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Steel Assault - Zipline-based 2D action (PC, Kickstarter) - Campaign Successful
- Thread starter Tain
- Start date
Thanks again, everyone! Also, we just got Greenlit!
In addition, if you backed at the $39 beta access tier or higher, we sent out e-mails yesterday with a link to the game's development forum! You can register there and starting posting around/giving feedback.
In addition, if you backed at the $39 beta access tier or higher, we sent out e-mails yesterday with a link to the game's development forum! You can register there and starting posting around/giving feedback.
New backer update:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/43113410/steel-assault/posts/1298620
I hope it turns out well but updates like this are often a bad sign.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/43113410/steel-assault/posts/1298620
The developer's reasons for making these changes are at the link.
I hope it turns out well but updates like this are often a bad sign.
superNESjoe
Member
This exact same thing happened to me when working on the original GunWorld, and it had a major effect on the final quality of the game. Hopefully that doesn't happen to them and it comes out better than they expected. I know how rough development changes can be, sometimes a project doesn't recover.
Update:
Game has moved on from the 8-bit art style, refunds for people not cool with it. Personally I think it's a nice improvement.
Explanation below.
Game has moved on from the 8-bit art style, refunds for people not cool with it. Personally I think it's a nice improvement.
Explanation below.
So, I guess this is what you guys in the business world might call a "pivot".
Before we fully explain our reasoning and talk about the future direction we want to take Steel Assault, I'd like to apologize once again for the lack of updates in the preceding months. Life has been really hectic for all of us, with Daniel juggling commissions, me entering the graduate school portion of my 5-year university program, and much more... But we have exciting news to share.
Last summer, I was fortunate enough to work a 3-month summer internship at a "big 4" tech company, and in that time I made over twice the budget of the Steel Assault Kickstarter. This was not something I foresaw happening back in February when the campaign ended, or even fully considered until this July -- but it happened, and it got me thinking. My cost of living is currently at an all-time low, so why not funnel some of this money into the game's art budget? (And maybe some of the money from the next summer internship as well?)
With this increase in budget, we found ourselves considering two different options for the game:
1) Do we keep trying to push our 8-bit restrictions as far as they can go?
2) Or do we ditch the 8-bit restrictions (which we embraced in the first place because of our limited budget, as a stylistic choice to make the most out of what we had), and just try to make the most visually appealing game we can?
We initially tried the first approach, trying to mold our 8-bit restrictions to more detailed and vibrant environments. Not going into detail, it didn't really work out as well as we hoped it would. The more we tried to do, the looser our restriction set had to get... Until finally, we decided unilaterally to take the second option, and ditched them.
Hence the GIF above. There's still more work to be done even here (background animations and a reshaded player sprite, for example), but I think that, overall? It's a massive improvement.
_______________________________________
I'd also like to introduce you guys to a new artist on our team: Weston Tracy.
Weston is a freelance videogame artist living in Portland, Oregon, with a strong background in digital art. You can view his website here, and his PixelJoint portfolio here. He was also one of the original backers of Steel Assault!
In the coming months, Weston is going to be responsible for the game's environments and general art direction, with Daniel working on sprites and character designs. As you can see, they're doing a great job so far.
_______________________________________
How does all this affect you guys (our backers)?
I understand that some of you won't like this new direction. The game you backed was an 8-bit game, with an art style possibly recalling a specific time and place in your lives. The new Steel Assault isn't what was promised to you, or what you originally backed. So, for any backers unhappy with this new direction, I'm offering a full refund of your pledge. Just ask me, through e-mail, direct message, whatever.
For those of you who are alright with the new direction, everything stays exactly the same. You'll get the game when it's done, and for those of who you pledged for the soundtrack or for a special credit, you'll get those too. In addition, we will be reopening the backer forum soon (it's currently broken thanks to a server move), or possibly some other beta access channel. Look out for emails about that in the coming weeks.
(And the backer thank-you ROM will still be made eventually -- though, corresponding to these changes, it might be a Genesis ROM rather than an NES one!
That's all we have to say for now, but we have more cool stuff for you soon. If you have any feedback or criticism, don't hesitate to comment!
