Even better tl;dr explanation: "Thank you Mantle".
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Advanced DirectX12 Graphics and Performance - Discussion
- Thread starter gamechanger87
- Start date
Even better tl;dr explanation: "Thank you Mantle".
It's the same with any open platform. Unless you're coding for a single piece of locked hardware.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
The bolded portion is correct. I don't know where people get this subscription idea from. It's a nasty rumor that will take some effort for MS to squash.
It is basically the same thing they did with the 8.1 release or the heavy discount when 8 released.
gamechanger87
Member
Yup. They want to make money on the ecosystem and the W10 OS is just a means to get you in their ecosystem.
I have a feeling we will see a lot of non-gaming full windows apps showing up in the W10 store.
Journey
Banned
Right, it will encourage developers to take advantage of DX12 features knowing it will be a breeze when porting to X1. Not only will it benefit X1 by way of easy porting, but also if games are made using DX11 and are directly ported to X1 with not much optimizations, a developer may opt to run the game at 900p or less to save time and money vs coding to the metal.
DX12 will help X1 in that sense, yet somehow everyone claiming it will have 0 benefit to X1 are missing the point entirely, not everyone painstakingly recodes their engines when porting from PC, time, ability and money all factor in.
The Artisan
Member
it'll improve much upon the PC, there was a thread about how there's a 20% gpu boost, I just wish it was crystal clear what it will do for xbone.
Dictator93
Member
They have said that it increases the ease of transplanting PC games to xb1 and xb1 games to PC.
Garrett 2U
Member
It'll be interesting to see if the Xbone becomes the lead console platform for development due to the unified PC/Xbox toolset.
Makes sense to develop as a universal Win10 with DX12 game then port to other consoles.
Probably depends on install base of Windows 10
Makes sense to develop as a universal Win10 with DX12 game then port to other consoles.
Probably depends on install base of Windows 10
Yes
intheinbetween
Member
more like DX12 could be the lead for multiplatform titles
Poodlestrike
Banned
The latter.
gamechanger87
Member
Bingo. I think this will be interesting to watch. MS has already courted Unity and UE4 and are pretty much making DX12 work between PC and XB1 with little issue. The fact that Shovel Knight was ported in a day should say a lot.
Other than the diehard OGL users, it seems like DX12 makes sense as the easiest platform to lead on.
But this doesn't compute.
Going from 900p to 1080p is actually a 44% jump and not a 20% one.
You think this wouldn't have happened without mantle?
maverick40
Junior Member
As an intel engineer, reading stuff like this makes me happy!
I´m on a Phenom 2 X4 955
Still hold up real well, but being a bit of a bottleneck in some games.
gamechanger87
Member
900 to 1080 is 20 percent but not in pixels. It was just a simplistic statement that Phil made. Watch the Dx12 video I posted and towards the end they do the GPU section.
Portability between Windows 10 and Xbox One is certainly a great benefit, but as others have pointed out, Windows 10's adoption rate and the willingness/ability of developers to utilize DX12 features will have an impact on how many "DirectX12-ready" games we will see.
My question is how the PS4 plays into this and how easy it is to port from DirectX11 to DirectX12. With 20 million+ boxes out there, it's difficult for devs to ignore it.
Perhaps someone with more knowledge in the development of multiplatform releases could look into these questions:
- The PS4 allows the use of DirectX 11.2, so I imagine that there are cases where devs targeting multiplatform releases might use it as the common denominator; wouldn't this discourage developers from jumping to DX12 in the first place, along with the previously mentioned concerns?
- Does it make more sense to make the PS4 the lead platform and then port to DX12?
- Perhaps there are benefits to porting from the PS4 if its devkit already reaps the CPU-bound benefits of DX12?
That's incredible.
I can update all the computers/laptops in my house to windows 10 for free!
Wow.
Portugeezer
Member
Well because they worded it poorly, in the video in OP he makes it sound like the first year is free, i.e. then you have to pay.
I already know that is not the case, but I can see why some people would get confused.
The Artisan
Member
in other words, dx12 for xbone= crossbuy, crossplatform play?
Portugeezer
Member
Except for Halo, or Gears, or Forza, etc I would guess. Pinball though? Hell yeah crossbuy/crossplatform lol.
Angelus Errare
Banned
PS4 doesn't utilize direct X at all.
yeah but the i7 920 still stomps the 2500k overall due to hyperthreading.
The Artisan
Member
okay well epic games was part of the announcement of utilizing dx12, and that to me meant that dx12 will be used possibly for a GoW4. with that being said, will dx12 do other things for xbone? particularly in the game making process?
That does not appear to be true:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/03/sony-dives-deep-into-the-ps4s-hardware-power-controller-features-at-gdc/
Whether it's being used that often is another matter...
We may not have to (internet high five).
The 920 has to be one of the best long running gaming processors out there. We have 4 cores and 8 threads that already handle games fine. (I'm running a 920 with a GTX 980)
DX12+ would apparently help this darn CPU to just keep on trucking. I've yet to hit a wall with it.
