Support NeoGAF

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Here are a few snippets of some sweet little lies:

“when you're on a planet, you can see as far as the curvature of that planet. If you walked for years, you could walk all the way around it, arriving back exactly where you started. Our day to night cycle is happening because the planet is rotating on its axis as it spins around the sun. There is real physics to that.

Creatures on a distant planet that nobody has ever visited are drinking from a watering hole or falling asleep because they’re following a formula that determines where they go and what they do; we just don’t run the formula for a place until we get there.”

“Certain animals have an affinity for some objects over others which is part of giving them personality and individual style. They have friends and best friends too. It's just a label on a bit of code—but another creature of the same type nearby is potentially their friend. They ask their friends telepathically where they’re going so they can coordinate.”

Artistic director Grant Duncan recalled roaming an alien planet once shooting at birds out of boredom. “I hit one and it fell into the ocean,” he recalled. “It was floating there on the waves when suddenly, a shark came up and ate it. The first time it happened, it totally blew me away.”

“When you die, you regenerate in the same location,” Murray explained, “but you do lose a great deal of things. We wanted the loss to be meaningful—for you to know that if you make a decision, it has significance.”

I guess sometimes some animals of the same type will kinda-ish walk around in a group.
But not often.

That is basically this.
There is no actual proper AI that has a want/need system or something like that in this.

It's all in the game, you can't see it because Sean Murray's mind is blown

I'm just speechless right now... I really don't know what else to say. I can't even think of anything clever. I...

 

[Brashnir]

I jump back in my ship. The sun has set on this planet as it has in reality. Iv'e been playing all day.

"Should I continue the search for another player," I ask myself.

Not today. Sean would want me to sleep.

I pause the game but do not turn it off. I want to be able to return immediately when I awaken.

I go into my bedroom and open the closet door. I have emptied it out to create a shrine.

I kneel in front of the statue of Sean Murray and light a candle.

I whisper:

"Please Sean, guide me to another player so that I know you're not just a lying sack of shit. Embarrass the NeoGAF with your honesty."

I sit and pray for another few minutes. Then, I put out the candle and go to sleep.

I dream of Sean's barefoot interview.

You are doing fantastic work in this thread. You should know that.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

How is a shared world procedurally generated?

It's procedurally generated using a seed that is the same for every player. Ergo, even though the world gets generated by the game, every person's copy of the game generates the same world.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

 

[Makai]

Who is guy #3?

 

[Klyka]

I'm just speechless right now... I really don't know what else to say. I can't even think of anything clever. I...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv1CkZXBROc

 

[MissCauthon]

He still hasnt answered about the MP!!??? Wow

 

[Brashnir]

Who is guy #3?

Todd Howard. Bethesda's promiser-in-chief.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's procedurally generated using a seed that is the same for every player. Ergo, even though the world gets generated by the game, every person's copy of the game generates the same world.

I think people are getting 'randomly generated' and 'procedurally generated' confused. There are slight cross parallels there, but in the grand scheme, major differences as well.

 

[CharminUltra]

Here are a few snippets of some sweet little lies:

“when you're on a planet, you can see as far as the curvature of that planet. If you walked for years, you could walk all the way around it, arriving back exactly where you started. Our day to night cycle is happening because the planet is rotating on its axis as it spins around the sun. There is real physics to that.

Creatures on a distant planet that nobody has ever visited are drinking from a watering hole or falling asleep because they’re following a formula that determines where they go and what they do; we just don’t run the formula for a place until we get there.”

“Certain animals have an affinity for some objects over others which is part of giving them personality and individual style. They have friends and best friends too. It's just a label on a bit of code—but another creature of the same type nearby is potentially their friend. They ask their friends telepathically where they’re going so they can coordinate.”

Artistic director Grant Duncan recalled roaming an alien planet once shooting at birds out of boredom. “I hit one and it fell into the ocean,” he recalled. “It was floating there on the waves when suddenly, a shark came up and ate it. The first time it happened, it totally blew me away.”

“When you die, you regenerate in the same location,” Murray explained, “but you do lose a great deal of things. We wanted the loss to be meaningful—for you to know that if you make a decision, it has significance.”

Someone should make this game.

