, in terms of time and resources, it can be possible in some respects, but if one platform is simply stronger in some regards, or is even easier to develop for like the 360 sure as heck was in comparison to the PS3, then I see no point to the complaining that one platform held back the other. With multi-platform development, you basically live with what the developers are able to achieve on each platform with the available resources, and First Parties will do what they do with exclusive focus on one piece of hardware.

The stronger and easier to develop for system shouldn't be as bad as the platform that actually has more legitimate reasons for not being at a certain level of quality is how I see it.

 

[Heretic]

First of all, it wasn't I who went ahead and posted any of that guy's stuff to somehow prove a point. Someone else did, seeming to pass it off as their own, without sourcing where it came from, and I simply pointed people to where I know that's coming from, because I remember reading it.

Separately, if by fluff posts you mean some of the stuff I've posted from people on beyond3D, then you really do have no idea what you're talking about, because some of the stuff I've posted has either come from someone that actually worked on the Xbox One audio chip personally, or I've posted stuff from a Sony First Party developer, or confirmed game developers that have actually coded for and shipped Xbox 360 or PS3 titles. I don't see where the 'fluff' is in that. And if by fluff 'piece', you mean articles from websites such as Eurogamer or Anandtech with proven track records, especially when some of that stuff has been confirmed to be accurate in one form or another, then all I can do is laugh at the fact that this bothers you.

Outside of that, I hardly ever post anything from some random corner of the internet, so I don't know who you think you're confusing me with.

And, whether you like it or not, just know that when you go around making your console warrior accusations while pretending you yourself are nothing of the sort, or somehow more knowledgeable or qualified to speak about the things that I've posted from people who are either directly hands on with the actual hardware in question, or at least have confirmed contact with people who do, just know that I'm not the person with the mentality of a warrior, it is you. Exactly as others have said, there's this amazing degree of hutzpah where people like to pretend as if they somehow know more and can speak about what's going on in these machines with greater understanding than people who are actually qualified (not saying I'm one such individual, because I'm not. Some won't even admit that much.) to do so. These folks aren't disregarding the views of armchair, wannabe engineers, nope. In many cases, actual engineers somehow don't know what they're talking about if they aren't saying what you wish to hear. Not armchair programmers, but in many cases, actual game programmers that have years of experience making videogames, and who have recent and current experience developing games, but whose opinions you classify as 'fluff.' Come on, buddy, give me a break.

Only someone such as yourself can look at some of these people, which I'm quite sure you're not entirely ignorant of, and just shrug them off as somehow not knowing what they're talking about. Hell, I've even posted stuff from Dave Baumann, of all people, that folks on here have outright suggested is meaningless or makes no sense, like the man wouldn't know what he's talking about regarding, of all things, AMD Graphics hardware. Next time look before you jump off that bridge.

 

[onQ123]

Isnt that guy deadmeat? Someone was saying that who that guy is from a thread where his post turned up couple month ago on b3d... If true no one should be quoting that guy. How is that guy a mod on Playstation site? lol

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=53626257&postcount=1926

Wow craziness

Mynd might love his Xbox but he isn't Deadmeat.

 

[Garrett 2U]

First of all, it wasn't I who went ahead and posted any of that guy's stuff to somehow prove a point. Someone else did, seeming to pass it off as their own, without sourcing where it came from, and I simply pointed people to where I know that's coming from, because I remember reading it.

Separately, if by fluff posts you mean some of the stuff I've posted from people on beyond3D, then you really do have no idea what you're talking about, because some of the stuff I've posted has either come from someone that actually worked on the Xbox One audio chip personally, or I've posted stuff from a Sony First Party developer, or confirmed game developers that have actually coded for and shipped Xbox 360 or PS3 titles. I don't see where the 'fluff' is in that. And if by fluff 'piece', you mean articles from websites such as Eurogamer or Anandtech with proven track records, especially when some of that stuff has been confirmed to be accurate in one form or another, then all I can do is laugh at the fact that this bothers you.

Outside of that, I hardly ever post anything from some random corner of the internet, so I don't know who you think you're confusing me with.

And, whether you like it or not, just know that when you go around making your console warrior accusations while pretending you yourself are nothing of the sort, or somehow more knowledgeable or qualified to speak about the things that I've posted from people who are either directly hands on with the actual hardware in question, or at least have confirmed contact with people who do, just know that I'm not the person with the mentality of a warrior, it is you. Exactly as others have said, there's this amazing degree of hutzpah where people like to pretend as if they somehow know more and can speak about what's going on in these machines with greater understanding than people who are actually qualified (not saying I'm one such individual, because I'm not. Some won't even admit that much.) to do so. These folks aren't disregarding the views of armchair, wannabe engineers, nope. In many cases, actual engineers somehow don't know what they're talking about if they aren't saying what you wish to hear. Not armchair programmers, but in many cases, actual game programmers that have years of experience making videogames, and who have recent and current experience developing games, but whose opinions you classify as 'fluff.' Come on, buddy, give me a break.