Thanks and happy holidays,
Sri, Daniel, and Weston
Putting aside the shift in art style (not that I'm fussed either way), I really don't have much confidence in this project anymore; the main guy doesn't seem to have any real vision for the game and seems far too dependent (or too susceptible) to outside opinions or suggestions. It should have been obvious during the campaign, honestly.
Huh, that's not really the impression I'm getting at all.
I dunno, I think the reason is fairly obvious. Because it looks better. They could have stuck more slavishly to 8-bit limitations, but I don't really see what the point of that would be if you have the resources to make something better looking with coherent art quality. It's not like people were complaining when the SNES came out and everything looked way better than on the NES.
Azure Dream
Member
I'm not going to get a refund, but I am a little disappointed. I remember the NES-styled FMVs and everything, it was kind of a neat approach. I understand there's a lot of wanna-be 8-bit games all over the place now, but there was a good feeling to this one, really invoked that Sunsoft art style.
Perhaps they should've pushed ahead with the original game, with a comfortable budget now, and saved this sort of shift for a sequel?
But it's up to them, ultimately.
Perhaps they should've pushed ahead with the original game, with a comfortable budget now, and saved this sort of shift for a sequel?
But it's up to them, ultimately.
Crankshaft
Member
The reason this game caught my attention was the shatterhand graphics. Take those away, and you've left me with nothing.
Yeah, this is pretty sad. The "8-bit" style might be "overcrowded", but the true 8-bit style is something hardly anyone can achieve. Of course I'm still hyped if it's a good game, since this is just a change in art direction, but the project is way less unique and interesting now. The game lost a ton of personality It's not an improvement at all.
It's not an improvement at all.Ninja Scooter
Member
The new style still evokes retro graphics, but I'm a little disappointed they are moving away from the old hard 8 bit Sunsoft style. Maybe they could have saved the new stuff for a sequel? Super Steel Assault or something?
Like I didn't back this but they said that the entire first half was pretty much asset complete during the campaign:
I don't see why they would completely start the project over to do this art direction change so late in the game unless they lied about how deep into development they were and aren't actually very far at all. Not sure I believe this will ever see the light of day tbh.
I don't see why they would completely start the project over to do this art direction change so late in the game unless they lied about how deep into development they were and aren't actually very far at all. Not sure I believe this will ever see the light of day tbh.
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Honestly don't intend to be too negative here but all that the above screenshot comparison shows me is that the game looked much better before. The first screenshot shows a retro-infused, slick and ultra-cool throwback aesthetic that's original and unique whilst the newer screenshot makes it look like a thousand other games from no era in gaming in particular that is devoid of what made the game visually compelling, distinctive and interesting in the first place. Echoing everyone else when I say - why? This is just unnecessary. They're not improving the game, they're removing what attracted people to their project originally. The game just isn't as interesting or cool now. It's just another game.
Not a good decision IMO. I can totally see this being super unpopular, backfiring and the game's development stalling now as a result.
Not a good decision IMO. I can totally see this being super unpopular, backfiring and the game's development stalling now as a result.
I can't be mad at an artstyle that looks more like 80's / 90's arcade games, rather than consoles. There's way less of them out there, even if this did seem to be one of the best pure NES style recreations available.
I really enjoyed reading all the NES trickery discussions this Kickstarter spawned here. It does seem odd that the tone would be shifted, after entrenching into that particular style and era so heavily. But if a guy makes more money, and can get something even closer to their real desire out, then great for them.
It makes solid personal sense, but it seems like skewed business sense. Why not make the original all the way though, and then make a 1.5 that remade the best of the full old game in the new style, as a bonus treat? There shouldn't be much wiggle room in something once people have paid for it.
I wasn't a backer, yet I still plan to buy the game once it releases. But I don't see this development fostering good will in this way, which is sad, because it should, based on it's own merits.
I really enjoyed reading all the NES trickery discussions this Kickstarter spawned here. It does seem odd that the tone would be shifted, after entrenching into that particular style and era so heavily. But if a guy makes more money, and can get something even closer to their real desire out, then great for them.
