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Phil Spencer responds to ‘Forza 5’ and ‘Ryse’ microtransaction DLC controversy

P

Poetic.Injustice

Member
And if fans don't like a micropayment? Don't buy it. Spencer said that he's making sure that all of the Xbox One game include feedback mechanisms that allow Microsoft to closely track what gamers buy. "I want to be able to learn from what we put in," he said. "So let's make sure we are crafting the game and the analytics so we can see what the consumers—the gamers—like and don't—if you assume buying habits are a reflection of what people like. So that we can craft the experience better for the gamer."
Click to expand...

Spencer is aware of a need to have some limits, but doesn't yet draw many lines. "It's easy to say something like, 'I'll never allow somebody to buy the win of the game, I won't let them buy victory,' but that's kind of a trite answer. I'd say, 'Yeah, I guess I have that line, that [we wouldn't have] "Pay five bucks and get 1000 achievements" or something stupid like that.' I'm always pushing against that. But, in reality, that's not what the gamers are looking for. They're usually looking for customization and their gameplay style opening up."
Click to expand...

From the Kotaku interview.
 
S

Spiegel

Member
Yeah, I guess I have that line, that [we wouldn't have] "Pay five bucks and get 1000 achievements" or something stupid like that.' I'm always pushing against that.
Click to expand...

Really?

I would prefer that kind of microtransactions to removing content from the game.
 
D

Doran902

Member
buying habits arent always a measure of what people like, he should have worded it more like buying habits are a measure of what we can get away with
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Customization stuff is fine for microtransactions as long as it's purely cosmetic but making key content of the game difficult to reach without paynent in a full priced game is overwhelmingly frustrating.
 
B

Bumhead

Banned
I have no problem with the "don't like it, don't buy it" mantra in certain circumstances.

You can absolutely pack your game with micro transactions for me as long as I can play, finish and enjoy the game myself without it having ANY negative impact on my experience if I do choose not to.

I was under the assumption that the problem with Forza 5 is that it DID negatively alter the structure of the non-paying game?
 
UberTag

UberTag

Member
And how is Microsoft tracking the folks who won't buy the game simply because the microtransaction element exists in the first place?
And is there an option to turn off any & all prompts by the game to purchase consumable DLC - in which case the gamer needs to ignore it repeatedly instead of just once?
And will these games auto-adjust the grinding needed to unlock content because of the presence of microtransactions or is every Microsoft game now a 100+ hour slog for completionists?

Frankly, I'd be happy if they just sold hats. People like hats.
 
Q

Qassim

Member
"Don't buy them" in this regard sort of misses the point. If they're in there, how do we know the game wasn't designed with the motivation to push players towards them?
 
S

SwiftDeath

Member
And if fans don't like a micropayment? Don't buy it. Spencer said that he's making sure that all of the Xbox One game include feedback mechanisms that allow Microsoft to closely track what gamers buy. "I want to be able to learn from what we put in," he said. "So let's make sure we are crafting the game and the analytics so we can see what the consumers—the gamers—like and don't—if you assume buying habits are a reflection of what people like. So that we can craft the experience better for the gamer."
Click to expand...

So then Phil you won't possibly allow a small segment of consumers who are willing to spend out the ass for certain content affect a game at all for the rest of us?

Because that's my worry and you fail to address that
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
The problem as I see it isn't that anyone is compelled to buy something they don't like, but the fear that the games will be designed to encourage "pay-your-way" transactions. I got to the point in Plants vs. Zombies 2, for example, where I didn't know if the developers were making things tedious to make me pay to skip things or if that was just the way they wanted to design the game, but either way, I wasn't having fun. It was hard to get the nagging feeling out of my head, though.

You could promise all day and night that the game isn't being designed one way, but there's no way for me to know if you're telling the truth, especially if there are tedious parts of your game. It'd give me peace of mind, at least, for it not to be in there at all.
 
G

Goldmund

Member
Qassim said:
"Don't buy them" in this regard sort of misses the point. If they're in there, how do we know the game wasn't designed with the motivation to push players towards them?
Click to expand...
Easy. If they're in there, we know the game was designed with the motivation to push players towards them.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Bumhead said:
I have no problem with the "don't like it, don't buy it" mantra in certain circumstances.

You can absolutely pack your game with micro transactions for me as long as I can play, finish and enjoy the game myself without it having ANY negative impact on my experience if I do choose not to.

I was under the assumption that the problem with Forza 5 is that it DID negatively alter the structure of the non-paying game?
Click to expand...
Exactly. He knows that, though. This is just typical PR deflection/spin. Its their job.
 
