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Platinum Games talks about their business challenges, licensed games, and owning IPs

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Source: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/atsushi-inaba-platinum-has-no-future-without-its-own-ips

There's more from the interview at the link.

Partial Summary:
  • Inaba notes that they're currently working on licensed games like The Legend of Korra because they need to, but in the long term they want to be independent.
  • "The company doesn't really have a future unless we develop our own original IPs."
  • Platinum currently owns none of the IPs they've worked on, including Scalebound, despite being partnered with Microsoft, who often lets developers keep their IPs.
  • Inaba implies that Platinum would like to develop and self publish their own IPs at some point. Obviously you need money to do that though. I put the full quote below.
  • "Because we don't have our own original IP, we don't have the chance to develop it, publish it. We're not used to the cycle of making one," Inaba says. "We're trying to get used to the cycle of making sequels."
  • When asked if he considers Platinum to be part of the Japanese indie scene, Inaba replies: "Platinum is becoming bigger, so we're kind of in a limbo. But I feel like Platinum is part of that community."
  • "When we first started, we had a lot more freedom to create what we wanted, but now we're working more with the community, listening to what they have to say, and keeping open those lines of communication."
  • "Of course we want games that sell five or six million copies, but once you start focusing on sales, we lose some of that freedom. So right now we're focused on both."
  • Inaba gave a non-answer when asked if they were making any original IPs that they own.
  • Inaba didn't seem to provide any answers about how they intend to ever actually fund a self owned IP, much less self publish it.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
Feels like it's a goal they've been chasing for a while, but seems unattainable with the current state of the Japanese market unless you were to make a full-fledged globally focused IP of some sort, which is already a risky effort in itself before you go through the huge efforts of self-publishing (which I believe Platinum has never done).
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
I had no idea they owned none of their IPs. I knew that they owned none of what they produced on 360 and ps3 but I was almost sure they owned wonderful 101 but I guess nintendo owns it?
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Feels like it's a goal they've been chasing for a while, but seems unattainable with the current state of the Japanese market unless you were to make a full-fledged globally focused IP of some sort, which is already a risky effort in itself before you go through the huge efforts of self-publishing (which I believe Platinum has never done).

I think they'd have to start with smaller digital titles funded by their contract work the way studios like Ninja Theory and Insomniac are.

That or they can try to convince a mini publisher to help them. Some places like that are more open to them owning the IP, usually in exchange for sequel publishing rights.

I'm not sure Kickstarter would be the right scale for what they'd want to do, since they'd presumably want at least $2-$4 million. GameStop and Paradox work with a bit larger budgets, but being a Japanese studio puts up a lot of barriers.
 

Ridley327

Member
I had no idea they owned none of their IPs. I knew that they owned none of what they produced on 360 and ps3 but I was almost sure they owned wonderful 101 but I guess nintendo owns it?

It's very rare that Nintendo doesn't own the IP on anything they fund. Pokémon is obviously a big example of that, but for recent stuff, you also have The Last Story and Devil's Third for recent examples.
 
5-6 million is a very high goal.

I had no idea they owned none of their IPs. I knew that they owned none of what they produced on 360 and ps3 but I was almost sure they owned wonderful 101 but I guess nintendo owns it?

Microsoft seems like one of the few publishers to let you keep IP like Ryse and Sunset Overdrive. Nintendo definitely doesn't.

Edit:

It's very rare that Nintendo doesn't own the IP on anything they fund. Pokémon is obviously a big example of that, but for recent stuff, you also have The Last Story and Devil's Third for recent examples.

Forgot about Devil's Third but The Last Story is a Nintendo IP. That Last Story content in Terra Battle has them listed.
 

TreIII

Member
I hope they're able to get to that point, someday.

The moment when P* can finally realize their own destinies and not HAVE to take side gigs from Activision, or have to circle back to Sega in some form or fashion in order to make a sequel to one of their beloved games, will be a most joyous day, indeed.
 

True Fire

Member
It's kind of a depressing interview. And rightfully so; outside of fandom echo chambers, Platinum has had multiple stumbles through the years. And I'm guessing neither NieR nor Scalebound will be the hit they need.
 
Kickstart an original Platinum action game and I'm there.

Edit: and yes I think Devolver Digital or even Adult Swim Games would make fantastic partners for them.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
5-6 million is a very high goal.

That's about what you need to sell to finance your career in self publishing.

Techland for example used publishers forever, but after Dying Light (5+ million copies), they were able to move to self publishing.

It's also a good line for signing up sweet publishing deals that would allow them more freedom if they stuck with that route.

That said, it's a very hard number to hit and I don't see an obvious path for them to ever get there.
 
Sounds like they're stuck in the middle of a vicious AAA console cycle and actually needing to keep the lights on (licensed games).