Only someone such as yourself can look at some of these people, which I'm quite sure you're not entirely ignorant of, and just shrug them off as somehow not knowing what they're talking about. Hell, I've even posted stuff from Dave Baumann, of all people, that folks on here have outright suggested is meaningless or makes no sense, like the man wouldn't know what he's talking about regarding, of all things, AMD Graphics hardware. Next time look before you jump off that bridge.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

First of all, it wasn't I who went ahead and posted any of that guy's stuff to somehow prove a point. Someone else did, seeming to pass it off as their own, without sourcing where it came from, and I simply pointed people to where I know that's coming from, because I remember reading it.

Separately, if by fluff posts you mean some of the stuff I've posted from people on beyond3D, then you really do have no idea what you're talking about, because some of the stuff I've posted has either come from someone that actually worked on the Xbox One audio chip personally, or I've posted stuff from a Sony First Party developer, or confirmed game developers that have actually coded for and shipped Xbox 360 or PS3 titles. I don't see where the 'fluff' is in that. And if by fluff 'piece', you mean articles from websites such as Eurogamer or Anandtech with proven track records, especially when some of that stuff has been confirmed to be accurate in one form or another, then all I can do is laugh at the fact that this bothers you.

Outside of that, I hardly ever post anything from some random corner of the internet, so I don't know who you think you're confusing me with.

And, whether you like it or not, just know that when you go around making your console warrior accusations while pretending you yourself are nothing of the sort, or somehow more knowledgeable or qualified to speak about the things that I've posted from people who are either directly hands on with the actual hardware in question, or at least have confirmed contact with people who do, just know that I'm not the person with the mentality of a warrior, it is you. Exactly as others have said, there's this amazing degree of hutzpah where people like to pretend as if they somehow know more and can speak about what's going on in these machines with greater understanding than people who are actually qualified (not saying I'm one such individual, because I'm not. Some won't even admit that much.) to do so. These folks aren't disregarding the views of armchair, wannabe engineers, nope. In many cases, actual engineers somehow don't know what they're talking about if they aren't saying what you wish to hear. Not armchair programmers, but in many cases, actual game programmers that have years of experience making videogames, and who have recent and current experience developing games, but whose opinions you classify as 'fluff.' Come on, buddy, give me a break.

Only someone such as yourself can look at some of these people, which I'm quite sure you're not entirely ignorant of, and just shrug them off as somehow not knowing what they're talking about. Hell, I've even posted stuff from Dave Baumann, of all people, that folks on here have outright suggested is meaningless or makes no sense, like the man wouldn't know what he's talking about regarding, of all things, AMD Graphics hardware. Next time look before you jump off that bridge.

 

[godhandiscen]

First of all, it wasn't I who went ahead and posted any of that guy's stuff to somehow prove a point. Someone else did, seeming to pass it off as their own, without sourcing where it came from, and I simply pointed people to where I know that's coming from, because I remember reading it.

Separately, if by fluff posts you mean some of the stuff I've posted from people on beyond3D, then you really do have no idea what you're talking about, because some of the stuff I've posted has either come from someone that actually worked on the Xbox One audio chip personally, or I've posted stuff from a Sony First Party developer, or confirmed game developers that have actually coded for and shipped Xbox 360 or PS3 titles. I don't see where the 'fluff' is in that. And if by fluff 'piece', you mean articles from websites such as Eurogamer or Anandtech with proven track records, especially when some of that stuff has been confirmed to be accurate in one form or another, then all I can do is laugh at the fact that this bothers you.

Outside of that, I hardly ever post anything from some random corner of the internet, so I don't know who you think you're confusing me with.

And, whether you like it or not, just know that when you go around making your console warrior accusations while pretending you yourself are nothing of the sort, or somehow more knowledgeable or qualified to speak about the things that I've posted from people who are either directly hands on with the actual hardware in question, or at least have confirmed contact with people who do, just know that I'm not the person with the mentality of a warrior, it is you. Exactly as others have said, there's this amazing degree of hutzpah where people like to pretend as if they somehow know more and can speak about what's going on in these machines with greater understanding than people who are actually qualified (not saying I'm one such individual, because I'm not. Some won't even admit that much.) to do so. These folks aren't disregarding the views of armchair, wannabe engineers, nope. In many cases, actual engineers somehow don't know what they're talking about if they aren't saying what you wish to hear. Not armchair programmers, but in many cases, actual game programmers that have years of experience making videogames, and who have recent and current experience developing games, but whose opinions you classify as 'fluff.' Come on, buddy, give me a break.

Only someone such as yourself can look at some of these people, which I'm quite sure you're not entirely ignorant of, and just shrug them off as somehow not knowing what they're talking about. Hell, I've even posted stuff from Dave Baumann, of all people, that folks on here have outright suggested is meaningless or makes no sense, like the man wouldn't know what he's talking about regarding, of all things, AMD Graphics hardware. Next time look before you jump off that bridge.

*tips hat*