• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Addiction by Design: Casino Capitalism and a Nation of the Walking Dead

Status
Not open for further replies.

Boney

Banned
Following last week's extremely insightful video interview on casino capitalism with Professor Natasha Dow Schüll, author of " Addiction by Design: Machine Gambling in Las Vegas", Hedges expands on the mechanisms architacted by casinos and the huxleyan application of them into the political process.
Posted the full column but if you like it, click and support. Check the column here http://www.truthdig.com/report/page3/a_nation_of_the_walking_dead_20170402

Walking_Dead_590.jpg


Opioids and experiences that simulate the deadening effects of narcotics are mechanisms to keep us submissive and depoliticized. Desperate citizens in Aldous Huxley’s 1932 novel “Brave New World” ingested the pleasure drug soma to check out of reality. Our own versions of soma allow tens of millions of Americans to retreat daily into addictive mousetraps that generate a self-induced autism.

The United States consumes 80 percent of opioids used worldwide, and more than 33,000 died in this country in 2015 from opioid overdoses. There are 300 million prescriptions written and $24 billion spent annually in the U.S. for painkillers. Americans supplement this mostly legal addiction with over $100 billion a year in illicit marijuana, cocaine, methamphetamine and heroin. And nearly 14 million U.S. adults, one in every 13, regularly abuse alcohol.

But these monetary figures are far less than what we spend on gambling. Americans in 2013 lost $119 billion gambling, with an additional $70 billion—or $300 for every adult in the country—spent on lottery tickets.

Federal and state governments, reliant on tax revenues from legal gambling and on lottery ticket sales, will do nothing to halt the expansion of the industry or the economic and psychological toll it exacts on those in financial distress. State-run lottery games had sales of $73.9 billion in 2015, according to the North American Association of State and Provincial Lotteries. This revenue is vital to budgets beset by declining incomes, deindustrialization and austerity. “State lotteries provided more revenue than state corporate-income taxes in 11 of the 43 states where they were legal, including Delaware, Rhode Island, and South Dakota,” Derek Thompson wrote in The Atlantic. “The poorest third of households buy half of all lotto tickets,” he noted. Gambling is a stealth tax on poor people hoping to beat the nearly impossible odds. Governmental income from gambling is an effort to make up for the taxes the rich and corporations no longer pay.

Slot machines and other electronic gambling devices are engineered to draw us into an Alice-in-Wonderland rabbit hole. They, like our personal computers and hand-held devices, cater to the longing to flee from the oppressive world of dead-end jobs, crippling debt and social stagnation and a dysfunctional political system. We become rats in a Skinner box, frantically pulling levers until we are addicted and finally entranced by our compulsion to achieve fleeting, intermittent and adrenaline-driven rewards. Much like what happens to people using slot machines, the pigeons or rats in Skinner’s experiments that did not know when they would get a reward, or how much they would get, became the most heavily addicted to operating the levers or pedals. Indeed, Skinner used slot machines as a metaphor for his experiments.
The engineers of America’s gambling industry are as skillful at forming addiction as the country’s top five opioid producers—Purdue Pharma, Johnson & Johnson, Insys Therapeutics, Mylan and Depomed. There are 460 commercial casinos, 486 tribal casinos, 350 card rooms, 55 racetracks and hundreds of thousands of gaming devices, many located in convenience stores, gas stations, bars, airports and even supermarkets.

The rush of anticipation, available in 20-second bursts, over hours, days, weeks and months creates an addictive psychological “zone” that the industry calls “continuous gaming productivity.” Heart rates and blood pressure rise. Time, space, the value of money and human relationships hypnotically dissolve. A state of extreme social isolation occurs.

Gambling addicts, like many addicts, are often driven to crime, bankruptcy and eventual imprisonment. Many lose everything—their marriages, their families, their jobs, their emotional health and sometimes their lives. Gambling addicts have the highest rate of suicide attempts among addicts of any kind—1 in 5, or 20 percent—according to the National Council on Problem Gambling.

Donald Trump is in large part a product of gambling culture. His career has not been about making products but about selling intangible and fleeting experiences. He preys on the desperate by offering them escapist fantasies. This world is about glitter, noise and hype—Trump called the Trump Taj Mahal, his now-closed casino, “the eighth wonder of the world.” The more money you spent, the greater your “value,” the more you were pampered, given free hotel rooms and gifts, handed passes to special “clubs” with lavish buffets. Scantily clad hostesses hovered around you serving complimentary drinks. If you spent big, you were invited to exclusive parties attended by supermodels and famous athletes. Decorated chips—some featuring a photo of Donald Trump—turned cash into a species of Monopoly money. But in the end, when you were broke, when there was no more money in your bank account and your credit cards were maxed out, you were thrown back, in even greater financial distress, into the dreary universe you tried to obliterate.