It makes solid personal sense, but it seems like skewed business sense. Why not make the original all the way though, and then make a 1.5 that remade the best of the full old game in the new style, as a bonus treat? There shouldn't be much wiggle room in something once people have paid for it.
I wasn't a backer, yet I still plan to buy the game once it releases. But I don't see this development fostering good will in this way, which is sad, because it should, based on it's own merits.
"Asset complete" means "we don't have a game or any real ideas but boy howdy did we draw lots of sprites!", basically.
I don't think they lied about how much work was already done but it was clear even during the campaign that the game itself was secondary to general NES fetishism and that putting something together that superficially resembles a cool sidescrolling action game isn't the same thing as actually making one.
Again, my issue isn't with the change in art style per se, it's that the aesthetic was the only thing he seemed to give any thought to and the only thing he was really excited about, but he still capitulated the moment someone told him it was stupid. If he can't even follow through on that front, what hope is there?
I dont think the new style is bad (baffling more like it) but i think i might get a refund because im left a lot less confident about the project.
The last update over the summer was extremely focused on vaguely talking up overhauling the structure and mechanics, yet theres no mention of any of that in todays update. Just one gif that shows a character standing still. Youd think theyd show more to ease the shock or something.
The last update over the summer was extremely focused on vaguely talking up overhauling the structure and mechanics, yet theres no mention of any of that in todays update. Just one gif that shows a character standing still. Youd think theyd show more to ease the shock or something.
Yup. I was looking forward to this due to the passion. I felt like it was going to be built around the limitations. Now I'm not sure what we're getting.
Not gonna ask for a refund. But I'm definitely not as excited as I was for it.
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Well, Sri is a member here and will likely read the overwhelming wave of negative feedback so I guess there's a chance they could reverse their decision?
The original art direction looked cool and distinctive (for a fauxtro indie platformer). The new style is... I really can't make any useful or intelligent criticism (beside maybe that the angled, belt-scroll like floor looks odd for what still seems to be a 2D platform) beyond "I don't like it", but, I don't like it.
charlequin
Banned
This strikes me as an extraordinarily short-sighted choice. This game passed its goal -- barely -- based on its original pitch. If the project delivers on that, it's a ready-made batch of potential ambassadors for your game, convincing other people to buy and try it. By pivoting like this, you drive some people out completely, you leave others feeling uncertain, and you cut out the potential hype for your game before it ever has a chance.
Besides that, budgetary holes are one of the biggest challenges every Kickstarter faces. Almost every project creeps its scope somewhere, goes over its allotted time, burns through more of its budget than it expects to, and has to consider how to limp over the finish line with the available resources. Given the luck to have extra funds, the smart thing to do is to keep your scope exactly where it is and use the extra funds as a cushion to get the project finished.
It very much does not.
Besides that, budgetary holes are one of the biggest challenges every Kickstarter faces. Almost every project creeps its scope somewhere, goes over its allotted time, burns through more of its budget than it expects to, and has to consider how to limp over the finish line with the available resources. Given the luck to have extra funds, the smart thing to do is to keep your scope exactly where it is and use the extra funds as a cushion to get the project finished.
It very much does not.
I don't even really understand what he means by that in this context because yeah a Super Nintendo game looks "better" in terms of depth and resolution or whatever than an NES game. But if you're funding an NES game to be made and then it becomes a Super Nintendo game what does "better" even mean?
With a retro style game, the point isn't for the graphics to be better but for it to have the nostalgia trip of it being made in that style. The growth should be in terms of scope or like they mentioned in the post trying to push within that style to the very edge of what you can do while maintaining the aesthetic.
If you want better with no qualfier, you'll go play a professionally developed, big budget game.
it basically looks like a SNES game or an arcade game instead of a NES game now.
which is basically a different way of saying it looks better.
I very much agree with this. I mulled over backing this (not seriously, I'm Canadian and the high U.S. dollar has put me off backing just about everything now) and if I had, I'd be getting that refund. This project felt like it had purpose, esoteric though it may be, while now it doesn't seem to have any purpose at all -- just, here's a platformer, it looks sort of old. OK, but there's certainly no shortage of those. To backtrack on the game's only real selling point indicates to me that this won't end well.
