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Interview with Dean Dodrill (Dust: An Elysian Tail); responds to furry accusations

R

Rei_Toei

Fclvat sbe Pnanqn, ru?
One of my colleagues had an interview with Dean Dodrill. You can read it here, but it's in Dutch so the majority of GAF won't be able to read it. Some tidbits:

- Expected to publish second half of 2010
- No Multiplayer planned
- Emphasis on combat with RPG influences, platforming, mini-games such as fishing
- Would love to work on Jazz Jackrabbit again if Epic's interested (seriously, Epic, get this dude back on board for that)
- thinks 'genre fatigue' (mentions most third-person shooters look the same to him) as a factor in platformers becoming popular again

With regard to Destructoid's 'Odin Sphere for furries' blurb:

The whole 'furry' thing is pretty interesting. I'm obviously a fan of
anthropomorphic artwork, but that's been a staple of animation for a
century. Being a student of animation, it's natural to try to humanize
anything, even inanimate objects. And for the film, I wanted to have
character designs that could emote, yet be simple enough to create in a
timely fashion. Animals were a perfect fit.

Unfortunately, at some point in the last decade or so, this whole 'furry'
thing popped up. Suddenly a minority of people started dressing up as
animals, and the media picked up on it. And with the hivemind nature of the
internet, anything featuring anthropomorphic animals was now deemed 'furry'
and detestable.

To be honest, it doesn't bother me, but I'm still a little surprised that
professional media still label a product with that name. It's as if they
forgot that a large percentage of video games star animals as key
characters.

So in the end, I'm fine if someone doesn't like my designs. I know a ton of
people who hate anime, so you can't please everyone. But I kind of wish
there wasn't this knee-jerk reaction sort of thing.
Click to expand...

If you're not familiar with the game: trailer, official website.
 
O

obonicus

Member
Furry and anthropomorphic are the same thing. Furries don't necessarily have to dress up in suits, but that's not really the accusation. They just like 'animal-headed people'. Sometimes too much.
 
L

Lijik

Member
Rei_Toei said:
- Would love to work on Jazz Jackrabbit again if Epic's interested (seriously, Epic, get this dude back on board for that)
Click to expand...

Dean is absolutely fantastic and I can't wait for Dust, but if a Jazz Jackrabbit sequel were to occur I'd much rather have Nick Stadler be in charge of the art and animation.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
obonicus said:
Furry and anthropomorphic are the same thing. Furries don't necessarily have to dress up in suits, but that's not really the accusation. They just like 'animal-headed people'. Sometimes too much.
Click to expand...

Uh, no. A clock can be anthropomorphic, but that doesn't have anything to do with furries.
 
D

Dali

Member
I think the "furry" accusation is more because of the way the characters look more than the fact that the game simply features anthropormorphic animals. It's hard to explain but you have simple anthropormorphic representations like Mickey Mouse and then you have really creepy 'a little too much human mixed in' representations. I think the character design in Dust is closer to the latter.

Segata Sanshiro said:
who
Click to expand...
If you don't know what Dust is then you need to hit youtube and educate yourself. The guy posts here in the XNA thread from time to time.
 
S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
Dali said:
I think the "furry" accusation is more because of the way the characters look more than the fact that the game simply features anthropormorphic animals. It's hard to explain but you have simple anthropormorphic representations like Mickey Mouse and then you have really creepy 'a little too much human mixed in' representations. I think the character design in Dust is closer to the latter.


If you don't know what Dust is then you need to hit youtube and educate yourself. The guy posts here in the XNA thread from time to time.
Click to expand...
Oh, XNA. Don't take it the wrong way, but unless it ends up on the next Xbox or something, I probably won't play it. I'm not buying another 360 and I'm done with the merry-go-round of getting back half-cooked units from MS's fucking morons in repair.
 
S

SecretBonusPoint

Banned
Dali said:
I think the "furry" accusation is more because of the way the characters look more than the fact that they are simply anthropormorhpic animals. It's hard to explain but you have simple anthropormorphic representations like Mickey Mouse and then you have really creepy 'a little too much human mixed in' representations. I think the character design in Dust is closer to the latter.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is the case. "Furry" is when it crosses from cute looking/stylised animal character to having clearly defined tits and so forth. Theres also a very specific way in which "furry" artwork tends to be design with snouts and so forth drawn in a specific way. Dust will be a great game no doubt, but its art is from that same side of the coin. Yes its not used in sexual fetish, but it looks just close enough that the linkage can't be too surprising.

As further examples of this weird element to define, Sonic the Hedgehog is a cartoon animal, the humanoid evolutions of Digimon are that furry stuff. Starfox borders on it as well, (Crystal crosses that border) but has a unique enough art-style to just skip by. Just as all anime isn't 'Moe', all cartoon animals are not 'furry'. Examples of the same species, fox:

2hoy6g4.png

Furry


mw3bqc.jpg

Cartoon Animal

Its a confusing matter, clearly undefined a lot of the time, but its definitely something thats a product of the style of artwork (and particularly the proportions), not the content a lot of the time.
 
