mangochutney
Member
Yeah, I was cautious not use quote his figures - he could have just been using them as a small, simple example.
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Resolution gate infintyward responds eurogamer
- Thread starter madmackem
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So, the implicit/explicit talking points, consistently the same in all articles from IGN/DF/EDGE are:
- It's a software issue, not a hardware issue. (Resource allocation). Could be changed in the future.
- You can't say that one system is more powerful.
- We don't get the drama, it's not an issue. Both look great.
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
Racing and sports games by their nature require less resources than other types of games
I don't know why people keep bringing up Forza. The game is not really a looker, uses baked lighting/reflections, and is a completely different genre, not to mention that first party teams spend 100% of their time trying to get the game to look and play ok on their respective platforms.
Apparently you missed all the comments where no one really gave a shit about the framerate. Including some comments here.
Killing_Joke
Member
I'm not saying its less powerful..
but its less powerful
Yup, we're NEVER going to get a direct answer. But if the flood of 720p news didn't convince people that X1 has weaker specs then I don't know what will.
Most probably because of different rendering approaches (deferred vs. forward) and the ESRAM's size limitation.
FranXico
Member
The Forza engine is lighter on the hardware than the CoD:Ghosts engine?
Who knows how much, besides porting it to the One actually was upgraded?
Again. Baked, non-dynamic lighting. Closed track racer. Rumored no AA.
Still a little bit of politics but yeah, it helps that this is a 3rd party dev.
Forza 5 is an exclusive. COD is on 6 platforms.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
PS4 is more powerful than XB1 full stop.
With that said, we won't know how much more "real world" visual difference there will be between the two systems 1 or 2 years post-launch until we get there. You certainly can't simply point at specs or the 720p vs 900p/1080p difference in two launch games and come to a lasting conclusion because there are many variables in play right now. I think ultimately the visual difference, if you could quantify it, will sit in the 5-20% range in favor of the PS4 after 18 months on market.
At launch, if you take a cross-section of 100 console owners out there (some dudebros, some 10-year olds, some hardcore, some girls, etc.) and had them play through the launch line-ups of both systems and then surveyed them on which system has better "looking" games overall, I think that number would be pretty evenly split. One the PS4 side, you have Killzone and sharper Battlefield/COD and maybe others, but on the XB1 side, you have Ryse, KI, DR3, Forza, and some same-looking multis weighing in on it's "graphical scale" so to speak.
I think a combination of the following factors (and more) have played a part in the discrepancy between COD/Battlefield versions: 1) console horsepower 2) resource allocation 3) state of technical documentation and support 4) timing of software/hardware kits released to developers 5) time/resources allocated to each version by devs 6) crunch time of hitting launch 7) XB1 being more complicated to develop for, etc. All of those factors are variable and will continue to change over time and are different from game to game, developer to developer. Will the visual gap stay the same or get larger over time? No one knows for sure. It's just speculation at this point. I think, just like now, there will be some difference, but most won't notice or care all that much (see 360 vs PS3)
With that said, we won't know how much more "real world" visual difference there will be between the two systems 1 or 2 years post-launch until we get there. You certainly can't simply point at specs or the 720p vs 900p/1080p difference in two launch games and come to a lasting conclusion because there are many variables in play right now. I think ultimately the visual difference, if you could quantify it, will sit in the 5-20% range in favor of the PS4 after 18 months on market.
At launch, if you take a cross-section of 100 console owners out there (some dudebros, some 10-year olds, some hardcore, some girls, etc.) and had them play through the launch line-ups of both systems and then surveyed them on which system has better "looking" games overall, I think that number would be pretty evenly split. One the PS4 side, you have Killzone and sharper Battlefield/COD and maybe others, but on the XB1 side, you have Ryse, KI, DR3, Forza, and some same-looking multis weighing in on it's "graphical scale" so to speak.
I think a combination of the following factors (and more) have played a part in the discrepancy between COD/Battlefield versions: 1) console horsepower 2) resource allocation 3) state of technical documentation and support 4) timing of software/hardware kits released to developers 5) time/resources allocated to each version by devs 6) crunch time of hitting launch 7) XB1 being more complicated to develop for, etc. All of those factors are variable and will continue to change over time and are different from game to game, developer to developer. Will the visual gap stay the same or get larger over time? No one knows for sure. It's just speculation at this point. I think, just like now, there will be some difference, but most won't notice or care all that much (see 360 vs PS3)
Obviously COD will ALWAYS target 60FPS. I doubt 30 was ever an option.
They probably had it running at 1080 with low framerate hoping MS would get this shit together in time for launch.
