Man I loved my little Gamecube, so many good memories. I'm looking to see if there's anything major you left out but you seem to have got it all. The only thing I see missing is RE 0 (lol).
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Nintendo hits back at Wii U power concern
- Thread starter mocoworm
- Start date
Yup. It's one of my favorite systems of all time. Had you known me during the Gamecube era everyone would have labeled me as a Nintendo fanboy and the world would be a different place in terms of many's perspective on the Amir0x subject.
There are a few games I left off only because I hate them so much I couldn't stomach to include them. Notably, even I couldn't bring myself to force Animal Crossing on the list
Lol no one is making excuses for nintendo my whole stance in this thread is they are going backwards when they shouldn't. And nsmb is great because it was the best 2d platformer in over a decade. Three visuals aren't bleeding edge but they're extremely charming, colorful, and clean.
I did forget windwaker and viewtiful Joe and pikmin 1 but the rest is forgettable. Re4 and the primes are better on the Wii so I'll take the Wii versions. people like me want Wii-esque software and there are a lot of us. I've probably played more brawl, wsr, and nsmbwii then I did the entire cube. Seeing nintendo trying to go for hardcore crap will not only suck for consumers like me but will put nintendo in the same boat they were in the cube days. like I said before hopefully they abandon pandering to a demographic that will never accept then anyway.
$6 per console at launch, according to Forbes iirc
The Wii U has architecture that will allow for porting to happen from next gen consoles. However, it is on the publishers to dedicate resources to do so. Right now, I doubt that's happening as much as Nintendo would like. It would be like running a PC game in low from high (with PC being Ultra of course), but it's possible.
NPD thread.
gamergirly
Member
Wow, these replies are taking up half the screen. Why don't we all agree to disagree? Lol
No when I say making excuses, I mean you obviously don't care if Nintendo puts effort into their products. You have an arbitrary line about what is important, and everything else can go to hell. At least, that's the interpretation I get. I don't know maybe I'm wrong.
Anyway, to me it's not even close to the best 2D platformer. Rayman Origins is for me considerably better, both in level design, challenge, content, audio and visuals. It's the TOTAL package, not just part of a package. I also think Fez is better, Super Meat Boy is better, VVVVV is better, etc. There are many better 2D platformers, and none are content to just run in place. They innovate too.
I never will grasp how certain people can have such an unreserved love for NSMB, which is really offensively easy for like 2/3 of the game. Do you not like challenge or something? The last two worlds I can understand, they're the worlds that remind me of how great Nintendo can be when they put their mind on it. But to say it's better than the entire Gamecube library when it spends most of its time meandering in overly simplistic level design and gross visuals and whatever, I can't grasp that sort of love. It just doesn't jive with what I played.
Whatever dude. I never doubted that we have different priorities, but you're just out on a special field all on your own. To reject such amazing games wholesale to replace with shallow, unrefined garbage like Wii Sports/Resort or whatever, it's not even something I can analyze. It's more unknowable than Quantum Physics to me.
gamergirly said:
Are you on your mobile? Anyway, putting effort into posts is fun
Why would you put an N64 game on a GC list?There are a few games I left off only because I hate them so much I couldn't stomach to include them. Notably, even I couldn't bring myself to force Animal Crossing on the list
This is the worst opinion I've ever seen. I love my Wii, but this is just plain insanity!
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Please add Ikaruga to that list
loved my GC! Sad the wii got less support than a 3rd place system.
loved my GC! Sad the wii got less support than a 3rd place system.
Chasing that casual cash! If more people had got a GC this wouldn't have happened.
I loved the Gamecube. More than the N64. To me the Gamecube was a bigger success than the Wii from a gaming perspective.
Refreshment.01
Member
Careful there. Just wanted to point out that "feature wise" doesn't mean much. Llano is DX11 compliant feature wise, performance is crap compared to some DX10 dedicated cards for example
i guess, but once we get there then for me it's stretching. Killer 7 was unique but definitely had too many fundamental gameplay flaws to appeal to me, imo. Spider-Man 2 was great, although now we're getting into multiplats and I was trying to include only games that were best on GCN at the very least, like BG&E (according to Ancel that was his best version).
