He's now a much more interesting character than he's ever been that's for sure.

I've only come to know about the change in Cyclops through conversations on GAF. I will say this, he was a boring ass character for years and years. From what I can tell, Marvel has done an excellent job in making people want to at least talk about him, where he previously would only have received attention via his rivalry with Wolverine.

Frankly, his current attitude makes me want to read more about him. Never would have said that before.

FairyD said:

Freedom cyclops is my favourite at the moment. He's doing what needs to be done to make sure mutants survive.

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Yeah I agree current cyke is great.

Dat smug grin.

Angelus Errare said:

Kitty's reason for leaving though was still the dumbest thing I read in a while. Her whole tantrum was just...horribly done.

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It's a Bendis book. When has he ever cared about consistent characterization or story logic?

kswiston said:

It's a Bendis book. When has he ever cared about consistent characterization or story logic?

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Alias?

gketter said:

Current Cyke is a jerk

Bring back classic Cyke or at least Whedon's version of Cyclops

You can be a good leader and not become Magneto jr

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No, thats not how marvel leader ship works, everyone who is a leader of anything is super asshole. This has been the way since marvel made bank on civil war. This keeps parrallax is a perpetual salt continuum, having to acknowledge this has been influencing marvel since its conception because everyone liked it.

Hell they even have an super ass hole leader secret club, and they call it the illuminatti. Do you know how pompous that is?

Slayven said:

Alias?

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I guess I should have narrowed it down to characters that weren't his creations.

Still, most of his best work was 10+ years ago. His superhero books are all over the place.

Slayven said:

The groundwork was there, like how Prof X use to mindwipe mutants that refused to join the X-men.

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Or sealing off Jean's telepathy.

I don't really follow comic books but can anybody tell why is cyke a jerk now?

zyy said:

I don't really follow comic books but can anybody tell why is cyke a jerk now?

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Seems to me that Cyclops and Wolverine have now adopted the roles of Magneto and Xavier.

So i guess OP has a "Cyclops was right" shirt in his closet?

Also, lol at 1st post.

Slayven said:

Cyke's secondary mutation is to exude either

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So am I missing something or isn't this how everybody defends the stuff Scott's done? "Yeah it was stupid and bad but hey it was for a greater good so it's okay!"

I mean it's all fine and dandy to want to revive the mutant race when you think of the mutant race as a bunch of people with cool abilities like telepathy and levitation, but some folks had horrible physical mutations that kinda prevented them from ever leading lives even remotely similar to Scott's, and some kids had powers that out and out sucked.

Like, wasn't there a mutant who killed people upon physical contact? Why would you ever will that onto someone?

This stuff looks interesting. I've got Marvel Now; what runs should I be reading?

Not sure how much it overlaps, but Civil War looked really dumb to me.

CorvoSol said:

So am I missing something or isn't this how everybody defends the stuff Scott's done? "Yeah it was stupid and bad but hey it was for a greater good so it's okay!"

I mean it's all fine and dandy to want to revive the mutant race when you think of the mutant race as a bunch of people with cool abilities like telepathy and levitation, but some folks had horrible physical mutations that kinda prevented them from ever leading lives even remotely similar to Scott's, and some kids had powers that out and out sucked.

Like, wasn't there a mutant who killed people upon physical contact? Why would you ever will that onto someone?

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And many humans are born with hellish diseases and disabilities, some people getting a bad hand in genetic lottery doesn't mean shit when your species is facing extinction.

And again it's not like the Avengers or anyone else gave a shit about your concerns, they ALL wanted mutants back, Avengers were just scared of the phoenix.

The Silver said:

And many humans are born with hellish diseases and disabilities, some people getting a bad hand in genetic lottery doesn't mean shit when your species is facing extinction.

And again it's not like the Avengers or anyone else gave a shit about your concerns, they ALL wanted mutants back, Avengers were just scared of the phoenix.

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Yeah thats bullshit. It would be different if only newborn children were effected, but there are people who lived normal lives before all this. If i was normal one day, and the next had eyes everywhere or ended up like glob fucking herman, i would be pissed beyond fucking relief. All under the guise of saving a bunch of guinea pigs.

The Silver said:

And many humans are born with hellish diseases and disabilities, some people getting a bad hand in genetic lottery doesn't mean shit when your species is facing extinction.

