Support NeoGAF

[clav]

Found this post on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/review/R32G9D1HHDBR45/

Can you imagine buying a car because you know its manufacturer uses great, reliable engines, only to find out that they use completely different engines without telling you, all of which are of lower quality? Samsung does this with their TVs, and some of them don't EVER have Samsung panels (e.g., the 37" model will NEVER have a Samsung panel because they don't make 37" panels). Samsung uses 4 different panel types from four different manufacturers - each with a substantially different technology.

You can tell which panel YOUR TV has by the "Version" on the sticker outside of the box. There's also a sticker on the back of the TV; the "Version" code is below the Model number and above the S/N. BTW, reviews can't be interpreted without the four-digit Version code because they are quite simply different TV's. Here's how to interpret them:
("x" means a number, probably from 1-4, that represents the version of that panel - higher means newer but not always better).

TH0x or TS0x: Samsung S-PVA panel (possibly just a PVA, if you're less lucky): This is what you thought you were buying. Best color, best black, best viewing angles.
HS0x: Sharp ASV panel: Lower contrast ratio, more narrow viewing angle. I read HS02 in particular has terrible ghosting.
A_0X: AOU A-MVA panel: Even lower contrast ratio.
CH0x or CM0x or CS0x: Chimea S-MVA panel: You lost the lottery. Markedly worse in every way - way worse viewing angle, color reproduction, etc. Just a terrible rip-off.

True or false?

Any Samsung HDTV owner here have anything to say about this?

 

[UFRA]

Found this after a brief search:

http://www.digitalversus.com/panel-switching-samsung-tvs-we-know-so-far-n15170.html

Probably is true.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Any Samsung HDTV owner here have anything to say about this?

I have a 5 year old, 40" 1080p LCD (living room) and a 2 year old 32" 1080p LCD (bedroom) from Samsung. I don't care where they get their panels. I had heard at one time they used the same people as Sony for at least some of their screens, I don't know if it is or was true, but again, it's not like it matters to me.

I also have a 39" LED (spare room/office) from Westinghouse.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

The entry-level models of TVs almost always have panels from the same one or two different Chinese corporations.

 

[Mudkips]

True.
I don't even know how that shit is legal. I hate playing the hidden model number lottery.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Yeah, back around 2006/7 I was shopping for a 40" Samsung there were 3 or 4 panels going around for the same model of TV.

I think they had an 'S' for S-PVA ('C' was one of the cheaper panels) on the box itself, definitely had it on the back of the TV too. I got an S-PVA and although the contrast was nice it had awful trailing blacks, some of the shittier panels didn't suffer so bad but sucked elsewhere.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Its certainly true.

Never buy a TV because you hear the name and associate it with good products.

Find a size range you like. Find what the best in that field is for your price range and then do some research into the models even better get some test viewings. Most electrical stores are dying to sell a high value item to you and will do the most ridiculous things to get you to buy. Iv heard of people specially requesting movies to view because of the color pallets they use.

As a side note to this always ensure you have the TV set up correctly. Iv had friends who bitched and moaned that their TV was dim light and colors looked terrible on it only to find they used some god awful preset along side eco settings which ruined the TVs backlight

 

[clav]

True.
I don't even know how that shit is legal. I hate playing the hidden model number lottery.

That is pretty criminal.

I knew there was something wrong when people made a blanket statement about Samsung TVs.

Guess I'll do my homework and research the internals for each TV that interests me.

 

[Loofy]

What about LG?

 

[clav]

What about LG?

Probably would be the same.

 

[DeSo]

It's true.

I played the lottery and lost. I got an Au Optronics panel. Amazing how this shit is legal. Thankfully it was only a cheap 32 inch and it's probably still better than my five year old CCFL LCD.

I think I'll pay a bit extra next time and go Sony, don't think they engage in this rubbish.

This is a bump, but more people need to be aware of this shit that Samsung pull.

 

[Whiteshirt]

Sony still does panel lottery with certain devices (I suspect its difficult to source panels from only one manufacturer) but I'm not sure if they do it with their current TVs. Either way, their TVs look pretty good, aren't stupidly priced anymore, and they all basically have universally good input lag. They're a solid choice if you're looking for a TV for gaming.