Roger Caillois, the French sociologist, wrote that the pathologies of a culture are captured in the games the culture venerates. Old forms of gambling such as blackjack and poker allowed the gambler to take risks, make decisions and even, in his or her mind, achieve a kind of individualism or heroism at the gambling table. They provided a way, it can be argued, to assert an alternative identity for a brief moment. But the newer form, machine gambling, is an erasure of the self. Slot machines, which produce 85 percent of the profits at casinos, are, as the sociologist Henry Lesieur wrote, an “addiction delivery device.” They are “electronic morphine,” “the crack cocaine of gambling.” They are not about risk or about making decisions, but about creating somnambulism, putting a player into a trancelike state that can last for hours. It is a pathway, as sociologist Natasha Dow Schüll points out, to becoming the walking dead. This yearning for a state of nonbeing is what Sigmund Freud called “the death instinct.” It is the overpowering drive by a depressed and traumatized person to seek pleasure in a self-destructive activity that ultimately kills the organism.

“It is not the chance of winning to which they become addicted,” Schüll writes in “Addiction by Design: Machine Gambling in Las Vegas,” “rather, what addicts them is the world-dissolving state of subjective suspension and affective calm they derive from machine play.”

Gamblers are closely tracked by the casino industry. The length of time gamblers spend on machines increases the profits for the casino. The science of keeping people in front of slot machines—called “time on device” within the industry—has led to the creation of ergonomic consoles, the appealing, warm screens on slot machines, seductive video graphics and surround-sound acoustics.

The industry also invests heavily in surveillance. Gamblers carry player or loyalty cards. They insert these cards into the slot machines when they play. These cards, linked to a central database, are used by the industry to build profiles of gamblers. The value and frequency of bets are captured, along with wins and losses. The industry knows when the players take breaks, where and what they eat in the casinos, what they drink and what hotel rooms they select. Slowly the traits and the habits of the gambler, triangulated with demographic data, are pieced together to allow the industry to build a personal profile. With the profile, the casino determines at what point a player will accumulate too many losses and too much pain and is about to walk away from a machine. A few moments before that pain level is reached, a hostess will magically appear with a free drink, a voucher for a meal or tickets to a show. Casinos can also use profiles to project how much a player will spend gambling during his or her lifetime.

The industry was the human laboratory for refinements now incorporated into the security and surveillance organs of the state. “Many surveillance and marketing innovations first used in casinos were only later adapted to other domains,” Schüll writes, “including airports, financial trading floors, consumer shopping malls, insurance agencies, banks, and government programs like Homeland Security.”
“They have an algorithm that senses your pain points, your sweet spots,” Schüll told me. “The zone is a term that I kept hearing over and over again as I went to gamblers’ anonymous meetings and spoke to gambling addicts. This really describes a state of flow where time, space, monetary value and other people fall away. You might say a state of flow, or the zone, sounds very different from the thrills and suspense of gambling. But what the casinos have hit upon is that [they] actually make more money when [they] design a flow space into these machines. People don’t even know that they’re losing. They just sit there. Again, it’s time on machines.”

“When you look at contemporary slot machines, they don’t operate on volatility,” she continued. “One designer of the mathematics and algorithm of these games said we want an algorithm that makes you feel like you are reclining on a couch. The curves, architecture and the softly pixelated lights, they want you to sit back and go with the flow. I just couldn’t make sense of that for the longest time in my research. Gamblers would say, ‘It’s so weird, but sometimes when I win a big jackpot I feel angry and frustrated.’ What they’re playing for is not to win, but to stay in the zone. Winning disrupts that because suddenly the machine is frozen, it’s not letting you keep going. What are you going to do with that winning anyway? You’re just going to feed it back into the machines. This is more about mood modulation. Affect modulation. Using technologies to dampen anxieties and exit the world. We don’t just see it in Las Vegas. We see it in the subways every morning. The rise of all of these screen-based technologies and the little games that we’ve all become so absorbed in. What gamblers articulate is a desire to really lose a sense of self. They lose time, space, money value, and a sense of being in the world. What is that about? What does that say? How do we diagnose that?”