And again it's not like the Avengers or anyone else gave a shit about your concerns, they ALL wanted mutants back, Avengers were just scared of the phoenix.

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A bad disease or malformed body part isn't quite the same as a hand that kills someone on contact, or being born just a brain, though. In any other storyline a man who was planning to use a supernatural power to force human beings to mutate horribly, who then lost control of that power and went on a rampage with it, would not be hailed as the story's hero.

Still don't see how anyone can blame the Avengers for being spooked though when Nova drops outta the sky crying about blazing epic fails across the universe. And all of this before Scott decided he had the right to do whatever he wanted to on Earth because he had the power to do it.

Parallax said:

Yeah thats bullshit. It would be different if only newborn children were effected, but there are people who lived normal lives before all this. If i was normal one day, and the next had eyes everywhere or ended up like glob fucking herman, i would be pissed beyond fucking relief. All under the guise of saving a bunch of guinea pigs.

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that's it right there, you don't see them as a species that deserves to exist, you'd be a damn Purifier.

All those people were already mutants anyway who didn't have powers because of Wanda, deal with it.

CorvoSol said:

A bad disease or malformed body part isn't quite the same as a hand that kills someone on contact, or being born just a brain, though.

Still don't see how anyone can blame the Avengers for being spooked though when Nova drops outta the sky crying about blazing epic fails across the universe. And all of this before Scott decided he had the right to do whatever he wanted to on Earth because he had the power to do it.

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again that's not the point, the point isany species will do anything to stop themselves from going extinct and some people getting a bad hand is the least of their concerns.

Avengers were right to fear the phoenix when it was blowing up planets on the way to earth, they were wrong to roll in deep on Utopia and demand Hope and expect Cyclops to just say "ok".

The Silver said:

that's it right there, you don't see them as a species that deserves to exist, you'd be a damn Purifier.

All those people were already mutants anyway who didn't have powers because of Wanda, deal with it.

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Purifiers arent aware of of celestials literally fucking with humans. And id imagine many of those whos x gene hadnt activated are the ones who would have to deal with it. Its a fucked way to live. When your gene activates and you look like the wolfman, are made of rocks, or you looked like a dying bird, what do you tell them? Deal with it?

Parallax said:

Purifiers arent aware of of celestials literally fucking with humans. And id imagine many of those whos x gene hadnt activated are the ones who would have to deal with it. Its a fucked way to live. When your gene activates and you look like the wolfman, are made of rocks, or you looked like a dying bird, what do you tell them? Deal with it?

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um yes deal with it, you were born that way and now your powers are back on, that's pretty much what they're telling all the new mutants right now. Im tired of repeating myself, those guys turing into frog people don't matter in the face of saving of species from extinction. Not one hero in the Marvel universe would be thinking about those guys turning into rocks if they could press a button and save a species.

If the purifiers knew, all it would do is embolden their cause, "SEE WERE WE RIGHT MUTANTS AREN'T PURE LIKE HUMANITY"

The kree, skrulls, eternals and deviants(trilions of lives here) are all just dumb experiments because of the Builders and the Celestials. They fucked with and helped create damn near all life in the universe, mutants aren't somehow less deserving of existing because they're not "pure".

zyy said:

I don't really follow comic books but can anybody tell why is cyke a jerk now?

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The House of M event happened, in which Quicksilver manipulated his sister Scarlet Witch into altering reality so that mutants could rule the Earth; when she found out; Scarlet Witch not only undid her actions but also proclaimed "No More Mutants," magically reducing the global population of mutants to roughly 200, putting them on the endangered species list and the X-Men under US government "protection." Enemies of mutantkind started coming out of the woodwork to finish the job and make mutants extinct; the Xavier School was attacked on several occasions, resulting in the deaths of many students, while all over the world remaining and former mutants were being hunted down. Meanwhile, the rest of the Marvel U was embroiled in the Superhero Registration Act and resultant civil war between pro- and anti- registration forces, so the cape community paid little attention to the plight of mutantkind. Then Cyclops took over Xavier's role as "leader" of the X-Men, after Xavier lost his powers and it was revealed that he covered up the existence of a second team of X-Men that died trying to rescue the original class from Krakoa.