D

Dali

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
Oh, XNA. Don't take it the wrong way, but unless it ends up on the next Xbox or something, I probably won't play it. I'm not buying another 360 and I'm done with the merry-go-round of getting back half-cooked units from MS's fucking morons in repair.
Click to expand...
Bu-bu-but... it looks so cool.
 
S

Syril

Member
So are these XNA games 360-only now? I used to find PC versions of a bunch of them, but I haven't come across any in a while.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Syril said:
So are these XNA games 360-only now? I used to find PC versions of a bunch of them, but I haven't come across any in a while.
Click to expand...

XNA is just a toolkit. You can use it to make a PC game, or a 360 game, or a Zune game. You can publish or make available for download PC games using XNA... but the centralized XNA Indie Games marketplace is on 360, and realistically almost everyone coming into the program is designing stuff for the 360.
 
J

jaypah

Member
what he should have said was nothing. people on the internet screaming "furry!" at everything are as childish and stupid as kids screaming "gay!" at everything. grow the fuck up.
 
B

Binabik15

Member
But I kind of wish
there wasn't this knee-jerk reaction sort of thing.
Click to expand...


It´s NeoGAF the internet, dude.

The art in that trailer is incredible in the gameplay, not really a fan of the character portraits, though. Damn those big monster from 2:03 is awesome.
 
S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
jaypah said:
what he should have said was nothing. people on the internet screaming "furry!" at everything are as childish and stupid as kids screaming "gay!" at everything. grow the fuck up.
Click to expand...
Spoken like a probable furry.
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
Reminds me of when the Mr. Fox stills and trailer came out. People on GAF were stating: "furries...obviously furries" and I wanted to make a list of them and track them down, ala Jay and Silent Bob.
 
O

obonicus

Member
Alucrid said:
Uh, no. A clock can be anthropomorphic, but that doesn't have anything to do with furries.
Click to expand...

Well, I meant in context of animals, but according to 'postfurries' you don't even have to be an animal.
 
O

obonicus

Member
SecretBonusPoint said:
Yeah this is the case. "Furry" is when it crosses from cute looking/stylised animal character to having clearly defined tits and so forth. Theres also a very specific way in which "furry" artwork tends to be design with snouts and so forth drawn in a specific way. Dust will be a great game no doubt, but its art is from that same side of the coin. Yes its not used in sexual fetish, but it looks just close enough that the linkage can't be too surprising.

As further examples of this weird element to define, Sonic the Hedgehog is a cartoon animal, the humanoid evolutions of Digimon are that furry stuff. Starfox borders on it as well, (Crystal crosses that border) but has a unique enough art-style to just skip by. Just as all anime isn't 'Moe', all cartoon animals are not 'furry'. Examples of the same species, fox:
Click to expand...

There's a LOT of overlap between sonic fandom and furry fandom or digimon fandom -- there's no particular style to furriness any more than there is a particular style to 'anime'. A lot of furry fans fixate on stuff like Bambi, for instance, and Minerva Mink from Animaniacs is a different sort of favorite.
 
K

Kafel

Banned
He's a gaffer, he'll probably come and say hi.

When can we expect a new trailer ? (the running animation has supposedly changed).
 
ShinNL

ShinNL

Member
SecretBonusPoint said:
Yeah this is the case. "Furry" is when it crosses from cute looking/stylised animal character to having clearly defined tits and so forth. Theres also a very specific way in which "furry" artwork tends to be design with snouts and so forth drawn in a specific way. Dust will be a great game no doubt, but its art is from that same side of the coin. Yes its not used in sexual fetish, but it looks just close enough that the linkage can't be too surprising.

As further examples of this weird element to define, Sonic the Hedgehog is a cartoon animal, the humanoid evolutions of Digimon are that furry stuff. Starfox borders on it as well, (Crystal crosses that border) but has a unique enough art-style to just skip by. Just as all anime isn't 'Moe', all cartoon animals are not 'furry'. Examples of the same species, fox:

2hoy6g4.png

Furry


mw3bqc.jpg

Cartoon Animal

Its a confusing matter, clearly undefined a lot of the time, but its definitely something thats a product of the style of artwork (and particularly the proportions), not the content a lot of the time.
Click to expand...
Rouge.png
 
T

tokkun

Member
Dali said:
I think the "furry" accusation is more because of the way the characters look more than the fact that the game simply features anthropormorphic animals.
Click to expand...

Also, having an an animal-related pun in your title.
 
S

SecretBonusPoint

Banned
Soneet said:
Rouge.png
Click to expand...

Yeah thats when the line starts to blur, but the fact is shes still a short cartoon character in a very specific art style. Its when you take a humans proportions and directly apply them to an animal you get the creepy furry effect.
 
