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Engadget: Nintendo faces lawsuit over the Switch's detachable controllers

G

ggx2ac

Member
Link: https://www.engadget.com/2017/08/11/nintendo-faces-lawsuit-over-switch-controllers/

Accessory maker Gamevice believes Nintendo violated a patent for concepts used in the Wikipad.

The Nintendo Switch certainly isn't the first gaming tablet, but is it directly riffing on others' ideas? Gamevice thinks so. The accessory maker is suing Nintendo for allegedly violating a patent for concepts used in the Wikipad, its gaming-oriented Android slate, as well as its namesake add-on controllers for phones and tablets. According to the suit, the Switch and its removable Joy-Con controllers are too close to Gamevice's vision of a combination of detachable game controller and a device with a "flexible bridge section." Not surprisingly, the lawsuit calls for both damages and a ban on Switch sales.
Click to expand...

The Wikipad never did great in sales as a product as it was later dropped for other add-ons for phones and tablets.

In some ways, the lawsuit is an epilogue to a long-running story. The Wikipad team started out with grand plans for tablet gaming in 2012, when it promised elaborate features as glasses-free 3D and game streaming. However, it didn't work out that way: delays and a rethink prompted a change in design, and while the Wikipad did receive some acclaim, Gamevice eventually dropped it in favor of its add-ons for phones and tablets. Although Nintendo's Switch clearly has some differences (it's intended more as a hybrid TV and portable console, for one thing), it's effectively showing what could have been if the Wikipad had taken off.
Click to expand...

Here's a random video of the Wikipad which shows how it's a tablet that slides into a controller shell: https://youtu.be/DJMTJnoVNvI

Really? That? Did Gamevice not see the Aikun Morphus X300 which we knew about back in the NX days? https://youtu.be/sr8SbLgHkzI

Edit:

The Complaint link below shows what Gamevice claims Nintendo is violating.

Cert.in.Death said:
Patent 9126119

Complaint - GameVice v. Nintendo
Click to expand...

Thank you Cert.in.Death for the summary:

Cert.in.Death said:
Patent 9126119

Complaint - GameVice v. Nintendo

Summary:

Nintendo has infringed on the claims of the '119 Patent, specifically Claim 1 and its pertinent subclaims, listed fully below:

A combination comprising:
  • a computing device, the computing device providing a plurality of sides, each of the plurality of sides are disposed between an electronic display screen of the computing device and a back of the computing device;
  • a communication port interacting with the computing device, the communication port providing a communication link and a pair of confinement structures, the pair of confinement structures adjacent to and confining the computing device on at least two opposing sides of the plurality of sides of the computing device;
  • an input device attached to and in electronic communication with the communication port, the input device providing a pair of control modules, the pair of control modules providing input module apertures, each input module aperture secures an instructional input device, wherein said input module apertures are adjacent each of the at least two opposing sides of the plurality of sides of the computing device, and wherein the input device is a separate and distinct structure from the communication port, forming no structural portion of the communication port; and
  • a structural bridge securing the pair of confinement structures one to the other, in which each of the pair of control modules provide an attachment structure cooperating with the communication port, each attachment structure secures the input device to the communication port, and in which the structural bridge comprising:
  • a conduit between the pair of control modules; and a fastening mechanism cooperating with the pair of confinement structures, the fastening mechanism secures the pair of confinement structures one to the other.

Gamevice is seeking a permanent injunction barring sale of the Nintendo Switch (which, obviously, will be overridden by a Nintendo settlement payout) plus damages, attorneys fees, court costs, etc. (standard fare).
Click to expand...
 
L

Luigiv

Member
Well it's like they say; If you can't develop a successful product yourself, sue someone else who did.

Because that always works out./s
 
D

Doorman

Member
If nothing else, I find it a bit ironic and funny that the company suing over possible infringement is for a product as unbelievably-creatively named as "Wikipad."

Way to be original and blaze your own trail with that one, guys.
edit: Hahaha the guy in the video even likens it to the Wii U gamepad, and it definitely shares a lot of that design aesthetic, aside from the screen being pulled out.
 
J

Jumpman23

Member
I'd actually never heard of this thing before this. Similar in concept but the Joycon's are a far more evolved concept IMO.
 
W

Wadiwasi

Banned
Doorman said:
If nothing else, I find it a bit ironic and funny that the company suing over possible infringement is for a product as unbelievably-creatively named as "Wikipad."

Way to be original and blaze your own trail with that one, guys.
Click to expand...