Cyclops began putting a priority on mutant survival and took an increasingly hardline, militant approach to protecting mutants. After the Xavier School was attacked yet again, he abandoned New York and moved the X-Men to San Francisco hoping the West Coast would be more tolerant of mutants. When the first mutant born since M-Day was nearly assassinated by anti-mutant factions, Cyclops reactivated X-Force as a proactive covert mutant death squad led by Wolverine, and sent them to destroy the enemies of mutantkind. When clashes between pro- and anti- mutant demonstrators in San Fran led to rioting, Norman Osborn brought his Dark Avengers and H.A.M.M.E.R. to the city to quell the riots and destroy the X-Men under the guise of establishing order. At this point Cyclops abandons San Francisco and, with Namor's help, creates an island off the coast; dubbed "Utopia," this island becomes the sanctuary/compound for mutantkind away from human laws and interference. At this point Magneto comes to Cyclops on Utopia and essentially bows before him, cementing Cyclops' position as de facto leader of the entire mutant race. As world leaders become increasingly worried about this island-nation full of walking atomic bombs led by a man saying "you have nothing to fear so long as you don't f*ck with us," anti-mutant forces led by Bastion/Nimrod isolate San Francisco and Utopia under a force shield and attack with Sentinels. Cyclops puts every able-bodied mutant on the battle lines, and leads the X-Men to victory thanks to the timely return of Hope, the mutant baby (now a teenage girl) sent to the future with Cable, who exhibits Phoenix-esque powers during battle and has the ability to "awaken" dormant mutants.

Emboldened by their success Cyclops doubles down on Utopia's isolationist policy, telling the superhero community that their help isn't wanted and petitioning the world to dismantle its anti-mutant defenses, which arms manufacturers have been selling to capitalize on mutant hysteria. Events are manipulated by these profiteers to culminate in a massive Sentinel attack on Utopia that fractures the already cracking relationship between Cyclops and Wolverine, who believes the path Cyclops now walks leads everyone that follows him to ruin. Wolverine leaves Utopia and returns to New York to establish the Jean Grey School and preach Xavier's ideals, while Cyclops continues to militarize his followers on Utopia. When the Phoenix is observed in space on a collision course with Earth, Cyclops and Wolverine both come to the same conclusion: that it's on its way to join with Hope. Predicting disastrous results if that happens, the Avengers (joined by Wolverine) travel to Utopia to secure Hope and ensure the Phoenix doesn't reach her. Cyclops, however, believes a Hope powered by the Phoenix is the catalyst needed to revitalize the mutant race, and refuses to hand her over. A battle between X-Men and Avengers results, and when the Phoenix arrives the Avengers attempt to destroy it but only manage to separate it into five pieces, which find their way into Cyclops and four of his allies. Together, this "Phoenix Five" appointed themselves the guardians of the Earth, using their powers to end hunger and drought and disease and war, and human aggression through the threat of cosmic force. The Avengers continued to work against them, taking Hope from Utopia to learn about the Phoenix in order to neutralize it, resulting in the Phoenix Five declaring war on the Avengers, hunting and imprisoning them.

As time went on, the Phoenix Five were corrupted by their new godlike abilities leading to their downfall one by one until only Cyclops remained. As the Avengers and reformed X-Men (who came to see the need to stop their oppressive, drunk with power leaders) attacked him physically, Xavier (who regained his powers in an unrelated story, just go with it) tried to reason with and then telepathically force Cyclops into submission; in retaliation Cyclops killed Xavier before becoming Dark Phoenix and threatening to destroy the world to start anew. Things were looking pretty bleak until Hope called to the Phoenix, offering to willingly accept it this time; the Phoenix abandoned Cyclops to enter her and, with the help of the Scarlet Witch, Hope was able to use its abilities to undo the damage done to the Earth by Cyclops, use its power to reignite the mutant race, and ultimately disperse the Phoenix throughout the cosmos. Cyclops was taken into custody for the murder of Charles Xavier and the death and destruction he caused as the Dark Phoenix. Upon learning that new mutants were popping up all over the world again, Cyclops felt his actions were justified at last and declared "I'd do it all again." He now leads a fugitive team of X-Men and students from the abandoned Weapon X facility, protecting the lives and rights of the blossoming mutant population from persecution by any means necessary, and is regarded as something of a revolutionary cult hero by the youths of the world.

