-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
All PS4 Pro enhanced games (native support and boosted)
- Thread starter Liabe Brave
- Start date
xenorevlis
Member
It's not in the OP posts but I'm fairly certain that the Lite mode vs regular PS4 has more foliage and other minor improvements as well (particle counts and such). Definitely has better anisotropic filtering and stays at 1080p rather than dynamic res. I think the extra stuff carries over to the high resolution mode too, which has some frame pacing issues but they never really bothered me much so far (and I'm playing on 1080p HDTV).
Liabe Brave
Member
No need to upload to Mega, I can count easily enough from the JPEG. Yes there's a lot of compression going on--about 10x--but JPEG degradation is often greatly overestimated. And given how impossible it is to find a good host for PNGs, JPEGs are just fine to start. If I find a particular shot untenable as is and need a PNG version, I'll let you know.
That said, I could verify that 1800c is the resolution, as DF said. I'll eventually end up changing the text on the list, though; checkerboard artifacts are far, far less prevalent at high res, but they're not entirely "eliminated" as I said.
Thanks for posting!
Do you have any way to capture shots on both standard and Pro? Failing that, you could find some standard shots online, then take Pro shots of the same place. It's definitely the case that this comparison didn't have much data to go on (a lot of discussion was centered around Pro High versus Pro Lite, and on performance rather than graphics). If you can help, it'd be much appreciated!
Karspankey
Banned
So how does NBA 2k17 look on a 1080p screen? My brother picked it up when it was on sale and I thought I'd give it a shot, with it being native 4k and all. The thing is, the past NBA games were already pretty sharp so IDK how much there'd be to gain.
I'll end up playing it anyways, with it being free and all, just won't finish the download for a long while and thought I'd ask
I'll end up playing it anyways, with it being free and all, just won't finish the download for a long while and thought I'd ask
PsihoPerihelion
Member
Allow me to ask you something. Is checkerboard really effective? I've been playing on a 1080p screen and I do notice the superior AA due to the higher resolution, but I'd love to know if CBR is effective enough that a 4K checkerboard game would look close to a real 4K image. If I upgrade to a 4K screen, does CBR gets the job done at that resolution or do you notice it being sub-4K or do you notice weird artifacts around? I'm asking this because uou were able to pixel count WD2 resolution, which leads me to believe that checkerboard does look similar to a real 4K buffer.
xenorevlis
Member
I do, actually. There are several online video comparisons too in which you can see this as well. Any area(s) you might want to see? Maybe I can record portions of the intro in regular PS4 and PS4 Pro lite?
Rockeeo
Member
Jsquared77
Member
Are you 100% certain of this. I read a CNET article a while back basically stating it didn't really matter. And I just used the old mono price HMDI cable that was already in place and I am getting 2160p.
Liabe Brave
Member
Anywhere that's convenient for you is fine. Thanks so much!
My personal feeling is that it's very good indeed. For example, here's two crops from chandoog's 4K Watch_Dogs 2 shot--these are at native res.
That's sharp, clean, and very similar to a true 4K presentation. That said, it is possible to tell checkerboard from native, and the reason is artifacts. Here's a closeup (200%) of the player character, where stippling can be seen around his edges.
And due to the way checkerboard works, things that move rapidly and complexly will have worse artifacts. So this flag flapping in the wind is pretty ugly at 200% zoom.
But the thing is, that's a worst-case scenario for an object. And also, the last two shots did require me to zoom in to make the artifacts very obvious. At TV viewing distances, many of these problems will be much less obvious. I can't really post a true 4K shot, both because hosting them is hard and because you likely aren't viewing this on a 4K screen. But here's a 1080p crop of the 4K shot. This is not shrunk down or supersampled, I've just cut off the edges. So this is the actual IQ you get from Watch_Dogs 2's checkerboard rendering.