Seriously, everything seems to be a "wiki-something" these days.
 
T

TheGreatMightyPoo

Banned
tenor.gif
 
D

Deleted member 465307

Unconfirmed Member
This headline and case remind me of the Wii era. I would say that this is how you know Nintendo is successful these days, but I think Wii U faced similar lawsuits.
 
Zambayoshi

Zambayoshi

Member
Fishing for a settlement, obviously.

I doubt they'd launch a case which had ABSOLUTELY no merit, but you'd have to see the actual patents and the complaint to know what their chances are, and on the surface, they don't look good...
 
Cert.in.Death

Cert.in.Death

Member
Patent 9126119

Complaint - GameVice v. Nintendo

Summary:

Nintendo has infringed on the claims of the '119 Patent, specifically Claim 1 and its pertinent subclaims, listed fully below:

A combination comprising:
  • a computing device, the computing device providing a plurality of sides, each of the plurality of sides are disposed between an electronic display screen of the computing device and a back of the computing device;
  • a communication port interacting with the computing device, the communication port providing a communication link and a pair of confinement structures, the pair of confinement structures adjacent to and confining the computing device on at least two opposing sides of the plurality of sides of the computing device;
  • an input device attached to and in electronic communication with the communication port, the input device providing a pair of control modules, the pair of control modules providing input module apertures, each input module aperture secures an instructional input device, wherein said input module apertures are adjacent each of the at least two opposing sides of the plurality of sides of the computing device, and wherein the input device is a separate and distinct structure from the communication port, forming no structural portion of the communication port; and
  • a structural bridge securing the pair of confinement structures one to the other, in which each of the pair of control modules provide an attachment structure cooperating with the communication port, each attachment structure secures the input device to the communication port, and in which the structural bridge comprising:
  • a conduit between the pair of control modules; and a fastening mechanism cooperating with the pair of confinement structures, the fastening mechanism secures the pair of confinement structures one to the other.

Gamevice is seeking a permanent injunction barring sale of the Nintendo Switch (which, obviously, will be overridden by a Nintendo settlement payout) plus damages, attorneys fees, court costs, etc. (standard fare).
 
H

Hero of Time

Member
It's almost like tradition at this point. Seems like since the Wii, Nintendo gets sued for every piece of new hardware they release.
 
Cert.in.Death

Cert.in.Death

Member
ggx2ac said:
In the complaint link, Gamevice's claim of Nintendo Switch having a structural bridge like that of Gamevice's controller shell sounds like bullshit.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that they included photographs of the device and how they believe it to infringe - using photos in a complaint is atypical. I'm not a patent attorney and have never attempted to draft claims, but the structural bridge language does seem to me to be an obfuscated way of describing something within existing prior art. But I'll let NOA's counsel take it from here; claim interpretation is the real heart of patent cases.
 
Smiles and Cries

Smiles and Cries

Member
every generation, Nintendo needs to stop creating new things


they want a ban on Switch sales lulz

I hope gamers never support this company again
 
H

Halfmunch

Member
Lawsuits like this are so annoying, shouldn't Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft sue each other over basic controller design?!

lol 😂
 
G

ggx2ac

Member
Cert.in.Death said:
It's interesting that they included photographs of the device and how they believe it to infringe - using photos in a complaint is atypical. I'm not a patent attorney and have never attempted to draft claims, but the structural bridge language does seem to me to be an obfuscated way of describing something within existing prior art. But I'll let NOA's counsel take it from here; claim interpretation is the real heart of patent cases.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

Their claims seem muddy because they used photos of the Switch to base their claims off their patent but didn't use pictures of their own product or the patent with a structural bridge to compare to the Switch to show how it is violating Gamevice's patent.

That's why I'm finding their claim about the structural bridge to be deceiving.
 
D

digdug2k

Member
I have to think Nintendo will just show a document with this type of design from the early 90's and destroy these guy's entire patent portfolio in one swoop. They're going to walk out of this with nothing.
 
M

Madao

Member
obviously this lawsuit only exists because the Switch is sucessful.

how many companies tried to sue Nintendo for anything Wii U related?
 
S

Sparrowhawk

Member
SporeCrawler said:
i dont know, the company probably isnt doing that well and a royalty on switch can bring handsome profits
Click to expand...

But on the flipside, this could completely destroy them. I just feel like they've made a terrible mistake.
Edit: But then again, I literally haven't heard of them until this thread, so maybe any publicity is good publicity?
 