 

[GankzyMcfly]

It doesn't change the dynamic of the game whatsoever. It's still a 99.9% single player game.

But that doesn't mean it's not bullshit that they categorically stated there's some sort of multiplayer function to completely fly in the face of the statement.

Several people in this thread have mentioned how the idea of running into another player was one of the driving features of the game for them regardless of how insignifant that chance was. The possibility of running into another player might make the repatitive gameplay more exciting and keep players invested in the game longer for example...it could mean the differenece between a 30hr save file and a 80 hr save file... You would know these things if you read even a 3rd of this thread. When a developer says you can play with friends, people are going to expect to be able to play with friends. When he teases that the only way to see yourself is if another player sees you, people are going to be excited about and anticipating that moment...without the function many players may now lack the motivation to keep playing once they feel theyve experienced the majority of the content.

 

[Psychological Intellect]

someone hit me with a recap

 

[Klyka]

someone hit me with a recap

It's all a dream/10

 

[Inviusx]

Someone should make this game.

Honestly, the closest thing is Dwarf Fortress.

 

[SomTervo]

if you're the boss 100% yes? are you actually serious?

Yes? We don't know what's on their plate right now.

As in, they are probably dealing with far more serious things than 1-2 thousand users flipping out of a minor part of their experience, while hundreds of thousands are buying and playing the game.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I think people are getting 'randomly generated' and 'procedurally generated' confused. There are slight cross parallels there, but in the grand scheme, major differences as well.

I mean, the game could be "randomly generated" using a seed too. The key is that the seed is where all the random numbers are taken from, so everyone has the same random numbers.

I think the distinction between random and procedural is kind of dumb to be honest. I guess procedural sounds better, but obviously no game is going to generate a world in a COMPLETELY random way, it's always going to go through some kind of hand-created algorithm.

 

[SomTervo]

Several people in this thread have mentioned how the idea of running into another player was one of the driving features of the game .

Yeah, and that's not what the game's about. So, see you later.

Is this a joke or what?

This guy was tweeting constantly each day right until the "can we see other players?" question blew up. Then sudden radio silence.

You've got to be naive to no end if you believe he has no time to respond.

Fucking lol. This particular post from you really reads like a fanboy parody post. "They are just humans" .... lmao

Alright then.

Good night.

 

[SomTervo]

Then you were blessed with an incredibly rare sight because in all my hours and hours of stream watching and in me playing, I have never seen that.

I've seen it too. Saw it this evening in fact.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

someone hit me with a recap

Pages 87-94 have everything you need to know.

 

[Klyka]

I've seen it too. Saw it this evening in fact.

The chance of two players seeing the same thing in one day is so slim yadda yadda

but good to know it exists

 

[AcademicSaucer]

someone hit me with a recap

Video recap

https://my.mixtape.moe/vxhnde.webm

 

[mike6467]

Man, I'm dealing with paint and a trackpad right now, or I'd be Crackachu-ing the hell out of things. Donald Trump and Laura Ingraham Sieg Heiling at the RNC? More like Murray and Crackachu....MUGA!! This picture of Will Wright holding a sim? More like Crackachu holding a mini Sean. That picture of Bill proclaiming his innocence with Hillary in the background? You get the idea...

TLDR: Need more Crackachu.

 

[K' Dash]

This is such a stupidly bold lie if it is one.

The only explanation I can think of is if he thought they could implement the feature before the game launched and failed. If that's the case he went full blown Molynuex, what a shame.

That's most likely what happened.

 

[Makai]

I think people are getting 'randomly generated' and 'procedurally generated' confused. There are slight cross parallels there, but in the grand scheme, major differences as well.

Technically speaking, they're exactly the same.

 

[runnin_blue]

I jump back in my ship. The sun has set on this planet as it has in reality. Iv'e been playing all day.

"Should I continue the search for another player," I ask myself.

Not today. Sean would want me to sleep.

I pause the game but do not turn it off. I want to be able to return immediately when I awaken.

I go into my bedroom and open the closet door. I have emptied it out to create a shrine.

I kneel in front of the statue of Sean Murray and light a candle.

I whisper:

"Please Sean, guide me to another player so that I know you're not just a lying sack of shit. Embarrass the NeoGAF with your honesty."