Why not try making a a few games for the lest "hit" driven PC/Steam market instead? See if something clicks and go from there? If they find success, like From with Souls, they can build a base on that.
 

Apathy

Member
Surprising that they don't own scalebound. Microsoft lets devs keep their IPs. Wonder what happen in that deal.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
It's kind of a depressing interview. And rightfully so; outside of fandom echo chambers, Platinum has had multiple stumbles through the years. And I'm guessing neither NieR nor Scalebound will be the hit they need.

Yeah, it's actually quite sobering, makes me wonder how long they have if they keep going the way they are =/

Very surprised they don't own any IPs, especially Scalebound right now.
 

Rymuth

Member
Figured that it's not a long-term prospect for them.

Problem is, they're stuck in a loop. They work on a licensed game which sells just about enough to keep the lights on but not enough to work on their own IP, so the cycle begins again. It's hard to break that pattern.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Very worried about Platinum post Scalebound.

Turtles game was trash as well which might have rubbed Activision's nose a little bit. Seems only Saito can do these franchised projects well on small budgets and time.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Sounds like they're stuck in the middle of a vicious AAA console cycle and actually needing to keep the lights on (licensed games).

Why not try making a a few games for the lest "hit" driven PC/Steam market instead? See if something clicks and go from there? If they find success, like From with Souls, they can build a base on that.

Making something on the scale of Dark Souls is going to be at least $15-$20+ million, even if they're cutting a lot of corners compared to Dark Souls itself.

If you mean something more like Salt & Sanctuary, at that point you're probably more around $500K-$1 million, but if that was what they wanted to make, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.
 

Sesha

Member
Unless they go via Kickstarter, indiegogo or Fig, or they partner with a smaller publisher such as Deep Silver, Paradox or GameStop, they're not gonna get to keep their IPs. I think they need to try what DoubleFine is doing. Have a couple of teams of 5-10 people develop some small games and self-publish them via Steam/XBL/PSN/Nintendo eShop and sell them on their own, and try to create some successful titles that way.
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
They could try making some smaller games and self publishing on steam and ID@Xbox couldnt they?

Or is there a reason why that might be a bad idea?

I dont think it would be too hard to self fund a small release.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
They could try making some smaller games and self publishing on steam and ID@Xbox couldnt they?

Or is there a reason why that might be a bad idea?

That's the most realistic approach, but I get the sense they're not sure what to do at that kind of budget scale that would both succeed and that they'd be interested in.

I could be wrong.

I'm also not sure how much money they actually have to employ 5+ people on a game that's not published by a publisher. That's still likely $250-$300K+ a year even at Japanese salaries.

That is money they could extract from external sources pretty easily though, at least in theory.
 
Very worried about Platinum post Scalebound.

Turtles game was trash as well which might have rubbed Activision's nose a little bit. Seems only Saito can do these franchised projects well on small budgets and time.
Not sure Hashimoto nor Kamiya have tackled licensed games. Transformers was good but the Korra team is pretty garbage made worse by short dev times (TMNT likely had less than a year and a half)
I feel like Hashimoto and Kamiya, given the dev time, could make a good licensed game
 

Kanann

Member
With their track records and Japan market now a day, seem there is no future for them on console gaming. Let alone creating new IP.
 

MacTag

Banned
Surprising that they don't own scalebound. Microsoft lets devs keep their IPs. Wonder what happen in that deal.
Microsoft's almost never let a Japanese developer keep their IP. Blinx, Kakuto Chojin, NUDE, Wild Rings, Game Party, Blue Dragon, N3, Lost Odyssey, Infinite Undiscovery, Lips, Ninja Blade, Haunt, Crimson Dragon, etc; Microsoft owns them all. The only time they did seemingly was D4 with Access Games, which presumably means it was largely self funded.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Very worried about Platinum post Scalebound.

Turtles game was trash as well which might have rubbed Activision's nose a little bit. Seems only Saito can do these franchised projects well on small budgets and time.

I don't think Activision really cares about licensed game quality unless Platinum costs notably more than the z-tier studios they normally hire.
 

Big_Al

Unconfirmed Member
That's about what you need to sell to finance your career in self publishing.

Techland for example used publishers forever, but after Dying Light (5+ million copies), they were able to move to self publishing.

It's also a good line for signing up sweet publishing deals that would allow them more freedom if they stuck with that route.

That said, it's a very hard number to hit and I don't see an obvious path for them to ever get there.