I realize the wording can be confusing, but "DirectX 11.1 feature set" is a set of hardware features required to be certified as DirectX 11.1 compatible, as opposed to the actual API itself.
The API is just software by Microsoft, but you need certain physical pieces of hardware to be compatible with the software.
Of course it's true. You're confusing "Direct X 11.1+ feature set" with the DirectX API itself.
justsomeguy
Member
Haha me too mate. Still going strong.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
The guy doing the Unity presentation, ughhhh.
justsomeguy
Member
Yeah the v vast vast vast majority. Backwards compatibility is a huge area of investment
Core 2 Extreme QX9650 - Yorkfield 3.0GHz Quad core with 12MB cache here from...oh god, 2007. :-O
Thank you for the clarification - that makes sense. With this in mind, I've reworded my first question below:
This all depends on how difficult it is to port between the PS4 feature set and DX12, let alone the existing DX11 feature set for PCs (which we are already seeing). I'm hoping the answer is that "it's a piece of cake" so that multiplatform developers can take advantage of each platform's strengths.
Prophet Steve
Member
Stomps? Overall? Only with the games that make good use of hyperthreading, which are not that much. I don't know if DX12 is going to help with this, haven't read/seen it all yet.
Potentially, yes. This situation will still happen in a world where DirectX 12 exists. This is because DirectX 12 and DirectX 11.3 will co-exist. 12 trading greater complexity for closer access to hardware and theoretically more performance and 11.3 trading performance/features for usability. I would expect 11.3 to be the more commonly used API between 11.3 and 12.
Developers will choose the tools that best suit their project requirements and resources. DX12 just gives them more choice than they've previously had on PC, but it wont be suitable for all projects or developers.
Look at it this way.
From Windows 7 to Windows 8 to Windows 8.1, there were negligible compatibility problems. Pretty much everything works without question, outside of a few outliers. And of those outliers, most have been fixed over time.
For Windows 10, Microsoft is putting far more effort into compatibility than they have for any past Windows release, ever.
The free upgrade to Windows 10 isn't just something that Microsoft is offering to people to take it or leave it. It's something that Microsoft wants every person to do, and if people are blocked from doing it for whatever compatibility reasons, they're going out of their way to address those compatibility problems and enable them to upgrade.
The entire reason for the free upgrade is to get everyone on the same platform, to entice developers to develop for that platform. If there are major compatibility issues preventing those upgrades from happening, it's not just a technical problem to solve, it's a clear business problem to solve too.
I think what people might be looking for here is, PS4's GPU has Shader Model 5.1 feature set. Sony's API itself has nothing to do with DirectX.
SM5.1 I believe is the feature set that goes with DX11.1 on the Windows / PC / DirectX side.
The Wii U GPU has the Shader Model 4.1 feature set, even though it does not use DX10.1 at all.
Sony and Nintendo consoles use custom derivatives of OpenGL for their APIs.
Someone else can explain this far better than I can though.
Objectively Bad Opinion
Member
Prevents shaders from writing over another's work by setting them to do work in order (as opposed to whenever all at once, which is how they do typically)
Useful for things like transparency.
Chobel
Member
I'm hoping the jump to Windows 10 from Windows 8.1 is nothing more than a service pack upgrade.
I'd hate to fresh install all the programs I have right now being a graphic designer and all (not to mention all the old games I have on my system too. Win8.1 has been surprisingly old PC game friendly, even the Windows 95 ones!).
I'd hate to fresh install all the programs I have right now being a graphic designer and all (not to mention all the old games I have on my system too. Win8.1 has been surprisingly old PC game friendly, even the Windows 95 ones!).
gamechanger87
Member
Its how they did the W10 tech preview so I would expect it to be the same.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Yes, you can do an in-place upgrade and keep everything. Full upgrade also works for Windows 7. I'm fairly certain (not 100% confident) that Vista or earlier will require a clean install.
gamechanger87
Member
I guess we will hear more about its impact on the XO at a later date:
https://twitter.com/DirectX12/status/573561737867231232
https://twitter.com/DirectX12/status/573561737867231232
Not only can you (of course) do an in-place upgrade from Windows 8.1 to 10, you can even do so if you have Windows 7.
crazepharmacist
Member
Same here! Got it running at 4ghz. Such incredible value and I don't think I'll be upgrading it any time soon, even when games start utilizing 8 cores as I'll just flip hyper-threading on.
I don't mind having to delete my backup or system restores as they can be incredibly HDD space intensive. I also hope that doing the in-palce upgrade does not break compatibility with software that's already installed.
Clean installs are almost like a week on investing to make sure that everything you previously had installed is up, working and optimized. I just couldn't afford that kind of time commitment nowdays.
Wow, even Windows 7 computers too?
I might upgrade my old laptop in that case and get more life out of it as a stream service device or something. Squeezing every last ounce of old tech has always been my kinda thing.
Does Microsoft not bother to get their Twitter accounts verified?