Considering I phrased it as a question I would say that it sounds just as it is..a question. I am not a developer and have no hands on with the One itself. This is one area I really don't understand that well.
bearlabored
Member
You are right, it is debunked, he is talked about constantly changing os environment with different amount of resources to use.
This implying they don't develop chat by themselves.
Iorv3th
Member
Oh god, the comments on that article:
"Xbox One will be 1080p on my TV, what else you got??"
"Be it PS4 and Xbox One, there isn't a clear, finite answer on which one looks better. It's all a matter of opinion."
"because IW got the xbox one dev kits late and the PS4 dev kits early. sony isn't afraid of anybody stealing their ideas because they don't have any original ones anymore but MS released the dev kits late so sony wouldn't have enough time to copy any new ideas from the xbox hardware and OS."
"only ps gamer care about COD. PC and xbox gamer have titanfall"
Just terrible.
Crimson_Gold
Member
This is painful to read. Seriously, do people really believe this stuff when they type it. I wish that those were all just troll accounts. I know that they aren't though.
I just take your tag's advise.
Some people are really desperate to badmouth our insiders.
jesus christ
Honestly, I wonder just where the software was being bottle-necked. They seem to be focusing heavily on tessellation as the core graphics improvement in Ghosts but it seems to me they would have been better off eliminating or minimizing such details (if they were the cause) in favor of matching the resolution. Keeping tessellation cranked up hardly makes sense when you're at 720p. Maybe the PC version will give us some ideas as to which additions made to the engine are most demanding. It seems to me that they wanted to include all of the visual features present on PS4 and PC in the Xbox game and were willing to massively drop the resolution to achieve it.
I'm still dumbstruck that people are trying to paint 720p vs 1080p as nothing major. I mean, higher resolutions were always clearly one of the things that pushed PC games up another level and most journalists that played on PC were very aware of this. It was plain as day. People quibbled over minor 5% differences in resolution between PS3 and 360 games and now suddenly 125% doesn't matter?
BruiserBear
Banned
Well sure, but it would require developers to rewrite the engine their game runs on, and most are never going to jump through that many hoops for one platform.
Lets also not forget Turn 10 is a very big studio ~400 people.
NTIETS13A_Superiority
Banned
It is taking away game recourses. If it was part of os it would take away os recourses. OR do you think they constantly change os recourse usage/allocations? It would be dick move to game devs. This says, when voice-chat recourses change, game recourses change too, so voice chat is part of game recourses. MS provides game devs implement is how i understand it.
hellmonkey
Member
I really doubt the difference will be that small. Ps4 devs/tools will also improve. The xbone isn't chasing a static target. As far as "looking good", DR3 and Forza do not look good. Im sure they are/will be fun as hell, and that is the important part, but they are not good looking. You also left out Infamous 2nd Son and The Order from ps4 side.
A 5-20% difference might be for 3rd party multi plat titles, but we cant say for sure. 3rd parties have to somewhat compete with 1st party to match eye candy. They cant look poopy or fans will get pissed.
dr_rus
Member
There were several 1080p games on 360 and PS3. So "the potential" was there but somehow all the CoDs and BFs ran at 720p or lower.
The hardware is completely capable of rendering at 1080p. To get good graphics out of it which will be better than this gen graphics while doing this is a completely different thing however.
Neither, unfortunately, it could go either way from that.
I'll take both for 100 dollars cheaper Alex.
dr_rus
Member
Tesselation has close to zero impact on fillrate which is the main source of a resolution disparity. The first obvious thing to consider removing here is AA but I think that it's safe to assume that both versions are using post-AA so removing that won't help. Next up is lowering the pixel shader complexity which would probably help but at the same time we'd probably end up with XBO version looking the same as 360 version but in 1080p.
That is the most amusing part of this all. For years the differences between consoles have been the center of heated debates, and yet the massive differences between console and PC versions are quietly ignored.
While I have no immediate plans to purchase either console, I do find quite depressing the relatively weak advancement in hardware. Perhaps even more so the fact developers feel obligated to push graphical effects over frame rate or resolution.
Seems for whatever reason that at 60fps 720p is the sweet spot (so far) on the Xbox One though he did say it was a combination of things that held it back. He does seem to focus an awful lot of voice chat for some reason
My guess is that the ESRAM for whatever reason is much happier at 720p. I know resolution is a memory hog and you want really fast memory for it. AMD GPUs on PCs tend to be faster than Nvidia on very high resolutions because they have more memory bandwidth. Could be that it also matches well with the smaller GPU core in the One as well so it might be very balanced
at 720p
Need to buy a PC then if you want both. All the big games for the new consoles appear to be making sacrifices to do one or the other. Ryse is 900p 30fps. Killzone single player cant do locked 60 fps in single player. Killer Instinct (a bloody fighting game) is running at 720p. We waited 8 years for this?
