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eyeball_kid · Jan 17, 2017

orioto said:
See this gif for exemple

You can say it's washed out, there is no detail in the grass anymore compared to the reveal or anything. But the truth is that it's soft and fluffy as fuck and that's the look they want obviously.

What footage is this from, btw?

Caelus · Jan 17, 2017

It's certainly possible that the old E3 target render was the game running on the Wii U, but when they decided to implement more physics, runes, and increase the size of the open world (the Great Plateau is apparently less than 2% of the game), the graphics took a hit.

Still, the current footage of the game looks incredible, and there are environments we haven't seen yet.

Ryoku · Jan 17, 2017

People are underestimating how much Youtube artifacting affects the image quality.
You cannot do precise pixel-counting with them, I suspect. And all of the much finer details in textures and other nuances are essentially blurred away due to compression.
As a result, the image appears much softer than it really is.

For this game specifically, all the individual blades of grass tend to appear less detailed because the compression algorithm "simplifies" it into a giant green area.

If anyone has uncompressed footage of the game, I'd love to watch those.

icecold1983 · Jan 18, 2017

ElectricKaibutsu said:
I'm looking at this on mobile so maybe that's it but this below looks pretty darn close to me.

LordOfChaos · Jan 18, 2017

Toadthemushroom said:
It's almost certainly down to how Wii U only outputs limited-range RGB, which has been an issue since launch day and something Nintendo still hasn't fixed at the OS level yet. Looked fine and vibrant on my decade-old HDTV, but on my monitor it looks washed out.

Why does capture from other vibrant games not look like that? I.e Mario Kart for Wii U vs Switch.

If the capture tool was matched up right to the limited RGB it should look fine in videos anyways.

InfiniteCombo · Jan 18, 2017

Milly Osworth said:
Haha, you have seen some things.

I think Nintendo are masterful at animation. In fact they are. Thats the problem with pixelcounters, it must be the absolute best done so far, or it is shit. Also, show me the horse riding animations that are so much better than in Botw.

Actually dont. Lets live and let live, if pixelcounting makes you happy then thats good for you. Ill live in my world where I think that gif looks absolutely amazing.

Hmmm... Some raw emotions in this thread.

If I go to a foodie event and mention that the "hints of raspberry" in my dish are delicious, when the subtle ingredient is in fact strawberry, I'm gonna get laughed out of the event. And I can't get upset with them for highlighting my flawed food analysis. "You silly foodies, I don't care what you all say, this dish tastes good regardless of whether it's hints of strawberry or raspberry!!"

As the GAFer you were engaging with (politely) noted, you're in a Digital Foundry thread. "Pixelcounting" -- which you seem to be using in a pejorative sense, but let's put that aside for a moment -- is exactly what happens in these kinds of threads.

In any case, if you enjoy the style and graphics of this new Zelda, that's great. I do too, and very much looking forward to this game.

-shadow- · Jan 18, 2017

LordOfChaos said:
Why does capture from other vibrant games not look like that? I.e Mario Kart for Wii U vs Switch.

If the capture tool was matched up right to the limited RGB it should look fine in videos anyways.

Well that's just the thing. I legit wouldn't be surprised if no one at NOA ever realized that the settings are potentially incorrect because most of the stuff they show looks washed out regardless of the game. Iirc a lot of their videos on YouTube also used some bizarre frame-rate which would looks rather weird once YT had converted them into their standard. Something that didn't happen on other channels from what I can gather.

Gangster Bastard · Jan 18, 2017

eyeball_kid said:
Looking back at the first footage from 2014, everything felt much more saturated, more like a Miyazaki film. All of the recent footage is washed-out. That bothers me much more than the low-res textures and lumpy terrain.

I want this Zelda again:

I can see how it's more technologically advanced, but I always found that teaser a bit garish, almost harsh on the eyes. Not something I'd ever say about a Ghibli movie:

Code:

[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e1/fe/6c/e1fe6cc3676b037764d2f5329e251563.jpg[/IMG]

I very much like the look of the current build. I just hope Nintendo are as good at creating environments that aren't idyllic grasslands and forests. The volcano and desert area in Skyward Sword were so dull.

BONKERS · Jan 18, 2017

EvB said:
I think that much like Dishonored, the textures are supposed to have painterly quality.
However, much like Dishonored, some will perceive them as just low quality

It's not that they are painterly, is that the game is rendered at low resolution and has the lowest quality texture filtering possible short of none at all.
Which makes what are actually GOOD looking textures if you were to look at the files, look like shit. The texture filtering is so bad here, you can see parts of the textures drawing in as Link approaches them.
(I will not touch this game in TV mode with a ten foot pole.)

Just look at the difference in the quality of textures from Trilinear to 16x AF here in a relatively recent modern game.

End Times
and an older one. Lost Planet.