I suspect nothing has changed because not enough people hold the manufacturer accountable for this. It used to be common place in the monitor market but people paying for higher end monitors are far, far more demanding of what they get. You used to get panel lottery between S-PVA and IPS but enough people gave Dell and Co. shit about it.

 

[Jafku]

It's true. Recently bought a 40" TV from Samsung. Thankfully I got a TS01 panel which is a Samsung panel.

 

[quaere]

Not an issue on plasmas though. A Samsung PDP is a Samsung, same with Panasonic and LG.

 

[TronLight]

Just checked mine, a 32" LED bought last year.
Looks like I won the lottery, letter A in the service menu, so it's a Samsung panel. :lol

But yeah, it's kind of shady... At the very least they should have some kind of strict qualit control over the panels that aren't made by them.

 

[Autumn Wind]

Is this as bad say as when you're playing the retina MacBook Pro lottery between LG and Samsung?

 

[DonasaurusRex]

for the longest time sharp made a bulk of LCD screens so thats no surprise to see their name in the list. Nor is it to see screens from newer chinese manufacturers because you know, slavery. I thought Samsung and Sony had some joint production deal for screens too. Different companies make different screens, Sharp does MVA, chimei S-MVA, Samsung S-PVA. Its too expensive for them to have all those panels in production on their own. I wouldnt be surprised if this were true, wouldn't be the first time.

 

[aku:jiki]

I'm surprised that people are surprised. This is a very common practice in pretty much all industries. Lots of brands just buy whatever the factory is offering, slap it in their own box and sell it as their product. Goes for everything from, like, toothpaste to clothing to electronics. Never blindly trust brands under any circumstance.

 

[entremet]

I'm surprised that people are surprised. This is a very common practice in pretty much all industries. Lots of brands just buy whatever the factory is offering, slap it in their own box and sell it as their product. Goes for everything from, like, toothpaste to clothing to electronics. Never blindly trust brands under any circumstance.

Yep. This is nothing new.

It's why it's important to research your purchases.

 

[DeSo]

I researched extensively and spun the wheel.

I lost. Ah well. It's still shady as fuck.

 

[WorriedCitizen]

What do you expect? Samsung is a cheap brand (granted the quality is often times pretty good for the price). And the comparison with the car engine is a bit silly because car parts come from all kinds of places before they get assembled in the factory. It's the same thing.

 

[Funky Papa]

This is the reason why I won't purchase another Samsung TV in the foreseeable future. I bought an expensive-ish model for my parents back when 40" was still a big size for LCD TVs, only to find out that I got a Chinese panel. The quality was actually quite decent, being a somewhat mid to high-end set, but it wasn't the same as the reference Samsung model. Viewing angles in particular were a bit narrower and blacks were definitely off in comparison.

It amazes me that Samsung (or any other manufacturer, really) can play the good old switcheroo, specially when sometimes there's a large difference in quality. I've seen some of those 3x-inch models and they can look pretty bad. Blacks, viewing angles and banding are just ugh. I still don't understand how they are not being sued over it.

Edit: Come on, folks, this is not a matter of research or "oops" parts sourcing. Samsung may manufacture TVs to a high standard at first, only to switch to lower quality panels down the line without further notice. How's the consumer expected to know what kind of panel uses his TV? In my case I had to learn about it by checking the sticker in the back of the set. That's hardly an option until you already bought it. If I spend €1,600 on a TV I very much expect to get decent components, not to mention quality as good as advertised.

 

[DeSo]

What do you expect? Samsung is a cheap brand

What the fuck really?

Is this what Samsung have come to? A "cheap brand"? I guess you're right really.

 

[Espada]

Yup, the panel lottery is well known over on AVSForum. People research and research to avoid winding up with crappy LCD panels in their $1000+ HDTV. In the case of the F7100 series, any model larger than 55" uses Sharp panels. Everyone interested in those sets is recommended to check the TV's serial and other details to figure what they got.

I honestly don't know how this is legal, since you're actually buying a Sharp TV with Samsung's brand on it a lot of the time.

 

[TCRS]

Mine just says version no. 01. It's a UE40EH5200S. what does that mean?