“It’s the flip side to the incredible pressure, which is experienced as a burden, to self-manage, to make choices, to always be maximizing as you’re living life in this entrepreneurial mode,” she said. “We talk about this as the subjective side of the neoliberal agenda, where pressure is put on individuals to regulate themselves. In this case, they are regulating themselves, but they are regulating themselves away from that. This really is a mode of escape. It’s not action gambling. This is escape gambling. You can see it on their faces. The consequences and ethics are distasteful. It’s predatory. It’s predation on a type of escape where people are driven to exit the world. They’re not trying to win. The casinos are trying to win. They are trying to make revenue. They’re kind of in a partnership with the gamblers, but it’s a very asymmetrical partnership. The gamblers don’t want to win. They want to just keep going. Some people have likened gamblers to factory workers who are alienated by the machine. I don’t see it that way. This is more about machines designed to synchronize with what you want—in this case escape—and [to] profit from that.”

Trump understands this longing for escape and the art of creating an updated version of P.T. Barnum’s “Grand Traveling Museum, Menagerie, Caravan & Hippodrome.” Trump used his skills as a con artist to pull in hundreds of millions of dollars and then to achieve the presidency.

“People have called it a mode of ludo-capitalism,” Schüll said. “In a way, you can connect that to the ludo-politics that we see. Pleasure. To get what you want. What you want is to escape into a flow, to be taken away. We see this in the political domain a lot—in the rallies, in the surging of feelings, the distraction. If you look at the way a casino is designed, and you remember that Trump is a designer of many casinos, including his non-casino properties, they follow the same design logic of disorientation and trying to sweep people away from themselves, away from rationality, away from a position where they have clear lines of sight and can act as decision-making subjects. You see that on the floors of casinos, you see that in political rhetoric today.”

The corporate state will expand our access to a variety of opioids and numbing situations to temporarily alleviate our stress, financial dislocations, depression and anxiety. Aided by state and local governments, it will build new pleasure palaces. It will lure millions into its glittering and seductive Venus’ flytraps. It will make sure we have tempting retreats within easy reach to achieve a death-in-life experience. Much of the society will be put to sleep. Those who refuse to become zombies, who rise up to resist, who seek at all costs to remain distinct individuals, will be silenced with the corporate state’s cruder tool for submission: force.
 
”The poorest third of households buy half of all lotto tickets"

"Governmental income from gambling is an effort to make up for the taxes the rich and corporations no longer pay."

Sadness.
 
I know the state of Georgia is inching ever closer to casino legislation since some of our important education initiatives are moving toward insolvency, and the lotto alone is no longer viable. Then again, the state more or less rolled out the tax-credit-lined red carpet for the film and tech industries, and can't find money for services despite a massive swell in employment.
 
I find it interesting that slot machines are where the big money is. I know they're the most played, but I guess I thought some other game would be the big draw. Interesting to see how they design the slot games to be comforting and entrancing, then couple their design with the individual research to keep people playing.

Played about $20 worth of slots last year just to be doing something at the local Hard Rock Casino. Won about $300. Have no interest in playing the slots or doing any other gambling. Perhaps I didn't have a desire to find or otherwise be "in the zone".
 

Boney

Banned
I find it interesting that slot machines are where the big money is. I know they're the most played, but I guess I thought some other game would be the big draw. Interesting to see how they design the slot games to be comforting and entrancing, then couple their design with the individual research to keep people playing.

Played about $20 worth of slots last year just to be doing something at the local Hard Rock Casino. Won about $300. Have no interest in playing the slots or doing any other gambling. Perhaps I didn't have a desire to find or otherwise be "in the zone".
The zone is usually reserved to people that have become addicted to "gambling". Newcomers still follow the old style casino of formulating how or where to win, even if it's aimed at slot machines, since they still see value in the money spent and the thrills of risking it. But Casinos have built so many elements to entice you to come back and that's where the numbness sets in. Once they are in your vicinity and your everyday life, they take ahold of you as they are ultimate expression of a money worshipping society. Just look at how much money they generate, it's perverse.

There's still laws in place to prevent any tampering of the software and odds of winning during a session, so that's why they have these external elements in place to take control of your body.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
Already known, but disgusting nonetheless. This isn't even capitalism. There's no "capital" or "investment" here, it's literally a scam industry and a tax on stupidity. Governments have losts all interests or hopes to subside the issue given that it's essentially one of the few form of taxes that still works nowadays.