The one thing I'm wondering about is what the relationship is between Techland and Warner Bros for Dying Light ? Did Warner Bros. just handle the physical distribution whilst Techland funded it, own the IP etc ? The digital versions on PC/GOG are at least published by them.
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
And people say Nintendo doesn't create new IPs. (I'm still annoyed people say Splatoon is the first new IP since Pikmin)
Yeah, early interviews stated that W101 was intended to be a sister series to Super Smash Bros with all the Nintendo characters teaming up. Like they would stand on each other's shoulders and become a bridge (a concept implemented in W101). Plus looking at the character's in the final product, some Nintendo connections could be made. Wonder-Red's punching and fire powers are like Mario, Wonder-Blue's sword skills are like Link

Yeah it would be cool if Platinum would claim ownership on their own IPs. Maybe someday MS can allow them to own Scalebound.
I can understand why they do licensed stuff. Hopefully more Transformers Devastation and less Korra/TMNT.

I still liked Star Fox Zero

Not sure Hashimoto nor Kamiya have tackled licensed games. Transformers was good but the Korra team is pretty garbage made worse by short dev times (TMNT likely had less than a year and a half)
I feel like Hashimoto and Kamiya, given the dev time, could make a good licensed game

Kamiya Super Sentai/Power Rangers game.
FUND IT!
 

Ridley327

Member
I don't think Activision really cares about licensed game quality unless Platinum costs notably more than the z-tier studios they normally hire.

Honestly, the bigger question is if Activision is still going to be interested in doing those kinds of games anymore. Activision Value is dead, and Ghostbusters seems to be the last project that would have come out of them.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
The one thing I'm wondering about is what the relationship is between Techland and Warner Bros for Dying Light ? Did Warner Bros. just handle the physical distribution whilst Techland funded it, own the IP etc ? The digital versions on PC/GOG are at least published by them.

I'm guessing the game was a cofunding arrangement not too dissimilar to how The Witcher 3 worked.
 
I recalls them saying they didn't want to be tied to just making action games forever either but that kind of happened. Some people forget they made a turn based RPG ages ago. They're just now warming up to (finally?) doing Action RPGs with Nier Automata and Scalebound, hope it turns out well for them. They really do need to reassign the Korra and TMNT director though, he's obviously not good enough versus the other talent they have there (such as Kamiya, Saito, Taura etc).
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I don't think Activision really cares about licensed game quality unless Platinum costs notably more than the z-tier studios they normally hire.

After really enjoying the Transformers Cybertron games and the fate of High Moon and other studios like them, forgive me if "longevity as Activision franchise slave" isn't a sure thing to be comfortable with.

Not sure Hashimoto nor Kamiya have tackled licensed games. Transformers was good but the Korra team is pretty garbage made worse by short dev times (TMNT likely had less than a year and a half)
I feel like Hashimoto and Kamiya, given the dev time, could make a good licensed game

My main complaint with Kamiya has been his lack of focus in his games adding needless mini-games and letting the scope get away from him. Thats the opposite of what Saito has been achieving. I also didn't enjoy Bayo 2 as much sadly.

Whose the main guy on NieR?
 

Peff

Member
They could try making some smaller games and self publishing on steam and ID@Xbox couldnt they?

Or is there a reason why that might be a bad idea?

I dont think it would be too hard to self fund a small release.

3D Action games are expensive to make. Korra is not far from the ceiling budget a cheaper downloadable action game can afford to have, and reception wasn't too hot on that one. They could try with something relatively cheaper like a new take on Viewtiful Joe, but it's a big risk either way because the less niche your game is, the more games you have to compete with.
 
And people say Nintendo doesn't create new IPs. (I'm still annoyed people say Splatoon is the first new IP since Pikmin)

Well...they're kinda right in this case. W101 may be owned by Nintendo, but it's still very clearly Kamiya's baby from top to bottom. Splatoon on the other hand was internally developed and 100% has Nintendo EAD (now EPD)'s DNA in it. That's what people mean when they say Splatoon is their newest character based IP from Nintendo.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Honestly, the bigger question is if Activision is still going to be interested in doing those kinds of games anymore. Activision Value is dead, and Ghostbusters seems to be the last project that would have come out of them.
They seem to have a few selective licenses still going, like Transformers.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them wind down the works. I think the last time they licensed something new was in 2013 when they bought the Nickelodeon stuff.
 

Ridley327

Member
After really enjoying the Transformers Cybertron games and the fate of High Moon and other studios like them, forgive me if "longevity as Activision franchise slave" isn't a sure thing to be comfortable with.
At least in this case, Platinum does have a say as an independent studio and wouldn't be at the whims of Activision to be retooled into something else, like a CoD or Destiny support studio.
 
Sounds like they're stuck in the middle of a vicious AAA console cycle and actually needing to keep the lights on (licensed games).

Why not try making a a few games for the lest "hit" driven PC/Steam market instead? See if something clicks and go from there? If they find success, like From with Souls, they can build a base on that.
They won't make money doing that. From don't own Souls either so what's the comparison there?
 
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