NoFaceNico
Member
When this thread was bumped I didn't realize it was so old. I saw the gifs and immediately wanted to back it. I was even kinda pissed that I couldn't. Now that I see the change, I consider this a dodged bullet.
This thing barely skidded past its goal and for such a huge (and pointless) change I don't think it's a wise decision to even consider. Even if you don't have a strong opinion one way or the other regarding the change in style, I say get your money out now while you still can. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but right now I can only see this ending in disaster.
Maybe those who backed this game did that because they specifically wanted the NES style. SNES is not "basically" better. I like both NES and SNES games but I personally prefer Super Mario Bros 3's visuals over Super Mario World.
This thing barely skidded past its goal and for such a huge (and pointless) change I don't think it's a wise decision to even consider. Even if you don't have a strong opinion one way or the other regarding the change in style, I say get your money out now while you still can. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but right now I can only see this ending in disaster.
Maybe those who backed this game did that because they specifically wanted the NES style. SNES is not "basically" better. I like both NES and SNES games but I personally prefer Super Mario Bros 3's visuals over Super Mario World.
Seems like kind of a dumb move to me. I don't think the new style looks bad, but it would have been much better suited for a sequel. With this, a big reason why people backed the project in the first place is gone: it being a new game that actually looks like an NES game rather than whatever passes for "8-bit" these days. Throwing away everything they had already done is also a big waste.
Yeah, this is pretty sad. The "8-bit" style might be "overcrowded", but the true 8-bit style is something hardly anyone can achieve. Of course I'm still hyped if it's a good game, since this is just a change in art direction, but the project is way less unique and interesting now. The game lost a ton of personality
Yeah, this shift looks really disappointing because Steel Assault looked like one of the few retro-style games that actually had the visuals of a late-gen NES title. A lot of retro games look cheap, inconsistent, or like a mobile title. In that regard, this game's orignal style is rare nowadays and the new direction is putting it closer in the overcrowded arena of generic retro games.
edit: the main sprite definitely no longer fits in with the game. I'm guessing this isn't the only visual inconsistency that has cropped up with this change. Oh, and I don't personally think it looks like SNES either.
SMB3 is an exception, the vast majority of NES games look worse than SNES games, that's not a controversial statement at all.
IMO the fact that he's offering refunds makes it mostly a non-issue to me anyway.
It's not an issue but I'm assuming he wants people to still be interested in his game. I mean if interest goes from 70 to 10, you probably wanna know, right?
People going from very interested to not really interested is a pretty big problem for what is already a very niche project.
charlequin
Banned
It looks like a technically well-crafted but relatively generic and nondescript 16-bit game now instead of a stylish, elegant, well-realized example of the late NES aesthetic.
I backed this game because I was intrigued by the way the developer was working within the limitations of the NES. That is a major part of the appeal for me. Games that take on a nondescript mishmash featuring pixel art with no regard for what these machines were actually capable of are a dime a dozen. This game may still end up being good, and maybe a new Kickstarter about it would even be successful, but it isn't what I signed up for. I'm very disappointed.
Yep. I feel its way harder and more interesting for me personally to see people push the limits of what the NES was capable and yet still make it look good visually. Its kind of like how Batman Return of the Joker looks amazing to me for being an NES game, yet while technically better, the genesis version looks kind of worse, and kind of boring in comparison.
This doesn't look like any SNES game. It doesn't really look like any arcade game from the 16-bit era either. It looks like a typical modern-retro pixel game with a hodge-podge mix of 8/16/32-bit/modern 2D visuals.
Yup. I wouldn't be surprised if it now has Flash-like rotating sprites, modern lighting effects, and similar stuff. It's now a me too game without any distinctive element that makes it stand out.
I hadn't heard of this until I read the OP just now. I find the topic of old graphics fascinating, and loved that someone was taking the truest approach to this that they could (in contrast to almost every other "8bit" modern indie game out there).
Then I jumped straight to the last page. What a letdown. I do like both the before and after versions, but where did all the passion and enthusiasm for the NES style go? What about all this?
This has been a short, weird rollercoaster.
Then I jumped straight to the last page. What a letdown. I do like both the before and after versions, but where did all the passion and enthusiasm for the NES style go? What about all this?
This has been a short, weird rollercoaster.
I think you're doing it a disservice by saying it looks like every other pixel game--it may not be slavishly imitating some old console anymore (not that it was very faithful to the limitations of a real NES game, anyhow...) but the new look is fine.
What hasn't changed is that he still isn't showing or even talking about how the game actually plays except to say that it's being overhauled.
What hasn't changed is that he still isn't showing or even talking about how the game actually plays except to say that it's being overhauled.
It just doesn't have anything going for it now. There are tons of "pretty pixel art" games out there, it's a problem when the selling point so far hasn't been its gameplay. It now looks like a beat em up where you control a little toy robot.
I was actually a bit surprised at the universally enthusiastic reaction I'd gotten from all of the backers who commented, everyone on Twitter and Tumblr, etc. I guess all the negativity was here and I didn't see it until now...
I understand the people who have lost trust in the game and who don't expect me to deliver anymore, or think that I have no idea what I'm doing. There's nothing I can say to that; the only thing I can do is apologize to you guys, work on the game, and show you when we have enough to show.
I also understand the people who originally backed this game because of the 8-bit aesthetic, and who feel like they backed a game that no longer exists. I'm sorry if I disappointed or misled you; you are who the refunds are intended for.
Well, I guess this is the part of this post where I defend our decision and our game. I said earlier in this thread (and I expressed this same sentiment in multiple other places as well):
Embracing the 8-bit aesthetic was always a reflection of the budget. I was really attached to it in that I know a lot about 8-bit systems' limitations, and I really admire the ingenuity of the programmers and how they got the most out of their systems' limitations ... but then the 16-bit systems were the ones I actually played growing up, myself. Sega Genesis ROM hacking was where I first learned about all those fancy hardware tricks -- dithering, sprite manipulation, crazy scanline tricks, and more. This is not exactly a full high-end 16-bit game, but it is far closer to that than to an NES game (or a 32-bit game, or a modern 2D game, or a mobile game! Come on, what?) It could definitely be handled by, say, a Sega Genesis.
If I could have launched the Kickstarter with the current aesthetic, then I would have (and probably would have easily gone over the goal too, instead of haphazardly limping over it). I'd also like to note that, even back then, I was already struggling with the limitations of the NES aesthetic! I wanted more colors on sprites, screen-filling fully animated bosses, and I even put all this in the style guide we created.
One thing I honestly can't understand is the claim that, even disregarding the change in style, the new art looks visually worse or more generic than the old one. I feel the exact opposite! To me, every single visual element in the new screenshot looks better than that of the old one, on both a technical and aesthetic level. The new screenshot establishes the D.C. environment and its abandoned post-apocalyptic atmosphere (whereas the old level visually has nothing to do with D.C. except the name), it has architecture (a restaurant) that looks more like it has some sort of purpose, the road tiles are better, there's a more atmospheric and less tacky night sky... If the goal is to create a mood and sense of place (and that is my goal with any visual style, far above and beyond any 8-bit/16-bit distinctions), then I simply can't see the old level art winning out. If you disagree with all of this, or place the 8-bit style as your top priority, then I understand why you hate this change in direction. But I 100% believe this is a step forward.
Another thing I can't understand is the people calling the new style inconsistent, or a "hodgepodge" of eras. The screenshot very clearly uses a limited color palette with colors reused between objects (GraphicsGale counts about 32, not including the reflection which hasn't been palette-unified yet, and I plan to reduce this as much as I can). The old player sprite is obviously out of place, but I clearly said in the update that it was going to be reshaded and modified to fit in. So, where's this hodgepodge? Even the water effect is animated by scanline, not as a "modern 2D" effect (see Castlevania: Bloodlines for precedent).
________________________________
Anyway, I hope this post helps clarify my perspective and our decision. Once again, we're sorry to those of you who were disappointed with this update, and I hope that our work over the coming weeks and months will regain your trust and enthusiasm.
And for those of you who want to know more about the game plays, you won't be let down. It's just that I really hate showing incomplete stuff if I can avoid it (even making this update was a challenge for me, especially knowing many people might hate it, and did in the end...)
I understand the people who have lost trust in the game and who don't expect me to deliver anymore, or think that I have no idea what I'm doing. There's nothing I can say to that; the only thing I can do is apologize to you guys, work on the game, and show you when we have enough to show.
I also understand the people who originally backed this game because of the 8-bit aesthetic, and who feel like they backed a game that no longer exists. I'm sorry if I disappointed or misled you; you are who the refunds are intended for.
Well, I guess this is the part of this post where I defend our decision and our game. I said earlier in this thread (and I expressed this same sentiment in multiple other places as well):
Embracing the 8-bit aesthetic was always a reflection of the budget. I was really attached to it in that I know a lot about 8-bit systems' limitations, and I really admire the ingenuity of the programmers and how they got the most out of their systems' limitations ... but then the 16-bit systems were the ones I actually played growing up, myself. Sega Genesis ROM hacking was where I first learned about all those fancy hardware tricks -- dithering, sprite manipulation, crazy scanline tricks, and more. This is not exactly a full high-end 16-bit game, but it is far closer to that than to an NES game (or a 32-bit game, or a modern 2D game, or a mobile game! Come on, what?) It could definitely be handled by, say, a Sega Genesis.
If I could have launched the Kickstarter with the current aesthetic, then I would have (and probably would have easily gone over the goal too, instead of haphazardly limping over it). I'd also like to note that, even back then, I was already struggling with the limitations of the NES aesthetic! I wanted more colors on sprites, screen-filling fully animated bosses, and I even put all this in the style guide we created.
One thing I honestly can't understand is the claim that, even disregarding the change in style, the new art looks visually worse or more generic than the old one. I feel the exact opposite! To me, every single visual element in the new screenshot looks better than that of the old one, on both a technical and aesthetic level. The new screenshot establishes the D.C. environment and its abandoned post-apocalyptic atmosphere (whereas the old level visually has nothing to do with D.C. except the name), it has architecture (a restaurant) that looks more like it has some sort of purpose, the road tiles are better, there's a more atmospheric and less tacky night sky... If the goal is to create a mood and sense of place (and that is my goal with any visual style, far above and beyond any 8-bit/16-bit distinctions), then I simply can't see the old level art winning out. If you disagree with all of this, or place the 8-bit style as your top priority, then I understand why you hate this change in direction. But I 100% believe this is a step forward.
Another thing I can't understand is the people calling the new style inconsistent, or a "hodgepodge" of eras. The screenshot very clearly uses a limited color palette with colors reused between objects (GraphicsGale counts about 32, not including the reflection which hasn't been palette-unified yet, and I plan to reduce this as much as I can). The old player sprite is obviously out of place, but I clearly said in the update that it was going to be reshaded and modified to fit in. So, where's this hodgepodge? Even the water effect is animated by scanline, not as a "modern 2D" effect (see Castlevania: Bloodlines for precedent).
________________________________
Anyway, I hope this post helps clarify my perspective and our decision. Once again, we're sorry to those of you who were disappointed with this update, and I hope that our work over the coming weeks and months will regain your trust and enthusiasm.
And for those of you who want to know more about the game plays, you won't be let down. It's just that I really hate showing incomplete stuff if I can avoid it (even making this update was a challenge for me, especially knowing many people might hate it, and did in the end...)
superNESjoe
Member
This is the only part I want to comment on. You did a Kickstarter and it was almost a year ago. It's time for you to show "incomplete stuff" whether you really want to or not. I really want to see the game, especially with the new art to see how different it looks. Mostly I want to see the actual game, how far it has progressed, and how far off it is.
Portugeezer
Member
Can't argue with that new gifs.
Well, of course what people want in the end is a good game so hopefully the completed project delivers on that front and complaints about art style will be mostly unimportant. Good luck with the project!