 

[lednerg]

Apple uses Samsung screens for some of their products. Black is white. Up is down. The Dark Side of the Moon wasn't necessarily as good as Animals. Things are Fucked Up, Man.

 

[YoungFa]

This isn't new practice. When researching screens for buying a new LCD-Screen a few years ago, alot of reviewers and customers pointed out to pay attention to the version suffix since it defines which panels are used. I always thought that this is common.

 

[DeSo]

Apple uses Samsung screens for some of their products. Black is white. Up is down. The Dark Side of the Moon wasn't really as good as Animals. Things are Fucked Up, Man.

Not even fucking comparable.

 

[WorriedCitizen]

What the fuck really?

Is this what Samsung have come to? A "cheap brand"? I guess you're right really.

Cheap in as the price tag of the products. Always was. When you buy a Samsung you get a decent product for little money but don't ever think you bought the Rolls Royce of TV screens. It's more comparable to a Volkswagon (to stay with the car comparisons).

 

[Kiraly]

Is this as bad say as when you're playing the retina MacBook Pro lottery between LG and Samsung?

It is.

Fucking panel lottery is in everything; televisions, laptops and smartphones.

 

[Funky Papa]

Cheap in as the price tag of the products. Always was. When you buy a Samsung you get a decent product for little money but don't ever think you bought the Rolls Royce of TV screens. It's more comparable to a Volkswagon (to stay with the car comparisons).

Volkswagen also manufacturers the Phaeton and the Touareg, which is why I'd be pissed off to no end if I purchased one of those and found a Yugo under the bodywork.

 

[DeSo]

When you buy a Samsung you get a decent product for little money but don't ever think you bought the Rolls Royce of TV screens..

I expect a Samsung product.

 

[jts]

Volkswagen also manufacturers the Phaeton and the Touareg, which is why I'd be pissed off to no end if I purchased one of those and found a Yugo under the bodywork.

You can buy a Mercedes and find a Renault engine under the hood these days...

 

[vazel]

I'm surprised that people are surprised. This is a very common practice in pretty much all industries. Lots of brands just buy whatever the factory is offering, slap it in their own box and sell it as their product. Goes for everything from, like, toothpaste to clothing to electronics. Never blindly trust brands under any circumstance.

What makes Samsung's case special is they source the screens on the same model from different manufacturers which causes a variance in PQ. When other brands source different components that impact device quality they at least use a new model number or some other revision indicator.

Edit: Oh nvm, I see Samsung does have revision stickers on their boxes. I don't see what the problem is here for educated consumers. Everyone else won't care.

 

[Funky Papa]

You can buy a Mercedes and find a Renault engine under the hood these days...

But that's not a hidden fact. And said Renault engines perform exactly as expected from their listed specs.

When you buy a 200 CDI A-Class you know you are getting a 136 PS engine with an homologated fuel consumption of 4.3 L/100 km. When you buy a Samsung TV... you don't know what the fuck you are getting.

 

[lednerg]

Not even fucking comparable.

Whatever, Maynerd. Samsung is set to rule the world in 5 years or so anyway. It's no big deal - you'll get your comeuppance.

 

[Horsemama1956]

Cheap in as the price tag of the products. Always was. When you buy a Samsung you get a decent product for little money but don't ever think you bought the Rolls Royce of TV screens. It's more comparable to a Volkswagon (to stay with the car comparisons).

Cheap is what sells. They make higher end sets, like everyone else. You're making it sound like they are a generic brand.

Hell, I don't think Sony even makes their own panels anymore, and they still charge a premium for their name, which isn't worth much these days.

 

[DeSo]

Whatever, Maynerd. Samsung is set to rule the world in 5 years or so anyway. It's no big deal - you'll get your comeuppance.

Yeah, not getting what you paid for is "no big deal". How many movies do you watch on a fucking smartphone? How many console games do you play on a smartphone?

Idiot.

 

[Funky Papa]

Edit: Oh nvm, I see Samsung does have revision stickers on their boxes. I don't see what the problem is here for educated consumers. Everyone else won't care.

Consumers shouldn't have to cross-reference cryptic alphanumeric codes on a sticker (which may not even be stuck at the box) with user-made databases on the internet to see if they are getting their money's worth.