ShinNL

ShinNL

Member
SecretBonusPoint said:
Yeah thats when the line starts to blur, but the fact is shes still a short cartoon character in a very specific art style. Its when you take a humans proportions and directly apply them to an animal you get the creepy furry effect.
Click to expand...
Rouge2.jpg
 
O

obonicus

Member
SecretBonusPoint said:
Yeah almost there, dunno what exactly youre trying to prove by now photoshopping it but well done?
Click to expand...

That's just rationalization, so that people can like things that fit all the 'furry' criteria but not consider themselves furry. Same as Dean Dodrill's doing in the interview.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Rei_Toei said:
>>"Bawwww, I'm not a furry!" Said the dev from a no-name XNA game.<<
Click to expand...

Topic title said:
Interview with Dean Dodrill (Dust: An Elysian Tail); responds to furry accusations
Click to expand...

>>Using "Tail" instead of "Tale"<<
Click to expand...

*facepalm.jpg*

Furry detected.

Fuck, beaten. But I don't care. You don't want to be called a furry for your art, cool story bro. Next time, don't use an animal related pun in addition to the art-style that makes it strongly furry.

Forgetting who right now said:
>>Miles "Tails" Prower<<
Click to expand...

Yes, he isn't furry per say. But the Sonic fanbase, like Huelen, makes him furry. :(
 
S

Son of Godzilla

Banned
It is interesting that actual media sites are going after this guy for being a furry but don't feel compelled to attack Nomura or Kojimo or Blezinski for their obvious fetishtastic work.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
TheSeks said:
*facepalm.jpg*

Furry detected.

Fuck, beaten. But I don't care. You don't want to be called a furry for your art, cool story bro. Next time, don't use an animal related pun in addition to the art-style that makes it strongly furry.
(
Click to expand...

This just in: Don Bluth was a furry because he called his movie An American TAIL instead of An American TALE.

That's just the kind of preposterous furry paranoia the guy is talking about. "Animal puns" have been used in stuff featuring cartoon animals FOR A CENTURY. You can't throw a brick in a bookstore without hitting a children's book full of talking animals and a hundred animal puns, including in the title of the book.

Another problem people with furry paranoia face is that just because of the fact that fans in the authentic furry fandom are putting art out with a certain stylization, it means over time the stylization will spread, just like some elements of manga and anime spread through American comics.

So unfortunately, it's only going to get worse if you're determined to ferret out* out all the furry evil you can.




*Oh noes animal pun!
 
S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
Son of Godzilla said:
It is interesting that actual media sites are going after this guy for being a furry but don't feel compelled to attack Nomura or Kojimo or Blezinski for their obvious fetishtastic work.
Click to expand...
Furries are the second-most hated fetishists on the planet right now, and the first-most hated don't parade their fetish around.
 
ShinNL

ShinNL

Member
SecretBonusPoint said:
Yeah almost there, dunno what exactly youre trying to prove by now photoshopping it but well done?
Click to expand...
Original
Rouge.png


Head only edit
Rouge2.jpg


Face & Body edit
Rouge3.jpg


And there, the last one. So, now which one do you call furry again? Please note that I have drawn nothing and only pushed around with the proportions.

Because to me your definition of cartoon animal simply seems to be "chibi furry".
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Son of Godzilla said:
It is interesting that actual media sites are going after this guy for being a furry but don't feel compelled to attack Nomura or Kojimo or Blezinski for their obvious fetishtastic work.
Click to expand...

The furry tag is an automatic easy jab on the Internet. It was such a popular trend five or six years ago that it shows how old you are by Internet standards if your first reaction is to single out the furry fanboy over ever other kind of fanboy.

Also, interesting point in general: much of the art and animation in this game, Dust, does not really resemble average "furry" art so much as Japanese kimono art, aka, the Japanese style of animal headed characters that is a lot older than Internet furry fandom. Because the kimono characters were /supposed/ to look very humanoid, they actually happen to look a lot like American furry art by convergent evolution. (Though typically have tell-tail* Japanese elements.)

Ironically, when I first saw Dust, I didn't think it was American furry art. I thought it was by some Japanese or Korean guy doing anthro animal art in the style common for those regions. Kind of like the popular Monster fighting game on PC. Go figure.

Of course, there are kimono / "beast" fans in Japan who are somewhat the equivalent of American furries. Some even build costumes. Though from what I've seen, they're typically higher quality (ha?). So don't worry, there are grounds for Americans to be afraid of Japanese furries too, carry on guys.


*animal pun!
 
T

toneroni

Member
He posts on gaf occasionally. I think the game is great and would love to help get it to other platforms and consoles.
 
S

SecretBonusPoint

Banned
Soneet, dude, if you read my post rather than vehemently trying to argue some bizarre point that completely photoshopping a characters proportions makes them creepy, you'd read that I said its the furry animals with the dead on human proportions that define whats so creepy about furry stuff. Just as the inverse is true with anime when all the characters look like 8 year old girls.
 
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