Short version: Cyclops became leader of the mutant race during some especially dark times, did some not-so nice things for the sake of survival, adopted an Israel-analogous "don't f*ck with us" militant policy toward the rest of the world, turned the X-Men into cult-ish separatists on an island compound, put teenagers still learning their abilities on the front lines instead of trying to shield them from conflict, killed his mentor while under the influence of a cosmic force, showed no remorse for his actions because "the ends justify the means," and now gets to be a slogan on a t-shirt.

The Silver said:

again that's not the point, the point isany species will do anything to stop themselves from going extinct and some people getting a bad hand is the least of their concerns.

Avengers were right to fear the phoenix when it was blowing up planets on the way to earth, they were wrong to roll in deep on Utopia and demand Hope and expect Cyclops to just say "ok".

Click to expand...

Then aren't the Avengers equally or more justified than the X-Men in their actions, since the Phoenix poses a threat to the continued survival of all life on Earth and not just one species?

Spike Spiegel said:

The House of M event happened, in which Quicksilver manipulated his sister Scarlet Witch into altering reality so that mutants could rule the Earth; when she found out; Scarlet Witch not only undid her actions but also proclaimed "No More Mutants," magically reducing the global population of mutants to roughly 200, putting them on the endangered species list and the X-Men under US government "protection." Enemies of mutantkind started coming out of the woodwork to finish the job and make mutants extinct; the Xavier School was attacked on several occasions, resulting in the deaths of many students, while all over the world remaining and former mutants were being hunted down. Meanwhile, the rest of the Marvel U was embroiled in the Superhero Registration Act and resultant civil war between pro- and anti- registration forces, so the cape community paid little attention to the plight of mutantkind. Then Cyclops took over Xavier's role as "leader" of the X-Men, after Xavier lost his powers and it was revealed that he covered up the existence of a second team of X-Men that died trying to rescue the original class from Krakoa.

Cyclops began putting a priority on mutant survival and took an increasingly hardline, militant approach to protecting mutants. After the Xavier School was attacked yet again, he abandoned New York and moved the X-Men to San Francisco hoping the West Coast would be more tolerant of mutants. When the first mutant born since M-Day was nearly assassinated by anti-mutant factions, Cyclops reactivated X-Force as a proactive covert mutant death squad led by Wolverine, and sent them to destroy the enemies of mutantkind. When clashes between pro- and anti- mutant demonstrators in San Fran led to rioting, Norman Osborn brought his Dark Avengers and H.A.M.M.E.R. to the city to quell the riots and destroy the X-Men under the guise of establishing order. At this point Cyclops abandons San Francisco and, with Namor's help, creates an island off the coast; dubbed "Utopia," this island becomes the sanctuary/compound for mutantkind away from human laws and interference. As world leaders become increasingly worried about this island-nation full of walking atomic bombs led by a man saying "you have nothing to fear so long as you don't f*ck with us," anti-mutant forces led by Bastion/Nimrod isolate San Francisco and Utopia under a force shield and attack with Sentinels. Cyclops puts every able-bodied mutant on the battle lines, and leads the X-Men to victory thanks to the timely return of Hope, the mutant baby (now a teenage girl) sent to the future with Cable who exhibits Phoenix-esque powers during battle and has the ability to "awaken" dormant mutants.

Emboldened by their success Cyclops doubles down on Utopia's isolationist policy, telling the superhero community that their help isn't wanted and petitioning the world to dismantle its anti-mutant defenses, which arms manufacturers have been selling to capitalize on mutant hysteria. Events are manipulated by these profiteers to culminate in a massive Sentinel attack on Utopia that fractures the already cracking relationship between Cyclops and Wolverine, who now believes the path Cyclops walks leads everyone that follows him to ruin. Wolverine leaves Utopia and returns to New York to establish the Jean Grey School and preach Xavier's ideals, while Cyclops continues to militarize his followers on Utopia. When the Phoenix is observed in space on a collision course with Earth, Cyclops and Wolverine both come to the same conclusion: that it's on its way to join with Hope. Predicting disastrous results if that happens, the Avengers (joined by Wolverine) travel to Utopia to secure Hope and ensure the Phoenix doesn't reach her. Cyclops, however, believes a Hope powered by the Phoenix is the catalyst needed to revitalize the mutant race, and refuses to hand her over. A battle between X-Men and Avengers results, and when the Phoenix arrived the Avengers attempted to destroy it but only managed to separate it into five pieces, which found their way into Cyclops and four of his allies. Together, this "Phoenix Five" appointed themselves the guardians of the Earth, using their powers to end hunger and drought and disease and war and human aggression through the threat of force. The Avengers continued to work against them, taking Hope to learn about the Phoenix in order to neutralize it, resulting in the Phoenix Five declaring war on the Avengers, hunting and imprisoning them.