But I'd concede that perhaps, but Twin Snakes ... no way! Awful affront to the MGS series legacy, almost as bad as MGS4 in that regard.
I never actually got into Hulk... worth it, I suppose?
But all this proves is that there was a ton of variety enough to appease everyone, even if it didn't appeal to me. Animal Crossing was the casual fans dream, but they still had a plethora of games that appealed to all sets. Wii has significantly diminished that aspect of Nintendo. To me the reason Gamecube didn't succeed is because it didn't have a 'hook', or gimmick, to set it apart from Sony, who dominated so much with PS1 that people needed Nintendo to show them that they weren't going to be another N64. I think because they didn't distinguish themselves from PS2, and was outpowered by Xbox which also had the online hook, it was lost. NOT because, as DKHustlin likes to say, the games were crappy. The games were amazing.
But I'd concede that perhaps, but Twin Snakes ... no way! Awful affront to the MGS series legacy, almost as bad as MGS4 in that regard.
I never actually got into Hulk... worth it, I suppose?
But all this proves is that there was a ton of variety enough to appease everyone, even if it didn't appeal to me. Animal Crossing was the casual fans dream, but they still had a plethora of games that appealed to all sets. Wii has significantly diminished that aspect of Nintendo. To me the reason Gamecube didn't succeed is because it didn't have a 'hook', or gimmick, to set it apart from Sony, who dominated so much with PS1 that people needed Nintendo to show them that they weren't going to be another N64. I think because they didn't distinguish themselves from PS2, and was outpowered by Xbox which also had the online hook, it was lost. NOT because, as DKHustlin likes to say, the games were crappy. The games were amazing.
Killer7 gameplay's was solid but decent (suffered a bit from repetitive gameplay and underused characters) but its story, music, visuals, and voice acting were ace.
Hulk: Ultimate Destruction nailed the feeling of playing as the powerful character and you could destroy a lot of stuff too. It does suffer from repetitive gameplay, but the extensive combat and upgrade system make up for it. Enemies I remember being quite aggressive and the boss battles were mostly good. The environments and mission structure could have used more variety.
I actually didn't care for Twin Snakes, but thought MGS fans may have. I ended up quitting the game after the second Sniper Wolf Battle due to the long-winded cut scenes, I just couldn't take it anymore. I thought it was a solid game, but didn't quite offer as much excitement as I expected out of it.
Hulk: Ultimate Destruction nailed the feeling of playing as the powerful character and you could destroy a lot of stuff too. It does suffer from repetitive gameplay, but the extensive combat and upgrade system make up for it. Enemies I remember being quite aggressive and the boss battles were mostly good. The environments and mission structure could have used more variety.
I actually didn't care for Twin Snakes, but thought MGS fans may have. I ended up quitting the game after the second Sniper Wolf Battle due to the long-winded cut scenes, I just couldn't take it anymore. I thought it was a solid game, but didn't quite offer as much excitement as I expected out of it.
walking fiend
Member
I remember GameSpot once published such a data, difference between Wii and PS3 was some percents; 360 was a multiple of them combined IIRC
I can't disagree Wii being a gamecube didn't help it's decrease rate of failureIt's not really something you can disagree with: it's an established fact that the more advanced your technology is, the more cutting edge it is when it hits market, the more likely it is to have components fail on you. it's not like this is some hot debate, anyone in the technology market knows this to be the case
I will discuss this later in my post.
I find 360 before Slim or PS3@$600 peculiar case; but I will say this: if Slim is worth $200 or PS3 $249, wii should be under $99, probably lower; I understand your point and agree.