I'm just stating that you can't really compare two different games running at the same resolution and use that as a gauge for saying "see, it can do 1080P". No one is saying the Xbone CAN'T do 1080P. It simply can't do it at the same level of graphic fidelity / FPS as the PS4 can for most games.
Most people didn't even play Crysis 3 at 60fps, and Shadow Fall is of that ilk (more open ended and large scale). But moving on, a lot of people won't go PC because of convenience, cost and lack of a resale or trade-in market. They just want the most affordable, most powerful best bang for buck console you can get. Otherwise they'd all be PC gamers.
As well as Rubin manages to thread the PR needle here, there still seems to be a good bit of tacit confirmation of what the rumors have been saying over the past few months now.
It's totally different people, man! We've all grown so much since those days.dark10x said:
DragonSworne
Banned
A single frame at 1080p takes 7.910MB of the ESRAM. (1920x1080x32). Add in prefetched data, additional mapping needed for shadows and other effects and AA, the ESRAM gets quickly exhausted. 720p is the only answer.
Given that effects are going to get more abundent and complex, it is actually LESS likely we will see 1080p games on the Xbox One in the future.
People need to start facing reality.
Given that effects are going to get more abundent and complex, it is actually LESS likely we will see 1080p games on the Xbox One in the future.
People need to start facing reality.
plagiarize
Banned
Killzone isn't doing locked 60 fps in multiplayer either, but I think it's a pretty impressive bump. last gen it mostly ran at 30 fps, with occasional drops, at 720p. bumping that up to 30+ at 1080p... that a big increase.
Ryse is much higher res than Crysis 3 (which was sub 720p on both consoles), and is rendering more expansive environments with way more going on in them... it looks better in every way.
I think the fact that the PS4 is notably more powerful than the Xbox One is leading to people ignoring that, whatever we say about Forza 5, it absolutely looks much better than Forza 4.
BF4 on Xbox One? Clearly outclasses the 360 version in every way.
Etc etc. There's still a hefty next gen bump, even within these lower resolutions when contrasted to the PS4. Rubin's right about that part. Most people will be buying one or the other (this winter at least) and most of those people will likely be happy with the graphics they see at home on their TV.
We shouldn't downplay the difference in power between the two consoles, because it's something a lot of people will want to factor into their purchase decision (along with price, controller, what their friends are getting, etc, but power remains an important factor), but I think it's more a case of Xbox One: Good, PlayStation 4: Great.
PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
Link?
Sword Of Doom
Member
I think 60fps is difficult to hit above 720p for some reason. Only game that's don't 60fps above 720p on the XB1 has been Forza
ethomaz
Banned
I think you can ask help if you have issues.
CoD is a big name... so MS supported IW with everything they have... the PS4 version was running fine so I think IW didn't asked help from Sony.
Muppet of a Man
Member
I don't understand how having between 50% and 125% more pixels on the screen at the same or better frame rate with additional effects is now somehow a trivial difference in terms of console power, when last gen people were up in arms over much smaller resolution and/or performance differences.
It simply is hilariously bad mental gymnastics at this point.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Not usually, but Sony did it for the PS3 IIRC. When AAA system seller titles are going to be significantly worse on a specific platform, the platform holder will help out and do some heavy lifting. That they had help from MS and still weren't able to get 900p doesn't bode well IMO.
People who have dropped $500 on the Xbox preorder will find some way to rationalize their decision.
It's too late for them to get a launch day PS4. I bet if somehow Sony was able to ensure everyone could get a launch PS4, most of these comments would instead say "cancelled my Xbox preorder".
Dark Octave
Banned
Next time you have to choose a name for anything just hit random keys and press enter.
GameSeeker
Member
Yes, those are the talking points (i.e., the spin PR is trying to put on the facts).
Known facts:
1) PS4 hardware is significantly more powerful than the Xbone (verified by every developer on GAF who has posted on the issue).
2) The ESRAM on the Xbone makes programming more complicated than on the PS4.
3) Xbone software overhead is higher and the tools are more immature compared to the PS4.
The proof of the facts are in the games. Other than Forza 5, very few games on the Xbone are hitting 1080p and even fewer are hitting 1080p @ 60fps. On the PS4 90%+ of the games are 1080p, with many hitting 60fps.