As time went on, the Phoenix Five were corrupted by their new godlike abilities leading to their downfall one by one until only Cyclops remained. As the Avengers and reformed X-Men (who came to see the need to stop their oppressive, drunk with power leaders) attacked him physically, Xavier (regained his powers in an unrelated story, just go with it) tried to reason with and then telepathically force Cyclops into submission; in retaliation Cyclops killed Xavier before becoming Dark Phoenix and threatening to destroy the world to start anew. Things were looking pretty bleak until Hope called to the Phoenix, offering to willingly accept it this time; the Phoenix abandoned Cyclops to enter her and, with the help of the Scarlet Witch, Hope was able to use its abilities to undo the damage done to the Earth by Cyclops, use its power to reignite the mutant race, and ultimately disperse the Phoenix throughout the cosmos. Cyclops was taken into custody for the murder of Charles Xavier and the death and destruction he caused as the Dark Phoenix. Upon learning that new mutants were popping up all over the world again, Cyclops felt his actions were justified at last and declared "I'd do it all again." He now leads a fugitive team of X-Men and students from the abandoned Weapon X facility, protecting the lives and rights of the blossoming mutant population from persecution by any means necessary, and is regarded as something of a revolutionary cult hero by the youths of the world.

Short version: Cyclops became leader of the mutant race during some especially dark times, did some not-so nice things for the sake of survival, adopted an Israel-analogous "don't f*ck with us" militant policy toward the rest of the world, put teenagers on the front lines instead of trying to shield them from conflict, killed his mentor while under the influence of a cosmic force, showed no remorse for his actions because "the ends justify the means," and now gets to be a slogan on a t-shirt.

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Thanks for posting this.

The Silver said:

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My friend and I call that the "$40 smirk," because that's how much money we spent for that piece of shit event before that panel made it all worth it.

The Silver said:

um yes deal with it, you were born that way and now your powers are back on, that's pretty much what they're telling all the new mutants right now. Im tired of repeating myself, those guys turing into frog people don't matter in the face of saving of species from extinction. Not one hero in the Marvel universe would be thinking about those guys turning into rocks if they could press a button and save a species.

If the purifiers knew, all it would do is embolden their cause, "SEE WERE WE RIGHT MUTANTS AREN'T PURE LIKE HUMANITY"

The kree, skrulls, eternals and deviants(trilions of lives here) are all just dumb experiments because of the Builders and the Celestials. They fucked with and helped create damn near all life in the universe, mutants aren't somehow less deserving of existing because they're not "pure".

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Those frog people are the ones your supposed to be helping rather than damning to their fates because future generations matter more than your current plight so fuck you. And the kree, skrull, deviants, and eternals differ from mutants in a distinct way. They are born as what they are. If you say no more skrulls or kree, i doubt they would revert to humans. They are human off shoots that live as humans until their x genes decide to play russian roulette and fuck them over. Its hard to take pride in something forced on you that could potentially kill people.

multivac said:

My friend and I call that the "$40 smirk," because that's how much money we spent for that piece of shit event before that panel made it all worth it.

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I thought she went to act as a spy?

Escape Goat said:

I loved that game. My friend and I would rent a Sega Genesis from the local video store to play it on the weekend. Whos idea was it to make it so kids had to hit the reset button to purge the Phalanx virus? lolololwut

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Fantastic music. Genesis had such a cool sound ship.

Slayven said:

Shame we will never see this Cyke in live action.

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I wouldn't be so sure, we're getting new younger versions of Cyclops, Jean, and Storm in the next movie. And the movie timeline has been wiped clean. So anything can happen really. But you're probably right.

Spike Spiegel said:

Short version: Cyclops became leader of the mutant race during some especially dark times, did some not-so nice things for the sake of survival, adopted an Israel-analogous "don't f*ck with us" militant policy toward the rest of the world, turned the X-Men into cult-ish separatists on an island compound, put teenagers still learning their abilities on the front lines instead of trying to shield them from conflict, killed his mentor while under the influence of a cosmic force, showed no remorse for his actions because "the ends justify the means," and now gets to be a slogan on a t-shirt.