I totally see your point. I don't like Mario Kart at all either; I actually find both NSMB and MK boring; then I really loved DKCR, but the motion control feels so forced... NMH could be a really good game, but it wasn't; Twilight Princess was boring when I started it, was boring after putting 10 hours in it, didn't bother further; among Nintendo first party, I only liked Wii Sports Tennis, SMG and Wii Sports Resort. Metroid Prime is excellent , but I can't get myself to finish the first one, it gives me physical headache (I think it's because of the colors; I can't even watch Gears of War gameplay movies either).
However, there were few games I really liked too. SMG is the most intelligent game I have played this decade; Wii Sports Tennis was really a marvelous experience for the first time;
Well, I meant it the other way around
I wanted PS3/360 to be balanced this gen, so we could get another PS2 generation which lead to many new IPs, great games in niche genres, riskier titles, etc.This gen, there was like 5 Wii game that got me interested at launch and since I hadn't owned a Nintendo console before, I went for it (for me it was: Atari and PC and Genesis and PS2 and Wii and DS); and now I think I have like 5-10 games I really like, probably less than you.
But what I really hated this genre, was that after almost 7 years, there are less than 10 games I am interested in outside of Wii and I am not sure if I will like them anyway:
MGS 4 (but lots of people say it is shit)
Heavy Rain (but Fahrenheit ending was so bad I puked despite the rest of game being really good)
GoW III (but I found even GoWII a rehash)
Lost Odyssey (but I find it hard to be even remotely as good as FF X)
Bayonetta (if the gameplay is even as good as DMC3, I will love it)
Vanquish (think the action can be really good)
Batman (think it can be a really good beat'em up)
Uncharted (I am pretty certain it is a boring linear shooter, but I want to make certain)
Now I am literally not interested in any other game and wouldn't even bother trying them if I am given for free.
---
I am strongly against high end systems, because this genre we didn't get anything like Jak & Daxter, Onimusha, Psychonauts, NBA Street, Silent Hill, Resident Evil, SMT series, FFX, Shadow Hearts, etc.; we are yet to be shown evena gameplay of The Last Guardian for fucks sake! Where's the GoW of this gen to push the boundaries of being scale?
But it was full of games we already would get on PCs anyway: CoDs, Mass Effects, Elders Scrolls, Max Payne, FarCry, Crysis, etc.
I am angry, because everyone is acted so stupid:
Nintendo made a good enough a console to sell millions; but it was so weak that HD games couldn't be ported to it, which meant any games made for other systems would lost a lot of its potential demographic due to being on Wii; not only this, they forced motion controls, failed at making a proper classic controller, and had a horrible online system. They also failed to even direct the development by using their 1st and 2nd parties
PS3/360: they got so caught up in the graphics and was launched at such a high price, that prevented publishers from taking risk and at the same time had to resort to games normally played on the PC market
---
I think there isn't really much to argue over; I think Wii had like 10 titles worth playing, you think so; I think HD consoles have 10 titles that may be worth playing, but you think there are lots of them; I think we have to disagree on this.
I personally don't have a problem with paying $500 for a console, but only as long as it gets enough games that I want to buy; but I guess another gen with $500 hardware, will totally destroy my hope for getting games I like.
TDLink
Member
I think he was saying NSMB was the first great 2D platformer in over a decade (ie, when it came out), not in the last decade. Of which I would probably agree. It re-energized the genre. Without it those others probably wouldn't have happened.
I'd also argue that there was a lot more effort put into first party products by Nintendo on Wii than on Gamecube. Gamecube era saw them outsourcing a lot of their work like SF Assualt to Namco or F-Zero GX to SEGA and new studios like Retro with Metroid Prime 1 and 2. A lot of the results of that were great, not saying no. Internally though their output was not as strong on the whole. Whatever you think of Super Mario Sunshine or Wind Waker (both of which I think were great) they were definitely different and departed from norms for those franchises. They also both were not as expansive as their successors on the Wii in terms of scope or depth, as great as I think both of them are. In general a lot of Nintendo's output on gamecube were smaller experiences like Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin.