Also fuck rich people to hell and back.
 
I shake my head at people buying scratch offs and lotto tickets, anyone with a shred of logic/reasoning ability/intelligence could see the odds, they even tell you when you buy them!
 
On the topic I think the article in the OP is a bit ... extra. The whole photo of techno ape jesus being crucified is ... odd, and tying gambling culture to Trump seems forced. But, given that searching 9/11 on Truthdig.com returns an ad that Israel Perpetrated 9/11, I don't think I'm surprised.

I shake my head at people buying scratch offs and lotto tickets, anyone with a shred of logic/reasoning ability/intelligence could see the odds, they even tell you when you buy them!

You should thank them instead of shaking your head at them. Lotteries are one of the largest sources of local revenue after real estate taxes. It's very difficult for a municipality to raise taxes as it takes a lot of political capital, yet it's very easy for a municipality to introduce a new lottery and it takes relatively little political capital. In a just society we wouldn't have to have regressive revenue schemes like lotteries, but in so far as we're not a thoroughly just society, they exist and they are a huge source of local revenue.

I probably buy one lotto ticket a year, usually when the jackpot is at some enormously stupid level, and I have full understanding that I won't win, but it softens the $1 loss that a sizable portion of that dollar is financing my wife's job (a public school teacher).
 

Dynomutt

Member
This is sad. Selling hope to the poor. I would love to see a piece done one the proliferation of tithing in poor communities as well. The rise of televangelism and new "pastors" has been nut not saying it is exactly the same as gambling/lottery Bu I see alot of poor people giving money away that they really don't have. I have to stop and think why are so many churches in low income area's and is that money being re-invested in those area's as well. Apologies did not mean to derail.
 

jman2050

Member
What's sad is that you can replace every instance of casinos/slot machines with "F2P games" and you'd barely have to change anything else about the article.

Psychological control has become an industry unto itself and stuff like gambling on slot machines is not the end, it's only the beginning of it.
 
I shake my head at people buying scratch offs and lotto tickets, anyone with a shred of logic/reasoning ability/intelligence could see the odds, they even tell you when you buy them!

Do you actually think not buying those lottery tickets would allow these poorest of households to not be poor?

I'm sure many of them understand they have next to no chance of winning. I'm sure they also understand that they aren't ever going to become wealthy barring a miracle. Social mobility isn't so great right now.
 
A great example of why humans are not built on logic and reasoning which is just some extra hardware bolted on to our rather abusable motivation system. Video games, gambling, internet surfing, internet arguing, and things like tasty are all examples of addictive (drug like) behaviors. Its kinda mean to be profiting off of our intrinsic biological flaws (which are accentuated by poverty, hence the statistics) but thats just another example of how our motivation systems are whack.

People who are poor don't buy lottery tickets because they are dumb, they buy them because its a drug to them and chronic stress has worn down the parts of their brain dedicated to suppressing our less logical choices.
 
Do you actually think not buying those lottery tickets would allow these poorest of households to not be poor?

I'm sure many of them understand they have next to no chance of winning. I'm sure they also understand that they aren't ever going to become wealthy barring a miracle. Social mobility isn't so great right now.

I see people blow half their paycheck/their whole paycheck on lotto tickets on a weekly basis. If they didn't blow their money on it, they could use it on things to enrich their lives, their families, save, better themselves. It's pretty heartbreaking to be honest, I could care less about it funding local taxes either, speaking to another poster. We tax local products as well.
 

Izayoi

Banned
I shake my head at people buying scratch offs and lotto tickets, anyone with a shred of logic/reasoning ability/intelligence could see the odds, they even tell you when you buy them!
If you had the tiniest chance to escape a life of perpetual abject poverty, would you take it?

For only a dollar, they sell that dream. For many, just that distant glimmer of hope is worth it.

I see people blow half their paycheck/their whole paycheck on lotto tickets on a weekly basis. If they didn't blow their money on it, they could use it on things to enrich their lives, their families, save, better themselves. It's pretty heartbreaking to be honest, I could care less about it funding local taxes either, speaking to another poster. We tax local products as well.
I would like to see a breakdown of the statistic. I don't think that a majority of that money comes from people, as you say, spending half of their income on lottery tickets. I imagine that it is a numbers game - poor households are more likely to purchase a lottery ticket, and there are a lot more poor households than there are wealthy ones.
 