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Thank you for this fantastic post! *standing ovation*

Armed with this knowledge, I can only conclude that Cyclops is a madman. Just like a one-eyed cyclops of myth, he lacks perspective. ...or depth. However that works.

I can only hope that Scarlet Witch has learned something from this. (She hasn't.)

CorvoSol said:

Then aren't the Avengers equally or more justified than the X-Men in their actions, since the Phoenix poses a threat to the continued survival of all life on Earth and not just one species?

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The X-Men know 10x more about the phoenix than the Avengers, they were unqualified to deal with the Phoenix and they proved it when Iron Man attacked it and split it up.

Wolverine assumed Hope would go dark but he and everyone else forgot that Jean only went crazy because of Mastermind, the X-Men should already know its possible for the host to control the phoenix.(and there's other proof besides Jean as said before in this thread)

Hope herself had already proven she's special by being the 1st mutant born after M-Day and fixing the powers of the 5 lights. Phoenix is an agent of rebirth, mutants about to die off, Hope is clearly special, obvious to see that mutants aren't just gonna give her up because Cap wants her.

If Scott showed up at Avengers Tower and demanded one of Cap's guys he would tell him to screw off and that its' an Avengers problem.(which is pretty much what happened when he defended Wanda, a threat than can affect the multiverse)

I know where the Avengers were coming from(If I were them I'd want to take Hope too) but going to Utopia guns drawn and demanding Hope instead of asking to work together when the Phoenix comes was a bad move. This was kind of Wolverine's fault too because he just wanted to kill Hope and was looking for a fight no matter what.

Cable also told Cyclops not to trust the Avengers so that played a part in it as well.

and in the end Scott was right, the only thing the phoenix wanted to do was go inside Hope and reverse M-Day.

The Silver said:

The X-Men know 10x more about the phoenix than the Avengers, they were unqualified to deal with the Phoenix and they proved it when Iron Man attacked it and split it up.

Wolverine assumed Hopw would go dark but he and everyone else forgot that Jean only went crazy because of Mastermind, the X-Men should already know its possible for the host to control the phoenix.(and there's other proof besides Jean as said before in this thread)

Hope herself had already proven she's special by being the 1st mutant born after M-Day and fixing the powers of the 5 lights. Phoenix is an agent of rebirth, mutants about to die off, Hope is clearly special, obvious to see that mutants aren't just gonna give her up because Cap wants her.

If Scott showed up at Avengers Tower and demanded one of Cap's guys he would tell him to screw off and that's its on Avengers problem.(which is pretty much what happened when he defended Wanda, a threat than can affect the multiverse)

I know where the Avengers were coming from(If I were them I'd want to take Hope too) but going to Utopia guns drawn and demanding Hope instead of asking to work together when the Phoenix comes was a bad move. This was kind of Wolverine's fault too because he just wanted to kill Hope and was looking for a fight no matter what.

Cable also told Cyclops not to trust the Avengers so that played a part in it as well.

and in the end Scott was right, the only thing the phoenix wanted to do was go inside Hope and reverse M-Day.

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Pretty much. Had Cap and Tony gone to Cyke and talked like normal people then most of AvX wouldn't have happened.

Slayven said:

Cyke's secondary mutation is to exude either

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I always assumed Cyclops secondary mutations was the ability to bang the hottest telepaths on the planet. I'd take that over optic blasts

Xero said:

I always assumed Cyclops secondary mutations was the ability to bang the hottest telepathy on the planet. I'd take that over optic blasts

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That's his third, secret, mutation. He's got optic blasts from the punch dimension, he exudes pure ether, and he bangs the hottest telepath on the planet he's on.

LurkerPrime said:

Thank you for this fantastic post! *standing ovation*

Armed with this knowledge, I can only conclude that Cyclops is a madman. Just like a one-eyed cyclops of myth, he lacks perspective. ...or depth. However that works.

I can only hope that Scarlet Witch has learned something from this. (She hasn't.)

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She learned that you can get away with anything as long as you are an Avenger and/or have sex with Captain America, while normal mutants get sentenced to death without trial.

B-Dubs said:

Pretty much. Had Cap and Tony gone to Cyke and talked like normal people then most of AvX wouldn't have happened.