I sit and pray for another few minutes. Then, I put out the candle and go to sleep.

I dream of Sean's barefoot interview.

This...this is fucking amazing.

 

[Alebrije]

someone hit me with a recap

 

[Aguero9320]

I jump back in my ship. The sun has set on this planet as it has in reality. Iv'e been playing all day.

"Should I continue the search for another player," I ask myself.

Not today. Sean would want me to sleep.

I pause the game but do not turn it off. I want to be able to return immediately when I awaken.

I go into my bedroom and open the closet door. I have emptied it out to create a shrine.

I kneel in front of the statue of Sean Murray and light a candle.

I whisper:

"Please Sean, guide me to another player so that I know you're not just a lying sack of shit. Embarrass the NeoGAF with your honesty."

I sit and pray for another few minutes. Then, I put out the candle and go to sleep.

I dream of Sean's barefoot interview.

Pure gold.

 

[gtabmx]

I mean, the game could be "randomly generated" using a seed too. The key is that the seed is where all the random numbers are taken from, so everyone has the same random numbers.

I think the distinction between random and procedural is kind of dumb to be honest. I guess procedural sounds better, but obviously no game is going to generate a world in a COMPLETELY random way, it's always going to go through some kind of hand-created algorithm.

Procedurally generated means there is a known procedure in which things are generated. The inputs of the procedure aren't defined as random or whatnot. Randomly means one of the inputs to the algorithm is random.

The correct word they should have used is deterministic. "We have no idea what the outputs are, but we can guarantee everyone will arrive to the same set of outputs for all possible inputs, which we know how to obtain, since there is a protocol." In this game's case, it looks like the inputs are x, y, z, the galaxy id, and the star system id.

 

[UncleSporky]

The more I read about this game, the more confused I get about how it even makes sense to begin with.

Requires some knowledge of how programming works, how computers work etc.

How is a shared world procedurally generated?

"Shared world" meaning everyone experiences the same world/universe/whatever. For example in Super Mario Bros. 1, every player experienced the same worlds in the same order. And while Mario's levels were created by hand rather than by computer, due to being compressed you could say a procedure was followed to load them while playing. "When you encounter a 3, place a 3x1 row of bricks. When you encounter a 6, place a 4 block wide pit." etc. NMS is sort of like that on a massive scale ("When you encounter a 7, place a mountain with this shape in this place," sort of), but the numbers being output are in a sequence defined by complicated math functions.

Did it exist before anybody played it?

Not sure what this means. The developers fed their math functions a number, a seed, and said "ok let's fly some ships around and take a look at this particular galaxy and the way it's generating based on the way our formulas are set up. Yeah it turned out pretty well."

Who's doing the generation? The server? Does that mean it requires a persistent internet connection to play? I thought PS Plus wasn't required? What happens if the server/your internet goes down?

No, it's all being generated by the computer/console. "The player is currently at X 4534523443 Y 24524234234 Z 23434232342, facing this direction, what should they be seeing?" "Well when we feed those numbers into the planet generating formula there would be an ice world here and a fire world here, and when they get closer we'll figure out what the surface would be shaped like, again based on terrain-generating formulas."

And once the planets are generated, are they persistent? Can you revisit a planet you visited in a previous game?

They are generated on the fly when you are nearby. If you make modifications to them, some data is saved locally so if you revisit you can see the changes you made. I don't think anyone knows how far you need to go before it starts forgetting those changes, or how much space they take up etc.

Think of it like math. When you do 4 x 4, the result is always 16. The fact that you did 4 x 4 doesn't mean 16 now physically exists somewhere and has to be stored and kept track of; it's just 16. You can go do all kinds of other math and every time you come back to do 4 x 4 again, it's still 16.

When a player mines a hole into a rock it's like subtracting 1 from that 16 and the game writes "every time the player does 4 x 4, remember they also subtracted 1 from it" on your hard drive.

If it is persistent, how is there a concrete count on the number of planets that can exist?

Well it's only persistent on a per-player basis, but the reason there's a concrete number of planets is because 18 quintillion is the maximum magnitude of a 64 bit number.

