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Wii U tablet: a foreshadowing of 3DS' successor?

z0m3le

Banned
All this talk of Apple taking over the hand held market... Well when I start seeing iOS games selling in the millions and costing $39.99 a piece, I'll believe it, until then lets be realistic... iOS gaming sucks, and doesn't hold a candle to traditional gaming...

The best you can do with iOS is interactive story games and sub-genres, until they start porting console games to iOS, it's just another way to market a bigger game with a bit size suppliment.

As for the next DS not being Dual Screens... that isn't going to happen, clam shell design is amazing for Nintendo, and backwards compatibility is important to sell the hardware.
 
All this talk of Apple taking over the hand held market... Well when I start seeing iOS games selling in the millions and costing $39.99 a piece, I'll believe it, until then lets be realistic... iOS gaming sucks, and doesn't hold a candle to traditional gaming...

The best you can do with iOS is interactive story games and sub-genres, until they start porting console games to iOS, it's just another way to market a bigger game with a bit size suppliment.

As for the next DS not being Dual Screens... that isn't going to happen, clam shell design is amazing for Nintendo, and backwards compatibility is important to sell the hardware.

To be fair they have ported some console games but they are older ones from past generations :p If I were to ever buy an iPad it's main purpose would not be for gaming.
 

z0m3le

Banned
To be fair they have ported some console games but they are older ones from past generations :p If I were to ever buy an iPad it's main purpose would not be for gaming.

Yeah GTA3 for something like $6? and it still sucks to control, if they could come up with a surgery to make my hands translucent, then the future for Apple might look brighter as a dedicated gaming machine, but I think the bold part of your message is the most important... Very few people buy the iPad just to play games, even if they end up using it for that purpose mostly, it's not why the thing is bought in the millions.
 
IrishNinja said:
by the way, dave: fuck you for being so much more succinct.

again: until the market for consoles bottoms out, why?
We can assume a 4/5 year console cycle for both WiiU and 3DS so by that time the console market could "bottom out" significantly.
IrishNinja said:
you lost me - you're saying what we have now with on-screen buttons, only the panel's tech will make them better at some point?
Simulated physical buttons on the screen, i mean, your fingers feel the actual touch of a button, that's the ultimate in haptic feedback.
It's a possible scenario with how they're making their user base accustomed to less powerful hardware in consoles. But if you can make money off two different lines of systems, why release only one?
Im not saying with a 100% certainty but it's an interesting territory to explore for Nintendo. Why? Because there are market product transitions? Just like desktops are being substituted by more portable devices like laptops, netbooks and tablets. Japan is a good example of the transition, it's just an scenario to consider.

And it's a good chance for Nintendo if they can come up with a device that fills both needs, at least it'll allow the home console side of their business to stay relevant.
Yeah GTA3 for something like $6? and it still sucks to control, if they could come up with a surgery to make my hands translucent, then the future for Apple might look brighter as a dedicated gaming machine, but I think the bold part of your message is the most important... Very few people buy the iPad just to play games, even if they end up using it for that purpose mostly, it's not why the thing is bought in the millions.
You are ignoring the fact that apple is pursuing a synergy between their products. There's nothing preventing them to stream the game from the tablet to the apple TV, so you won't need hand surgery to enjoy your GTA3.
 

IrishNinja

Member
We can assume a 4/5 year console cycle for both WiiU and 3DS so by that time the console market could "bottom out" significantly.

i just can't see it yet. i know it's a popular prediction/angle but the wii still sold gangbusters. if the WU hits gamecube level of sales, but say nextbox/PS4 do even better next time around - or, for the sake of argument, similar #'s - that only proves that nintendo misstepped, not that we've bottomed out on that market. for growth? possibly, and that's no doubt important, but for chance at real revenue? i'd need to see all 3 with 360 in japan type #'s, or just a bit better.

Simulated physical buttons on the screen, i mean, your fingers feel the actual touch of a button, that's the ultimate in haptic feedback.

it sounds conceptually interesting - is there an existing piece of tech i can use for a frame of reference here though?
 
I agree.

Personally, I think the portable gaming device market is going to disappear unless you're a smartphone, and Nintendo will merge the home console market and the portable market into one device. You can plug in the tablet controller to your television, and then take the tablet controller with you portably.

It's what iPads are doing, so I doubt Nintendo would want to follow in their footsteps, but i damn hope you're right. HDMI / Wireless Out portable high gaming pads with good controls.
 
it sounds conceptually interesting - is there an existing piece of tech i can use for a frame of reference here though?

the blackberry storm has a haptic touchscreen. dunno if you can compare it to that other haptic touchscreen concept. I just know it sucks at the moment (the blackberry screen, I mean)
 

Foffy

Banned
You are ignoring the fact that apple is pursuing a synergy between their products. There's nothing preventing them to stream the game from the tablet to the apple TV, so you won't need hand surgery to enjoy your GTA3.