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The members of the Illuminati has shown again and again that they're a bunch of stuck-up, narcissistic, grade-a morons with tragic savior complexes.

SquiddyCracker said:

The members of the Illuminati has shown again and again that they're a bunch of stuck-up, narcissistic, grade-a morons with tragic savior complexes.

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Still, had Cap not brought in every single Avenger ever--seriously dude brought along Spider-man, like the poor guy doesn't have enough problems of his own to deal with--then AvX doesn't happen.

By any means nessisary.

Spike Spiegel said:

Short version: Cyclops became leader of the mutant race during some especially dark times, did some not-so nice things for the sake of survival, adopted an Israel-analogous "don't f*ck with us" militant policy toward the rest of the world, turned the X-Men into cult-ish separatists on an island compound, put teenagers still learning their abilities on the front lines instead of trying to shield them from conflict, killed his mentor while under the influence of a cosmic force, showed no remorse for his actions because "the ends justify the means," and now gets to be a slogan on a t-shirt.

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So which graphic novels/volumes cover these events? Definitely want to check them out

Cyclops got shafted by the current Marvel U minus-Bendis.

When you have Wolverine putting a guy to task for killing someone, you've seriously fucked up your stories.

That said, Cyclops is and always will be boss status.

He was forced into leadership, and succeeded in keeping the X-Men alive through the most insane situations (Messiah Complex, Deadly Genesis, Second Coming, all that Vampire stuff). If they hadn't decided the Avengers were more important, Marvel would still be riding the Cyclops train hard.

Cyclops is literally the first character in decades to tell Xavier he's full of shit, and then not take it back later. The Vulcan stuff allowed Xavier to be painted in a negative light, and Cyke was right in telling him to fuck off.

Seriously, even the Scarlet Witch gets a pass "cause the Avengers take care of their own".

B-Dubs said:

Pretty much. Had Cap and Tony gone to Cyke and talked like normal people then most of AvX wouldn't have happened.

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And had Steve and Tony talked like normal people, Civil War would have never happened.
And weren't the Iluminati asshats and talked to more people, the Incursions would've already stopped being a problem.
And weren't Reed an asshat and talked to victor, he'd know Victor has mapmaker tech.
And if Steve wasn't an asshat, he wouldn't have scared Starbrand away when the boy turned.
And if Tchalla wasn't a simping asshat, he would've done a better job of convincing his sister to go for peace

I'm sure the list goes on.
Point is, nearly all earth conflicts in 616 involving supes happen because people can't keep their egos checked.

B-Dubs said:

Still, had Cap not brought in every single Avenger ever--seriously dude brought along Spider-man, like the poor guy doesn't have enough problems of his own to deal with--then AvX doesn't happen.

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Peter ended being the only person who treated Hope like a person. Both Cyke and Cap saw and treated her like a tool/weapon respectively.

Coriolanus said:

And had Steve and Tony talked like normal people, Civil War would have never happened.
And weren't the Iluminati asshats and talked to more people, the Incursions would've already stopped being a problem.
And weren't Reed an asshat and talked to victor, he'd know Victor has mapmaker tech.
And if Steve wasn't an asshat, he wouldn't have scared Starbrand away when the boy turned.
And if Tchalla wasn't a simping asshat, he would've done a better job of convincing his sister to go for peace

I'm sure the list goes on.
Point is, nearly all earth conflicts in 616 earth involving supes happen because people can't keep their egos checked.

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Yep, just look at the last issue of New Avengers with Namor/T'Challa. Namor is the only member of the Illuminati who isn't a dick, BECAUSE HE'S A DICK.

More_Badass said:

So which graphic novels/volumes cover these events? Definitely want to check them out

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House of M
Decimation
New X-Men: Childhood's End
X-Men: Deadly Genesis
Messiah Complex
Divided We Stand
Messiah War
Utopia: Dark Avengers vs X-Men
Nation X
Second Coming
X-Men: Schism
Avengers vs X-Men

We are seriously talking about nearly a decade's worth of stories here.

Coriolanus said:

And had Steve and Tony talked like normal people, Civil War would have never happened.
And weren't the Iluminati asshats and talked to more people, the Incursions would've already stopped being a problem.
And weren't Reed an asshat and talked to victor, he'd know Victor has mapmaker tech.
And if Steve wasn't an asshat, he wouldn't have scared Starbrand away when the boy turned.
And if Tchalla wasn't a simping asshat, he would've done a better job of convincing his sister to go for peace

I'm sure the list goes on.
Point is, nearly all earth conflicts in 616 involving supes happen because people can't keep their egos checked.