If you had the tiniest chance to escape a life of perpetual abject poverty, would you take it?

For only a dollar, they sell that dream. For many, just that distant glimmer of hope is worth it.


I would like to see a breakdown of the statistic. I don't think that a majority of that money comes from people, as you say, spending half of their income on lottery tickets. I imagine that it is a numbers game - poor households are more likely to purchase a lottery ticket, and there are a lot more poor households than there are wealthy ones.

I think it all comes down to money management skills, something that is lacking across all income levels, but especially in poorer areas. Believe me, I grew up poor, I know the temptation to satisfy a permanent problem with a temporary solution. Fast food is the same way, poor people think they are getting something cheap when cooking is a fraction of the cost.

To stay on topic, this stuff will keep happening as long as the government sanctions these things, which isn't right.
 

Boney

Banned
What's sad is that you can replace every instance of casinos/slot machines with "F2P games" and you'd barely have to change anything else about the article.

Psychological control has become an industry unto itself and stuff like gambling on slot machines is not the end, it's only the beginning of it.
In the video interview, Dow Schüll does tap a little bit into gacha games and how they operate under the same purpose.

On the topic I think the article in the OP is a bit ... extra. The whole photo of techno ape jesus being crucified is ... odd, and tying gambling culture to Trump seems forced. But, given that searching 9/11 on Truthdig.com returns an ad that Israel Perpetrated 9/11, I don't think I'm surprised.
So what do you propose? Just drop the figure on how much is spent on gambling? The picture is a representation of our own Skinner Box, of mental stimulus being manufactured in closed and isolated environments. It's extra to frame a discussion around what a doctor in cultural anthropologist teaching at MIT bases her research around. Could you be even more of a philistine if you tried?
And I don't even know from where you're deriving your 9/11 rant but good job at ass pulls.

You should thank them instead of shaking your head at them. Lotteries are one of the largest sources of local revenue after real estate taxes. It's very difficult for a municipality to raise taxes as it takes a lot of political capital, yet it's very easy for a municipality to introduce a new lottery and it takes relatively little political capital. In a just society we wouldn't have to have regressive revenue schemes like lotteries, but in so far as we're not a thoroughly just society, they exist and they are a huge source of local revenue.

I probably buy one lotto ticket a year, usually when the jackpot is at some enormously stupid level, and I have full understanding that I won't win, but it softens the $1 loss that a sizable portion of that dollar is financing my wife's job (a public school teacher).
thank them for continually charging the poorer people for most of the tax revenue? Like what are you even typing jesus.
 

You don't have to get so defensive about replies to your thread.

Clearly, I'm against lotteries as sources of revenue. "In a just society we wouldn't have to have regressive revenue schemes like lotteries, but in so far as we're not a thoroughly just society, they exist and they are a huge source of local revenue."

As for what different picture? I dunno, I'd have stock photo grandpa playing the lotto. But if techno-ape-jesus piques your curiosity then that's cool.
 
This kind of attention should be given to the mobile games industry which doesn't even pretend a prize can be won in their addict-baiting money sinks.

At least the revenue from gambling goes to education or other semi-worthy causes. F2P mobile games should have the same tax incentives.
 
Several pages of the AHCA were devoted to implementing checks to make sure poor people that win the lottery were not able to access social services. Gives you a good idea where the heads of the GOP are at with regards to exploiting the poor.
 

Dreavus

Member
Scary stuff. Makes me wonder why these players don't just buy an xbox if they don't actually care about winning, but I guess they are addicted to the whole experience of being at the casino, having a drink while you're there, etc.

That shit about building a gambler profile then interrupting people when they are are about to stop is pretty disgusting.
 
Already known, but disgusting nonetheless. This isn't even capitalism. There's no "capital" or "investment" here, it's literally a scam industry and a tax on stupidity. Governments have losts all interests or hopes to subside the issue given that it's essentially one of the few form of taxes that still works nowadays.

Also fuck rich people to hell and back.

Not sure how this isn't capitalism. There's a product being sold. Just because it's a scam doesn't mean it isn't a capitalist scheme.
 

jman2050

Member
This kind of attention should be given to the mobile games industry which doesn't even pretend a prize can be won in their addict-baiting money sinks.

At least the revenue from gambling goes to education or other semi-worthy causes. F2P mobile games should have the same tax incentives.