I personally think the character artifacts have faded toward irrelevance at this scale and in context, and even the flag would probably look more like dithered blur when in motion rather than errors. And all of this is at 1800c, so 2160c games will be even better.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Holy shit are these really from the Yakuza 6 demo ? They're SO BLURRY .. These look like someone took Yakuza 5 and blew up the resolution to 4K without applying any kind of smoothing etc to it.
Rockeeo
Member
The screenshots are from the full retail game.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
That's even worse lol .. Hoped it would be better by the release. Didn't realize game was already out in Japan.
Are these from a Pro or OG ? I feel like because they're being posted in this topic, they're from the Pro version which is even more disappointing. Wonder how blurry the OG version looks blown up to a 4K TV.
Liabe Brave
Member
It does require a special certification level of HDMI cable to carry 4K. However, many cables were already being manufactured to those tolerances even before the 4K standard. So lots of them will work...but you could be unlucky and get one that doesn't.
They're Pro for sure, the standard PS4 only renders at 900p.
Thanks so much for posting these! We can now conclude that there's only one Pro mode, and it's only 1080p. That's better than the 900p of the standard PS4 (and thanks for confirming there's also improved framerate). But it's definitely pretty minimal...especially considering that there's no AA at all at 1080p, and even the UI is upscaled rather than native 4K. (!)
Rockeeo
Member
They are from the Pro. I saved them as JPEGs. But, they seem to represent what the game actually looks like.
I included the last screenshot to highlight the jaggies on the in-game phone.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yeah, looks like it's just spitting out a 1080p image, no anti aliasing at all. Shame.
PsihoPerihelion
Member
My personal feeling is that it's very good indeed. For example, here's two crops from chandoog's 4K Watch_Dogs 2 shot--these are at native res.
That's sharp, clean, and very similar to a true 4K presentation. That said, it is possible to tell checkerboard from native, and the reason is artifacts. Here's a closeup (200%) of the player character, where stippling can be seen around his edges.
And due to the way checkerboard works, things that move rapidly and complexly will have worse artifacts. So this flag flapping in the wind is pretty ugly at 200% zoom.
But the thing is, that's a worst-case scenario for an object. And also, the last two shots did require me to zoom in to make the artifacts very obvious. At TV viewing distances, many of these problems will be much less obvious. I can't really post a true 4K shot, both because hosting them is hard and because you likely aren't viewing this on a 4K screen. But here's a 1080p crop of the 4K shot. This is not shrunk down or supersampled, I've just cut off the edges. So this is the actual IQ you get from Watch_Dogs 2's checkerboard rendering.
I personally think the character artifacts have faded toward irrelevance at this scale and in context, and even the flag would probably look more like dithered blur when in motion rather than errors. And all of this is at 1800c, so 2160c games will be even better.
You are the greatest! Now I see that it does work as intended and the future is bright for this technique to achieve great things. I also forgot WD2 was 1800c instead of 4K, and does indeed look very, very good. The artifacts you describe are because of the CBR? Are there any chances of it being the antialiasing they are using? I read the game uses HRAA and I remember similar artifacts when I played Far Cry 4, which also uses this type of AA.
Thank you very much!
The Pro Lite mode is graphically identical to the standard PS4 mode, no better vegetation or texture filtering. It runs in full 1080p though, instead of the dynamic 900p-1080p of the standard PS4 version. It also has even less framepacing issues.
The Pro HQ mode has graphical improvements like better texture filtering, more detailed vegetation, cleaner shadows etc. and it runs in 1800p checkerboarding. It suffers the most out of all versions from framepacing issues though.
I'm in my second playthrough and both I played in the Pro HQ mode. Framepacing issues usually don't bother me much.
This is honestly the worst looking 4k checkerboarding I have seen. There is still aliasing galore everywhere.
Liabe Brave
Member
Well for one, this is not 4K CBR, it's 1800c. Second, it's simply factually untrue that there's aliasing "everywhere"--look at the crops of foliage and buildings that I posted. It's your free opinion how to assess the areas where artifacts do appear, but let's not engage in hyperbole.