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simping?

pulga said:

Bow down to Cyclops the GOAT, he was right all along

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Oh shit when did Beast go back to his ape form?

dbztrk said:

Or sealing off Jean's telepathy.

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Eh, I view that as a good thing, he did that to help her so her powers wouldn't go out of control.

More_Badass said:

So which graphic novels/volumes cover these events? Definitely want to check them out

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I made a post about that on the previous page.

Spike Spiegel said:

House of M
Decimation
New X-Men: Childhood's End
X-Men: Deadly Genesis
Messiah Complex
Divided We Stand
Messiah War
Utopia: Dark Avengers vs X-Men
Nation X
Second Coming
X-Men: Schism
Avengers vs X-Men

We are seriously talking about nearly a decade's worth of stories here.

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I think Regenesis would be important too as it deals with the aftermath of Schism.

Coriolanus said:

And had Steve and Tony talked like normal people, Civil War would have never happened.
And weren't the Iluminati asshats and talked to more people, the Incursions would've already stopped being a problem.
And weren't Reed an asshat and talked to victor, he'd know Victor has mapmaker tech.
And if Steve wasn't an asshat, he wouldn't have scared Starbrand away when the boy turned.
And if Tchalla wasn't a simping asshat, he would've done a better job of convincing his sister to go for peace

I'm sure the list goes on.
Point is, nearly all earth conflicts in 616 involving supes happen because people can't keep their egos checked.

Click to expand...

Angelus Errare said:

Peter ended being the only person who treated Hope like a person. Both Cyke and Cap saw and treated her like a tool/weapon respectively.

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You know, these two posts make it abundantly clear who should be running the Avengers: Peter Parker. The man's too consumed by guilt to have an ego and had he been in charge half the shit that went down could have been avoided. AvX would be avoided, Civil War diffused, and he'd probably have thought to ask Starbrand to try pushing the other Earths away during an incursion. Every conflict that could have been avoided would have and those that couldn't probably wouldn't have turned out as badly as they did.

Parallax said:

simping?

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I am also interested in this t'challa simping

Spike Spiegel said:

Short version: Cyclops became leader of the mutant race during some especially dark times, did some not-so nice things for the sake of survival, adopted an Israel-analogous "don't f*ck with us" militant policy toward the rest of the world, turned the X-Men into cult-ish separatists on an island compound, put teenagers still learning their abilities on the front lines instead of trying to shield them from conflict, killed his mentor while under the influence of a cosmic force, showed no remorse for his actions because "the ends justify the means," and now gets to be a slogan on a t-shirt.

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Bravo.

If I want to catch up with this series of events what would I need to read?

Edit: Nevermind. Already answered.

Angelus Errare said:

Peter ended being the only person who treated Hope like a person. Both Cyke and Cap saw and treated her like a tool/weapon respectively.

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Which was bullshit. Hope has been raised by Cable and was basically her father, and she had been training with him to be the host of the Phoenix since birth. Then she continued her training with Cyclops on utopia.

Then suddenly three days with Spiderman she she's ready to become host to the Phoenix?
I love me some Spiderman but that was horse shit.

B-Dubs said:

You know, these two posts make it abundantly clear who should be running the Avengers: Peter Parker. The man's too consumed by guilt to have an ego and had he been in charge half the shit that went down could have been avoided. AvX would be avoided, Civil War diffused, and he'd probably have thought to ask Starbrand to try pushing the other Earths away during an incursion. Every conflict that could have been avoided would have and those that couldn't probably wouldn't have turned out as badly as they did.

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Peter is a masochist. He'd have managed to screw things up somehow. He always does.

Village said:

I am also interested in this t'challa simping

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simping
v. to simp. Tricking, groveling, or basically just letting females walk all over you for no apparent reason other than your own bitch-made-ness.

Tchalla can act hard with anyone. Punks everybody that talks back to him. Shuri? "m-m-maybe we..... we could try...peace?", is called a coward, and proceeds to shut the hell up, even after being advised by reed to just make peace happen.

Substitute for "pathetic" if you find it more apt.