What the fuck.

 

[lednerg]

Yeah, not getting what you paid for is "no big deal".

Idiot.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I thought I was playing along. Um... The thing you want is the thing that should happen. Is that alright?

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

Apple uses Samsung screens for some of their products.

Most PC/widget makers source parts from a variety of sources; the big problem is when it's advertised as one thing and you get another— such as in the mid '00s and some Dell monitors that used IPS panels in the first few production runs then switched to cheaper and inferior MVA (or even TN) panels after the reviews were in.

 

[DeSo]

Edit: Oh nvm, I see Samsung does have revision stickers on their boxes

HA!

No!

This is the extent I researched this. Here in Australia the panel version was not on the box at all. Last year I went to three stores and there were no panel versions on the boxes at all. It is a total lottery here and it is bullshit.

 

[Talon]

What the fuck really?

Is this what Samsung have come to? A "cheap brand"? I guess you're right really.

I mean, they started off as a commodity brand in competition to Sony, Hitachi and Toshiba. Now they're larger than those 3 - granted the television industry in particular is a fucking race to the bottom.

Except for Panasonic. God Bless Panasonic.

 

[vazel]

I mean, they started off as a commodity brand in competition to Sony, Hitachi and Toshiba. Now they're larger than those 3 - granted the television industry in particular is a fucking race to the bottom.

Except for Panasonic. God Bless Panasonic.

I've always seen Samsung LCD HDTVs as being for plebs. They oversaturate their colors to make them look better to the average joe. If you want quality you go with Sony or get a plasma.

 

[DeSo]

Oh great now we've got the, "well you shouldn't have bought Samsung" people here.

That'll do me.

 

[Funky Papa]

HA!

No!

This is the extent I researched this. Here in Australia the panel version was not on the box at all. Last year I went to three stores and there were no panel versions on the boxes at all. It is a total lottery here and it is bullshit.

I had to use the code on the sticker at the back of the TV to check my parent's panel. It wasn't on the box. Surely, getting your TV delivered and opened in front of you so you can check the serial number and send it back to the shop if it doesn't convince you is not an option for neither consumers nor vendors.

People claiming that this issue is no such thing for educated consumers (hint: it shouldn't be for any kind of consumer) need to understand that manufacturers try to cover these practices as much as they can. I mean, even the people at AVSForum are vexxed by this shit.

 

[DeSo]

Thank fucking you Funky.

 

[vazel]

Oh great now we've got the, "well you shouldn't have bought Samsung" people here.

That'll do me.

It's no secret that Samsung screws with their colors to make them 'pop' more. Next time be sure to spend copious amounts of time trawling through elitist posts on HT forums.

Go watch an F8500 plasma and tell me it's for 'plebs'. Samsung has a crazy amount of panels at every price point. The F8500 in particular has some of the best PQ ever - backed up BT professional reviews.

Except I'm talking about their LCD HDTVs. Says so in that post you quoted.

 

[Heisenberg]

Cheap in as the price tag of the products. Always was. When you buy a Samsung you get a decent product for little money but don't ever think you bought the Rolls Royce of TV screens. It's more comparable to a Volkswagon (to stay with the car comparisons).

Depends on the products. They make some of the best high-end TV's on the market along with Panasonic.

I've always seen Samsung LCD HDTVs as being for plebs. They oversaturate their colors to make them look better to the average joe. If you want quality you go with Sony or get a plasma.

Go watch an F8500 plasma and tell me it's for 'plebs'. Samsung has a crazy amount of panels at every price point. The F8500 in particular has some of the best PQ ever - backed up BT professional reviews.

EDIT: I see you said LCD but the point still stands. Hell, Sony LCDs have had horrible problems with flashlighting and uniformity issues for years.

 

[WorriedCitizen]

Oh great now we've got the, "well you shouldn't have bought Samsung" people here.

It's what it boils down to ultimately. I've burned myself twice with Samsung this year. First screen had really nice colors and contrast but horrible ghosting. Second screen has dithering problems. But in the end i have to blame myself for trying to cut financial corners by ordering Samsung. That's just what it is. Consequence should be to either send it back or buy something else next time. If they want to hurt their brand image like that it's their decission.