And for the final effect, it might be meaningful to think about viewing conditions. You're likely looking at this on a ~20" screen from less than 20" away, as opposed to a ~50" screen more then six feet away. In the comfy couch scenario the individual pixels will be smaller and less resolvable.
FrozenCell
Member
ARK's 680p25 must be a sight
You really should take a look at other 1800p or even 1400p games, like Uncharted 4, on Pro and compare their image quality to your WD2 screenshot. I stick with my opinion that this screen shows some of the worst IQ that I have so far seen of a 1800p resolution game.
Here as a comparison the much maligned IQ of Final Fantasy XV on Pro. It too runs in 1800p and isn't the prettiest example around. But still it's IQ looks considerably superior.
I've combed through my FFXV pics to find similar sized pics of protagonist and background NPCs. These are not resized but original size, just cropped:
I am very interested in this as well, haven't had a chance to try out any of my PS2onPS4 games yet (I always forget).
Stealthcobra
Member
It could be just me but to me the ps2 games look better
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I think Helldivers gets a nice boost to FX in general. Laser sights seem more luminescent and the dusty, foggy, swampy effects on homeworld planets seemed way more heavy handed.
Here's these too:
Here's these too:
Liabe Brave
Member
They'll downsample automatically. Only modes marked with a red X are unavailable on a 1080p screen.
If I don't have a HDR display, idk if it's a 4K TV only thing, will I still get the enhancements at 1080p? Like better framerate, IQ, etc.
All of this is confusing so I'm just trying to make sure I get it right. Since some enhancements say HDR 1080 and others say just 1080.
Much easier to understand on pc because you are in control of the settings.
All of this is confusing so I'm just trying to make sure I get it right. Since some enhancements say HDR 1080 and others say just 1080.
Much easier to understand on pc because you are in control of the settings.
Did DriveClub get pro support?
Been playing it after a about a yr (base ps4) and I was surprised to see adaptive v-sync (and frame drops) on some tracks (definitely the first city track in Scotland).
curious as performance was rock solid before and wondering if it's better on pro?
Been playing it after a about a yr (base ps4) and I was surprised to see adaptive v-sync (and frame drops) on some tracks (definitely the first city track in Scotland).
curious as performance was rock solid before and wondering if it's better on pro?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Nope, absolutely no upgrades for DC so far. The VR version got Pro upgrades but not the base game.
Liabe Brave
Member
Uncharted 4 does not use CBR.
Final Fantasy XV has very aggressive blur on everything. This does indeed eliminate a lot of aliasing, and many might prefer the way it looks, but it's not really trying to do the same thing as Watch_Dogs 2. It's shooting for a much softer, more filmic aesthetic. I do agree that they hit that target well, smoothing out a lot of the jaggies that the starker Ubisoft game has.
But your selections do seem generally even softer than usual. This could be due to multiple JPEG compressions, or just happenstance. But CBR artifacts still do occur in the game. Here's some from a native-res Gamersyde shot (I've outlined the artifacts, since they're not blown up like in my WD2 examples).
Yes, HDR is independent of the rest. You'll note that if Pro modes are HDR, so are the standard modes. This is because both models of PS4 will output that, though only the Pro can do higher resolutions, framerate, and details. But keep in mind that only 4K displays will actually show HDR.
The Pro as a whole is--like all consoles--designed to be streamlined in a way PC isn't. You can set everything to Automatic, and it should give you the best available graphics. Games may individually offer tradeoff-type choices when running, but you shouldn't have to switch anything on the console itself.
I know, right? Nearly 20 times better than Ocarina of Time.
Thanks for the clarifications.
Christ is that on Pro patch? I thought it only dipped to that on XB1?
Codiox
Member
I think this is on base ps4.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Something to add to the OP w/ the demo as a reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvs7I2QUFh8
Nier Automata:
- Pro runs at full 1080p, OG at 900p.