You'd need hand surgery to play GTA III on a smartphone or a tablet because the control layout is disastrous. You can tell with how cumbersome the controls are that it was not designed for a touch screen.

And that's the problem I have with those types of devices: many of the games I frequently play are designed around physical buttons. Removing the buttons removes precision in too many of these games. And if we're going to have a future where we have to deal with that (the claims it's all going to be smartphones), then that's an incredibly poor future and I don't see why people are fine with it. Granted, there are games that can transfer well, like puzzle games or turn based RPGs, but look at platformers for example. They're so awful on iOS and Android, and easily better on any single platform with actual buttons. It creates this fork in the road; there are some games that can work on iOS/Android/iPad/Vita/3DS if they're all touch based (the 3DS may be at a disadvantage if it's multi-touch) but when it comes to games that require more precision like a platformer, it seems the Vita and 3DS easily trump the rest. I think as long as such a significant difference exists, there will be separate markets for the two.
 
i just can't see it yet.
Not saying im wright or wrong. It's just a very plausible scenario, backed with a real life example (Japan) and consumer trends, that they should consider rather now than later as it gives then the chance to innovate with a product different from the competition. That is if Nintendo decided to use a portable/home console hybrid.
it sounds conceptually interesting - is there an existing piece of tech i can use for a frame of reference here though?
I've read about many prototypes but going by memory there's a company called Senseg that have touch screens that simulate different surfaces to the touch. Impressions said it works quite well and more over the company advertises the tech as being ready for use.
the blackberry storm has a haptic touchscreen. dunno if you can compare it to that other haptic touchscreen concept. I just know it sucks at the moment (the blackberry screen, I mean)
HAptic is just a general term, there are many types of technology to achieve feedback. Some of them suck like the Black Berry example :)

Until developers actually put forth games that sell in the millions at $40 or more, you are predicting the end of gaming in general, not dedicated gaming machines.
It's the type of post i expected from you... a very Nintendo centered poster, nothing wrong with that as long as the discussion is carried in a respectful way.

Take the time to read carefully, im not talking in absolutes. As explained above there are patterns in the consumer behavior that Nintendo should pay attention. What i suggested is that maybe 5 years from know there could be a market decline for consoles not their extinction. So there's a chance for Nintendo to innovate differentiate themselves with that hypothetical product i proposed.
 

z0m3le

Banned
We can assume a 4/5 year console cycle for both WiiU and 3DS so by that time the console market could "bottom out" significantly.
Until developers actually put forth games that sell in the millions at $40 or more, you are predicting the end of gaming in general, not dedicated gaming machines.

Simulated physical buttons on the screen, i mean, your fingers feel the actual touch of a button, that's the ultimate in haptic feedback.
Yes, your fingers feel the buttons, after you press them, it's great that you can search around like a blind man for that tactile feed back, but come'on, don't bullshit me.

And it's a good chance for Nintendo if they can come up with a device that fills both needs, at least it'll allow the home console side of their business to stay relevant.
They make the most gaming money out of the big 3, even when it's just about consoles, Nintendo has made more money than the other two. Tech wise, the Wii lost it's relevance, but business wise, they have continued to sell well, Wii even outsold the PS3 last holiday season, didn't it?
You are ignoring the fact that apple is pursuing a synergy between their products. There's nothing preventing them to stream the game from the tablet to the apple TV, so you won't need hand surgery to enjoy your GTA3.
You can't see what you are doing on the ipad, a real controller would be (incoming illogical number) 100x more enjoyable and better, as I explained above, screens can never truly replace controllers, because you will never know where a button is without looking down at the controller, or touching the screen and searching for the buttons like a blind man.

TL:DR Apple's gaming dreams are shallow, the entire crowd of gamers on these devices prefer gaming on their dedicated machines, but find pick up and play games that are shallow, better fitting to their lives. I would even go so far as to say gaming on these devices are far more relevant for the mid 30s to mid 50s than anyone from 15-35.