S

Slair

Member
"if you don't want microtransactions don't pay for them... but it's probably the only way you'll get access to the stuff you've already payed for."
 
F

fallagin

Member
Micro transactions like this can fundamentally change a game for the worse, and especially in a 60$ game that is unnacceptable.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Xer0 said:
How about: I give you $60, you give me a full game and stop asking me for more money.
Click to expand...
I'd like this.

Or, short of that, release a Collector's Edition with a master code that entitles you to ALL of the game's content, both at release and until the end of the game's support. No upsells. Just one flat rate price for all the content.

That'd be a simple, open and upfront way to communicate whats being sold and at what prices.
 
UberTag

UberTag

Member
Seanspeed said:
Exactly. He knows that, though. This is just typical PR deflection/spin. Its their job.
Click to expand...
Perhaps he could still have a job if the company wasn't going full-stop with introducing manipulative and dishonest business practices designed to exploit their customer base.

If those practices didn't exist, Phil wouldn't need to spin.

If you really MUST get $100 out of everyone that buys a game instead of just $60, how about you let people buy games digitally 2-4 weeks earlier online for some extortionate price when the game is still in a half-broken state anyhow? Rope in those idiots and get your extra money out of them that way instead of turning every game into Dead Space 3.
 
R

RocBase

Member
RoboPlato said:
Customization stuff is fine for microtransactions as long as it's purely cosmetic but making key content of the game difficult to reach without paynent in a full priced game is overwhelmingly frustrating.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The root of the complaints seem missed by Phil.
 
S

Spiegel

Member
noobasuar said:
You would also have to be insane to purchase achievement points. Like your life can't get much sadder than that.
Click to expand...

People are insane. They buy hats, colors and silly cards that serve no purpose in games.

I meant to say: let people spend money on those things.before cutting content and selling it again as DLC.
 
D

Doran902

Member
Spiegel said:
People are insane. They buy hats, colors and silly cards that serve no pourpose in games.

I meant to say: let people spend money on those things.before cutting content and selling it again as DLC.
Click to expand...

I sold gold paint for 88 usd and an unusual fearless badger for 78 dollars in dota 2.

I can confirm, people are insane.
 
H

Haines

Banned
Heretic said:
I wish we could go back to the old days...
Click to expand...

Buy games that dont do this and you will. The new Zelda and Mario are completely amazing and dont do this.

I used to buy games day 1. Than they decided day 1 dlc was cool, so i vote with my wallet. I will wait til the game comes with the dlc, and is even cheaper to show i dont support that, but i will still buy other games like Killer Instinct that lets me pay 20 bucks for the game, or a game like pikmin that even gives some free dlc, and the dlc didnt come til much after launch
 
A

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Phoenician_Viking said:
It reminds me of if you want an offline console buy a 360. MS does not learn anything.
Click to expand...

YEP

All these little manipulative, exploitative business practices completely put me off from ever buying a Bone far more than all the other horrendous shit they tried to pull in the last few months.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
Gamers are looking for "customization and their gameplay style opening up"? The fuck does that mean?

I'll tell you what it doesn't mean: they don't want to have to pay anything extra past the fucking $60 they initially spend on a game. This is bullshit.
 
M

Moostache

Member
DLC has been around in earnest for about 5-6 years already (truly came on the scene I mean not that it was not available in some form for longer)...but the pricing and the offerings just keep getting worse.

Problem is that when the response is "well, so don't buy it then..." it's pretty clear that the executive decision on DLC is already done and won't be changing any time soon...might as well come out and say "BEND OVER CHUMPS!!!"
 
O

Ol No Bones

Banned
Skins and apparel and stupid stuff is great but actual game content should be completely available and relatively easily obtained with the purchase of the game.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
Yeah the whole 'well see what consumers buy' approach doesn't work when you start a new gen with your most high profile exclusive launch title stuffed to the gills with microtransactions and mega grind being the alternative
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
This would be less of a problem if people didn't buy this shit.

It's an unfortunate (on multiple dimensions) reality that some people buy $60 games to play with a certain subset of their favourite cars, etc. in the little time they have for gaming. That's the reality veiled under "customizable gameplay experiences."

EDIT: I cosign the cheat codes comment.
 
F

Fox_Mulder

Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
next step: making the microtransactions necessary

hell no spencer, microtransactions suck
 
Teletraan1

Teletraan1

Banned
I wont buy any of this. If that means I end up playing nothing then I will go outside or something. The problem is that just not buying something doesn't give the publisher you didn't buy from any idea why you did not buy the product. Then if the sales go down they will keep layering this crap on to make up the difference. The days of being able to play a game you bought are coming to an end. You Horse Armor fuckers ruined my hobby.
 
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