While things are up in the air still, there is still the possibility that ports may require more work than your insinuating here if the ps4/720 were pushed hard enough.
NPD doesn't prove my comment wrong, all it proves is the PS360 is priced too high. Do you honestly believe the sales would be the same if the 360 was priced at $100?
Better yet, do you believe a $300 Wii-U would be better for the casual audience than a 360 or PS3? PS360 have motion options, a huge library with plenty of cheap games, and are likely to be cheaper than the Wii-U this fall.
I still can't think of one good reason why any company should put a major focus on the casual audience at launch, for many reasons.
Nsmb is the best performer because the controls are perfect. You may not like the visuals but I'll take them over rayman because the game isn't crap. The secrets are good, the level design is awesome, abd it is pick up and play. It is the whole package but were just arguing opinions. Nsmb however sold way more than 3d sunshine abd galaxy so it shows that it is something people want that isn't available anywhere else. The cube just had no killer app, maybe melee but sunshine is easily the worst Mario game. I liked it, even loved it, but its the worst Mario by far. You seem to be mad nintendo ignored your niche taste with the Wii but that's cause they can't sustain a growing company on niche sales. if gamers really wanted hardcore nintendo they would have bought more cubes but they didn't.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Dude come on. It's not even the best 2D platformer on the Wii.
That honor, of course, goes to Donkey Kong Country Returns.
walking fiend
Member
The question is not whether 360+Kinect is better for them, but whether in reality they see it as a better product than Wii U. Wii U has the automatic advantage of a being a new system; it has the advantage of having a tablet; it also has the advantage of being compatible with all their Wii accessory and all the Wii games out there.
However, the real question is that if casual gamers are interested in buying a new system altogether?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
To sell games to the Wii U userbase. Developing a multiplatform Wii/PS3/X360 game with Wii as base definitely makes the PS3 and X360 versions stand out as far behind other HD-only games on those systems, as we rarely saw with games like Samurai Warriors 3. The disparity shouldn't be nearly as great this time around, so to a PS4 game buyer the reason to choose a PS4/Durango-only game versus a WiiU/PS4/Durango game should be less.RoninChaos said:
Well that all depends on how the companies market them and how they are presented by the retailers. Also, we're talking about casuals buying a new system, so of course they are interested in a new system. There's no reason to discuss possibilities over people that aren't even interested.
If Joe Shmoe walked into a store, which do you think would be an easier sell:
The Wii-U, just came out, has ~40 game at $60, and cost around $300.
OR:
The PS360, has 400+ games at various prices, and are likely cheaper than $300.
This is a market that doesn't care about specs, doesn't care about early adoption, doesn't follow games, are unlikely to be blindly devoted to any said company, and are the most likely to go for the best deal.
It's not easy to see how selling a brand new console to the casual audience is a stupid idea.
Sure but that was after nsmbwii. I meant preceding nsmbs release my bad if that was unclear. but even still nsmbwii Is better than the whole gc library. Hell, I'd say its better than the ps3 and 360 library as well.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
TDLink
Member
Lolno. There is more to gaming than Mario.
Refreshment.01
Member
Stop calling WiiU gamepad a tablet, that's expected from an oblivious by stander alien to the videogame world, not someone that actively posts in this type of message boards.
On topic, price is everything for the WiiU. Nintendo could clean if they release this at Wii price. Plus brisk sales would guarantee them more or less 2 years of ports.
Projectjustice
Banned
http://www.ign.com/wikis/wii-u/Wii_U_Tech_Specs
IGN is reporting a rumor that the Wii U has a 6770 under the hood and supports DX11. hmmm....
IGN is reporting a rumor that the Wii U has a 6770 under the hood and supports DX11. hmmm....
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Congratulations. You've made GAF history.
walking fiend
Member
It's really hard to say what Joe Shmoe would do, specially as long as we don't know what type of gamer he is; And maybe most importantly, we don't know how many persons are out there representing each type of Joe Schmoe:
Joe Schmoe
will NOT buy a Wii U, if he is:
a interested in better graphics
b core games at cheap prices
c a console to play online games with his friends
d playing core games but hadn't money to buy consoles
e is interested in controller free gaming
Will DO buy a Wii U, if he is:
a new experiences
b casual games at cheap prices
c playing local multiplayer games
d playing new casual/Nintendo games and have money
e is interested in GamePad off-tv play for games, netflix, etc.
f want to buy just something new as a Christmas purchase
we can of course add or remove categories to each of these, but the most important part will be identifying how many of them are in each category
I like other games outside Mario but Mario is easily the most fun I've had in games.,nsmbwiiu looks to continue what I enjoyed so much and I hope nintendo goes after the fun ideal instead of the power ideal.
So be it i'm secure enough in my taste of games to say that.
TDLink
Member
You obviously don't like much if you honestly believe that it alone is better than the entire libraries of the PS3, 360, and Gamecube.
majortom1981
Member
People will ignore that because it doesnt fit in with the wii u is underpowered sentiment that is going around.
TDLink
Member
If true this is a good indication that it will be able to run UE4 without issue.
Always-honest
Banned
Hell yes.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Also, because it's bullshit. People need to stop saying that consoles have desktop video cards. It's starting to become one of my pet peeves.
Projectjustice
Banned
Come to think of it, I think a lot posters here want the Wii U to be under powered.
majortom1981
Member
They do not BUT because of that very reason we do not know how powerfull the wii u truly is so people cant say that its under powered either.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Everyone's favorite game has to be something.
TDLink
Member
Sure, but no one's favourite game is better than an entire library of a system put together. Even if it is the best game ever, those other platforms have enough good that cumulatively they could end up being better than that one game.
walking fiend
Member
well, I think to people whatever that has a touch interface and has browser and also play games is a tablet; it fit most criteria
(though the reason I call it tablet, is that writing GamePad is hard cause I HAVE TO capitalize it)---
It is true that Wii U may not be much powerful than PS3, but it's not like that it is going to cost the same, particularly because of the GamePad which apparently is going to cost a lot.
Refreshment.01
Member
A few people? maybe but not everyone, what sane people expect is that a defensive group of followers open their eyes and take a sweet breath of reality. The console is a step above 7 year hardware and not a significant leap.
Agent Unknown
Member
I have to say, Nintendo's PR performance and media behavior during and after this E3 has been terrible. I honestly can't think of a time where they've been quite honestly, this incompetent and downright unprofessional in promoting themselves and a new product of theirs. First in 2011 and through 2012 they boldly proclaim "We're going after Core gamers!!! We want you guys on board too!!!" but then proceed to give those prospective customers an E3 conference with a heavy focus on a karaoke game, a Wii Fit game, and a glorified minigame collection. I don't care if you're a Nintendo fan, PS3, 360, PC gamer, whoever, that is just insulting behavior from a consumer standpoint and makes them look incredibly disingenuous and downright foolish.
And the fact they paid who knows how many millions of dollars to SpikeTV and MTV2 as the first big public unveiling of the console's launch debut just makes my head spin. What was the point? I can't even imagine how many of Spike's viewers alone would have even bothered sitting through the entire thing, surely both channels lost serious ratings that day during that time period.
Then after the conference (which Iwata diidn't even bother to come out on stage for), you have Reggie boldly insisting to Geoff that Arkham City IS a new game since it has add ons. And then in a move that is mindblowingly stupid from a PR standpoint for gaining enthusiasm and consumer confidence for a new gaming console, he tells IGN that third parties can basically just jump on board if they want to 'after they have an install base' (a line which he repeats AGAIN in this interview!).
Now we also hear Miyamoto flat out saying they're not concerned about having a competitive online service. Why am I supposed to care about Miiverse and the system's online infrastructure if they don't care beyond what they want in it? And with this interview, Reggie is again being all weird and combative, proclaiming GC was the winner in power last gen (seriously, what on earth?) and saying we didn't get Skyrim, ect. but we'll get them NOW because we have HD ect. Unless he's dropping names (which I seriously doubt as jealously as he guards info), that's some pretty bold smack to be talking and needs to be backed up by ACTIONS because it would be pretty sad if by saying that he just expects those parties to approach THEM at this point.
Honestly, what is going on with this company? One or two heads need to roll at this point. Unless there are some serious third party bombs dropped between now and launch, they've lost a ton of credibility that they will have to struggle to regain at this point, if they can.
Are you for real? The same people who helped make the DS a huge success and who probably already also have had dual analog controllers in their homes for years won't bother with a dual analog controller with a classic button layout that also happens to have a touch screen or will think this concept is too foreign to be immediately grasped? Is this really the best argument you could think of? It's going to be funny looking back on posts like this in a few years if MS and Sony decide to make their own imitation touch screen controllers.
And the fact they paid who knows how many millions of dollars to SpikeTV and MTV2 as the first big public unveiling of the console's launch debut just makes my head spin. What was the point? I can't even imagine how many of Spike's viewers alone would have even bothered sitting through the entire thing, surely both channels lost serious ratings that day during that time period.
Then after the conference (which Iwata diidn't even bother to come out on stage for), you have Reggie boldly insisting to Geoff that Arkham City IS a new game since it has add ons. And then in a move that is mindblowingly stupid from a PR standpoint for gaining enthusiasm and consumer confidence for a new gaming console, he tells IGN that third parties can basically just jump on board if they want to 'after they have an install base' (a line which he repeats AGAIN in this interview!).
Now we also hear Miyamoto flat out saying they're not concerned about having a competitive online service. Why am I supposed to care about Miiverse and the system's online infrastructure if they don't care beyond what they want in it? And with this interview, Reggie is again being all weird and combative, proclaiming GC was the winner in power last gen (seriously, what on earth?) and saying we didn't get Skyrim, ect. but we'll get them NOW because we have HD ect. Unless he's dropping names (which I seriously doubt as jealously as he guards info), that's some pretty bold smack to be talking and needs to be backed up by ACTIONS because it would be pretty sad if by saying that he just expects those parties to approach THEM at this point.
Honestly, what is going on with this company? One or two heads need to roll at this point. Unless there are some serious third party bombs dropped between now and launch, they've lost a ton of credibility that they will have to struggle to regain at this point, if they can.
Are you for real? The same people who helped make the DS a huge success and who probably already also have had dual analog controllers in their homes for years won't bother with a dual analog controller with a classic button layout that also happens to have a touch screen or will think this concept is too foreign to be immediately grasped? Is this really the best argument you could think of? It's going to be funny looking back on posts like this in a few years if MS and Sony decide to make their own imitation touch screen controllers.
Projectjustice
Banned
Sane people would but this is neogaf. Many posters play the behind the shadows fanboy wars. No one wants to get banned, but there are few that do.
TDLink
Member
Well, it may not be a leap but I think it is probably more than the small step people are making it out to be also. PS3/360 were developed with 2005 tech. Wii U, as reports indicate, seem to be developed with 2009 tech along with some 2012 parts. That is at least 4 years of advancement of the technology that will be in the box. Plus we still don't have the final specs.
IMHO I think Cube had a lot more better games than the Wii. I fucking played the shit out of Soul Calibur II.
Also the GC had Day of Reckoning 2 and Geist. Offline multiplayer was a blessing.
walking fiend
Member
I myself find it really hard to believe if specially late ports like Batman and Mass Effect will sell on Wii U anything over few 100ks; but then I remind myself that RE4 sold "2m" on Wii;
well, it had a better control for such games to say the least...
Steve Youngblood
Member
They should just never release specs. That way, even after release, we can speculate that nobody really knows how powerful the hardware is, and therefore it might really be pretty spectacular even if the software doesn't demonstrate that fact.