The scary thing is that the formation of these money sinks is instilling a terrible idea: you don't actually need to give something of value away for people to buy in. All you need to do is make the experience pleasant and that's all the reward they need.

It's as if we're seeing the lessons of the entertainment industry at large being applied to the gambling industry to create some unholy hybrid product where people spend money endlessly for nothing at all and thank the corporations for the privilege. It's less like a casino as we know it and more like an amusement park.
 
I think it all comes down to money management skills, something that is lacking across all income levels, but especially in poorer areas. Believe me, I grew up poor, I know the temptation to satisfy a permanent problem with a temporary solution. Fast food is the same way, poor people think they are getting something cheap when cooking is a fraction of the cost.

To stay on topic, this stuff will keep happening as long as the government sanctions these things, which isn't right.

Did money management skills just plummet among everyone but the top % of earners over the last few decades?
 
Not sure how this isn't capitalism. There's a product being sold. Just because it's a scam doesn't mean it isn't a capitalist scheme.

It is the absolute minimum bar for consideration as capitalism considering the product being sold is quite literally the most ephemeral and utterly unfulfilling and useless product ever peddled, not to mention its being predatory by design. The scarier thing is that this just covers the old world gambling of physical machines, digital gambling and apps which are not only tied to a single location but are literally with you every second of your day via smartphone apps are the logical evolution of the concept and are far more nefarious. Though we've had plenty of topics about whaling before.
 

Joni

Member
One thing I will always remember is the awful smell in those places. The disorientation is also something else.
 

Mathieran

Banned
What's sad is that you can replace every instance of casinos/slot machines with "F2P games" and you'd barely have to change anything else about the article.

Psychological control has become an industry unto itself and stuff like gambling on slot machines is not the end, it's only the beginning of it.

This is what I thought of as I was reading it. Or any game with micro transactions. Heck almost any RPG where you get new gear and/or level up. We don't even ask to get some paltry change out of the deal. I'm not knocking RPGs, it's my favorite genre. But we are addicted to that little bit of endorphin every time we get an upgrade.

The design philosophies seems pretty similar anyway. My RPG example might be stretching it a bit though.
 
Did money management skills just plummet among everyone but the top % of earners over the last few decades?

No, it's always been bad at the lower levels. I'm specifically speaking to the problem of scratch offs and lotto tickets though as a temporary solution to a permanent problem.
 

pantsmith

Member
This is what I thought of as I was reading it. Or any game with micro transactions. Heck almost any RPG where you get new gear and/or level up. We don't even ask to get some paltry change out of the deal. I'm not knocking RPGs, it's my favorite genre. But we are addicted to that little bit of endorphin every time we get an upgrade.

The design philosophies seems pretty similar anyway. My RPG example might be stretching it a bit though.

Being mindful of your example, I think there is some grossness to the RNG drip of loot games. But this article points to the difference between gambling where you get a feeling of roleplay and fantasy (arguably your example), and gambling where you have a wave of bleak numbness set in and you become slave to base stimulation (much closer to gotcha games, or something like Candy Crush)
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
The government doesn't represent the people. Shit like this will keep on happening till that changes.

Gotta keep the status quo though. Change is too risky for the privileged.
 
All I could think about was gatcha games reading the OP. I play one, Brave Exvius, and lord knows I'll never spend a dime on it, the design is so clearly insidious.
 
Working for a living is not a healthy lifestyle. It's not natural and it's only going to lead to worse physical and metal health conditions.
 

Syriel

Member
I shake my head at people buying scratch offs and lotto tickets, anyone with a shred of logic/reasoning ability/intelligence could see the odds, they even tell you when you buy them!

If you're not doing it compulsively, a $1 lotto ticket can provide more than $1 worth of entertainment for the week. In that sense, it is a good purchase for the occasional buyer.

If you're a compulsive gambler, dropping $100's a week, that's a bad thing.

Did money management skills just plummet among everyone but the top % of earners over the last few decades?

No. But society in general seems to have encouraged even more debt capitalism and "keeping up with the Joneses" at all costs. It was there in the 90's, but since the 00's it seems to have gone into a "you deserve to have all the things" kind of mentality.

As a culture, America could certainly do a lot better with money management education, especially around credit. Credit cards are an amazing tool, and can be awesome, but just like alcohol or gambling, they are easily abused and can become a dangerous addiction if you can't control your spending.