- Pro has Anti Aliasing and better texture filtering, OG has no AA and lower filtering.
- Pro has per-action motion blur. OG does not.
- Pro has nearly rock-solid 60 FPS during game play, OG is prone to more minor dips.
- Cutscenes are 900p/30fps on both (pre recorded video files).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvs7I2QUFh8
Nier Automata:
- Pro runs at full 1080p, OG at 900p.
- Pro has Anti Aliasing and better texture filtering, OG has no AA and lower filtering.
- Pro has per-action motion blur. OG does not.
- Pro has nearly rock-solid 60 FPS during game play, OG is prone to more minor dips.
- Cutscenes are 900p/30fps on both (pre recorded video files).
Negotiator
Member
That makes zero sense. Why 900p?
Could be for demo purposes to keep the file size small. When they go to the disc release they will hopefully be full res. If not, awful.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It is the same, 2160, to put in the simplest terms, what checker boarding does is you render half (or more) of the pixels and the remaining are rendered or reconstructed by the algorithm.
This is the best explanation I've come across so far:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/ps4-pro-checkerboard-rendering.59626/
Kamina
Golden Boy
So the algorithm is reconstructing pixels based on thier neighboring rendered pixels?
Autofokus
Member
Maybe it was already compatible? We did comparison screenshots and at least visually nothing changed. I've read that the performance of the game isn't good, including occasional tearing. I played ~10h exclusively on the Pro and haven't seen any tearing yet, performance seems stable too (mission loading times/save game reloads are a pain though). Maybe they just unlocked the hardware and nothing more.
Liabe Brave
Member
Thanks for this, but I'm not going to add Nier until it's actually released. Demos are not always representative of the final product...and this particular game definitely has some low-hanging fruit that could be changed. In addition to the low-res video cutscenes, the AA on the Pro version indicates rather a lot of rendering headroom. I don't want to say it'd be trivial, but 2160geo rendering at least doesn't seem like a big task.
No. It is maintaining several separate buffers to identify and track the motion of objects in previous frames. It then projects those motions to pixels in the current frame, and renders accordingly. (A caveat: each projection has a confidence level, and if it goes too low--the motion is too unpredictable--then and only then will neighboring pixel values be used to improve the guess.)
It's a complex process, so it's not easy to grasp. Maybe I should create a fuller explanation for the thread....
Yeah, it could technically be the case that they explicitly limited the game to standard PS4 levels. But it doesn't seem super likely; no other game has literally zero improvement. Also given the fact that XCOM 2 released more than a month prior to Pro, and no patch has ever said "Pro support added", leaves some hope that they're just behind schedule.
Autofokus
Member
I was just speculating because the game is listed as a Pro title on the store.
Self_Destructive
Member
I'm not the biggest PS4 Pro fan in the world, but I gotta say, what a great thread. Very helpful, and that chart is really easy to read. Good work Liabe Brave!
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Hmmm? As far as I know, Inside doesn't have a PS4 Pro mode.
Is one coming? I just purchased it this weekend but haven't started it up yet.
Negotiator
Member
Why would Inside need a Pro patch? I don't expect indies to get patched, unless they have spectacular graphics to begin with (like Resogun for example).
Every game that doesn't use hand-drawn sprites can benefit from a resolution increase.
That being said, I don't expect a patch for Inside or most other indie games.
Honestly, I wouldn't "expect" any game already released to get a Pro patch. If they get one, that's great (big kudos to Housemarque for Resogun's patch), but we shouldn't be so hostile to devs that choose not to update a game that's been out for a while. It's become obvious that many older titles that "need" or could greatly benefit from a Pro patch aren't getting them. Look forward, not back.
DangerMouse
Member
Agreed. Big bonus points to the devs that are going back and doing it, and there are some I'm disappointed don't seem to be getting one, but I also especially bought it for future games.