ReyVGM

ReyVGM

Member
ggx2ac said:
They don't have the IR pointer though, that was what got Phillips the win.

Phillips can't sue over Joy-Cons that are using Gyros and motion sensors. Lots of products use that.
Click to expand...

The wiimote had IR POINTERS? It is my understanding that the wiimote had a sensor, the pointing was aactually done by the 'sensor' bar (it's not really a sensor).

Also, doesn't the right joycon have an IR pointer in the bottom?
 
T

thefro

Member
Sounds like these guys copied their patent from the Wii U gamepad prototype

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/nintendo-land/0/0

Shimamura Right. The next makeshift thing we made for Wii U GamePad concept—a second prototype—is this.

DvFrVmK.jpg


Iwata Behold the original form of the Wii U GamePad! (laughs)

Shimamura It's very high-tech—a monitor and controllers stuck together by double-sided tape. (laughs)

Iwata I remember that you made a lot of prototype software with this.

Shimamura Yeah. If we made a list, I think there'd be about 30.

Eguchi We used this prototype and two Wii consoles to run simulations for Wii U. EAD isn't a hardware department, but a "handicraft team" knowledgeable about hardware makes stuff like this.

Iwata Making this prototype led to Nintendo Land, so the development period for Nintendo Land was quite long.

Shimamura Yes, it was.
Click to expand...

Actually, seriously they're going to win this in court by reading Iwata Asks, lol
 
V

Velocity:Design:Comfort

Banned
Is there not a picture of a Wii U early dev kit, like 2010 or 2011, where they had Wii motes mounted to a tablet (and were, I'd assume, removeable)? And that became the Gamepad?

Edit: beaten. Picture a few posts up.
 
G

ggx2ac

Member
ReyVGM said:
The wiimote had IR POINTERS? It is my understanding that the wiimote had a sensor, the pointing was aactually done by the 'sensor' bar (it's not really a sensor).

Also, doesn't the right joycon have an IR pointer in the bottom?
Click to expand...

The right Joy-Con uses an IR Camera (like MS Kinect) because it can detect shapes like your hand doing Rock, Scissors, Paper.

That's something the Wii Remote can't even do, and the Switch doesn't even come with a sensor bar so I don't see how the Joy-Cons are exactly like Wii remotes.
 
ReyVGM

ReyVGM

Member
ggx2ac said:
The right Joy-Con uses an IR Camera (like MS Kinect) because it can detect shapes like your hand doing Rock, Scissors, Paper.

That's something the Wii Remote can't even do, and the Switch doesn't even come with a sensor bar so I don't see how the Joy-Cons are exactly like Wii remotes.
Click to expand...

It is the same, or a more advanced version of it at least. Regular wiimote needed the sensor bar because it lacked a gyroscope. After Motion plus, it didn't really need the sensor bar anymore, although you were still forced to use it on the wii menu.
 
G

ggx2ac

Member
ReyVGM said:
It is the same, or a more advanced version of it at least. Regular wiimote needed the sensor bar because it lacked a gyroscope. After Motion plus, ot didn't really need the sensor bar anymore, although you were still forced to use it on the wii menu.
Click to expand...

Okay, so the Joy-Cons are a more advanced version of the Wii remote, that is true.

However, I am pointing out how the IR sensor in the Wii Remote is the reason that Phillips won their case. I don't think Nintendo will bring back something they'd have to pay royalties to Phillips for.

The Super FX chip is an example of that where Nintendo didn't release any SNES games on the Virtual Console that had ran on that chip. Until now, with the release of the SNES Mini Classic and that's because someone pointed out that the patent for the Super FX chip had expired last year which meant Nintendo wouldn't have to be paying royalties to the owners of that patent.

Can Phillips claim royalties for the Joy-Cons? I don't think so. Unlike the sensor on the Wii Remote, the IR Camera on the right Joy-Con has a short working range, that's why I've seen uses where detecting mouth movements in that 1-2 Switch game didn't work properly.

So, 1) The Joy-Con's IR Camera doesn't point naturally to the TV, it points towards your stomach, and 2) The IR Camera has a shorter working range compared to the Wii Remote which would explain why we haven't seen like World of Goo use that which instead opted for gyro controls.

Since the right Joy-Con hasn't been shown to be able to behave like a Wii Remote regarding its IR capabilities, I can't see Phillips claiming royalties or suing Nintendo again over the same patent Phillips had.
 
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