Is there a fixed layout of this universe that hundreds of thousands of people are exploring? Can somebody theoretically map the known parts of the universe and have it be consistent across all players?

Yes and yes.

If the goal of the game is to get to the center of something, doesn't that something have to be bounded? How do you define the center of something that has no bound or is constantly changing? What happens if you go in the opposite direction of the "center"?

I assume the galaxy map would show you that it's sort of sphere-shaped with a dot in your center that's the goal. I'd guess you can't go the opposite direction because you have to jump to actual systems with stars and can't just jump to nothingness beyond?

 

[GankzyMcfly]

Yeah, and that's not what the game's about. So, see you later.



Alright then.

Good night.

How about you address the rest of my post before dismissing me, you sound significantly invested...you cant be Sean because youre alot more clear about the situation...

 

[Mad Season]

Yes? We don't know what's on their plate right now.

As in, they are probably dealing with far more serious things than 1-2 thousand users flipping out of a minor part of their experience, while hundreds of thousands are buying and playing the game.

LOL. No excuse. Time for them to stop the bleeding

 

[Menitta]

Wait, Box Art controversy? What?

 

[Jacksinthe]

You haven't done enough reading.

The universe's map is generated using a seed which is inserted into the procedural engine. Everyone plays from the same seed - the same massive map.

Then the universe is simply static and everyone sees the same stuff with no real "discovery".

Worlds are procedurally generated from that seed but this is a simple method to just ship a much smaller package as the game is generated on the fly.

I was expecting legit procedural where everyone contributes to building the galaxy and details of those worlds sent to a server. At the very least each solar system would have its own seed to replicate the generation after it was found, but as it was found by a player first, that player would create the seed. The game would check if a seed existed in that location and if not, you are the seed and the first to explore it.

This would require a persistent connection to pull off and some timely checks but it's possible.

As it stands using the same seed ensures everyone has the same map. Worlds may still be generated but they will be the same for everyone. Not sure I would have taken that approach but I've only dabbled in mild procedural generation so there's that. I'm sure it's quite a bit more complex but the process is fairly straightforward. There's a million different ways to procedurally generate things all of which are neither wrong or right, only fitting for your needs.

I would have preferred no global seed. Their approach is one I would not use. Really takes the magic straight out when you boil it down.

Hmmmm.

 

[DOWN]

I still don't totally know what the box art means

 

[Speely]

I am depressed. Nothing is cool anymore. I've been procedurally enervated.

 

[D4Danger]

I still don't totally know what the box art means

somewhere between the box being printed and release they had to change the PEGI rating but they also removed the icon that means the game has multiplayer.

the implication is they removed multiplayer features very late without actually telling anyone (and they still haven't said what was removed (if anything) hence this thread)

people are now picking apart their PR and trying to work out why some features that were talked about several times don't actually appear to be in the game.

 

[Mad Season]

Has someone edited this yet to write "no multi-player" yet?


https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/751141699880095745?s=09

 

[Yabberwocky]

I jump back in my ship. The sun has set on this planet as it has in reality. Iv'e been playing all day.

"Should I continue the search for another player," I ask myself.

Not today. Sean would want me to sleep.

I pause the game but do not turn it off. I want to be able to return immediately when I awaken.

I go into my bedroom and open the closet door. I have emptied it out to create a shrine.

I kneel in front of the statue of Sean Murray and light a candle.

I whisper:

"Please Sean, guide me to another player so that I know you're not just a lying sack of shit. Embarrass the NeoGAF with your honesty."

I sit and pray for another few minutes. Then, I put out the candle and go to sleep.

I dream of Sean's barefoot interview.

The sound I made at 'Sean would want me to sleep' was extremely undignified and a little bit inhuman. Amazing.

 

[runnin_blue]

How about you address the rest of my post before dismissing me, you sound significantly invested...you cant be Sean because youre alot more clear about the situation...

He's been defending NMS fervently for awhile now. Was all throughout the leak thread (him and a few others). Definitely too invested in the game because he will not entertain any criticism or negativity about the game whatsoever. Just what I have observed.

 

[DOWN]

Is there a thread of things that were stated as facts about the game that we now know aren't facts? Because it actual seems like a bunch of things at this point

bUT don't call him Molyneaux whoah

 

[Inviusx]

Is there a thread of things that were stated as facts about the game that we now know aren't facts? Because it actual seems like a bunch of things at this point

bUT don't call him Molyneaux whoah

That's what this thread is becoming. We started touching on other lies about 15 pages back.

 

[TimeEffect]

That's what this thread is becoming. We started touching on other lies about 15 pages back.

Do we have a comprehensive list?

 

[Conkerkid11]

Here are a few snippets of some sweet little lies:

“when you're on a planet, you can see as far as the curvature of that planet. If you walked for years, you could walk all the way around it, arriving back exactly where you started. Our day to night cycle is happening because the planet is rotating on its axis as it spins around the sun. There is real physics to that.

Creatures on a distant planet that nobody has ever visited are drinking from a watering hole or falling asleep because they’re following a formula that determines where they go and what they do; we just don’t run the formula for a place until we get there.”

“Certain animals have an affinity for some objects over others which is part of giving them personality and individual style. They have friends and best friends too. It's just a label on a bit of code—but another creature of the same type nearby is potentially their friend. They ask their friends telepathically where they’re going so they can coordinate.”

Artistic director Grant Duncan recalled roaming an alien planet once shooting at birds out of boredom. “I hit one and it fell into the ocean,” he recalled. “It was floating there on the waves when suddenly, a shark came up and ate it. The first time it happened, it totally blew me away.”

“When you die, you regenerate in the same location,” Murray explained, “but you do lose a great deal of things. We wanted the loss to be meaningful—for you to know that if you make a decision, it has significance.”

Wow, that sounds like it would be an impressive game.

 

[Makai]

I can actually understand him realizing he had to reign in his ambition. Oh, turns out we can't let you extinct a species. But damn, you can't possibly forget to clarify that online multiplayer wasn't going to make it.

 

[Mad Season]

So I see Sean tweeted 2 hours ago, but it was about pc.

 

[depths20XX]

For those still wondering about procedural generation.

Just imagine each planet as a new map in Binding of Isaac. Each player will experience the universe as the same as long as you type in the string of QXDE43 or whatever at the start. Which you're all entering into the same string when you start the game.

Except in this they made a quadrillion of those maps because they had no fun gameplay elements.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Procedurally generated means there is a known procedure in which things are generated. The inputs of the procedure aren't defined as random or whatnot. Randomly means one of the inputs to the algorithm is random.

The correct word they should have used is deterministic. "We have no idea what the outputs are, but we can guarantee everyone will arrive to the same set of outputs for all possible inputs, which we know how to obtain, since there is a protocol." In this game's case, it looks like the inputs are x, y, z, the galaxy id, and the star system id.

So are Minecraft worlds "randomly generated" or "procedurally generated"? I've heard them referred to as both, but by your definition they would probably be random. What about if you put in a specific seed as opposed to having the game pick one at random? Does it suddenly become procedural?

 

[beef3483]

I jump back in my ship. The sun has set on this planet as it has in reality. Iv'e been playing all day.

"Should I continue the search for another player," I ask myself.

Not today. Sean would want me to sleep.

I pause the game but do not turn it off. I want to be able to return immediately when I awaken.

I go into my bedroom and open the closet door. I have emptied it out to create a shrine.

I kneel in front of the statue of Sean Murray and light a candle.

I whisper:

"Please Sean, guide me to another player so that I know you're not just a lying sack of shit. Embarrass the NeoGAF with your honesty."

I sit and pray for another few minutes. Then, I put out the candle and go to sleep.

I dream of Sean's barefoot interview.

Trying too hard. Seriously, the time you spent thinking this up and typing it...better to let it go.

Edit: But then again, I read some other posts in this thread, it fits right in.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Guys, a comprehensive list totally isn't needed Mmkay lets stay focused...

 

[depths20XX]

So are Minecraft worlds "randomly generated" or "procedurally generated"? I've heard them referred to as both, but by your definition they would probably be random. What about if you put in a specific seed as opposed to having the game pick one at random? Does it suddenly become procedural?

Procedural is random. They just follow a certain set of rules to make more sense. It's like putting together a puzzle that all fits but you didn't put those pieces in place yourself.