I would sooner dial back another area than ever sacrifice Texture Filtering. I would never settle for less than 4x bare minimum. Especially at 30FPS, where the performance hit on any decent hardware should be close to 0% with all that extra render time.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/197530
Here's another using WOTS4 http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/197536 (Impossible to get the same position) and Deadly Tower of Monsters http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/197535 (Less noticeable)

Speaking of Zelda, 1600x900 with bad AA and texture filtering is going look incredibly muddy upscaled to 3840x2160
https://abload.de/img/64pzslkhsov.jpg
https://abload.de/img/nintendoswitch_tlozbrzsskw.jpg
https://abload.de/img/nintendoswitch_tlozbrorsi6.jpg
Just makes me cringe at how incredible this game could actually look rendered at 4k native with 16xAF with actually decent draw distances.
Just look at how nice Wii U games at 4k look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTCMxWWyk_4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFXUiEX3XAQ&
https://i.imgur.com/Q9vm0MO.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xqNJ8Jyi4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM5-LjaDl98
https://a.pomf.cat/medoqv.png
http://i.imgur.com/tqfSCDP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I3Ci3Fj.jpg
https://abload.de/img/xeno4kk2owp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OCjUu6K.jpg
^Hnnnnng

I'm sure at 720p in handheld mode will look pretty decent though since it will be native resolution.

Milly Osworth · Jan 18, 2017

InfiniteCombo said:
Hmmm... Some raw emotions in this thread.

If I go to a foodie event and mention that the "hints of raspberry" in my dish are delicious, when the subtle ingredient is in fact strawberry, I'm gonna get laughed out of the event. And I can't get upset with them for highlighting my flawed food analysis. "You silly foodies, I don't care what you all say, this dish tastes good regardless of whether it's hints of strawberry or raspberry!!"

As the GAFer you were engaging with (politely) noted, you're in a Digital Foundry thread. "Pixelcounting" -- which you seem to be using in a pejorative sense, but let's put that aside for a moment -- is exactly what happens in these kinds of threads.

In any case, if you enjoy the style and graphics of this new Zelda, that's great. I do too, and very much looking forward to this game.

Your analogy isn't right though. I said the animation is amazing, you can't say "WRONG, it's actually bad animation, fact!" like your analogy with raspberry and strawberry. Because animation quality is subjective. Unlike how many pixels, frames or effects there are. And really, how can anyone say the animation in that gif is anything but at least great?

KHlover · Jan 18, 2017

Ryoku said:
People are underestimating how much Youtube artifacting affects the image quality.
You cannot do precise pixel-counting with them, I suspect. And all of the much finer details in textures and other nuances are essentially blurred away due to compression.
As a result, the image appears much softer than it really is.

For this game specifically, all the individual blades of grass tend to appear less detailed because the compression algorithm "simplifies" it into a giant green area.

If anyone has uncompressed footage of the game, I'd love to watch those.

DigitalFoundry has the uncompressed version of their vid as a download for patreon backers.

Iceternal · Jan 18, 2017

IMHO... This game is gorgeous but the technical aspects really hold it back.

The game deserves better than the Wii U or the Switch.

I can't wait to see it running at 4K on Cemu if it is possible one day.

Toadthemushroom · Jan 18, 2017

LordOfChaos said:
Why does capture from other vibrant games not look like that? I.e Mario Kart for Wii U vs Switch.

If the capture tool was matched up right to the limited RGB it should look fine in videos anyways.

Do we have direct-feed footage of Mario Kart 8 for comparison? iirc Digital Foundry's was of the new inkling battle arena.

Mr. Wonderful · Jan 18, 2017

The vocal minority that won't accept anything but 4K is hilarious.

While generally I'd be the first person to speak up about the leap in detail from 720 to 1080p, there were only a couple of Wii U games where I ever actually noticed the 720p resolution (Xenoblade Chronicles X, and a few games with aliasing). Now all of a sudden 900p is the worst thing ever. Not to mention the diminishing returns from 1080p to 4K. Honestly, the couple of games I've played on my PS4 Pro at 1800p, and the few PC games I've played at 1440p, the only advantage I appreciated is slightly less aliasing.

KingSnake · Jan 18, 2017

Mr. Wonderful said:
The vocal minority that won't accept anything but 4K is hilarious.

While generally I'd be the first person to speak up about the leap in detail from 720 to 1080p, there were only a couple of Wii U games where I ever actually noticed the 720p resolution (Xenoblade Chronicles X, and a few games with aliasing). Now all of a sudden 900p is the worst thing ever. Not to mention the diminishing returns from 1080p to 4K. Honestly, the couple of games I've played on my PS4 Pro at 1800p, and the few PC games I've played at 1440p, the only advantage I appreciated is slightly less aliasing.

That anti aliasing would be the thing that would benefit Zelda the more. Have you seen how much aliasing Zelda has? It's practically similar with Xenoblade X and that game looks absolutely stunning at 4k.

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