This is what I thought of as I was reading it. Or any game with micro transactions. Heck almost any RPG where you get new gear and/or level up. We don't even ask to get some paltry change out of the deal. I'm not knocking RPGs, it's my favorite genre. But we are addicted to that little bit of endorphin every time we get an upgrade.

The design philosophies seems pretty similar anyway. My RPG example might be stretching it a bit though.

Diablo II says "Hi!"
Don't diss on D2. Game is amazeballs. But dat loot system. Addict to da max.
 
No. But society in general seems to have encouraged even more debt capitalism and "keeping up with the Joneses" at all costs. It was there in the 90's, but since the 00's it seems to have gone into a "you deserve to have all the things" kind of mentality.

As a culture, America could certainly do a lot better with money management education, especially around credit. Credit cards are an amazing tool, and can be awesome, but just like alcohol or gambling, they are easily abused and can become a dangerous addiction if you can't control your spending.

Sure, but that's not the real reason why wealth keeps on concentrating more and more into the hands of the top 10% of earners.
 

Boney

Banned
Sure, but that's not the real reason why wealth keeps on concentrating more and more into the hands of the top 10% of earners.

Wealth isn't even generated through producing anything anymore, not even services. Today, wealth is produced by parasitically manipulating stock bubbles and nothing else. They'll leach out half of the company by bloating their value and then leaving the poor suckers behind the curve with bad stock options. It's insane really.

That's why only the richest 5% is the only one that has seen any type of economic recovery, while 95% is worse off since 2008.
 
To me, lotto and scratch are essentially a means to get taxes from the poor that they can't get through other means. They're marketed to said folks in that this could potientally be yours if you just buy a ticket.
 

pa22word

Member
State-run casinos and lotteries should be illegal.

It is by far the most disgusting way to raise tax revenue.

I mean it's the same argument you have over other vices, at the end of the day.

Okay you ban gambling and close all casinos, state run or otherwise. Guess what? people still going to be shooting craps on the sidewalk. Government is not all powerful. It is not going to break an activity that has been part of the human condition for thousands of years simply by putting blinders over its eyes at best or at worst actively wasting tax dollars trying to fight it.

Might as well take part in it and try to put some of that money to good use. I'd rather have super regulated casinos that are state run than some shady corp or some questionable dudes running cards in a basement with a baseball bat sitting in the corner of the room, personally.
 

pigeon

Banned
I mean it's the same argument you have over other vices, at the end of the day.

Okay you ban gambling and close all casinos, state run or otherwise. Guess what? people still going to be shooting craps on the sidewalk. Government is not all powerful. It is not going to break an activity that has been part of the human condition for thousands of years simply by putting blinders over its eyes at best or at worst actively wasting tax dollars trying to fight it.

Might as well take part in it and try to put some of that money to good use. I'd rather have super regulated casinos that are state run than some shady corp or some questionable dudes running cards in a basement with a baseball bat sitting in the corner of the room, personally.

This seems unfortunately true.

It's not really clear to me that people would not work to optimize gambling if it were illegal, or that it would be better for society if it were unregulated because of illegality.

A good step here would be to identify what regulations could exist to actually make gambling more healthy. For example, to speak to the F2P issue, I know from experience that there were reasons we kept the underlying reward chances hidden in gacha systems, so I like the idea of requiring specific reward odds to be listed.

Like any other vice, gambling a little bit with money you don't need is just a vice. The problem is the addictive response and the ease of repeating the loop causing you to spend money you can't afford. That's what casinos try to optimize with free buses and starter chips, food and drink, etc. That's where I would probably start thinking of how to dismantle the structure.
 
I mean it's the same argument you have over other vices, at the end of the day.

Okay you ban gambling and close all casinos, state run or otherwise. Guess what? people still going to be shooting craps on the sidewalk. Government is not all powerful. It is not going to break an activity that has been part of the human condition for thousands of years simply by putting blinders over its eyes at best or at worst actively wasting tax dollars trying to fight it.

Might as well take part in it and try to put some of that money to good use. I'd rather have super regulated casinos that are state run than some shady corp or some questionable dudes running cards in a basement with a baseball bat sitting in the corner of the room, personally.

I have no issue with PRIVATE casinos and lotteries, just ones run by state and local governments.

It's not about vices, it's about governments trying to collect more money from society's poorest and most vulnerable when they should be raising taxes on the wealthy instead.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom