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ggx2ac · Jan 15, 2017

Update:

Finally, someone got a good image of the HD Rumble in their teardown of the Switch.

From this blog: http://kako.com/blog/?p=24418

Here is the teardown image of the HD Rumble:

Here is the image of Alps Electric Haptic Reactor in a drawing of the product from their site: http://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/HTML/Actuator/index.html#reactor

Also, here is where I posted a thread where Nikkei mentions their earnings increased because of Nintendo: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1411333

And Alps Electric earnings results for the quarter they put up on July 27th, they mention sales of their HAPTIC products grew significantly: http://www.alps.com/pdf/ir/disclosure/2018apx1_e.pdf

As a bonus, here the guy that did the teardown put up how to connect the HD Rumble to your PC: http://kako.com/blog/?p=24418

I draw attention to one of their products:

http://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/HTML/Actuator/index.html

HAPTIC Reactor Vibrational Feedback Device

The HAPTIC Reactor Hybrid Tough Type is a vibrational feedback device with two resonant modes of low (160Hz) and high (320Hz) frequencies.
Designed for controllers of game consoles, these two modes can be combined to create more complex and diverse vibration patterns.
Vibration force is large3G at 160Hzand response is fast.
The product brings together original Alps technology in such fields as precision processing, magnetic design and electrical design.

Now I post two articles from 4Gamer using Google translate, the first is an article from an event at CEATEC 2016:

http://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999902/20161005087/

" Haptic reactor this device, referred to as", by utilizing the resonance of given a feeling that can not be represented in magnitude just vibration to the user.

　The demonstration that was in the booth had two kinds of resonance modes, which made it possible to experience the feeling that large and small balls bounced by creating multiple feelings by overlapping frequencies.

Since the haptic reactor is a small device, it can be installed in existing game pads. Of course, because the software side needs to be handled, it is not OK with that, but if you make it, it is clear that the illustration with a game pad as an example is also drawn on the explanation panel as well I understood well that I was aiming.

The second is when the Joy-Cons were tried out this weekend:

http://www.4gamer.net/games/990/G999026/20170114010/

Although the function of the game pad vibrates now is a natural function, the vibration function of the switch has become able to express more detailed, Nintendo expresses "expressing tactile sensation no longer than vibration" ing. When Joy-Con is regarded as "glass with ice", he says, "When you drink a drink there, the ice and ice collide and the liquid fills the glass".

What came to my mind following this explanation is the Alpine Electric "haptic reactor".
As introduced in the CEATEC 2016 report of 4 Gamer, the Alps Electric was doing some demonstrations, one of which was exactly what Nintendo introduced as an example of HD vibration of Joy - Con, It was a pouring demonstration.

The haptic reactor itself is a vibration generating device, and is a so-called linear motor system which generates longitudinal vibration. As a vibration generation device, it has a relatively high frequency, it is possible to vibrate up to 1 kHz, and it is a major feature that vibration representation like combining multiple frequencies with one device can be performed.
For example, in order to perform vibration expression such that vibration of 160 Hz and 320 Hz occurs at the same time, in order to mount with a rotary motor with a weight (weight), a plurality of rotary motor oscillators with different weight sizes are used There is a need. Controllers for Xbox One were capable of vibrating different frequencies, but it was exactly this implementation.
On that point, if it is a haptic reactor, one vibration generating device can manipulate vibration of multiple frequencies. It is epochal in that respect.

By the way, Alps Electric is famous for its deep relationship with Nintendo, and it is known as a vibrating element supplier since the era of Nintendo 64 's "vibration pack" in terms of game controller. As I was wondering at CEATEC 2016 's exhibition, I was exhibiting extensively with space and as one of my applications, I was wondering, but perhaps the identity of HD vibration at Joy - Con is ......?

And in the article above, there is a reference that Alps Electric worked with Nintendo on the N64 Rumble Pak. I couldn't find any other source but I did find that Alps Electric did work with Nintendo on the Nintendo 64DD.

This is all speculation but, the reporter in these articles did use a product belonging to Alps Electric that produced properties similar to the Switch's HD Rumble.

I don't know if what the Switch has is advanced/customised compared to the Haptic Reactor, the Haptic Reactor was shown off at CEATEC 2016 in October going by the date of the first 4Gamer article.

Considering I can't find out any other info regarding the HD Rumble, the only other way to see if it matches the design of the Haptic Reactor would be to do a tear down when the Switch launches.

Edit: Go to post #3 of this thread. Nintendo licensed Immersion's TouchSense technology although this seems to look like a suite of software. I could not find if Immersion helped Nintendo design the hardware of the HD Rumble seeing as I can't find any hardware products on Immersion's webpage.

Edit 2: Post #9, Joy-Cons have been torn open. Check for more details.

Oregano · Jan 15, 2017

I think I read that Nintendo licensed patents held by Immersion(the guys who sued Sony last gen).

ggx2ac · Jan 15, 2017

Oregano said:
I think I read that Nintendo licensed patents held by Immersion(the guys who sued Sony last gen).

I see. I'll just take a look at what their TouchSense Technology includes since I found that statement.

Immersion and Nintendo Enter into Agreement to Bring Immersion's TouchSense Technology to the Nintendo Switch System

SAN JOSE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Immersion Corp. (NASDAQ:IMMR), the leading developer and licensor of touch feedback technology, today announced that it has signed a multi-year agreement with Nintendo to allow Immersion to adapt its TouchSense® technology to the new Nintendo SwitchTM system. As part of the agreement, Nintendo receives a license to Immersion's patent portfolio.

Once it is adapted to the Nintendo Switch system, game developers will be able to use Immersion's TouchSense software suite to design games for the Nintendo Switch system. Immersion's TouchSense software will help developers provide immersive touch-based gaming controls to players around the world.

Game developers have long known that adding the sense of touch to games heightens the experience and keeps players engaged. Recent research shows that utilizing haptics technology in the gaming experience increases satisfaction and enjoyment during gameplay. With the Nintendo Switch system, game developers can now leverage the sense of touch, providing game players an incredible tactile experience that isn't currently available on any other game system.

"We are thrilled about the opportunity to work with Nintendo to bring Immersion's TouchSense technology to their customers," said Vic Viegas, CEO of Immersion. "Nintendo sets the bar with their gaming systems, and adding advanced touch effects will give them an additional edge in delivering an incredible gaming experience to their customers."

http://ir.immersion.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=1007907

ggx2ac · Jan 15, 2017

Oregano said:
I think I read that Nintendo licensed patents held by Immersion(the guys who sued Sony last gen).

Reading the press release from Immersion makes it sound like Nintendo licensed software from Immersion.

I was looking to find actual hardware products from Immersion but couldn't find any.

So either, Nintendo licensed TouchSense and got assistance from Immersion to design the hardware for the HD Rumble or, Nintendo used a different company to produce the hardware for the HD Rumble which was why I thought it was Alps Electric.

I can't be too certain on the latter, so I guess the former was probably likely.

kami_sama · Jan 15, 2017

I didn't know alps were still in business.
I only knew them due to their mechanical switches.

ggx2ac · Jan 15, 2017

kami_sama said:
I didn't know alps were still in business.
I only knew them due to their mechanical switches.

Yes, they still make sensors and switches etc.

I posted an article a couple of months back where they are releasing in 2017 a haptics device targeted towards VR because it can simulate touch with regards to feeling something soft or hard.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1318966

netBuff · Jan 15, 2017

kami_sama said:
I didn't know alps were still in business.
I only knew them due to their mechanical switches.

Alps touchpads are pretty common in laptops. Together with Elan and Synaptics.

show me your skeleton · Jan 15, 2017

i'm assuming it's something similar to apple's haptic feedback system, which is great but i've yet to see any fun uses for it.

ggx2ac · Mar 1, 2017

Bump. Reposting here.

Skittzo0413 said:
Someone finally opened up a Joycon for those interested:

https://twitter.com/linkees/status/836579448518557698

Thanks.

Finally.

The metal part behind the white cover definitely looks like the HD Rumble.

It's just too bad that I still can't prove yet where it's from, especially Alps Electric.

A reminder that this is what the Haptic Reactor from Alps Electric looks like:

These are its Dimensions (W×D×H) 9×10×22.6mm

http://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/HTML/Actuator/index.html

If you zoom in on the blue Joy-Con, you'll find similar grooves behind the white cover like the concept picture.

If only the HD Rumble was pulled out and measured and looked at, it would make things easier to identify it.

A reminder that the Joy-Cons have the dimensions: 102mm x 35.9mm x 28.4mm

But it doesn't state on the Nintendo site which is Width, Depth, Length. But it is big enough to fit the Haptic Reactor mentioned if it was using that.

Risette · Mar 1, 2017

netBuff said:
Alps touchpads are pretty common in laptops. Together with Elan and Synaptics.

They also make the analog sticks in pretty much every game controller.

It wouldn't surprise me if they made the HD rumble too.

forknknife · Mar 1, 2017

Holy crap. I thought HD rumble would require actuators throughout the joycon and not be concentrated in such a small unit!

HD rumble, how do they work?

ggx2ac · Mar 1, 2017

bytesized said:
Holy crap. I thought HD rumble would require actuators throughout the joycon and not be concentrated in such a small unit!

HD rumble, how do they work?

I haven't proved it, yet.

If that white cover on the metal block could be removed and just have the metal block measured, then it might prove the HD Rumble is the Haptic Reactor from Alps Electric.

Liabe Brave · Mar 1, 2017

bytesized said:
Holy crap. I thought HD rumble would require actuators throughout the joycon and not be concentrated in such a small unit!

HD rumble, how do they work?

Easy, magnets.

No one can explain how magnets work, though.

Cuburt · Mar 1, 2017

If that white box is the HD Rumble, I'm even more impressed by how the tech works. I've heard multiple people that played 1 2 switch that assumed that the HD Rumble ran throughout the entire joycon and pretty much everyone described the sensation in Milk and Count Balls as moving through the controller.

Makes me wonder how the do that effect. Maybe it's similar to how Nintendo has the surround sound effect on their handheld.

ggx2ac · Mar 1, 2017

Cuburt said:
If that white box is the HD Rumble, I'm even more impressed by how the tech works. I've heard multiple people that played 1 2 switch that assumed that the HD Rumble ran throughout the entire joycon and pretty much everyone described the sensation in Milk and Count Balls as moving through the controller.

Makes me wonder how the do that effect. Maybe it's similar to how Nintendo has the surround sound effect on their handheld.

It's explained in the OP of the product description of the Haptic Reactor.

The HAPTIC Reactor Hybrid Tough Type is a vibrational feedback device with two resonant modes of low (160Hz) and high (320Hz) frequencies.

Designed for controllers of game consoles, these two modes can be combined to create more complex and diverse vibration patterns.
Vibration force is large3G at 160Hzand response is fast.

The product brings together original Alps technology in such fields as precision processing, magnetic design and electrical design.

LordOfChaos · Mar 1, 2017

bytesized said:
Holy crap. I thought HD rumble would require actuators throughout the joycon and not be concentrated in such a small unit!

HD rumble, how do they work?

Similar placement and size as the linear actuator (Taptic Engine, HD Rumble, both linear actuators) in the iPhone 7, which also now has a similar API you can tap into to have different feels.

Cuburt · Mar 2, 2017

ggx2ac said:
It's explained in the OP of the product description of the Haptic Reactor.

I get that part. I've read some about how linear resonant actuators work in a general sense, I mean I don't get how the the precise vibrations can be used in a way to fool the brain to think it's coming from different parts of the controller like people have said in their impressions. That's why I mentioned the Surround Sound in the 3DS since I wondered if this is done by sending out the frequencies (because sounds are just vibrations) in such a way as to create the illusion that the vibrations are coming from different parts of the controller.

ggx2ac · Mar 2, 2017

Cuburt said:
I get that part. I've read some about how linear resonant actuators work in a general sense, I mean I don't get how the the precise vibrations can be used in a way to fool the brain to think it's coming from different parts of the controller like people have said in their impressions. That's why I mentioned the Surround Sound in the 3DS since I wondered if this is done by sending out the frequencies (because sounds are just vibrations) in such a way as to create the illusion that the vibrations are coming from different parts of the controller.

I see now, I understand how the physics work for this but, I can't explain the Haptics.

That's because Haptics is like a combination of physiology, physics and computational science.

The physics of the waves generated by the LRA, the physiology of your body sending signals to your brain through touch and, the software engineered to get the whole system working accurately for Haptic feedback.

ggx2ac · Mar 20, 2017

Bump again.

There were teardowns for the Switch Pro Controller a while back which I didn't notice until now but I still haven't found the measurements for the Linear Resonant Actuators to find out if it comes from Alps Electric's Haptic Reactor.

The above pic comes from this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DdplDFK4Pac

The two grey bars in the handles are the LRAs. It is similar to this pic of the Haptic Reactor where they would be placed in the handles.

Although the placement is similar to the controller in the Haptic Reactor picture here, it still doesn't explain anything yet until I can get measurements for the LRAs to compare to the Haptic Reactor which is: Dimensions (W×D×H) 9×10×22.6mm

And would look like this on one side:

ggx2ac · May 3, 2017

Not the best of bumps since I haven't opened up a Joy-Con and measured the dimensions of the HD Rumble aka Linear Resonant Actuator.

Alps Electric updated the product page of the Haptic Reactor so now it gives you an idea of what's happening inside it considering some people here asked how it works.

http://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/HTML/Actuator/index.html

The HAPTIC Reactor Hybrid Tough Type is a vibrational feedback device with two axes of vibrational freedom.
Compared to existing single-axis vibrational devices, which vibrate only in a monotonous fashion, this product has high vibrational freedom, enabling very realistic recreation of sensations even with complex waveforms.
And because there are two resonance points, touch sensations can be felt from a wide range of frequencies.

And here's a wiki article for describing a linear motor.

Linear motors

A linear motor is functionally the same as a rotary electric motor with the rotor and stator circular magnetic field components laid out in a straight line. Where a rotary motor would spin around and re-use the same magnetic pole faces again, the magnetic field structures of a linear motor are physically repeated across the length of the actuator.

Since the motor moves in a linear fashion, no lead screw is needed to convert rotary motion to linear. While high capacity is possible, the material and/or motor limitations on most designs are surpassed relatively quickly due to a reliance solely on magnetic attraction and repulsion forces. Most linear motors have a low load capacity compared to other types of linear actuators. Linear motors have an advantage in outdoor or dirty environments in that the two halves do not need to contact each other, and so the electromagnetic drive coils can be waterproofed and sealed against moisture and corrosion, allowing for a very long service life.

ggx2ac · Aug 2, 2017

Finally, someone got a good image of the HD Rumble in their teardown of the Switch.

From this blog: http://kako.com/blog/?p=24289

Here is the teardown image of the HD Rumble:

Here is the image of Alps Electric Haptic Reactor in a drawing of the product from their site: http://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/HTML/Actuator/index.html#reactor

Also, here is where I posted a thread where Nikkei mentions Alps Electric earnings increased because of Nintendo: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1411333

And Alps Electric earnings results for the quarter they put up on July 27th, they mention sales of their HAPTIC products grew significantly: http://www.alps.com/pdf/ir/disclosure/2018apx1_e.pdf

As a bonus, here the guy that did the teardown put up how to connect the HD Rumble to your PC: http://kako.com/blog/?p=24418

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