It's the type of post i expected from you... a very Nintendo centered poster, nothing wrong with that as long as the discussion is carried in a respectful way.
I do love Nintendo games, but I also love my PC for gaming, and my 2nd 360, this does happen to be a Nintendo thread though, and what you are talking about is the possibilities of Apple and their touchpad gaming. I am explaining the limits of that market, the stuff you overlook, like that hapnotic feedback will not replace controllers ever, they simply do not allow for you to look away from the controller.
Take the time to read carefully, im not talking in absolutes. As explained above there are patterns in the consumer behavior that Nintendo should pay attention. What i suggested is that maybe 5 years from know there could be a market decline for consoles not their extinction. So there's a chance for Nintendo to innovate differentiate themselves with that hypothetical product i proposed.
This is a bad business move, it actually kills off one of their forms of income, in the hopes that the other will pick up both markets, basically people buy HDTVs for movies and for gaming, that likely isn't going away, and as long as there is the ideal that people use their HDTVs for gaming, a console makes logical sense, the Wii U is a hybred device though, and it will likely take some of ipad's market away, simply because people will have a tablet in their living rooms already that will play netflix and can be used as an ebook reader... What you should look at is market research at how many tablet users actually take their tablets on the go with them, you'll notice that it is mostly an around the house device... Basically, you can suggest anything, and speculate about anything you want, but it doesn't make it any more likely to happen... Console Gaming's decline is a decline of the entire industry, as for Japan, handheld gaming makes a lot of sense there, public transportation plays a much bigger role in that country, but it isn't the future, korea is in direct contrast to that, as most gamers there play on their PCs.
 
Yeah GTA3 for something like $6? and it still sucks to control, if they could come up with a surgery to make my hands translucent, then the future for Apple might look brighter as a dedicated gaming machine, but I think the bold part of your message is the most important... Very few people buy the iPad just to play games, even if they end up using it for that purpose mostly, it's not why the thing is bought in the millions.

You are ignoring the fact that apple is pursuing a synergy between their products. There's nothing preventing them to stream the game from the tablet to the apple TV, so you won't need hand surgery to enjoy your GTA3.
Why is it that whenever we get into these discussions everyone ignores the fact that you couldn't make GTA3 (or Metal Gear Solid, or Final Fantasy, or Mario Kart, or...) if you had to sell it for $6. If Apple kills consoles (handheld or otherwise), then "real" (ya, I hate to use that word too, but there you are) gaming will be relegated to the PC or die off completely; high quality games cost loads of money to make (generally), and you can't sell games for $40 in an environment where users have been conditioned to think of anything over $4.99 as "too expensive".
 

neeksleep

Member
You are ignoring the fact that apple is pursuing a synergy between their products. There's nothing preventing them to stream the game from the tablet to the apple TV, so you won't need hand surgery to enjoy your GTA3.

But then, i'd want to use buttons. Using an empty slate without looking at it as a controller is pretty much useless. You'd lose track of where your hands are, and what buttons they were hitting unless you're looking directly at the pad and not at the TV.
 
Why is it that whenever we get into these discussions everyone ignores the fact that you couldn't make GTA3 (or Metal Gear Solid, or Final Fantasy, or Mario Kart, or...) if you had to sell it for $6. If Apple kills consoles (handheld or otherwise), then "real" (ya, I hate to use that word too, but there you are) gaming will be relegated to the PC or die off completely; high quality games cost loads of money to make (generally), and you can't sell games for $40 in an environment where users have been conditioned to think of anything over $4.99 as "too expensive"
My advice is not to take examples too literally Blu, z0m3le just used the GTA name, that's all. Also it's not a thread discussing apple's relevance in the gaming market, so no need to get defensive about it.
 

Mael

Member
My advice is not to take examples too literally Blu, z0m3le just used the GTA name, that's all. Also it's not a thread discussing apple's relevance in the gaming market, so no need to get defensive about it.

You can replace GTA with pretty much all big budget games anyway.
 
I posted this in the Wii U thread, but thought I make a topic out of it. Seeing pictures of the Wii U tablet makes me wonder if Nintendo is not only doing something different with home consoles but also experimenting for a 3DS' successor.
Seems backwards to me. Seems like Wii U pad is the result of nearly a decade of dual screens portably.
 
But then, i'd want to use buttons. Using an empty slate without looking at it as a controller is pretty much useless. You'd lose track of where your hands are, and what buttons they were hitting unless you're looking directly at the pad and not at the TV.
In a race to disqualify what ever i said by any means you are losing perspective of things. The answer is it'll vary acording to the game. Some games could use both the Ipad and the TV with user shifting focus between both screens. Others could use the multi touch capabilities of the Ipad screen like a touch pad while the user is focused on the TV or it's basic motion sensing abilities. Others like you correctly pointed out won't work as of now.

But when i gave the answer i was taking into consideration a mature haptic feedback technology. Then you could have some sort of standard button placement according to genres like we have with physical controllers, only with the benefit of customizable user UI.

The thing is... the statements i made are somewhat reasonable, within the realm of possibility and with some examples to be based on. By no means "bullshit" like some defensive posters wanted to convey.
 

B!TCH

how are you, B!TCH? How is your day going, B!ITCH?
I always thought that in an ideal world your 'handheld would be your gaming console and your gaming console would be your handheld' that could be streamed wirelessly to a larger screen or to a second nearby console temporarily for multiplayer games. It would essentially merge handheld and home console gaming seamlessly. It's technically feasible now but I'm not sure if consumers are ready for it (the price would have to be affordable for most people). I think things are moving in the direction already but no one has fully delivered on that vision yet because you would need digital distribution and a robust back-end online service to support all of this.
 

z0m3le

Banned
My advice is not to take examples too literally Blu, z0m3le just used the GTA name, that's all. Also it's not a thread discussing apple's relevance in the gaming market, so no need to get defensive about it.

We are mostly discussing Tablets in general, as that is something the OP is talking about, a Nintendo Tablet of sorts, some people here believe that is the future of gaming (You I guess, though you seem too intelligent to truly believe it)

As for the bullshit comment, Arnold popped into my head, so I had to use it, but it is fitting, Hapnotic feedback simply can not substitute for a controller as well as you make it out to.

Also, Tablets feed a very specific type of gamer, the on the go, 5 to 10 minute gamer, that whole pick up and go type, which is in direct opposition of where every notable developer is heading (larger stories, movie like experiences) Tablets could replace consoles, so could a ball in a cup, but realistically, they are both unlikely.
 
I always thought that in an ideal world your 'handheld would be your gaming console and your gaming console would be your handheld' that could be streamed wirelessly to a larger screen or to a second nearby console temporarily for multiplayer games. It would essentially merge handheld and home console gaming seamlessly. It's technically feasible now but I'm not sure if consumers are ready for it (the price would have to be affordable for most people). I think things are moving in the direction already but no one has fully delivered on that vision yet because you would need digital distribution and a robust back-end online service to support all of this.
Yes, in this case we are more or less aligned in thinking.

That's why im suggesting some of these guys to at least try to imagine the scenario 5 years from now. It's a a venue that Nintendo could very well pursue and it's not an outrageous suggestion given user patterns and technology advancements.

Digital distribution is in lock, but the final destination really is to stream games to the user no matter what platform or device they choose to use but that's more than 5 years a way given the status of network infra structures around the world.
 

neeksleep

Member
In a race to disqualify what ever i said by any means you are losing perspective of things. The answer is it'll vary acording to the game. Some games could use both the Ipad and the TV with user shifting focus between both screens. Others could use the multi touch capabilities of the Ipad screen like a touch pad while the user is focused on the TV or it's basic motion sensing abilities. Others like you correctly pointed out won't work as of now.

But when i gave the answer i was taking into consideration a mature haptic feedback technology. Then you could have some sort of standard button placement according to genres like we have with physical controllers, only with the benefit of customizable user UI.

The thing is... the statements i made are somewhat reasonable, within the realm of possibility and with some examples to be based on. By no means "bullshit" like some defensive posters wanted to convey.

In this case, I could agree with you. I didn't mean to come off trying to target you, I'm just thinking of what technology is available, and what I believe we'll be seeing in the near future, which doesn't include advanced haptic feedback.

Personally (had to highlight that for obvious reasons) though, I think at that point, it would still be more of a comfort thing for me. I'm more comfortable holding a product the size of a 360/GC controller than an ipod/ipad. To be honest, even the Wii-U controller looks a bit too large for me (granted, I won't know until I try it), but it's sort of off putting.

If the Wii-U does well though, I could see Apple adopting the multi-screen-simultaneous play idea.
 

z0m3le

Banned
Yes, in this case we are more or less aligned in thinking.

That's why im suggesting some of these guys to at least try to imagine the scenario 5 years from now. It's a a venue that Nintendo could very well pursue and it's not an outrageous suggestion given user patterns and technology advancements.

Digital distribution is in lock, but the final destination really is to stream games to the user no matter what platform or device they choose to use but that's more than 5 years a way given the status of network infra structures around the world.

Basically this will only happen when Nintendo home consoles lose money and have a market share around that of the gamecube. Otherwise, it would be better for Nintendo to just release a handheld game and a home console game separately.
 

Jokeropia

Member
1) Can Nintendo continue to keep their franchises popular in the next 10-20 years? I hear people already saying their getting bored of Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.
Their franchises are approaching 30 years at this point and are still as popular as ever. Anecdotes like the above are meaningless when contradicted by hard sales data.
 
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